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So why does she always have to love it?

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disabused

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Newbie female here.

I just read this in a reply from RejectReality in a previous thread "How rough":
"The second form generally says that stories where the victim gets no pleasure from the sex acts aren't going to be accepted."

Oh. Okay. That helps explain why in every story tagged non-consensual, mind control, BDSM, etc the chick ends up totally digging it. Yawn.

My searches here have lead me to believe that not only must every subjugated female enjoy the encounter, she must explicitly experience sexual gratification in every story. The story I would like to submit is first person "victim". She has her reasons for participating, but rarely is the result sexual gratification. Should I even bother?

We recognize that people have fantasies that they would not enjoy in reality. Why must every such story here include an admission that she does, in fact get off on, for instance, humiliation? To have to admit it is, well, humiliating!
 
That's a question for the site submissions editor and owner, Laurel. Those are her rules; this is her Web site. She won't read your question here. You can send a Private Message (PM, upper right column of this page) to her at Laurel. The rest of us (and you) don't have a vote on this.
 
When you're coming from the victim's perspective, it doesn't necessarily have to be sexual pleasure she gets from it. It sounds as if there's some sort of satisfaction derived in your brief description, and that may be sufficient to pass.

Probably depends upon how violent it is.

As I said in the other thread, may as well give it a go. Nothing to lose, really. If you finish it and it can't be posted here, that doesn't mean you can't take it to another venue. There are sites with fewer restrictions on violent/non-con content and reasonable size readerships. Nowhere the size of Lit, but big enough to merit the effort of posting them.

If it comes to that, drop me a PM and I'll link you to one where there's next to no content restrictions and plenty of readership. When something doesn't fall within Laurel's guidelines, she's perfectly fine with you posting it elsewhere. She's said that many times over the years, so I have no qualms about directing people to such sites with that kind of work.
 
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disabused said:
My searches here have lead me to believe that not only must every subjugated female enjoy the encounter, she must explicitly experience sexual gratification in every story. The story I would like to submit is first person "victim". She has her reasons for participating, but rarely is the result sexual gratification. Should I even bother?
Click to expand...


Borderline. It's site policy that non-consent must ultimately become consensual, with the victim ultimately 'enjoying' the experience.

There are two ways to find out. One is to submit, and see if Laurel passes it (and even if she does, and a reader reports the story, she'll take a closer look and it might get taken down later).

Alternatively, PM Laurel with a precis of the story, and ask her advice. It's her call, and hers alone.
 
disabused said:
Newbie female here.

I just read this in a reply from RejectReality in a previous thread "How rough":
"The second form generally says that stories where the victim gets no pleasure from the sex acts aren't going to be accepted."

Oh. Okay. That helps explain why in every story tagged non-consensual, mind control, BDSM, etc the chick ends up totally digging it. Yawn.

My searches here have lead me to believe that not only must every subjugated female enjoy the encounter, she must explicitly experience sexual gratification in every story. The story I would like to submit is first person "victim". She has her reasons for participating, but rarely is the result sexual gratification. Should I even bother?

We recognize that people have fantasies that they would not enjoy in reality. Why must every such story here include an admission that she does, in fact get off on, for instance, humiliation? To have to admit it is, well, humiliating!
Click to expand...

FWIW, the relevant guideline is here, near the end of post #1: http://forum.literotica.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=175666

Was there excessive violence, snuff, or abuse of characters in your story?

Your story was too extreme for our guidelines. These judgments are subjective, and thus we can't give an exact definition of what exactly is "too much". Certain "violence" in a BDSM situation between consenting adults may be allowed, while the same "violence" between strangers in a non-consentual situation will not. Tone and respect for characters, as well as the "violent" scene within the context of the story, are what we make our judgments upon. If your story is rejected for this, feel free to send the story back with a polite request for an explanation and we will tell you why it was rejected. If you disagree with our assessment, you are more than welcome to publish your story elsewhere rather than alter it to our guidelines. We respect your rights as authors to write on whatever you like, however you like.

Added by Laurel for clarification: While we do accept submissions with graphic violence, we don't accept "snuff" - i.e. death & extreme torture with the aim of sexual titillation. We generally do not accept submissions of nonconsensual sex in which the "victim" gets absolutely no sort of thrill or enjoyment from the acts, or is seriously and /or permanently physically harmed/abused.
Click to expand...
 
disabused said:
Newbie female here.

I just read this in a reply from RejectReality in a previous thread "How rough":
"The second form generally says that stories where the victim gets no pleasure from the sex acts aren't going to be accepted."

