BDSM With Somebody You Don't Like

This thread has really got me thinking and remembering a lot from my past! The very first Pro Domme I sessioned with comes to mind. I remember sitting and talking with her 30 minutes before the session began. We discussed the scene that we would be doing. It was a scene where she would be taking revenge on me for doing her wrong. I was spanked soundly amid much verbal abuse. Both the physical and verbal parts got very intense. At one point, she got REALLY into it and almost missed me saying the safe word because she was laughing so loudly at me being in such pain. Of course, it was all within the context of the session.

Just as soon as the session ended, we were sitting back, talking, and the atmosphere was just as relaxed as it could be. Before I left, she asked "are you okay?" "I want to apologize for nearly missing the safe word, I guess I just got carried away when I was laughing". I told her that that was quite alright. And I remember telling someone (who was not into BDSM at all) about that. They were mortified and asked how in the world I could subject myself to such things. They then told me how they would be "so angry" if someone inflicted pain on them like that and then laughed while they did it. They were even more stunned when I told them how it was just all part of the session and how when the session concluded, we were both very relaxed.

Generally speaking, the most treacherous people are the folks we're closest to and esteem the most. The harm always comes from where you least expect it.

I tune in to people, and sometimes the hair on the back of my head stands up at the moment of first meeting. I spot trouble walking thru the door. But my heartaches come from people I've known and loved forever.

Fear is one thing, don't be alone with people you fear.

Dislike? Depends on what you dislike about them. I've avoided folks I didn't wanna make babies with, because 'baby mama' was a whole lotta potential headaches knocking on my door.

seela said:

Anybody have any similar experiences? Could you imagine something similar happening to you or do you always need to have a strong connection beyond sex with your partner(s)? How about respect and trust, do you find they have a connection to liking someone?

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I have been thinking about this, and I think I have me figured out

I can top someone I dislike (to a degree, I imagine there would be limits, as some people just make my skin crawl) and I have no absolute need to respect or trust them. The more I like them the more I enjoy it, though, because I want to push all of their buttons and hit all of their secret spots. Topping someone for their own enjoyment is more enjoyable to me than doing it for myself.

However, when it comes to submission of any sort there is no way. I need to like, respect and trust them all to a huge degree before I will give them an inch of myself. I also need to know that they care about me.

In a non-sexual relationship I have found several people that I don't trust, and I find I still like them. But I have known a lot of people as friends and acquaintances. Given sufficient sexual encounters I might find one that I don't trust that I could vanilla with, but I'm not sure that I could go to BDSM land with them...

For me a connection is vital

I need a connection in order to play. I remember once I played with a guy who I did have a connection to but I wasn't attracted to him. It made for a very arduous play period and I couldn't wait for it to end. So for me just a connection isn't enough I have to be attracted to them too. Otherwise there is no point doing it!!

Collar_N_Cuffs said:

However, when it comes to submission of any sort there is no way. I need to like, respect and trust them all to a huge degree before I will give them an inch of myself. I also need to know that they care about me.

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Thanks for your input.

This is something I've been pondering personally as well. Submission probably would take a lot more trust than bottoming. On the other hand I am currently enjoying the lack of deep trust and respect in my....whatever it is that I'm having and it has shifted from very clear top/bottom dynamic more into the way of d/s.

The fact that I do not like or really trust and respect either makes things feel a lot sharper. I mean, there's that needed modicum of trust that I believe I won't be killed or maimed, but up until that point it's a wild card.

dreamykitten2 said:

I need a connection in order to play. I remember once I played with a guy who I did have a connection to but I wasn't attracted to him. It made for a very arduous play period and I couldn't wait for it to end. So for me just a connection isn't enough I have to be attracted to them too. Otherwise there is no point doing it!!

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Yes, attraction is key for many, too. Thanks for bringing it up as well. And like it's been noted before on this thread, like is different from attraction as well.

