Trump’s school-choice plan to be released soon — and it looks like a game-changer

SgtSpiderMan said:

100% choice isn't limited or impractical.

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It can be.

We have currently is highly highly highly restricted and impractical choices.

SgtSpiderMan said:

if a kid doesn't have the right test scores, the right amount of money, the right clothes, a disability, is gay, has a bad haircut or likes soccer, the school doesn't have to take the kid.

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Schools don't have to take kids now.

Not in the zip code? Doesn't have to take them.

SgtSpiderMan said:

PLEASE explain how this bill offers more than 100% school choice.....I'm really looking forward to it.

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I never said it offers more than 100% school choice.

You're simply operating under the erroneous that I agree with you and consider tying a student and their funding to their address or go fuck yourself = 100% school choice.

BotanyBoy said:

Because consensual transactions are not the same thing as force of law.

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Techinically yes, but they are the only game in town and many people end up having to choose whether to buy their life saving medication or buy pay premiums for a year before they can have their medication again.

Consent vs. force. How come it's so easy for the left to understand the difference between the two when it comes to sex but when it comes to money they act totally fucking clueless as to the difference?

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I don't know about the left, but I know my tax dollars going to religious schools will be done by force of law.
Even tax exemption for religious groups is greatly abused.

I also know a healthy workforce is good for the economy and hence everyone in the country who has a stake in how well the economy does.

Parents sending their kids to religious schools so they can learn how evolution is "just a theory" is no benefit to anyone and is actually detrimental to the economy it the larger picture.

How do you know what is taught in religious schools?


Only a very small percentage of Christians read the Bible literally...


When we homeschooled we used a well known Christian homeschool curriculum and it never mention creationism.

about_average said:

Techinically yes, but they are the only game in town

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Because wonderful government regulations made it so.

Shit I wish I could get a senate committee to put up legislation to make me the only game in town too.

And people wonder how the 0.1% get where they are. I'd charge a fucking fortune if I had the legislature taking out all the competition for me too.

50,000 dollar inhalers anyone??

about_average said:

I also know a healthy workforce is good for the economy and hence everyone in the country who has a stake in how well the economy does.

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I'm not against good HC and would support reforms that helped.

As long as I wasn't ending up paying 280 million dollars for some thing that cost 0.99c at any convenience store in the country.

Also I understand the moral/ideological arguments against it.

This is the USA, and socialism is hugely anti-American on a variety of moral/philosophical levels. Also with how our government is structured freedom/capitalism (get the government out of it) are the only way to prevent the 280 million dollar aspirins and all the other things that have us already paying 4-5x what UHC should cost at MSRP and getting considerably less for it.

about_average said:

Parents sending their kids to religious schools so they can learn how evolution is "just a theory" is no benefit to anyone and is actually detrimental to the economy it the larger picture.

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I agree, but this is the USA.

If you don't like freedom you should move to a more socialist country that forces all children into state approved schools.

Here in the USA we have a strong tradition of letting people do their thing with their own property, kids and bidnizz. I support that tradition. If B'ama wants to be a bunch of fucking idiots I support B'ama's right to do be fucking stupid. As long as the nanny state doesn't force me to pay for their stupidity (socialism) it's good for me when they suck. They are the competition and I hope they all wind up digging ditches and driving porta-shitter trucks so that me and mine can prosper.

Texas doesn't want to teach science ? GOOD!!! Let them....they will suffer the consequences of their actions and we need to let it happen.

That's an entire state of kids I don't have to worry about mine competing with to get into top schools.

Same with CA, if they want to buy uber overpriced HC for the whole fucking planet because bleeding hearts galore LET THEM. As long as we don't force the other states to foot their "fair share" of CA's stupidity I don't see any problem with it.

BotanyBoy said:

It can be.

We have currently is highly highly highly restricted and impractical choices.

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We have 100% choice. Parents can pick any school they want that receives federal dollars.

BotanyBoy said:

Schools don't have to take kids now.

Not in the zip code? Doesn't have to take them.

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Show me the federal law that prevents that, you won't because it doesn't exist. In Florida any kid can go to any public school, zip code doesn't matter.

BotanyBoy said:

I never said it offers more than 100% school choice.

You're simply operating under the erroneous that I agree with you and consider tying a student and their funding to their address or go fuck yourself = 100% school choice.

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That's the awesome thing about facts, they're still facts whether you agree with them or not.

BotanyBoy said:

Because wonderful government regulations made it so.

Shit I wish I could get a senate committee to put up legislation to make me the only game in town too.

And people wonder how the 0.1% get where they are. I'd charge a fucking fortune if I had the legislature taking out all the competition for me too.

