Looking for feedback?

Hi everybody,

I'm not sure if this is the place to post it, but since this is a feedback forum, I guess I can ask for feedback here as well as give it?

Basically, I've submitted several stories to LitErotica, all of which get approved in the standard 3-day span. Most of them were for fun, but my latest was one I actually put some work into. I'm still new to writing erotica, so I'd like feedback on it. What worked, what didn't? What is it missing? What could help you get more out of it? Be critical, I'm a writer, and I've been to several workshops. If you just sugar coat it, you're not helping me.

Based on a true story: My First Femdom Experience http://www.literotica.com/s/my-first-femdom-experience

OK. I am being critical for criticism's sake. There are many things you do right, such as starting at the point where the story needs to start, but this critique isn't about that. With the most important problems at the top:

+ you need an editor to dominate you, hehe No really, you need someone to get you on the right path.

+ [copy&paste from another story I commented on]
Your writing is too concise. Your writing is only about advancing scenes and dialogue. I’m ok with that but not everyone agrees. Please don't be afraid to indulge in flowery prose. Don't mistake flowery prose with "wordage". Short sentences are ok. Long sentences are often unnecessary and confusing. This is only subjective opinion. Oops! I have used too many short sentences. Do you see that using too many short sentences is boring? I feel that you are ready for me to expand my writing into lyrical prose. You are raring for me to use sentences of length which will engage you with arcane concepts and subtle details; That I should write a sentence about a sweeping statement which expands your understanding of the everyday difficulties of building a compelling story. And when that sentence is finished, you will relax and understand: vary your sentence lengths.

+ [follow on from above] Despite your sparse writing style there is still a lot of words you could delete without changing the meaning of each sentence. This is especially the case with adverbs (see below).

+ Adverb abuse. I am now suspending your right to use adverbs for six months. Instead of using an adverb you must expand it into actions. After you have served your suspension you must write back to convince me you have earned to the right to use adverbs safely. I will allow you to use adverbs only if you cannot find an adequate replacement after looking in your thesaurus.

For example in your open paragraph you have: "I just wanted things to go smoothly". You could change that to: "I skipped my usual curry lunch so that nothing, not even a toilet break, would disrupt my night of kink." [yeah, I am no wordsmith ]

It is worth understanding why you are committing each sin so you can understand how to reform. So, why are you abusing adverbs? I think you have a deliberate agenda to rush through the action and everything suffers as a result. There are other reasons people abuse adverbs which are:
- being too lazy to give us a rich descriptions (hmmm, I don't think that is you)
-they are afraid of using flowery descriptions (hmmm, no)
- "watering down"/qualifying every descriptions (no)
- telling not showing (also yes. see below)

+ Telling not showing. Related to your problem of abusing adverbs because this is what adverbs do: tell not show.

+ Use "said". "Said" is the one of the few invisible words in the English language: people do not pay attention to the word "said". You should be using "Said" to help readers identify who is speaking. That doesn't mean you can overuse "said", use "said" in combination with 'dialogue with no speech modifier' (as you too often do) and also 'dialogue with a non-speech modifier' (limited use only)

"Veronica, you need to use the word 'said' in your writing," said John.
"But why John? It seems so useless," she huffed with indignation.
"For clarity's sake my dear, clarity is paramount."

+ Get rid of passive voice sentences.

+ I don't read bondage but even I know a proper Mistress never fucks her clients. You are going through the motions of a BDSM story and missing the point of BDSM. It is about control, submission and all that. You audience is always smart enough to recognise these problems in a story, unfortunately they don't know how to tell you.

Thanks for the feedback. Yeah, I need some guidance on my erotica writing. I'm an author of fiction, and I'm hoping my stories are better than my erotica, or I'm in real trouble. I'll need to look into my adverb use to better describe things as to not make it too concise. But yes, I was literally fucked with a strapon. Is that not usual?

litmlove said:

+ I don't read bondage but even I know a proper Mistress never fucks her clients. You are going through the motions of a BDSM story and missing the point of BDSM. It is about control, submission and all that. You audience is always smart enough to recognise these problems in a story, unfortunately they don't know how to tell you.

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Different people do BDSM in different ways. If pegging a guy with a strap-on isn't what "a proper Mistress" would do, then there are quite a few improper Mistresses out there.

Some pros do represent BDSM as a completely non-sexual service, but that line seems to be more common in places where taking money for sexual services is illegal.

Agree with Bamb. BDSM is simply bondage and/or sadomasochism. There are clubs that have their own rules for it, but they don't control that any use of either bondage or sadomasochism is all you need to be into BDSM--or to have it in your story.