I know that I for one have been attracted to people I have had zero business to be attracted to, my current tryst being one of them. It's a strange feeling to be betrayed by your own pussy in that manner.

seela said:

Thanks for your input.

This is something I've been pondering personally as well. Submission probably would take a lot more trust than bottoming. On the other hand I am currently enjoying the lack of deep trust and respect in my....whatever it is that I'm having and it has shifted from very clear top/bottom dynamic more into the way of d/s.

The fact that I do not like or really trust and respect either makes things feel a lot sharper. I mean, there's that needed modicum of trust that I believe I won't be killed or maimed, but up until that point it's a wild card.



Yes, attraction is key for many, too. Thanks for bringing it up as well. And like it's been noted before on this thread, like is different from attraction as well.

I know that I for one have been attracted to people I have had zero business to be attracted to, my current tryst being one of them. It's a strange feeling to be betrayed by your own pussy in that manner.

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I've been in service situations when I was into that kind of a thing initially - where I realized, it's not about me and them, it's about me and me. There's something hot, liberating, confusing, and personal about that - I think the relational nature of all this sometimes gets played up so much in the heteronormative romantic frenzy of things, and the logistical uncluttered mystery of sex gratis sex is underplayed. Queer people have HAD to fuck without exchanging names or necessarily being simpatico for so long that it's like a dingy underpainting to all our erotica even a generation or two later.

You can fuck to get close to someone, to get your rocks off, to pass time, or to learn who you are when you're completely alone in your own head. A lot of people are never going to be OK being animals once in a while, but I've found it useful in sorting vanity and dignity. Vanity is what you can't imagine parting with as a Dominant, and dignity is what no depraved act can touch if your soul is on right.

For a certain purity I like Domination with people I don't *know* everything about. Like/dislike isn't really it - if I know every single thing about you and you me, Jesus, forget it. It feels so weird.

I don't know everything about you and I don't want to and I don't NEED to in order to enjoy compliance. I don't want to process everything in a relational way, I don't want to have to re-hash it all in the morning. Not with the help as it were, anyway.

dreamykitten2 said:

I need a connection in order to play. I remember once I played with a guy who I did have a connection to but I wasn't attracted to him. It made for a very arduous play period and I couldn't wait for it to end. So for me just a connection isn't enough I have to be attracted to them too. Otherwise there is no point doing it!!

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Well said.

I couldn't submit to someone I didn't like, trust and hold dear to. I need to know they really care about me in order to submit. The relationship is more important to me than the BDSM. I have started a new thread along those lines.

Sam xx

xxxSubSamxxx said:

I couldn't submit to someone I didn't like, trust and hold dear to. I need to know they really care about me in order to submit. The relationship is more important to me than the BDSM. I have started a new thread along those lines.

Sam xx

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I agree with your statements here, and cannot fathom submitting to a man I don't like or respect. I need to know he cares about me as a person before I can let down my guard, open myself up as completely vulnerable. This can be outside of a romantic relationship, though. A kinky FWB would work quite well.

I like your new thread, Sam. I hope it generates some discussion.

Netzach said:

I've been in service situations when I was into that kind of a thing initially - where I realized, it's not about me and them, it's about me and me. There's something hot, liberating, confusing, and personal about that - I think the relational nature of all this sometimes gets played up so much in the heteronormative romantic frenzy of things, and the logistical uncluttered mystery of sex gratis sex is underplayed. Queer people have HAD to fuck without exchanging names or necessarily being simpatico for so long that it's like a dingy underpainting to all our erotica even a generation or two later.

You can fuck to get close to someone, to get your rocks off, to pass time, or to learn who you are when you're completely alone in your own head. A lot of people are never going to be OK being animals once in a while, but I've found it useful in sorting vanity and dignity. Vanity is what you can't imagine parting with as a Dominant, and dignity is what no depraved act can touch if your soul is on right.

For a certain purity I like Domination with people I don't *know* everything about. Like/dislike isn't really it - if I know every single thing about you and you me, Jesus, forget it. It feels so weird.