50,000 dollar inhalers anyone??



I'm not against good HC and would support reforms that helped.

As long as I wasn't ending up paying 280 million dollars for some thing that cost 0.99c at any convenience store in the country.

Also I understand the moral/ideological arguments against it.

This is the USA, and socialism is hugely anti-American on a variety of moral/philosophical levels. Also with how our government is structured freedom/capitalism (get the government out of it) are the only way to prevent the 280 million dollar aspirins and all the other things that have us already paying 4-5x what UHC should cost at MSRP and getting considerably less for it.



I agree, but this is the USA.

If you don't like freedom you should move to a more socialist country that forces all children into state approved schools.

Here in the USA we have a strong tradition of letting people do their thing with their own property, kids and bidnizz. I support that tradition. If B'ama wants to be a bunch of fucking idiots I support B'ama's right to do be fucking stupid. As long as the nanny state doesn't force me to pay for their stupidity (socialism) it's good for me when they suck. They are the competition and I hope they all wind up digging ditches and driving porta-shitter trucks so that me and mine can prosper.

Texas doesn't want to teach science ? GOOD!!! Let them....they will suffer the consequences of their actions and we need to let it happen.

That's an entire state of kids I don't have to worry about mine competing with to get into top schools.

Same with CA, if they want to buy uber overpriced HC for the whole fucking planet because bleeding hearts galore LET THEM. As long as we don't force the other states to foot their "fair share" of CA's stupidity I don't see any problem with it.

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I applaud and agree with your position. Unfortunately the idjits outnumber us. So, when the estupidos in Tejas or Messissippe or Hailabama discover how profitable YOU AND I are while their citizen/dependents aren't, they'll start to whine about how we're so rich that we can "afford" to help them out and pay a fair share of the expenses they've incurred in trying to educate the morons, excuse me, masses in their failing State. Then, when we refuse, they'll pass a law forcing us to pay or go to prison. And if we still refuse, well, equal justice will destroy our businesses, homes, and cities/towns in the name of fairness for all.

Disgustipated said:

Public money doesn't fund abortions.

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It does, in some states. http://kff.org/medicaid/state-indic...0&sortModel={"colId":"Location","sort":"asc"}

KingOrfeo said:

It changes the game from chess to tic-tac-toe. The profit motive and education go not well together.

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And you say this because taxpayer supported education has been such a rousing success ...

BotanyBoy said:

Because wonderful government regulations made it so.

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No argument there, but that doesn't change the current situation that we have to deal with.

This is the USA, and socialism is hugely anti-American on a variety of moral/philosophical levels. Also with how our government is structured freedom/capitalism (get the government out of it) are the only way to prevent the 280 million dollar aspirins and all the other things that have us already paying 4-5x what UHC should cost at MSRP and getting considerably less for it.

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Yes, the profit motive has certainly driven up health care costs. Such a company is going to do whatever it takes have good annual reports for the shareholders and make them money.
Blue Cross was doing quite well (as were it's members) when they were a not-for-profit, but as for profit companies got in to the market things got way out of balance and in '94 BC had to become for profit just to survive.

Here in the USA we have a strong tradition of letting people do their thing with their own property, kids and bidnizz. I support that tradition. If B'ama wants to be a bunch of fucking idiots I support B'ama's right to do be fucking stupid. As long as the nanny state doesn't force me to pay for their stupidity (socialism) it's good for me when they suck. They are the competition and I hope they all wind up digging ditches and driving porta-shitter trucks so that me and mine can prosper.

Texas doesn't want to teach science ? GOOD!!! Let them....they will suffer the consequences of their actions and we need to let it happen.

That's an entire state of kids I don't have to worry about mine competing with to get into top schools.

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Yes, I have no problem with all that, but the point is I don't want to be forced to pay parents to send their kids to religious schools.

I'd rather see my tax dollars going to actually fix the problem. The "School Choice Plan" is like buying a new car because your car has a broken propshaft.

about_average said:

No argument there, but that doesn't change the current situation that we have to deal with.

Yes, the profit motive has certainly driven up health care costs. Such a company is going to do whatever it takes have good annual reports for the shareholders and make them money.
Blue Cross was doing quite well (as were it's members) when they were a not-for-profit, but as for profit companies got in to the market things got way out of balance and in '94 BC had to become for profit just to survive.


Yes, I have no problem with all that, but the point is I don't want to be forced to pay parents to send their kids to religious schools.

I'd rather see my tax dollars going to actually fix the problem. The "School Choice Plan" is like buying a new car because your car has a broken propshaft.

