Abandonment as a tool?

A

Angedesoleil

Guest
Alright,
Life circumstances lead me to post this to get other thoughts that may alter my own.

We all carry around our own baggage our unique life experiences that color our perception of every event that happens thereafter.

I'm curious how many on the D side ( PYL) use emotional distance as a tool. How often and when do you feel it is useful to use walking away to make a point. I do not mean walking away to get your emotions in check so you can act not react. No, I mean " I'm not talking to you."

Conversely s types ( pyl), is this type of emotional separation effective? Is it ever a good motivator? Or is it innately damaging?



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I come from a background fraught with Abandonment, so I'm not at all used to this being used as a tool in a positive sense. It has the exact opposite effect than it used to on me. Instead of making me go "noooo, please don't go!" It makes me want to say " BYE!" I know that is counter intuitive to my nature, but I think that is my walls going up hard and fast because I've been maliciously abandoned one too many times.

So. ... talk logic to me. I'm listening.
 
This is a hard limit for me. I would not be okay with this and it would likely end our relationship if we disagreed on this limit.
 
I guess what I'm asking is... if someone says "I'm not going to talk to you for a while." And the intent behind it is punishment... would you also internalize that as Abandonment? Or am I being unfair/ illogical due to my own past experiences or issues.
 
I guess what I'm asking is... if someone says "I'm not going to talk to you for a while." And the intent behind it is punishment... would you also internalize that as Abandonment? Or am I being unfair/ illogical due to my own past experiences or issues.

I see. I know I would have to be in the situation to know for sure what I would do/feel. I believe I would process it exactly the same as you. I have talked about this in advance with my Dominant partners, that this as a punishment would be a hard limit for me.
 
Thank you, ToPleaseHim. I appreciate your comments.

Hoping for other input.
 
I'm a fan of funishment. For example, I used to chew gum kind of loudly and it bugged my guy. He asked me to check it. I didn't. I wore gum on my nose and stood in corner with a red ass for a while.

For me, the "punishment" should fit the "crime." So, in this situation, does walking away fit? Were you all up in his space, wouldn't stop talking while he was working from home?? I'm trying to imagine the scenario where someone would say they're walking away for a while.

The key here is your comment : "Or am I being unfair/ illogical due to my own past experiences or issues". Red flag that he's not taking your past issues in to account. That's huge. Is this stuff you've discussed with him?

Without knowing more, walking away seems a lazy way out. Maybe even irresponsible.
 
I'll add that sometimes, in very rare situations, my guy used discipline to help me face a fear or help get over something I just couldn't get ahold of. My own personal D/s life coach.

He did some stuff with me related to body image that was pretty intense. An easier example was me always losing my keys. I held keys in my mouth, between my knees, up my butt cheeks... It was an interesting way to get over my irresponsible key ways.

Soooo - if somehow he's actually helping you get over your fear of abandonment by leaving and then proving he'll be back.... I dunno. Mayyybeeee?!?!?! Still feels mean spirited and an easy way out for him, leaving you holding a bagful of emotional stuff to deal with.
 
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No, Punnishment didn't fit the crime, but he *could* chime in here and explain how it did if he so choose. No, crime was that I answered a question honestly, and he didn't like the reply. Before we go there... no it wasn't done rudely, meanly, thoughtlessly, it was simply *I don't like that answer*.
I get why the answer wasn't ideal. I was asked to whom I'm attached, and he would rather the answer simply be *him*, but that isn't the reality of my life. This isn't hidden, this isn't something new, this is and has been, and will always be my reality. So he was angry that I listed my husband first, my Sir second, and him third. I get it hurt his pride, and reminded him of a reality he doesn't like.

I get I could have been smarter and said :p well you, and and. As opposed to person, person, and you.

As for the red flag. Yes. Well, I don't think he means to ignore things he knows. Yes, he knows. I've been very very upfront about my issues. I've a few. This happens to be one that will send me into a tailspin. We have been over this even recently in late June. So, no it isn't something I expected him to mindread.