I don't know everything about you and I don't want to and I don't NEED to in order to enjoy compliance. I don't want to process everything in a relational way, I don't want to have to re-hash it all in the morning. Not with the help as it were, anyway.

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This stirred up so many thoughts that I've been struggling to put them into words. So I'll just say thank you for posting this. I agree with many points that you made.

ToPleaseHim said:

I agree with your statements here, and cannot fathom submitting to a man I don't like or respect. I need to know he cares about me as a person before I can let down my guard, open myself up as completely vulnerable. This can be outside of a romantic relationship, though. A kinky FWB would work quite well.

I like your new thread, Sam. I hope it generates some discussion.

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This has been my experience in past as well. I have needed a very strong connection before even bottoming, let alone submitting to somebody. I never thought that part of me would change, but lookie here.

In some ways I've found it even easier to drop down certain guards and let go of particular hang ups, because I don't like the person. It doesn't matter so much what they think of me. This realization has lead into some interesting conversations and experiences.

Like Netz said above, a lot of this really is about me and me.

seela said:

This stirred up so many thoughts that I've been struggling to put them into words. So I'll just say thank you for posting this. I agree with many points that you made.



This has been my experience in past as well. I have needed a very strong connection before even bottoming, let alone submitting to somebody. I never thought that part of me would change, but lookie here.

In some ways I've found it even easier to drop down certain guards and let go of particular hang ups, because I don't like the person. It doesn't matter so much what they think of me. This realization has lead into some interesting conversations and experiences.

Like Netz said above, a lot of this really is about me and me.

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For me, I'm a pleaser to my core, a service sub. I really can't imagine doing what I do in a casual sense. I have no pull to serve or worship a random Dominant, just one to whom I'm attached in some way. I do see what you, Netz, and others have described, that the lack of involvement could allow for some real acts of depravity. It's interesting to consider.

seela said:

In some ways I've found it even easier to drop down certain guards and let go of particular hang ups, because I don't like the person. It doesn't matter so much what they think of me. This realization has lead into some interesting conversations and experiences.

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Sorry to just jump into the conversation after I haven't even been on Lit for so long, but that really spoke to me.

I'm a dominant woman and I find that the closer I get to someone the more difficult it is to top them. I have to have a certain amount of respect for them because I need to still feel the humanity - and I think there's a hard edge I don't like if I don't like and respect the person... And their desires.

But I know the dynamic shifts as I get closer to someone and I really like them. I really get off on dominating and I enjoy it intensely... But I think I become "weaker" and more uncertain rather than the other way round. I wonder if it comes from an internal struggle about sex roles and perceptions.. And needing approval. So I end up not doing what I want to do or we end up much more vanilla.

Speaking about the hard edge - That story about the pro Domme was interesting for me because I could imagine that I might react the same way if I didn't like and respect the person. It feels like it could be a dark path if you felt disgust and didn't connect with the person. I feel like that sometimes when a man who wants me to dominate him blurts out all the things I could do to him and I don't have any interest or connection to him - and find the things he likes confronting - I have a level of distaste and disgust that could end up as cruelty and disrespect.

Maybe that's also why I shy away from humiliation - to me personally it feels like it could end up being a dark place and I could be a person I don't want to be.

Huge difference between sex and BDSM here I think.

I've had GREAT sex with someone I pretty much despised, in fact more than one person, so that absolutely is possible.

That said, I really don't know that I'd be comfortable being sub to someone in that position. My love is corporal punishment, and I just don't know that I'd have the trust that an appropriate level would be used, that a safe word word be honoured, etc.

On the other hand, that is one seriously hot fantasy, being thrashed by someone just because they damn well hate me; though I think this may be one of those which is better to remain in the fantasy realm....

BarefootNikki said:

Huge difference between sex and BDSM here I think.

I've had GREAT sex with someone I pretty much despised, in fact more than one person, so that absolutely is possible.