Who says mistresses won't peg? All depends on the mistress and the sub (client if this is a pro session). Pegging is one of the more humiliating tactics you can use and....in the case of wealthy 'powerful' white men pegging by a black domme is very in vogue.

The thing I say about BDSM is its a lifestyle and as such is as varied as the people practicing it. With the exception of the three rules "safe sane and consensual" with number three being most important(because that defines what safe and sane is to each person) there is not a "they would never or they always would"

Bramblethorn said:

Some pros do represent BDSM as a completely non-sexual service, but that line seems to be more common in places where taking money for sexual services is illegal.

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Not necessarily sometimes its non sexual because the thrill for the sub is simply having no power whatsoever, the humiliation/lack of control is enough they do not need a sexual release.

Some do it as a lifestyle, yes, but it doesn't have to be that. Bondage and sadomasochism are ACTS, not lifestyles. They can be rendered in a story as the acts they are. Those who do it don't even have to do it well, or right. You tie someone's wrists together during sex, you've got bondage. You use a whip on your sex partner, you've got SM. You don't have to be into a lifestyle to do this.

sr71plt said:

Some do it as a lifestyle, yes, but it doesn't have to be that. Bondage and sadomasochism are ACTS, not lifestyles. They can be rendered in a story as the acts they are. Those who do it don't even have to do it well, or right. You tie someone's wrists together during sex, you've got bondage. You use a whip on your sex partner, you've got SM. You don't have to be into a lifestyle to do this.

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My point is simply there is not much of a is or isn't....it all depends on the people.

Real BDSM is far more than physical acts, its mostly in the mind, that is where the real games are played, but that's not easily captured, so many stories default to anyone being tied up is instantly "in the know" of that lifestyle/hobby/ genre whatever you would like to say.

No, real BDSM is simply an sex act that is either bondage or sadomasochism. There are more organized forms of it, but those into that don't have the right to give the rules or control what is a BDSM act or how one can be depicted in a story. And neither do you.

Ok. There is more to BDSM than I said. Sex can happen but it is not important.

As far as criticism of Sexydaemon's story goes, I still think SexyDaemon missed the point of BDSM: he did not develop the the key attraction to his particular BDSM fetish. There was very little emotive response shown to what was happening, SexyDaemon knows it happened, but the reader misses it.

What is the kink all about? Is it about humiliation or losing control or something else? Now show it, not by presenting actions but by acknowledgement and reaction to it.

sr71plt said:

No, real BDSM is simply an sex act that is either bondage or sadomasochism. There are more organized forms of it, but those into that don't have the right to give the rules or control what is a BDSM act or how one can be depicted in a story. And neither do you.

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No. There is far more nuance to BDSM than that

Q1; Is it longterm or session based?

Q2:What are type of action is it?(categories can combine).
--
Bondage - physical restraint (handcuffs: fluffy/leather/"police")
Discipline - mental restraints
--
Sadism - pain giving
Masochism - receiving pain
--
Domination - self explanatory
Submission - should be always called by its full name of "sexual submission"
--

Q3: and what emotion are you are trying to elicit: humiliation, control, reward, and et cetera.



FYI -I am basing a lot of my knowledge from a Dom who told me about his girlfriend who is a longterm submissive (humiliation). She wanted to be used at anytime (eg. wake up anal or be used in public) and "she couldn't stand making love".

One final word. Read "A Good Student" by dr_mabeuse, it is a masterful story. Sorry I can't find a more relevant example, you could flip the genders, and/or the POV and you would have something you should aspire to write. I swear I almost never read BDSM.

litmlove said:

No. There is far more nuance to BDSM than that

Q1; Is it longterm or session based?

Q2:What are type of action is it?(categories can combine).
--
Bondage - physical restraint (handcuffs: fluffy/leather/"police")
Discipline - mental restraints
--
Sadism - pain giving
Masochism - receiving pain
--
Domination - self explanatory
Submission - should be always called by its full name of "sexual submission"
--

Q3: and what emotion are you are trying to elicit: humiliation, control, reward, and et cetera.



FYI -I am basing a lot of my knowledge from a Dom who told me about his girlfriend who is a longterm submissive (humiliation). She wanted to be used at anytime (eg. wake up anal or be used in public) and "she couldn't stand making love".

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Cute. Asserting definition control based on something a friend of a friend either says or does.

I repeat my "Bullshit" to that as well. Individual groups can make up rules for themselves as they like, but neither you nor they can decide that a single act of (or attempt at) BDSM isn't ipso facto BDSM. It's the height of arrogance to try to make yourself a arbiter of definitions when you aren't in the position to do so.