Yes, he apologized... but I'm still trying to see if there is another side I'm not seeing. I think most times it is easier to change my own mental attitude than for someone else to change their way of doing things. So what I was looking for was a PLY to come in and say nah I do this and it is effective because XYZ. Ironically if I looked at it from my own religious stance it is ( effective), but that is one of the things that drives me up a wall.

Lol. Cookie I love you and your stories. I still remember how you quit misplacing your keys :p
 
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Lol! Yep that story.

I WISH that were the case, but I don't think so.
 
Dom side

Sounds like he is tossing a bit of a hissy fit . In a way he Knows will hurt, just cause he can . Or thinks he can . My answer would have been, if you go, your gone, not just for a while, or until you deside your done . Gone .
 
I find using "emotional distance" as a tool for punishment a jerk move. Unless some submissive is REALLY into that stuff (as in, they asked you to do it) - I deem such behaviour a serious case of emotional abuse.

There's nothing much I can add to that, yeah. Don't do that to your sub, NEVER. BDSM should fire up the emptions, not try and neglect and shun them.:rolleyes:
 
Thank you.

Thank you to DomineerM. I kinda felt that way, but also wanted to be sure I wasn't basically doing the same thing.

Thank you Nezhul. I said the same thing in my initial reply; that knowing my background and everything going on around it ( I actually met him irl last week.).. that it was tantamount to abuse.

I hope that this will be a growing spot. It can be if he lets it be, or it won't be. But thank you for the reality check. I appreciate it.
 
Alright,
Life circumstances lead me to post this to get other thoughts that may alter my own.

We all carry around our own baggage our unique life experiences that color our perception of every event that happens thereafter.

I'm curious how many on the D side ( PYL) use emotional distance as a tool. How often and when do you feel it is useful to use walking away to make a point. I do not mean walking away to get your emotions in check so you can act not react. No, I mean " I'm not talking to you."

