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Scene breaks, and other breaks

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Thatawfulwowporno

Virgin
Joined
Feb 5, 2015
Posts
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Well, I have two messages...

First, my child dropped my laptop and now it's broken and all of my work is there, so now I'm upset, and can't afford to get it fixed or buy a new one.

I'm in the process of writing more "For the Whored" and was working on a "Elunara: Mission Specialist" when I sat my laptop on my side table, and then my kid decides he wants to build a fort using my side table, so he grabbed my laptop and put it on the edge of the couch, where it promptly crashed into the floor. Now it's telling me I don't have the hardware to run parts of my laptop.

Of course my laptop is about 8 years old at this point, and it's had a broken N key for a couple of those years. *sigh*


Second is asking for help with scene breaks.

I get a LOT of messages about my scene breaks. I really don't know what to do about them. Most of the works I read have no scene breaks either, and jump from point to point, and we learn to write by what we read I guess. I don't know what I'm doing that's worse than anyone else. The only thing I can think to do is try to elaborate on the entry to the next scene, or put --- between each cut, which just seems kind of unprofessional to me. I mean, I have read books where they use diamonds and things, but I don't know. Any ideas?
 
[line space]
* * * *
[line space]

This works for me everywhere I post stories to on the Internet. Where the format permits, the * * * * could be centered. I do so in version published to the marketplace (Amazon, etc.).

Commiserations on the broken laptop.
 
The four asterisks are something of a standard. One of the sites I post to even changes that to a horizontal rule when the processor comes across it in the text.
 
Thatawfulwowporno said:
Second is asking for help with scene breaks.

I get a LOT of messages about my scene breaks. I really don't know what to do about them. Most of the works I read have no scene breaks either, and jump from point to point, and we learn to write by what we read I guess. I don't know what I'm doing that's worse than anyone else. The only thing I can think to do is try to elaborate on the entry to the next scene, or put --- between each cut, which just seems kind of unprofessional to me. I mean, I have read books where they use diamonds and things, but I don't know. Any ideas?
Click to expand...

I put a couple of more lines in the paragraph break when I change scenes. That seems to work fine. Readers understand, and it seems a more elegant solution than using asterisks or other punctuation marks.
 
MelissaBaby said:
I put a couple of more lines in the paragraph break when I change scenes. That seems to work fine. Readers understand, and it seems a more elegant solution than using asterisks or other punctuation marks.
Click to expand...

In publishing that would (and does) cause the editor to query the author on whether it was done on purpose or was a typing mistake. And, no, I didn't post this for any other reason than not marking the breaks is a major editor irritant. They always have to query whether it was on purpose or a mistake.
 
Always back up something you have that you care about -- be it pictures, documents, or videos.

I write in google docs and periodically back them up on my laptop.

Most novels I've read break scenes (and change POV) on the chapter break, to avoid head hopping.

Writing porn\erotic, of course is a bit different, I guess.
 
Thatawfulwowporno said:
Well, I have two messages...

First, my child dropped my laptop and now it's broken and all of my work is there, so now I'm upset, and can't afford to get it fixed or buy a new one.

I'm in the process of writing more "For the Whored" and was working on a "Elunara: Mission Specialist" when I sat my laptop on my side table, and then my kid decides he wants to build a fort using my side table, so he grabbed my laptop and put it on the edge of the couch, where it promptly crashed into the floor. Now it's telling me I don't have the hardware to run parts of my laptop.

Of course my laptop is about 8 years old at this point, and it's had a broken N key for a couple of those years. *sigh*
Click to expand...

I’ve got no solution to your financial problem or hindsight advice about keeping breakable items out of the reach of children (or clumsy adults like me.)

I use an external hard drive. I back up everything I don’t want to lose, not just literotica, and therefore have two copies of everything I consider irreplaceable. Computer goes bust? Get it repaired or buy a new one and copy everything back from the hard drive.
 
You might take your laptop to a repair shop and see what's broken. In a lot of cases the hard drive may not be damaged, and even if it is then files can sometimes be recovered from it (at a cost).

I keep copies of my stories on a thumb drive.

I had to go look at your stories to see why people might complain about scene breaks. I only read one story, and it was almost entirely dialogue. There was even a scene break right in the middle of dialogue without any indication. That made the story hard to follow, even after a couple re-reads.

You can add narrative around a scene break to make the break more evident, as well as using the four asterisks, as KeithD pointed out.
 
MelissaBaby said:
I put a couple of more lines in the paragraph break when I change scenes. That seems to work fine. Readers understand, and it seems a more elegant solution than using asterisks or other punctuation marks.
Click to expand...