You can't define what BDSM "has to be" for another writer, and that's the bottom line here. Anything asserting discipline and/or inflicting physical or mental pain can apply.

litmlove said:

Ok. There is more to BDSM than I said. Sex can happen but it is not important.

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That doesn't apply, or have to apply, to anyone else. For some the sex may be important, and who are you (or I) to say it isn't? About the only thing I think you can safely say is a truth about BDSM is that it encompasses a range of acts and desires.

lovecraft68 said:

Not necessarily sometimes its non sexual because the thrill for the sub is simply having no power whatsoever, the humiliation/lack of control is enough they do not need a sexual release.

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Fair point, yeah, there is genuine non-sexual stuff out there. But there's also a lot of "non-sexual as long as the cops are listening" BDSM...

litmlove said:

Ok. There is more to BDSM than I said. Sex can happen but it is not important...

FYI -I am basing a lot of my knowledge from a Dom who told me about his girlfriend who is a longterm submissive (humiliation). She wanted to be used at anytime (eg. wake up anal or be used in public) and "she couldn't stand making love".

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First off, there are millions of BDSMers out there and we don't all do it the same way. There are plenty of us for whom sex is an important part of things.

Second - if you're basing your knowledge on a guy who was in the habit of having anal sex with his girlfriend as an act of dominance, why on earth do you find it implausible that a mistress might have anal sex with a guy as an act of dominance?

litmlove said:

One final word. Read "A Good Student" by dr_mabeuse, it is a masterful story. Sorry I can't find a more relevant example, you could flip the genders, and/or the POV and you would have something you should aspire to write. I swear I almost never read BDSM.

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Yeah...good choice.

Since I have been called on to respond I have another comment for SexyDaemon. In your next story ask yourself:
- Where is sheer thrill of the main character knowing they could taken in any way?
- Where is the anguish, the suffering, and the abuse?
- Where is the struggle and resistance?
- Service or Pleasure?
- et cetera.

sr71plt said:

Cute. Asserting definition control based on something a friend of a friend either says or does.

I repeat my "Bullshit" to that as well. Individual groups can make up rules for themselves as they like, but neither you nor they can decide that a single act of (or attempt at) BDSM isn't ipso facto BDSM. It's the height of arrogance to try to make yourself a arbiter of definitions when you aren't in the position to do so.

You can't define what BDSM "has to be" for another writer, and that's the bottom line here. Anything asserting discipline and/or inflicting physical or mental pain can apply.

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I have always stated I am an outsider to BDSM, I said it again so you stop calling me arrogant.

My point is that SexyDaemon's Story would be much more erotic if it recognised its own fetish for what it is, because going through the motions of BDSM is clearly not enough. Is my "penis in vagina" fetish all about "penis in vagina" action? No, there is far more to it than that.

You say that BDSM can be whatever people want BDSM to be. Well, that is nice, but it explains nothing useful for SexyDaemon. By stating the major categories of BDSM I believed I was helping SexyDaemon find and focus on his niche. I did not dismiss the nuance of BDSM, no more than I could sensibly define everything sexual and what is not for my own "penis in vagina" fetish.

Why are you so hostile to me?

Bramblethorn said:

why on earth do you find it implausible that a mistress might have anal sex with a guy as an act of dominance

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Probably because I presumed the mistress was a Professional Mistress who doesn't do sex of any kind. I didn't think she was a prostitute doing BDSM as an extra, and I seriously doubt it was a woman doing BDSM for lifestyle. That is my own interpretation, if I was wrong then maybe it wasn't explained properly.

litmlove said:

My point is that SexyDaemon's Story would be much more erotic if it recognised its own fetish for what it is, because going through the motions of BDSM is clearly not enough.

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Not enough for what? You keep implying there are rules for acts of bondage and/or sadomasochism. There aren't. And there won't be no matter how many times you assert there are.

litmlove said:

Why are you so hostile to me?

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Probably because you are trying to assert there are rules for writing BDSM into stories that simply don't exist. So, you are not being construction on the OP's writing in this regard; you're being destructive.

I'm not all that wild about anyone giving writing instruction here who doesn't seem to know any more about the issues addressed than the one they are giving instruction to.

But I'm really not hostile to you personally--it's that you are representing a group of folks here who think that, because they are playing with organized BDSM, they can set rules on what can and cannot be done in terms of BDSM. They can't. An individual's fetishes don't observe someone else's rules. If someone's individual fetish form includes bondage and/or physical or mental pain, their fetish falls within the bounds of BDSM--whether it's found in a story or in real life.

sr71plt said:

Not enough for what? You keep implying there are rules for acts of bondage and/or sadomasochism. There aren't. And there won't be no matter how many times you assert there are.

