the marks of a slave

Netzach said:

It's so not small. There's no way I could deal with that, isn't that funny? I literally itched at what you said itw. It's weird.

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Keroin said:

It's not small, ITW. I live with a human steamroller, I know how challenging that can be.

I still fight the urge to run around behind him and apologize to people for his behaviour at times. I've mostly let it go. Mostly.

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~Haze~ said:

I'm seeing a trend developing and I don't want to generalize by saying "pfft... women" but it is a quality that's pretty common in women. At least women I've been involved with and now I see that pattern here, too.

It would drive me crazy. Nothing would infuriate me more than her walking behind me trying to 'explain' or smooth over whoever or whatever I just bulldozed.

Maddening. :chuckle:

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~Haze~ said:

I'm seeing a trend developing and I don't want to generalize by saying "pfft... women" but it is a quality that's pretty common in women. At least women I've been involved with and now I see that pattern here, too.

It would drive me crazy. Nothing would infuriate me more than her walking behind me trying to 'explain' or smooth over whoever or whatever I just bulldozed.

Maddening. :chuckle:

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Keroin said:

LOL. I think the last time I went “New York” was about five years ago dealing with some idiot at the credit bureau who was treating me like trailer trash and refusing to listen to what I had to say, (they’d sent me to collection because someone at my bank had failed to cancel my business Visa as I’d requested when I left the country– luckily I had written evidence). But it takes a lot to push me that far.

The duality of our natures seems to work in a weird yin-yang sort of way, though, when dealing with outsiders. I’m the lovable diplomat who gets us upgrades and free stuff; he’s the bad cop that deals with the morons and ball breakers. When it works, it’s very win-win. When it doesn’t…eek.

I’m guessing you and M have your own yin-yang?

I think the biggest battle we had was when I had to lay down the law about my writing, plant my flag and post the “Keep Out” sign. He fought very hard to get in but I won.

But I know exactly where ITW is coming from, as far as worrying what strangers think. I have to remind myself that I thought he was an arrogant bastard when I first met him and that didn’t stop me from becoming his friend, (and then more).

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Keroin said:

No, I get it but it works both ways, too. I don't want my partner storming in and throwing a mantrum every time I'm trying to negotiate through a difficult situation or come up against someone who is less than accommodating. I have my own style too. I'm sure there are lots of women out there who get just as peeved at their male counterparts who try to bulldoze for them.

Over our 11 1/2 years together, I have become more outspoken and firm, Lance has pulled back on his "steamrollerishness" and I think we've both learned a ton from each other.

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~Haze~ said:

I know what you're saying and don't want to give you the impression that I'm stomping through my days screaming and scaring random people. Far from it.

But I choose my words, choose my battles, and choose my reactions carefully and strategically. If I'm using any particular tone, chances are that it's deliberate - playful, serious, stressed, confrontational, aggressive. Whatever.

The problem is - strategically applied stress loses its effect when someone's holding up the rear easing that stress.

And many of the women in my life are like ITW and they don't like confrontation. Personally, I don't mind it. But I can appreciate the fact that most people are uncomfortable in situations where stress is elevated and I'm generally as sensitive to that as possible.

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Keroin said:

Well, I think we're talking about very different personality types here, then. I know that L does not always choose his words and actions carefully and believe me, he would be the first to concur with this. He would also tell you that his impatience and "do it my way" attitude have brought him, (and me), some seriously negative consequences.

I by no means squelch him and when I think he's right I back him 100% but my diplomacy has also saved the day on numerous occasions. It's called balance, it's something we've worked at and continue to work at.

We both love to learn and adapt and it makes us better people.

ETA: I also want to make it clear that just because I have the urge to follow around behind him and apologize, I don't actually do it.

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intothewoods said:

Thank you for posting that, K. I guess it's all kind of funny considering he's recently stepped up the D/s control and I've really liked it. I'm just a little paranoid about people suspecting someone. Some people know that I'm kinky who I wish didn't know (for various reasons), and I just grimace at the idea of people thinking they have me figured out. But anyway.

He's actually mostly reserved and shy when you first meet him. Just in case we all go out to coffee someday! No one be surprised when Mr. M is silent. Anyway, like you said, when the dynamic works it's just so good, but occasionally there are these things that make me stand up straight and push way back. What can I say? I'm complicated!