Firstly, Melissa, let me get the ingratiating part out of the way. As you know I have enjoyed reading everything you’ve done and see no reason why that will not continue to be so. I have appreciated the advice that you have given me in the story feedback section. I have appreciated the private messages and without your two pieces of invaluable advice Early One Mourning would not have been as well received as it has been. You are a much better writer than I am and I can’t see that changing.

However.

There have been instances when you have moved location or time without any indication (at least to me) to the reader that you’ve done so. Don’t ask me to be specific because I can’t remember specifically, I was too busy enjoying the story, and I don’t intend to go back and read everything again just to substantiate this comment. Within seconds my mind adjusts to what’s happened and I think “why is there not an indication about what’s just happened?” Then I keep reading. Others may feel the same but, like myself, are loathe to criticise.

Do I have the definitive answer? No.
 
KeithD said:
In publishing that would (and does) cause the editor to query the author on whether it was done on purpose or was a typing mistake. And, no, I didn't post this for any other reason than not marking the breaks is a major editor irritant. They always have to query whether it was on purpose or a mistake.
Click to expand...

Thank you for that input. I did not know the proper procedure, and did what seemed to work. Given your comment and those of Emirus, I will change my methods to be more clear.
 
Emirus said:
Firstly, Melissa, let me get the ingratiating part out of the way. As you know I have enjoyed reading everything you’ve done and see no reason why that will not continue to be so. I have appreciated the advice that you have given me in the story feedback section. I have appreciated the private messages and without your two pieces of invaluable advice Early One Mourning would not have been as well received as it has been. You are a much better writer than I am and I can’t see that changing.

However.

There have been instances when you have moved location or time without any indication (at least to me) to the reader that you’ve done so. Don’t ask me to be specific because I can’t remember specifically, I was too busy enjoying the story, and I don’t intend to go back and read everything again just to substantiate this comment. Within seconds my mind adjusts to what’s happened and I think “why is there not an indication about what’s just happened?” Then I keep reading. Others may feel the same but, like myself, are loathe to criticise.

Do I have the definitive answer? No.
Click to expand...


Thanks you for your kind comments and helpful criticism. This is a fine example of why it’s so valuable to participate in the forum.
 
Whatever works. In other words, whatever works for the reader, not the author.

I often, like MB, leave an extra line or two for a short break. If it's longer, I'll put in a plus sign (+). Nobody has complained.

Sorry to hear about the laptop.
 
TarnishedPenny said:
Whatever works. In other words, whatever works for the reader, not the author.

I often, like MB, leave an extra line or two for a short break. If it's longer, I'll put in a plus sign (+). Nobody has complained.

Sorry to hear about the laptop.
Click to expand...

Again, if you don't clearly mark your section breaks, you risk your reader not seeing that there has been a section break. That you haven't received complaints doesn't cut it as negating inviting not having made yourself clear.

If you send it to an editor that way, it will come back with a request to clearly mark your section breaks.


It's fine if you choose to know better what to do for your own work, but this is bum advice for other writers for theirs.
 
NotWise said:
You might take your laptop to a repair shop and see what's broken. In a lot of cases the hard drive may not be damaged, and even if it is then files can sometimes be recovered from it (at a cost).

I keep copies of my stories on a thumb drive.
Click to expand...

I use the thumb drive to quickly back up writing files, too. :) Easy and cheap. I also email them to myself for large additions or "final" copies. (Which are never final)

I was going to second the possibility of recovering your data. An 8-year-old laptop almost certainly has a SATA hard drive, which can be easily removed from a dead/unresponsive laptop and plugged in to an external reader such as this one, which is hooked up to a working computer.

That's what a laptop repair shop can do for you--get your data back if that hard drive isn't liquid-damaged or the actual damaged piece.

I'd favor a local one over a place like Best Buy, as the smaller specialists usually have broader troubleshooting skills, but if Best Buy is the only option, try them. It's pretty easy if the hard drive is working at all; most places around where I live would charge a "standard labor fee". This is assuming you provide the external hard drive you want them to put your data on, otherwise they might sell you one separately.

A note about this option: they will only do "all or nothing" transfers. They won't cherry-pick what files you want, so you would need to provide an external hard drive with enough storage to back-up the entire computer, not a thumb drive.

Or if you have a really, really good friend who knows his or her way around a computer, that person could open the bottom of the laptop, remove the hard drive, and connect to the external reader (affectionately called a "toaster" by some). Then that dear friend could let you use their working computer to "cherry pick" the files you want from the hard drive, put them on a thumb drive, and leave the rest. Then take a drill to the hard drive and recycle it, or keep it if you want to repair the laptop.

Depending on what you lost, it might be worth it. The cheapest way to do it is buy the $20 external reader and a thumb drive with enough storage to hold what you want (if it's just documents and photos, 8GB is plenty), and ask a knowledgeable friend with a working computer help you.