That said, I really don't know that I'd be comfortable being sub to someone in that position. My love is corporal punishment, and I just don't know that I'd have the trust that an appropriate level would be used, that a safe word word be honoured, etc.

On the other hand, that is one seriously hot fantasy, being thrashed by someone just because they damn well hate me; though I think this may be one of those which is better to remain in the fantasy realm....

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I really have to agree with you... this fantasy is hot as fuk, but I honestly don't see any way that this can possibly execute. the power interplay necessary for really great BDSM goes out the window without trust... it just becomes... just... blegh.

Bumping this because new people galore.

And... The dude came back out of the woods and I'm now even more confused than I was when it happened the first time around.

When it ended, it ended amicably. It felt like we'd done everything a couple of times already and it just made sense to let go of the thing. He suggested we spend some time together not doing bdsm things, and we did a few times, which was very awkward because we really didn't have much in common.

Now he came back because he's interested in something specific and figured that of all the people he knows, I'm the one who might be fucked up enough to go for the scenario. (I'm not going to share details.)

I'm very on the fence. Having a second round with him feels like a bad idea because I really don't think I like or respect him any more than I did the first time around. Going for seconds feels like my body is majorly betraying me. Yet, at the same time, I'm very intrigued.


So, does anybody have any thoughts on the matter? Any experience? Is liking your partner a core need for bdsm? Or respect?

I'm not sure I could go down that path, sex in any form to me feels better built on trust and affection, people on a journey of mutual pleasure.

JonBHappy said:

I'm not sure I could go down that path, sex in any form to me feels better built on trust and affection, people on a journey of mutual pleasure.

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Thanks for chiming in! I think this is the way most people feel. And I do too, largely. Which is why I've found this whole situation of mine interesting.

Do you find that you also have to like the person to be able to build the trust needed for a bdsm scene? Do you find that mutual pleasure is not possible if you don't like the person you're with?

seela said:

Bumping this because new people galore.

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I read it, got confused, noticed the date and prepared to let the person who bumped this old thread feel my wrath. Not sure if my plan is now spoiled or if I should follow through.

I'm the one who might be fucked up enough to go for the scenario. (I'm not going to share details.)

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Only the truth will set you free - show us the real seela, no hiding the reality behind pretty nails and food.

So, does anybody have any thoughts on the matter? Any experience? Is liking your partner a core need for bdsm? Or respect?

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What I can add is that I figured out that I need a certain level of respect towards a person to be intimitate with or interested in her. This respect is not really based upon proper behavior or proper desires - if you like to be clamped and then milked like a cow while tentacles fuck your holes, I can still respect you. It's okay if you suffer from anxiety disorders or lack of self-esteem either and don't respect yourself - I can still respect you. And if you think your only valuable contribution to humankind is the ability to get filled with cum and peed upon, than this is fine.

But there is a certain threshold of loss of dignity I can't stand and even just a fuck buddy must not cross this threshold; a threshold where I feel besmirched myself for association; and not even being a 10/10 girl can change my mind. While it is not easy for me to disassociate (especially if she has nice boobs), I cannot not do it.

Primalex said:

I read it, got confused, noticed the date and prepared to let the person who bumped this old thread feel my wrath. Not sure if my plan is now spoiled or if I should follow through.

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Aww, I'm sorry I took away a chance to let your wrath be felt.

FWIW, I think sometimes older threads are nice to revisit. If not for any other reason, simply to show current inhabitants of this place what those that came before them talked about. Sometimes it's easier to add to an old thread than it is to get the ball rolling with a new one, especially as there aren't that many people around anymore.

Primalex said:

Only the truth will set you free - show us the real seela, no hiding the reality behind pretty nails and food.

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NEVER!

Primalex said:

What I can add is that I figured out that I need a certain level of respect towards a person to be intimitate with or interested in her. This respect is not really based upon proper behavior or proper desires - if you like to be clamped and then milked like a cow while tentacles fuck your holes, I can still respect you. It's okay if you suffer from anxiety disorders or lack of self-esteem either and don't respect yourself - I can still respect you. And if you think your only valuable contribution to humankind is the ability to get filled with cum and peed upon, than this is fine.