Conversely s types ( pyl), is this type of emotional separation effective? Is it ever a good motivator? Or is it innately damaging?



~~~~~~~~~~~~
I come from a background fraught with Abandonment, so I'm not at all used to this being used as a tool in a positive sense. It has the exact opposite effect than it used to on me. Instead of making me go "noooo, please don't go!" It makes me want to say " BYE!" I know that is counter intuitive to my nature, but I think that is my walls going up hard and fast because I've been maliciously abandoned one too many times.

So. ... talk logic to me. I'm listening.



I would say goodbye this wasn't for us especially if they knew the past and knew what you've been through before I would just have to let them go. Its their loss at the end of the day not yours.
 
No, Punnishment didn't fit the crime, but he *could* chime in here and explain how it did if he so choose. No, crime was that I answered a question honestly, and he didn't like the reply. Before we go there... no it wasn't done rudely, meanly, thoughtlessly, it was simply *I don't like that answer*.
I get why the answer wasn't ideal. I was asked to whom I'm attached, and he would rather the answer simply be *him*, but that isn't the reality of my life. This isn't hidden, this isn't something new, this is and has been, and will always be my reality. So he was angry that I listed my husband first, my Sir second, and him third. I get it hurt his pride, and reminded him of a reality he doesn't like.

I get I could have been smarter and said :p well you, and and. As opposed to person, person, and you.

As for the red flag. Yes. Well, I don't think he means to ignore things he knows. Yes, he knows. I've been very very upfront about my issues. I've a few. This happens to be one that will send me into a tailspin. We have been over this even recently in late June. So, no it isn't something I expected him to mindread.

Yes, he apologized... but I'm still trying to see if there is another side I'm not seeing. I think most times it is easier to change my own mental attitude than for someone else to change their way of doing things. So what I was looking for was a PLY to come in and say nah I do this and it is effective because XYZ. Ironically if I looked at it from my own religious stance it is ( effective), but that is one of the things that drives me up a wall.

Lol. Cookie I love you and your stories. I still remember how you quit misplacing your keys :p

Sounds like he broke character and had a normal human emotional response to feeling his pride wounded. I don't think in that case I would take it as a D/s thing and just that he felt hurt and didn't know how else to deal with it. (At least that's the impression I get from your story).
 
Agreed. Walking away is a deal breaker. Especially in anger or disappointment.
Not my brand of emotional sadism.

Which brings us back to Miles’ thread last week, and being physically hurt vs. emotionally.
My ass is sore. I can barely sit from the spanks.
I’m sore. Inside.

But my heart is full. I have his heart with me.

Funny, huh?
 
Which brings us back to Miles’ thread last week, and being physically hurt vs. emotionally.
My ass is sore. I can barely sit from the spanks.
I’m sore. Inside.

But my heart is full. I have his heart with me.

Funny, huh?

That was a really good and thought provoking thread. I wish there were more for Doms. It's interesting to me to hear them speak about their submissive, the way they feel before-during-after, the level of respect, etc. Everyone is so different. I see a thousand subs divulging their every desire and wish but id like a peek into the other side too.

But I digress. Back to the subject!
 
Goes to find the thread. I was *ironically * occupied last week. Lol.
 
Sounds like he broke character and had a normal human emotional response to feeling his pride wounded. I don't think in that case I would take it as a D/s thing and just that he felt hurt and didn't know how else to deal with it. (At least that's the impression I get from your story).

I think there's an element of this. He was hurt and just had a person moment, not a dom moment. I'd kinda be butt-hurt if I was told I was third in line. That being said, it sounds like he knows the relationship he's in and it shouldn't have been a surprise. Why he even asked seems like a teen-age girl move. :rolleyes:
 
It really wouldn't be abandonment, would be simply the threat of abandonment. In sales this is called the takeaway close. I loathe the takeaway close. I never respond favorably to it and I would never use that with someone else.

If I sound like I'm using the takeaway close that's because I've already drizzled gasoline all over the bridge and I'm lighting the match. Im not even going to look over my shoulder.
 
Conventional wisdom says I should keep my yap shut. Or maybe braid my fingers together to keep from typing what I'm about to.

But, my $.o2 (which is probably worth a tad bit less) is this;

There was a specific time I can recall when Love had said or done something that specifically hit a trigger I hadn't known I'd had. I don't remember now just what it was specifically, didn't even remember the incident until I stumbled across this thread. (In my defense, it was ... er... two decades ago?)

Now, the thing is, I did actually have a lot of tools in my toolkit. On top of spending a lot of time and effort in college classes (and ye gods, the money!), I'd gone on professionally to work in an environment which demanded that I not only learn how to control myself but learn how to control a disparate group of people that really, really didn't want to be controlled. Not even by themselves.


And, of course, physical control had to be very carefully applied and monitored in those professional scenarios, so I had to really hone my mental and emotional game.

What this meant in my home life was that I should have been very well adapted to the roles we had, whether by choice or not, found ourselves falling into. (Probably the best label would be the DD/lg. Which the label alone still makes me cringe [although Love would probably have laughed her ass off at my reaction]. Which in and of itself is probably an indication that bright young Little One who pointed it out is probably mistaken. But that's beside the point.)

Any road, whatever it was that she had done, probably said as I can recall her sitting on the couch right beside the front door, hit a hidden jitter trigger just the wrong way.