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Why are you OK with forcing those same parents to both pay for their own children's education AND still pay the property taxes that prop up the secular indocrination centers that they both oppose, and are not utizing the resources of?

If the State is paying x dollars per child why would you oppose them spending less to educate a child, simply because the indoctrination included with the education that the parents prefer is not your prefered flavor of indoctrination?

Why do you get more say over this than the child's parents?

Conager said:

Why are you OK with forcing those same parents to both pay for their own children's education AND still pay the property taxes that prop up the secular indocrination centers that they both oppose, and are not utizing the resources of?

If the State is paying x dollars per child why would you oppose them spending less to educate a child, simply because the indoctrination included with the education that the parents prefer is not your prefered flavor of indoctrination?

Why do you get more say over this than the child's parents?

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I won't speak for AA, but I'm ok with that because those parents are still using the taxpayer funded school, and I personally don't want to live in a country of stupid people.

I'd love for you to tell us what you think public schools are indoctrinating kids about.

SgtSpiderMan said:

I won't speak for AA, but I'm ok with that because those parents are still using the taxpayer funded school, and I personally don't want to live in a country of stupid people.
.

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You better escape from your own body - fast.

SgtSpiderMan said:

We have 100% choice. Parents can pick any school they want that receives federal dollars.

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No they cannot.

Maybe Florida is the one exception but every state I've ever lived in (21 of them) you get your zip codes public school which unless you're rich is generally a shit hole baby sitting service, move, homskool or pay extra for private school.

That's not 100% choice and that is what this bill is addressing is that terrible system.

about_average said:

Yay! Even more of my tax dollars going to religious institutions.

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Correct lets keep them all in government indoctrination centers. The only choice that want you to have is whether to abort or not.

about_average said:

No argument there, but that doesn't change the current situation that we have to deal with.

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Then the current situation is that we've got some systems built upon shit legislation that need to be overhauled with something other than price gouging the US taxpayer for as much as possible in mind.

HC, Education, Military....shit if we could just get our government to not be complete fucking scum bags on those three departments it'd be a new fuckin' renaissance.

But...they can't touch anything without turning it into total scam.

about_average said:

Yes, the profit motive has certainly driven up health care costs.

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I totally disagree with that as the cause.

I don't think it's the profit motive because that's there in all things even "non profit" shit has to turn a profit and feed the people making it happen.

It's the government involvement.

They could not run the "costs" up if they didn't have the government putting a gun to everyone's head FORCING them to buy the absurdly priced bullshit from them.

about_average said:

Yes, I have no problem with all that, but the point is I don't want to be forced to pay parents to send their kids to religious schools.

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Not any more than they want to be forced to pay for your "There are 58,000 genders and white people are inherently evil Nazi racist, especially the males." schools.

about_average said:

I'd rather see my tax dollars going to actually fix the problem. The "School Choice Plan" is like buying a new car because your car has a broken propshaft.

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Again I disagree and here is why.

The problem is everyone trying to cram their bullshit up everyone else's ass, THAT is where the conflict lies.

If you don't want to just let other people live how they want then you have no real interest in fixing the problem your only interest is making sure everyone is being forced to do it your way.

The real resolution is to live and let live.... quit trying to overlord control freak the whole god damn world.

You don't want to support schools x y and z? Then don't. Go send your kid/money to school G or F the tech institute or the equally batshit lefty school where they ignore science for 58,927 genders. Point being everyone gets that same option to choose.

It's worked remarkably well in a number of countries. Good schools prosper while shit schools undergo changes or end up being closed.

Just the fact that we are doing something other than the less than spectacular same old shit which has slowly been failing us is progress. Trump wants to take a swing? Fuck it let him....more than the last few assholes have been worth.

james_1957 said:

http://www.theblaze.com/news/2017/0...leased-soon-and-it-looks-like-a-game-changer/

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Whatever it is, good or bad, the Lefty Liberals will HATE it with every fiber of their being.....some things you can count on, death, taxes, and Democrats hating everything Trump

BotanyBoy said:

No they cannot.

Maybe Florida is the one exception but every state I've ever lived in (21 of them) you get your zip codes public school which unless you're rich is generally a shit hole baby sitting service, move, homskool or pay extra for private school.

That's not 100% choice and that is what this bill is addressing is that terrible system.

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Yes, they can. Parents can pick any school they want that gets federal funding and there's nothing anyone can do to stop them.

Classic BotanyBoy dodge, show me the federal law, or admit to being wrong.

I still don't see what problem you have with 100% school choice.

BotanyBoy said:

Not any more than they want to be forced to pay for your "There are 58,000 genders and white people are inherently evil Nazi racist, especially the males." schools.