But there is a certain threshold of loss of dignity I can't stand and even just a fuck buddy must not cross this threshold; a threshold where I feel besmirched myself for association; and not even being a 10/10 girl can change my mind. While it is not easy for me to disassociate (especially if she has nice boobs), I cannot not do it.

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If the respect needed isn't tied to their depraved sexuality, what is it tied to? Do you know where the line is or is it one of those things that you only know it when you come across it? Is it the same for everyone, given the nice boob variable and all?

In my case here the respect (or my lack thereof) is more about the dude being into things I cannot support, and has nothing to do with sexuality at all. Like, I'd have a hard time respecting someone who's hard core into Qanon stuff. That's not the case here, but something similar.

Different thing, but girl I found annoying at fetish nights. But seemed to hang round me, I didn't exactly dislike her just thought she was a bit too submissive for her own good. Ran into her in a noodle bar and liked her a lot more. So did end up having some fun. Which we both enjoyed.

Miss_Sasha_P said:

Different thing, but girl I found annoying at fetish nights. But seemed to hang round me, I didn't exactly dislike her just thought she was a bit too submissive for her own good. Ran into her in a noodle bar and liked her a lot more. So did end up having some fun. Which we both enjoyed.

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What do you think made the difference there?

seela said:

What do you think made the difference there?

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She wasn't putting on an act.

seela said:

Aww, I'm sorry I took away a chance to let your wrath be felt.

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It's always the unsexy kind in such cases.

NEVER!

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Do it for Uncle Lex.

If the respect needed isn't tied to their depraved sexuality, what is it? Do you know where the line is or is it one of those things that you only know it when you come across it? Is it the same for everyone, given the nice boob variable and all?

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I tried to pinpoint it while writing the previous answer, but failed. But it is the same for everyone, yes - this is a change due to my age though. 20 years ago I would have been more hypocritical and made exemptions for good looks.

For one, if you finally manage to convince me that you are worthless by treating my opinion as worthless. If it's impossible for me to compliment anything without you disregarding my opinion and rather talk me down, then there is quite some leeway, but really, don't wear me down.

I would fuck Lara Trump, Vanessa Trump, Ivanka Trump and Tiffany Trump, as long as they don't oppose birth control while fucking me(1). If you believe Corona is a hoax I would sort you out, but not due to the idiocy itself, but for my own safety reasons.

(1) Disclaimer:
I didn't follow their activities closely, so maybe I would change my mind with more information.

This is an interesting topic. I don't know that I've really gone down this path far. I've played with some people I don't know very well but through conversation and some play gained a level of trust. One guy I didn't really know at all but really gained a level of trust with him that I don't have with many others. I can't really sry that I despised any of them though. The one that I have the greatest trust with I think I would like from the things I do know. I have played with some people that o have some major differences with beliefs, especially political. I'm kind of used to having different beliefs and ideas from a lot of people around me though.

I think a lot of it depends on the type of play and why the person isn't liked. I still need to think on this.

Just wanted to say it was great to read through this thread, seems like good conversational threads are few and far between. Nice to see past people, too.

As to the question, I'll have to flip it over in my head a bit.

I can say I used to think I had to have a deep, trusting connection with someone in order to submit or even play in a kinky way. I wanted my partner - whether romantic or play - to "get" me. Know me.

After a time, I realized I'd never get to experience fun kink stuff if I waited around for this amazing connection. So I sought out people who were good at the things I wanted to try (ie, single tail, knife play) and asked if they'd consider doing those things to me.

One woman was super physically unattractive to me and frankly, she was weird (to me) but I really really liked her style of play.

Same with this older gentleman who had the black socks/sandal thing going on but he could wield a wicked whip and I wanted to try that.

I'm not quite sure this is the same as your question.