Story Discussion: Rope and Veil

Hi everyone,

I'm pretty new here and I hope I'm not overstepping bounds by posting this, but I read a different sort of story the other day that's stuck with me, and thought it was worth discussing. It's called Rope and Veil, written by electricblue66. It's got complex characters in an unusual situation. The story is just a shade over 3 Lit pages long.

Here’s the link: https://www.literotica.com/s/rope-and-veil

And the links for two drawings referred to in the story:
https://www.literotica.com/i/rope-and-veil-the-drawing
https://www.literotica.com/i/the-pink-scarf



The story is written from the male character’s perspective, Alex, and the female character is Amelia. Amelia requires a wheelchair for mobility, having been paralyzed from the waist down in a car accident. (PWD stands for Person With a Disability.)

Sex involving someone with a physical disability is very rare to read about on Lit, perhaps because it’s a difficult subject to think about, perhaps because people believe it can’t be sexy and consequently authors aren’t willing to go there. Maybe it's too sensitive a topic.

What do you think of the way the author handled this topic? Do you think this author managed to strike a balance between being respectful (which was most certainly his intention, based on his prologue) and creating a sexy, erotic story?

If you believe he was successful, why? How much would you attribute to his writing style/author’s voice?

If you believe he was unsuccessful, why?

One story commenter who is a wheelchair user said it was disrespectful how Alex referred to Amelia's body. Did the author miss the mark on this point? Do you think Alex was pitying? Or would it be normal for someone newly dating a person with a disability to occasionally notice and consider said disability, whatever it may be?

Obviously this is a sensitive subject and someone who does not have a disability writing about someone who does can be touchy. Is there a point where being PC detracts from the realism of a story like this?

I'm curious what authors and readers alike think of this story, and I hope anyone who takes the time to read this thread also takes the time to post!

Hello, Walking Dream, and welcome.

I don't believe there exists any rule prohibiting a discussion about someone else's story, even if it is not the norm. I found it to be a well written story with good intentions, and I don't see any reason it shouldn't get all the attention it can.

Have you contacted the author about this discussion? I think it would be the polite thing to do, even if he does not care to join us.

Take Care,
Penny

Penelope Street said:

Hello, Walking Dream, and welcome.

I don't believe there exists any rule prohibiting a discussion about someone else's story, even if it is not the norm. I found it to be a well written story with good intentions, and I don't see any reason it shouldn't get all the attention it can.

Have you contacted the author about this discussion? I think it would be the polite thing to do, even if he does not care to join us.

Take Care,
Penny

Click to expand...

Thanks for the welcome, Penny

Yes, I guess I should have clarified upfront that I did get permission from electricblue66 before starting the thread. I thought the story was thought provoking, one that turns certain preconceptions on end and I told him so. He was enthusiastic to get it out there.

Cool beans.

It might be worth adding a link to each of the author's two illustrations in your original post.

Oooo! Excellent idea! Shall do so right now.

electricblue66

Hi Penelope,

Yes, I am across this. My preference as writer would be to stay low key - I don't wish to influence the discussion at all, but happy to answer any direct questions.

All I will say is, I knew I was taking a risk doing this story; but then found, in my parameters of a story's success (overall score, number of comments and number of scores as a ratio of reads) it is a quantum jump higher than the rest of my portfolio - which is fairly consistent. It moved people, I think.

EB

I'm really looking forward to hearing responses and having a good discussion. And feel free to comment on any part of the story you want, I only posted questions to guide things a bit like in a book club

Hi Waking,

I view your enthusiasm for another's story as a good thing, though your apparent expectations regarding a rapid response may be a bit high.

This note is within one of our sticky posts:

Our "How To" Post said:

After posting, waiting can be the hardest part. Unlike other forums, an SDC thread three days old isn't ancient history. Don't be alarmed if there aren't any responses right away. Even if someone reads the story the first day, they may take another day or two writing their response.

Click to expand...

This was true even when this forum was far more active than it has been for several years. It takes time to read a story and compose a thoughtful reply, something beyond, "Wow! Your story is hot. How about a sequel?"

I'm not at all surprised that no one has responded yet.

Since no one's required to participate, I can make no promises, but I suspect you'll see some activity in the next several days.

Take Care,
Penny

Thank you Penny. I did read that, but expected at least some response in 24 hrs. I'm too impatient, clearly!