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~Haze~ said:

Ha. Well, either way... he's a lucky man.

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Keroin said:

he'll be the one rallying everyone to go river rafting

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YourCaptor said:

I’ve been reading this and I think what’s being descried is the typical, at least for me, “you are threatening one of minel” reflex.

In myself, It tends to be described as the watchdog effect. Mostly I let the girls do whatever they want, and if it’s a situation I’m not 100% comfortable in I tend to puff up a little, broaden the shoulders, maneuver into a strategic position, and intimidate. That’s good an all right.

Well it flows over into other situation too. Throughout my average day, 3 or 4 people will apologize to me, because I unintentionally must have intimidated them. Sometimes that even happens when I’ve been talking to them for a while. I’ve said, “I’m sorry if I’ve made you feel uncomfortable, that’s not my intention”, so many times that just mouthing it makes me sick.

It’s not the best feeling either, when you suddenly realize that this person is afraid of you.

Apparently I have also perfected the art of explain things in the simplest, most logical terms possible, while also saying “you are so fucking stupid get out of my sight.”


I wanna go right now!

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intothewoods said:

I struggle sometimes with my powerlessness over the way my husband speaks, to me and to others. Nothing major. He is just very strong-willed and dominant, which is mostly very attractive and compelling. Sometimes I feel somewhat awkward with others though, like I wonder what people are thinking. Again, nothing major - I just get a little nervous with people who don't know him. I know, who cares what other people think, blah blah, but I don't really want to give the impression that we're in a power exchange relationship. Anyway, and then between the two of us, sometimes when he hits a hot button topic, I sometimes bristle in response. We have talked about this a lot, and again, I generally am attracted to these aspects of his personality (duh), but I just need to let it go.

Hope that made sense.

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Netzach said:

D/s, to me, is a lot like love itself. It's one of these things that we impose onto ourselves that gives us a feeling of changing outcomes in life, but there are plenty of outcomes in life that simply do not give a shit about how we have chosen to relate to each other.

Almost no one has control over the sexuality of another person, no matter how much you may spin it - it's like saying someone has achieved total mind control. Even as people leave insular religious movements, the question of authoritarian mind control still hasn't been completely sorted out - why some people are more controlled than others, how anyone would ever leave if the control was total, etc.

D/s control is mainly a shorthand for a kind of sexual (don't have a cow, I mean sexuality/emotional) enmeshment, a baseline compatibility between needing to feel controlled and needing to feel in control. But the idea that this control takes away problems, conflicts, and challenges is a seductive one to a lot of people, and in my experience and observation, it usually doesn't.

I'm not worried about younger women, but I am worried about the impact of the fact that the man I married may not want to remain one at all for the rest of his life, and is increasingly unhappy about the situation, increasingly androgynyzing (?) his appearance whenever and wherever context allows and pondering bodily alterations. I'm supportive, I actually want to buy him boobs.

I have no problems with this theoretically or even sexually, but there are baseline emotional responses still - "I love you, you're terrific, don't change a thing. What?" As well as the fact that I will be losing the privileged position that perceived male protection gives me (even with a pretty metro this is considerable) , and that I, in fact, may be the layer of protection between him, me, and a hostile world. Winding up a butch lesbian after all, or walking around with a man whose sexuality is clearly delineated queer - again, nothing I mind, I already move through the world that way, but it's another level of it when it's less option and more self-protection.

Not all the pants-wearin' swagger on earth is going to change this on my part. His mind has been like this since he was a child, it's not going to fall in line with whatever I want for status quo.

The main lesson in my 30's, since my late 20's actually is to accept imperfection and impermanence as romantic realities. No matter who you're considering. When I'm talking about impermanence I don't mean run for the hills, I mean acceptance of impermanence as a life condition permeating everything, even the things you really like.

Oddly enough, M leaving me for a man or for a woman or for whatever, isn't part of the neuroses package this time around. I think I "get" him in a way that he's unlikely to find in anyone else. But mysterious long-held secrets have a way of driving people apart, and I can't coast on that assumption either, I have to be very diligent to stay in touch and on top of my partner's issues and how they intersect and become a better listener.