If done professionally and the hard drive is fine, don't let them tell you it'll cost more than $100 to do what I just described. If you provide the external drive and the broken laptop, you're only paying them for their time, knowledge, and use of their equipment.

The only way it would be more is if the hard drive itself is damaged and they offer a "data recovery service" which specializes in damaged hard drives (those can be $700 and up--so usually only businesses who lost crucial records pay this, and it's not even guaranteed).
 
Etaski said:
I use the thumb drive to quickly back up writing files, too. :) Easy and cheap. I also email them to myself for large additions or "final" copies. (Which are never final)

I was going to second the possibility of recovering your data. An 8-year-old laptop almost certainly has a SATA hard drive, which can be easily removed from a dead/unresponsive laptop and plugged in to an external reader such as this one, which is hooked up to a working computer.

That's what a laptop repair shop can do for you--get your data back if that hard drive isn't liquid-damaged or the actual damaged piece.

I'd favor a local one over a place like Best Buy, as the smaller specialists usually have broader troubleshooting skills, but if Best Buy is the only option, try them. It's pretty easy if the hard drive is working at all; most places around where I live would charge a "standard labor fee". This is assuming you provide the external hard drive you want them to put your data on, otherwise they might sell you one separately.

A note about this option: they will only do "all or nothing" transfers. They won't cherry-pick what files you want, so you would need to provide an external hard drive with enough storage to back-up the entire computer, not a thumb drive.

Or if you have a really, really good friend who knows his or her way around a computer, that person could open the bottom of the laptop, remove the hard drive, and connect to the external reader (affectionately called a "toaster" by some). Then that dear friend could let you use their working computer to "cherry pick" the files you want from the hard drive, put them on a thumb drive, and leave the rest. Then take a drill to the hard drive and recycle it, or keep it if you want to repair the laptop.

Depending on what you lost, it might be worth it. The cheapest way to do it is buy the $20 external reader and a thumb drive with enough storage to hold what you want (if it's just documents and photos, 8GB is plenty), and ask a knowledgeable friend with a working computer help you.

If done professionally and the hard drive is fine, don't let them tell you it'll cost more than $100 to do what I just described. If you provide the external drive and the broken laptop, you're only paying them for their time, knowledge, and use of their equipment.

The only way it would be more is if the hard drive itself is damaged and they offer a "data recovery service" which specializes in damaged hard drives (those can be $700 and up--so usually only businesses who lost crucial records pay this, and it's not even guaranteed).
Click to expand...

This.

A drive enclosure is how I've always recovered my files from dead computers with functioning hard drives. With desktops, I often keep the enclosure connected for several months to the new computer, as I inevitably need some obscure file that I thought I would never need again during the initial transfer.

I personally decided to go with a cloud backup service. It's not all that expensive, really. After my Baileykins accidentally downloaded a virus via messenger file transfer that corrupted every .jpg on my system — some of which were irreplaceable — I decided I needed an automatic service that maintained a certain number of previous versions of backed up files, so I could recover good ones even if it backed up corrupted ones before I caught something having gone horribly wrong.

That's on top of having multiple copies of stories on my computer. ( the various drafts passed back and forth with my editor, formatted final versions for each of the sites I post on, etc. ) The email attachments from passing things to my editor are also stored in the cloud, providing yet another source. Some other things are also backed up on my own website.

After that virus corruption, I don't take chances.
 
Chromebooks are super affordable and keep your files backed up on a cloud at all times. Also has great security features. You can't install software on it, but you can use Google docs, Chrome, watch Netflix, check email, and install apps and extensions so it does what the average user needs.

As far as transitions go, besides using asterisks, try thinking about the scenes in your story like scenes in a movie. When the scene begins, are you zooming in from a wide shot to a close up, or do you start with a close-up and pan out? How is the mood set? Characters introduced? Does the scene end with a conflict rise or resolution? Is the narrative helping the action flow?

I hope you fix both breaks soon. :)
 
RejectReality said:
The four asterisks are something of a standard. One of the sites I post to even changes that to a horizontal rule when the processor comes across it in the text.
Click to expand...

In the States at least, three asterisks *** is the standard rather than four.
 
RejectReality said:
This.

A drive enclosure is how I've always recovered my files from dead computers with functioning hard drives. With desktops, I often keep the enclosure connected for several months to the new computer, as I inevitably need some obscure file that I thought I would never need again during the initial transfer.

I personally decided to go with a cloud backup service. It's not all that expensive, really. After my Baileykins accidentally downloaded a virus via messenger file transfer that corrupted every .jpg on my system — some of which were irreplaceable — I decided I needed an automatic service that maintained a certain number of previous versions of backed up files, so I could recover good ones even if it backed up corrupted ones before I caught something having gone horribly wrong.