I read the first page only plus the comments, so I'm barely qualified to pass any judgement.

First up, I think the writing was brilliant and engaging. The story has a great score, and it probably deserves it.

The reason I didn't finish the story was I got turned off by the initial descriptions of the rope and the way the protagonist had bound her breasts. Huge turn off for me.

As to the main question of ability and disability, and how it was handled, I felt it was a fairly accurate depiction of an able bodied person's point if view - the sort of person who doesn't like to pre-judge a PWD and - like anyone they meet - doesnt want to make them feel uncomfortable or as if they are being treated differently.

The truth is, of course, that PWD (an obvious one, at least), are a vanishingly small proportion of the population. That means the majority of the population (like me) has extremely limited exposure to the ways in which their life is different. That makes us understandably curious, but it doesn't give us the right to satisfy that curiosity without invitation.

This is something that the narrator describes very well. Unfortunately, they do it a little too well. When we first meet a person who does a lot of things differently to us (whether they be disabled, vegan, Hare Krishna, whatever), we notice lots of different things about them. After a while those things become uninteresting and not even differentiating, but when they're new, its all we seem to notice - even if we're not judging.

It felt like the story did a bit too much of that, like noticing the height of the door buzzer, her mitts, her legs that require manual movement. It was very realistic, and probably the very same things I might notice, but it started getting in the way of the story by the bottom of P1.

As for the depiction of a wheelchair bound woman (pun not intended), it seemed realistic enough to me, but I have had very little exposure and wouldn't pick up on subtle mistakes ... or obvious ones for that matter.

The author should consider having the art embedded in the story. Apparently it is possible to arrange.

Thank you, Belinda, for giving the story a try and posting about it

To be honest, the whole rope element worried me a bit too; it isn't one of my personal turn-ons and the imagery put me on edge. The thing that kept me reading was the feeling Alex was on edge as well. This wasn't his deal, it was Amelia's. The fact she would choose to bind up and restrain her body was not something he expected, nor something I expected as a reader. The ropes, along with her scars, provided tension for me. That EB66 managed to have that tension resolve into something beautiful was an unexpected surprise. I wonder if anyone else felt that way.

There was a lot of detail in this story. A lot. I suspect it shows the author's enthusiasm for creating realism as other stories of his are somewhat similar in that respect.

So for other readers, was there a point in the story where you thought Alex should have stopped noticing things that were different about her? Do you think the fact he didn't means he wasn't really embracing her as a person? Or the opposite?

I think the author means to make a rather simple statement with this story, that disabled persons can be sexy too. We all know confidence is sexy, and Amelia certainly appears confident in the face of adversity. I do wonder if Alex is attracted to her because of her disability rather than in spite of it.

That said, I believe Alex does pity Amelia, though I also think he'd rather not do so. Pity isn't really a voluntary thing, is it? Maybe Alex even lies to himself about it, which could make him a subtly unreliable narrator. I view all of this as quite realistic, both the pity and his aversion to it. Where is the fine line between sympathy and pity, and why does one seem to be so much more acceptable in our society than the other?

While Alex's physical descriptions of Amelia may be blunt, I don't think there's anything disrespectful about such frankness. Of course he's going to notice the ways in which her body is different, and more than just occasionally. How could he not? The mention of her catheter is cringe-worthy, definitely a moment of pity for me.

The richness of the author's expository voice struck me right away. It makes for a generally easy and enjoyable read. On the other hand, I think the story is overwritten in places, like the initial four paragraph description of Amelia-- I think half as much would have been closer to what one usually notices at first glance.

There are a few places where Alex tells me why Amelia does something or what she is feeling. These moments jarred me out of the narrative-- I wondered how he knew that, or worse, why he thought he knew.

Did anyone else notice the shift from past to present tense? At first, I thought it was clever and well done, but then the narrative shifted back to past tense, and I wondered what the author intended to accomplish with it.

Thanks, Electric Blue and Waking Dream, for sharing this story with us.

blin18 said:

When we first meet a person who does a lot of things differently to us (whether they be disabled, vegan, Hare Krishna, whatever), we notice lots of different things about them. After a while those things become uninteresting and not even differentiating, but when they're new, its all we seem to notice - even if we're not judging.

Click to expand...

Exactly.

blin18 said:

... I got turned off by the initial descriptions of the rope and the way the protagonist had bound her breasts. Huge turn off for me.