Which I really have come a long way on, thinking about it.

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Keroin said:

I live with it because I have my own big bundles of weirdness that he accepts. Sometimes we accept better than other times. It's a constant, double tight rope act but I'd have it no other way.

Not many people could live with either of us, lol.

Still challenging, though.

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intothewoods said:

Actually, I've been dying to get this story of my chest. We were in the doctor's office and they were giving me my options. Mr. Man says, ok, we'll do x. I say, yeahhh, we will, and then when they left, I laugh and say, ok, honey, seriously, could you turn down the Dom gene for a sec? This isn't the 1950s, so I don't believe my husband can just make medical decisions for me, unless I'm unconscious or something. And we laughed about it.

Now, look, he and I were actually on the same page, and he was out of his mind upset and just wanted to have some sense of control (helllo powerlessness in our lives!), but I am guessing my female OB with the successful practice was thinking, wtf?

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intothewoods said:

Thank you for posting that, K. I guess it's all kind of funny considering he's recently stepped up the D/s control and I've really liked it. I'm just a little paranoid about people suspecting someone. Some people know that I'm kinky who I wish didn't know (for various reasons), and I just grimace at the idea of people thinking they have me figured out. But anyway.

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intothewoods said:

He's actually mostly reserved and shy when you first meet him. Just in case we all go out to coffee someday! No one be surprised when Mr. M is silent. Anyway, like you said, when the dynamic works it's just so good, but occasionally there are these things that make me stand up straight and push way back. What can I say? I'm complicated!

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eastern sun said:

How many people choose a partner who reflects them?

I've seen couples where it looks like they're each looking in the mirror when they look at each other. I've always wondered what that was like.

How many people choose a partner who complements them?

Most couples described here (and maybe that's because we are all drawn to a D/s forum) seem to balance each other. In my opinion, that's a more common situation, but that just might be because it's what I'm familiar with myself.

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eastern sun said:

How many people choose a partner who reflects them?

I've seen couples where it looks like they're each looking in the mirror when they look at each other. I've always wondered what that was like.

How many people choose a partner who complements them?

Most couples described here (and maybe that's because we are all drawn to a D/s forum) seem to balance each other. In my opinion, that's a more common situation, but that just might be because it's what I'm familiar with myself.

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eastern sun said:

I love this story. (Though I have to tell you, there are times I don't want to include him in the information gathering part of any process because I want an opportunity to think it through on my own.)

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This can change over time too as you both learn how to communicate the D/s dynamics in language that fits within your social contexts. A lot of people have power-based relationships that aren't explicitly D/s, and there's a lot of room for giving your husband authority without it seeming outrageous.



I just think you're human.

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eastern sun said:

How many people choose a partner who reflects them?

I've seen couples where it looks like they're each looking in the mirror when they look at each other. I've always wondered what that was like.

How many people choose a partner who complements them?

Most couples described here (and maybe that's because we are all drawn to a D/s forum) seem to balance each other. In my opinion, that's a more common situation, but that just might be because it's what I'm familiar with myself.

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Sweetdaisymae said:

It makes me constantly amused that in "normal" life Sir is deferred to and asked to make decisions for other people, the seem to see the Dom in him on a subliminal level and react as natural submissives, when I pointed it out to him he was quite amazed at the responses he has from people he interacts with on a day to day basis, even to the point someone was asking him to decide what type of holiday (vacation) accommodation they and their wife would like, so Sir made their plans for them.
It is interesting how people naturally fall into these catagories and will defer to a natural Dom without realising it!

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ownedsubgal said:

over the years i've noticed the same thing with my Master, and it really is fascinating. other people in his life, from coworkers to family to acquaintances, tend to naturally defer to him and look to him for guidance, to the extent that it mentally and emotionally wears on him quite a bit. for instance he has an older brother, a perfectly decent and responsible family man is a career paramedic and volunteer firefighter. yet for some reason, their parents only look to my Master to solve any problem or dilemma they may be facing. they will only turn to their older son at my Master's explicit command, lol.

some people don't recognize that such dominant personalities exist, but i know because i live with one everyday. it's a heavy burden for my Master to bear, and i fret over his health because of it.

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