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Yet you keep implying that I am implying something I am not. What I am saying is what I said: there are scenes of BDSM happening in the story and there is not enough care and attention taken for SexyDaemon's fetish itself. There should be more emotions, reactions, feelings and all of that which develop the erotic aspects.

sr71plt said:

. . . you are not being construction on the OP's writing in this regard; you're being destructive.

. . . it's that you are representing a group of folks here who think that, because they are playing with organized BDSM, they can set rules on what can and cannot be done in terms of BDSM. They can't. An individual's fetishes don't observe someone else's rules. If someone's individual fetish form includes bondage and/or physical or mental pain, their fetish falls within the bounds of BDSM--whether it's found in a story or in real life.

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I didn't, I won't, and you are misrepresenting me. This website is library of weird and wonderful erotica, nobody here is judging or limiting what others can enjoy. I didn't define a plot, I didn't limit the boundaries of SexyDaemon's fetish, and it is absurd that I should have to list the many things I didn't do.

I am here to help SexyDaemon convey his inner muse in writing so his readers can share in the depth of his intense erotic experience.

litmlove said:

I don't read bondage but even I know a proper Mistress never fucks her clients.

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litmlove said:

I have always stated I am an outsider to BDSM, I said it again so you stop calling me arrogant.

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If you don't do bondage and you don't read bondage, it would be wise not to make sweeping assertions about how it does and doesn't work.

It would be rare for a professional non-switching dominatrix to allow her clients to penetrate her during a scene (other than with a tongue or similar). Not impossible, but the author would need to do a good job of explaining why it's happening.

But a professional dominatrix penetrating her client as an act of dominance/humiliation? Unless there were legal obstacles, it'd be a rare domme who didn't offer that. FWIW, the first three dommes I found on a quick Google search all mention strap-on play as something they provide:

http://msjadis.com/tag/strapon/
http://www.correctioncentre.com/services/session-pricing/
http://melbournedominatrix.net/mist...-fetish-crossdressing-corporal-interests.html

Probably because I presumed the mistress was a Professional Mistress who doesn't do sex of any kind. I didn't think she was a prostitute doing BDSM as an extra, and I seriously doubt it was a woman doing BDSM for lifestyle. That is my own interpretation, if I was wrong then maybe it wasn't explained properly.

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...or perhaps you made some bad assumptions about what professional Mistresses will and won't do.

All the activities that come to my mind sort themselves out into two basic piles: Rituals and applications. Apprentices and acolytes generally freak out when applicants stray from orthodoxy....be it cooking, gardening, soldiering, carpentry, sex, whatever. One is obsessed with comfort, the other obsessed with fun.

litmlove said:

Yet you keep implying that I am implying something I am not.

<snip>

I didn't, I won't, and you are misrepresenting me.

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Welcome to pilot's world, litmlove. There, he is the only one allowed to be correct and the only one with an opinion worth listening to.

Don't worry...you'll get used to doing what most of us have learned is easiest: Ignore him when he gets on one of his "I know it all, dammit!" rolls.

Bramblethorn said:

Second - if you're basing your knowledge on a guy who was in the habit of having anal sex with his girlfriend as an act of dominance, why on earth do you find it implausible that a mistress might have anal sex with a guy as an act of dominance?

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Because...I mean....how can a woman ever be in control is the answer to that one.

Males domming women is far more acceptable for men than the thought a woman can be in control.

Even on lit I notice that a lot of femdom is written and posted in fetish rather then the BDSM category because many see a male being submissive as wrong somehow.

As for the OP apparently his source of BDSM knowledge is one guy who calls himself a dom and that's pretty much it.

I'm going to be an ass call "poser" and wander off with a suggestion to the op to read some stories here or do some actual research other than talk to someone who claims he knows what he's doing.

JKendallDane said:

Welcome to pilot's world, litmlove. There, he is the only one allowed to be correct and the only one with an opinion worth listening to.

Don't worry...you'll get used to doing what most of us have learned is easiest: Ignore him when he gets on one of his "I know it all, dammit!" rolls.

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This is a fun jab, since PL, Bram, and even JBJ are posting the same thing I am. Wonder when you'll get over this little snit you have going.

JKendallDane said:

Welcome to pilot's world, litmlove. There, he is the only one allowed to be correct and the only one with an opinion worth listening to.

Don't worry...you'll get used to doing what most of us have learned is easiest: Ignore him when he gets on one of his "I know it all, dammit!" rolls.

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And the ironic thing is he's sadly misinformed and usually wrong.