I didn't say a word in response. I couldn't. Every iota of my training from childhood all the way up to continuing education hours for on-the-job training said "Lock it down. NEVER respond from emotion. If you do, you've already lost. And will do more harm than good."

I turned on my heel and stalked away, stripped off and got in the shower.


A few minutes later, she tried to join me. And was very, very apologetic.


Not only that but as part of my training, I'd had to become very adept at reading non-verbals. And I could tell that she was hurting. More, that she was terrified that she had broken me, had broken us. We hadn't actually been together very long, you see. Maybe... two years? At the most? And she had never seen me react that way. Not to anything. And Love never was particularly gifted at reading people. Primarily because her kneejerk conditioned response from a hard childhood and bad first marriage was that she was not worth loving.


Unfortunately, I was not in a place where I could respond with anything other than cold rationality in the moment. Which was not what she needed from me.


With my arms folded across my chest, I stared at her for a long moment.

And then told her she needed to get out, get dressed, and wait for me on the couch until I was ready to continue our discussion.


Perhaps I should have added that I still loved her, but in that moment I didn't because I had flipped the switch in my brain which shuts off all emotion. I'd had to in order to keep from lashing out in pain or anger.


She did as she was told.


And I stood in the hot shower until the hot water ran out and in the cold water for several more minutes as I ran down each and every thought and gradually turned the emotions back on and chased them down as well.


Only when I was back in control did I get out, dry off, and go find her.


Sitting right where I'd told her to. With a pile of Kleenex on the coffee table and still crying.


I didn't give her a choice in the matter, but sat down and pulled her into my lap where I held her and stroked her hair until she stopped crying.


And only then continued the discussion we had been having. And including my own reactions to it.


Amongst everything else, I told her in no uncertain terms that she was mine and she wasn't going to ever get away that easily. So, her abandonment fears were really not appropriate to the situation. That I could understand why she had them. And that she would never get over them completely. But, that no matter how angry or upset I might get, I had meant every word when I promised "until death do us part."

And took her back to the bedroom and reclaimed her for the better part of six hours...


Of course, she had to test it. Never really stopped until death did us part nine months and thirteen days ago. But, that was really one of only three serious disagreements I can recall in... uh... twenty-five years? Seems like longer.


Any road, I don't know. I don't know if it is at all relevant to your situation.


I confess I don't really grok the whole e-dom thing.

And I don't really grok having a spouse, a Sir, and a third thing.


But, I don't know that I really need to.


I tend to agree that it sounds to me like he'd had a button pushed. Really couldn't say if it was a button he hadn't recognized in time to keep from losing his cool. Or if some part of him was standing hip deep in De Nile and he didn't like the wake up call. Or if he's into mental games and subjugation bordering on emotional sadism.


So, I don't know. Maybe my little sidelight isn't really relevant at all and I shouldn't have mentioned it. Or maybe it is and it can help you find a little insight. Either way, that particular episode has been on my mind since I first stumbled across this thread back at the original posting and I got tired of sitting on it until it hatched.


But, first and foremost, take care of you. And to me that means if you consistently say something ain't okay, but he consistently does it anyway, that ain't okay.


Wandering off into dusk now with hopes for a brighter tomorrow for ya with the sun out of your eyes and wind at your back.
 
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Farawyn;
Now that I started reading it I DID start reading it last week, but I was so deep into r/l being overseas that I completely forgot to get back to it. Thank you for the reminder. I don't think I can actually reply to it yet though as there is part of it in still trying to deal with me about.

Thanks Que. Accurately put.

PuckIt- #1 first and foremost I am so deeply sorry for your loss. You have my sincere condolences. I'm glad you had each other and all of your memories for the 25 years you had. I'm so grateful that you shared that memory with us.

#2 you most certainly should not have laced your fingers together. Your reply was most wanted. It is a very good insight. See, what you describe I can deal with, rather, would that either husband or he operated in that way. Yes, you *could* have chosen to reply to her hurt immediately, and you didn't... But you did as soon as you were able. I think one of the main differences is that he is a million miles away. There is no way for him to hug me, or talk to me, or tell me it's ok. We don't have two years under our belt, and we have zero commitment, so the possibility of either or both walking away is real.
But your memory is absolutely pertinent because I can point to it and say THAT I can live with. Quite further than that... More than live with... that is pretty much awesomeness in my book. I'd darn near say you win the prize.

As it stands now, he is pretending like it didn't happen, like it doesn't exist. This is apparently also a *thing*. I think I'm not going to be posting much for a couple days because we've got to have this out. I hope we make it out the other side, I really do. But what I've come to is that if he can't communicate, at least try to communicate then I can't do it for us. Just like he can't be responsible for what is in my head that I don't make him aware of, I can't function under that which I'm not made privy. Worse, I don't think he knows himself. He is an amazingly good person. I care about him deeply. I just don't think it is a workable dynamic if he isn't in a place he can communicate with me, or understand and respect limits consistently. It isn't about not accepting and being ok with a human moment.
 
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