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Where are the schools that are doing this? Name one.

BotanyBoy said:

Again I disagree and here is why.

The problem is everyone trying to cram their bullshit up everyone else's ass, THAT is where the conflict lies.

If you don't want to just let other people live how they want then you have no real interest in fixing the problem your only interest is making sure everyone is being forced to do it your way.

The real resolution is to live and let live.... quit trying to overlord control freak the whole god damn world.

You don't want to support schools x y and z? Then don't. Go send your kid/money to school G or F the tech institute or the equally batshit lefty school where they ignore science for 58,927 genders. Point being everyone gets that same option to choose.

It's worked remarkably well in a number of countries. Good schools prosper while shit schools undergo changes or end up being closed.

Just the fact that we are doing something other than the less than spectacular same old shit which has slowly been failing us is progress. Trump wants to take a swing? Fuck it let him....more than the last few assholes have been worth.

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The hilarious thing is you still don't understand what you're advocating for. You're openly advocating for less freedom. People's taxes are still going to go to schools, this bill does nothing to change that. What this bill does is take away people's ability to choose. If a school wants to teach that the Earth is flat people in the community who are paying for the school have no choice in the matter because once that school gets their money the school can do whatever they want with no accountability. What you really seem to want is the system we already have.

SgtSpiderMan said:

Yes, they can. Parents can pick any school they want that gets federal funding and there's nothing anyone can do to stop them.

Classic BotanyBoy dodge, show me the federal law, or admit to being wrong.

I still don't see what problem you have with 100% school choice.

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Love to see it also, because that is what I thought as well. We all went to the school in our zipcode. Unless you played basketball and were recruited. Which is happening here in our area.

Beco said:

Love to see it also, because that is what I thought as well. We all went to the school in our zipcode. Unless you played basketball and were recruited. Which is happening here in our area.

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Another strong reason why this bill is a bad idea.

SgtSpiderMan said:

Another strong reason why this bill is a bad idea.

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The war on Devos is laughable. Ever heard of Arne Starkey Duncan? how did he do? Short answer, horrible, not very good.....he expanded the Board of Education and increased spending. That was his plan.

Let's see what Devos has to present first, then blast it. It cracks me up when they bar her from a school....I mean really, DC schools not willing to at least seek out other points of view?

Beco said:

The war on Devos is laughable. Ever heard of Arne Starkey Duncan? how did he do? Short answer, horrible, not very good.....he expanded the Board of Education and increased spending. That was his plan.

Let's see what Devos has to present first, then blast it. It cracks me up when they bar her from a school....I mean really, DC schools not willing to at least seek out other points of view?

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As a lifelong Orlando Magic fan I'll laugh at any DeVos I want.

We've seen her plan and she's made no secret of it.

SgtSpiderMan said:

Yes, they can.

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No they can't.

SgtSpiderMan said:

I still don't see what problem you have with 100% school choice.

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I don't have any problem with it.

SgtSpiderMan said:

Where are the schools that are doing this? Name one.

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All of the ones run by social justice asshats.

SgtSpiderMan said:

You're openly advocating for less freedom.

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Not at all.

You seem to not be able to explain how giving people more choices is less freedom.

SgtSpiderMan said:

If a school wants to teach that the Earth is flat people in the community who are paying for the school have no choice in the matter because once that school gets their money the school can do whatever they want with no accountability.

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Of course they will be accountable, if they don't perform the parents start taking their kids, and the funding now attached to those kids, elsewhere.

If they fuck their consumers it wont take long for them to go elsewhere and they will be fucked.

That's how accountability works in the real world.

SgtSpiderMan said:

What you really seem to want is the system we already have.

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No, I'm actually in far more favor of shit canning public school after 5th grade all together. 15/hr doesn't need to know anymore than the basics and neither do vocational schools. HS and on should be for those who achieve academically, not a gold star everyone gets just for showing up to the state day care center.

SgtSpiderMan said:

I won't speak for AA, but I'm ok with that because those parents are still using the taxpayer funded school, and I personally don't want to live in a country of stupid people.

I'd love for you to tell us what you think public schools are indoctrinating kids about.

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I'd love for you to tell me how parents who are paying for a private school that tgeir child attends are using a public school that their child is not attending.

Conager said:

I'd love for you to tell me how parents who are paying for a private school that tgeir child attends are using a public school that their child is not attending.

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Be happy to.

We all live in a society and rely on other people for stuff. So while someone's child may not attend a public school that someone still reaps the benefits of the labor of those who do attend public school and go on to build roads, make medical breakthroughs, keep them safe, make technological breakthroughs...etc.