Click to expand...

Thanks for sharing this moment. It's always interesting to know when and why a reader abandons a tale.

I didn't find the binding a turn-on or a turn-off. For me, the ropes were just interesting. This is true of the entire story, for that matter, neither arousing nor repulsive, just interesting, if in a feel-good sort of way.

What I did find a little odd was when Alex invited Amelia to have a look at his drawings. He mentions people he'd seen on the street, or on the bus. I don't think he saw either of those two women on the street, certainly not dressed like that. Did I miss something?

1) I struggled with this one from the beginning. The disability didn't bother me in the part I read. It was the repetitive wording and meandering sentences.



2) Nowhere in this quoted piece does she state what she wants to get out of, yet he assumes it has to do with her disability. Why was that? Without specifying, she might have meant anything.

"Me too, can't wait to get out of this thing."

Forthright then, about her disability. Forthright too, in her attitude and sass. She was in her late twenties, early thirties maybe, still carrying the edgy look of some of the art and design students I had known during my uni days.

Click to expand...

3) I tried to picture reaching into a bag slung over my shoulder . . . especially if I was sitting in a wheelchair. I couldn't.

She pulled a pair of leather gloves from the bag slung over her shoulder, and wriggled her fingers into them.

Click to expand...

4) I'm sure many of the issues that stopped me wouldn't have bothered others. But because they did, I didn't even finish reading the first page.

Penelope Street said:

....

The richness of the author's expository voice struck me right away. It makes for a generally easy and enjoyable read. On the other hand, I think the story is overwritten in places, like the initial four paragraph description of Amelia-- I think half as much would have been closer to what one usually notices at first glance.

There are a few places where Alex tells me why Amelia does something or what she is feeling. These moments jarred me out of the narrative-- I wondered how he knew that, or worse, why he thought he knew.

Did anyone else notice the shift from past to present tense? At first, I thought it was clever and well done, but then the narrative shifted back to past tense, and I wondered what the author intended to accomplish with it....

Click to expand...

I noticed the same things, the POV shift in places, the tense shift in places, and the fact that the piece could have been edited by at least 20%, but I'm an impatient reader. The LIT crowd seems to like long drawn out scenarios. In that sense, the writing is stellar. Great work, EB.

I loved the story. It moved me, and I thought its approach and style worked.

When I was in the army, I had a couple of comrades in my section get badly injured (one by an IED, another in training). The way young men talk about suddenly going from being elite soldiers to disabled 'invalids', and how manliness and attractiveness to women was important to them, has stayed with me.

I liked Rope and Veil for making Amelia a strong, assured character. She has lots of character. Clearly, a lot of thought has gone into her. I like the way she is described as presenting herself so that the kid on the street takes in her hair before her chair.

I found the descriptions of Amelia's sexuality also very good. Again, thought had gone into how she enjoyed sex. The use of the rope to give intense sensations, of Amelia's use of eye-contact to bypass her broken nervous system, and the emphasis on upper-body contact was very good. It felt like the reinvention of sex for Amelia. The later passing reference to the couple having penetrative sex, touched me: they did the traditional sex act, but it's not worth commenting about because it's not that important to Amelia.

It could have done with some light editing, but the writing was strong enough to shine through. Worthy of 5 stars.

Gorza said:

I loved the story. It moved me, and I thought its approach and style worked.

When I was in the army, I had a couple of comrades in my section get badly injured (one by an IED, another in training). The way young men talk about suddenly going from being elite soldiers to disabled 'invalids', and how manliness and attractiveness to women was important to them, has stayed with me.

I liked Rope and Veil for making Amelia a strong, assured character. She has lots of character. Clearly, a lot of thought has gone into her. I like the way she is described as presenting herself so that the kid on the street takes in her hair before her chair.

I found the descriptions of Amelia's sexuality also very good. Again, thought had gone into how she enjoyed sex. The use of the rope to give intense sensations, of Amelia's use of eye-contact to bypass her broken nervous system, and the emphasis on upper-body contact was very good. It felt like the reinvention of sex for Amelia. The later passing reference to the couple having penetrative sex, touched me: they did the traditional sex act, but it's not worth commenting about because it's not that important to Amelia.