That's on top of having multiple copies of stories on my computer. ( the various drafts passed back and forth with my editor, formatted final versions for each of the sites I post on, etc. ) The email attachments from passing things to my editor are also stored in the cloud, providing yet another source. Some other things are also backed up on my own website.

After that virus corruption, I don't take chances.
Click to expand...

I completely agree with Etaski and RejectReality's advice on being able to rescue your hard drive. You can do it yourself. There are lots of YouTube videos describing the process.

I also second working in the Cloud -- I agree that mailing an occasional copy to an alpha-reader/friend is the cheapest way to have another backup. And if it's on the cloud, you can always open an incognito browser and do some editing at a slow day at work ;)
 
Last edited:
Thatawfulwowporno said:
Well, I have two messages...

First, my child dropped my laptop and now it's broken and all of my work is there, so now I'm upset, and can't afford to get it fixed or buy a new one.

I'm in the process of writing more "For the Whored" and was working on a "Elunara: Mission Specialist" when I sat my laptop on my side table, and then my kid decides he wants to build a fort using my side table, so he grabbed my laptop and put it on the edge of the couch, where it promptly crashed into the floor. Now it's telling me I don't have the hardware to run parts of my laptop.

Of course my laptop is about 8 years old at this point, and it's had a broken N key for a couple of those years. *sigh*


Second is asking for help with scene breaks.

I get a LOT of messages about my scene breaks. I really don't know what to do about them. Most of the works I read have no scene breaks either, and jump from point to point, and we learn to write by what we read I guess. I don't know what I'm doing that's worse than anyone else. The only thing I can think to do is try to elaborate on the entry to the next scene, or put --- between each cut, which just seems kind of unprofessional to me. I mean, I have read books where they use diamonds and things, but I don't know. Any ideas?
Click to expand...

Well, the problem with Literotica's story formats is that normal scene breaks (double-enter/return, this is called a double line break) are masked by the edited-in paragraph breaks. If you were to write in a scene break like you're supposed to, even with this in mind, it would result in a huge gap in the page.
Under that circumstance, sadly, you'll have to adopt one of two possible scenarios:
1. You don't mess with scene breaks in a visual sense at all, and simply use descriptions to let the reader know.

2. Or you adopt bad habits of using special characters to mark them, which I don't recommend if you're a serious writer.
 
It's not a bad habit to provide discernible section breaks. It's the norm in publishing. Don't know why people are so hardheaded about this.
 
TriadWriter said:
Well, the problem with Literotica's story formats is that normal scene breaks (double-enter/return, this is called a double line break) are masked by the edited-in paragraph breaks. If you were to write in a scene break like you're supposed to, even with this in mind, it would result in a huge gap in the page.
Click to expand...

Huh? I use scene breaks

* * * *

and the line spacing on the page is no different to my paragraph breaks. I draft in .rtf, and it's just a double return, like any other paragraph break.

I did discover in my last story that the centering html does cock up the formatting by adding an extra line; but worse, on a kindle reader, it completely stuffs up the "page read" view. So I've now defaulted to left justified, as above.
 
electricblue66 said:
Huh? I use scene breaks

* * * *

and the line spacing on the page is no different to my paragraph breaks. I draft in .rtf, and it's just a double return, like any other paragraph break.

I did discover in my last story that the centering html does cock up the formatting by adding an extra line; but worse, on a kindle reader, it completely stuffs up the "page read" view. So I've now defaulted to left justified, as above.
Click to expand...
Then it would appear my first story here was heavily altered, because my original submission was standard novelized format, using standard line breaks for new paragraphs like you're supposed to, and paragraph breaks (double returns) for scene breaks, again, like you're supposed to, and it was edited by staff so that all of my line breaks, aka new paragraphs, were double returned instead of single.
I can understand it from a reader's perspective, that breaking up the text in such a way makes it easier to read, but in terms of editing, it's a huge error.
After I saw the story when it was finally approved, I noticed these spaces, and assumed this was a new standard for the site, and so all my work since then has included them.
It hasn't affected my writing at all, except where scene breaks occur - they blend in because of the format that my first story was changed into.
So, in other words, it was just bad editing, which in turn also caters to more bad habits on the writer's part (special characters).
 
KeithD said:
It's not a bad habit to provide discernible section breaks. It's the norm in publishing. Don't know why people are so hardheaded about this.
Click to expand...

Discernible, yes, through description, not special characters.

Special characters are most certainly not industry standard and/or the norm in publishing. If you've been told they were, then you've been given wholly incorrect information.
 
TriadWriter said:
Discernible, yes, through description, not special characters.

Special characters are most certainly not industry standard and/or the norm in publishing. If you've been told they were, then you've been given wholly incorrect information.
Click to expand...

No, context alone on a shift will not be understood by all readers. Just get over it and follow the standard here.

And, snort, I've probably been working in publishing longer than you've been alive.
 
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