It could have done with some light editing, but the writing was strong enough to shine through. Worthy of 5 stars.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the thoughtful review Gorza. Yours was the kind of reaction I was hoping for from this story, the kind I felt myself. Reading is all about getting a taste of lives unlike our own, and I think erotica should be no different. Unfortunately, I think a lot of readers got hung up on editorial and stylistic issues in the story.

I love that you were able to relate parts of the story to personal experience with fellow soldiers. I myself worked in rehab for many years and thought this story was a hopeful and empowering representation of sexuality in a person with a disability. It's always nice to be surprised by thoughtful stories that challenge stereotypes and buck the trend of one-dimensional characters.

style and edits

Just before Naoko published her review of this story (link below), I'd uploaded a minor set of edits and tweaks, mostly in response to feedback I received from Missy (the PWD who inspired the story in the first place), as well as some of the comments on this thread.

I totally missed my repetitiveness in the opening paras until Naoko rightfully jumped on them. Ouch

I now have another edit, where those awkward writing moments have gone completely, but will wait for another set of editor's eyes to find the other clunky bits, before I fix it up one last time.

Meanwhile, I'm forever grateful for those folk who read through my stylistic glitches to find the heart of this story, which is of course Amelia, and Alex's love for her.

I still don't know where Amelia came from. As a writer I wish I knew - I need more characters like her, I really do.

http://feministerotica.blogspot.co.uk/2015/10/using-wheelchair.html

waking_dream said:

Thanks for the thoughtful review Gorza. Yours was the kind of reaction I was hoping for from this story, the kind I felt myself.

Click to expand...

I'm glad we're on the same wavelength on this story.

waking_dream said:

Unfortunately, I think a lot of readers got hung up on editorial and stylistic issues in the story.

Click to expand...

I came to the story through Naoko's review, so I believe some post-submission editing had occurred since then.

waking_dream said:

It's always nice to be surprised by thoughtful stories that challenge stereotypes and buck the trend of one-dimensional characters.

Click to expand...

So many stories on Lit are all about the sex, and so everything is pared back to genitalia bumping. The sex becomes unsexy quickly because it's mechanical and unimaginative. As they say: the brain is the most important sexual organ.

electricblue66 said:

Just before Naoko published her review of this story (link below), I'd uploaded a minor set of edits and tweaks, mostly in response to feedback I received from Missy (the PWD who inspired the story in the first place), as well as some of the comments on this thread.

I totally missed my repetitiveness in the opening paras until Naoko rightfully jumped on them. Ouch

I now have another edit, where those awkward writing moments have gone completely, but will wait for another set of editor's eyes to find the other clunky bits, before I fix it up one last time.

Meanwhile, I'm forever grateful for those folk who read through my stylistic glitches to find the heart of this story, which is of course Amelia, and Alex's love for her.

Click to expand...

Thanks, Electric, for writing this, and putting so much thought and imagination into it. As I said, your story outshines those 'glitches'.

The repetitive word use is something that all writers can easily find themselves doing without realising it. Once we write it, we find it hard to read our story afresh. I'm always tempted to write and submit as quickly as possible, to get the story out there and out of my hair, but a good editor can make a huge difference. I'd love to edit your writing.

electricblue66 said:

I still don't know where Amelia came from. As a writer I wish I knew - I need more characters like her, I really do.

Click to expand...

I think some of the best characters in writing are a melange of different people and influences that suddenly come together in our imagination. We store so much information in our minds about people and places that we often can't recall what the specific influences are.

I loved Amelia. A very rare portrait, unique and original especially for Lit.

electricblue66 said:

Just before Naoko published her review of this story (link below),
I'd uploaded a minor set of edits and tweaks, mostly in response to feedback I received from Missy (the PWD who inspired the story in the first place), as well as some of the comments on this thread.

I totally missed my repetitiveness in the opening paras until Naoko rightfully jumped on them. Ouch

I now have another edit, where those awkward writing moments have gone completely, but will wait for another set of editor's eyes to find the other clunky bits, before I fix it up one last time.

Meanwhile, I'm forever grateful for those folk who read through my stylistic glitches to find the heart of this story, which is of course Amelia, and Alex's love for her.

I still don't know where Amelia came from. As a writer I wish I knew - I need more characters like her, I really do.

http://feministerotica.blogspot.co.uk/2015/10/using-wheelchair.html

Click to expand...

Feminist erotica on lit? Will hell freeze over next?

Good to see someone doing it, and doing it well.