Oh. Okay. That helps explain why in every story tagged non-consensual, mind control, BDSM, etc the chick ends up totally digging it. Yawn.

My searches here have lead me to believe that not only must every subjugated female enjoy the encounter, she must explicitly experience sexual gratification in every story. The story I would like to submit is first person "victim". She has her reasons for participating, but rarely is the result sexual gratification. Should I even bother?
Click to expand...

You'd need to think of a rather dirfferent, satisfactory, ending, wouldn't you?
I mean; withiout some satisfaction from the encounter, it's asimple Rape.
And rape is not funny.
 
Another question: Why does it always have to be a “she”? I have several plot lines for non-con where a male is in the clutches of a forced, humiliating, heterosexual encounter. And I’m fearing I’m a rare author doing this.
 
This actually seems to be a common discussion point on the forum, and the reasoning behind that rule doesn't seem to lead to it being implemented unconditionally. The site management needs to maintain the right to revoke stories that are/border on snuff.

But yeah, I've seen some stories that go very cruel with noncon. I think it might be easy to over exaggerate how much of a limitation it is.

Here's another thread that discusses this topic a lot:

http://forum.literotica.com/showthread.php?t=1416318
 
Charmolypi said:
Another question: Why does it always have to be a “she”? I have several plot lines for non-con where a male is in the clutches of a forced, humiliating, heterosexual encounter. And I’m fearing I’m a rare author doing this.
Click to expand...

The NC category is about 95% male-on-female, yeah, and I gather the readership has a lot of masculinity-so-fragile types who would probably be hostile to that sort of story. If you post that kind of content in NC - which is where it's supposed to go - you will probably get fairly low scores and some nasty comments from readers talking about how the guy should've beaten the woman up/etc.

But the flip-side: if you want to write it, you can bet there's somebody out there who wants to read it. If nobody else is writing that sort of content, then you will be the oasis in somebody's desert.
 
Charmolypi said:
Another question: Why does it always have to be a “she”? I have several plot lines for non-con where a male is in the clutches of a forced, humiliating, heterosexual encounter. And I’m fearing I’m a rare author doing this.
Click to expand...

It doesn't have to be. There are noncon stories with males in the forced role. It's just less common because it's a less common fantasy. Women who want to be more "dominant" seem to be more likely to be drawn to consensual BDSM fantasies.
 
Charmolypi said:
Another question: Why does it always have to be a “she”? I have several plot lines for non-con where a male is in the clutches of a forced, humiliating, heterosexual encounter. And I’m fearing I’m a rare author doing this.
Click to expand...

In real life, there is still a large dose of disbelief in the case of such an event.
Similarly a man being raped is still "a bit unlikely" (A year or two ago, a chap wandered into a police station late at night and asnnounced he had been raped and wished to report it. It took hours for the staff to stop laughing and a Doctor to be summoned.)
 
disabused said:
I just read this in a reply from RejectReality in a previous thread "How rough":
"The second form generally says that stories where the victim gets no pleasure from the sex acts aren't going to be accepted."
Click to expand...

Your question is answered by the "first form:" "We publish rape fantasies, not Rapist fantasies."

The second form is just how Laurel quickly distinguishes between Rape Fantasy and Rapist Fantasy.

There are exceptions to every rule and a well written story that pushes the envelope of what is normally permitted will get posted, while a poorly written story (one with spelling and grammar errors, for example) will get rejected even if the level of story-telling proficiency would be accepted if it didn't push limits.

Write the best story you can and submit it with a note explaining why there is no sexual gratification involved. If it does get rejected, there is always the option of posting elsewhere or rewriting.
 
Charmolypi said:
Another question: Why does it always have to be a “she”? I have several plot lines for non-con where a male is in the clutches of a forced, humiliating, heterosexual encounter. And I’m fearing I’m a rare author doing this.
Click to expand...

I have written a couple of Femdom stories like that. They attract abuse from self-styled 'real men'.
 
Charmolypi said:
Another question: Why does it always have to be a “she”? I have several plot lines for non-con where a male is in the clutches of a forced, humiliating, heterosexual encounter. And I’m fearing I’m a rare author doing this.
Click to expand...

You are. And so am I.
 
Handley_Page said:
In real life, there is still a large dose of disbelief in the case of such an event.
Similarly a man being raped is still "a bit unlikely" (A year or two ago, a chap wandered into a police station late at night and asnnounced he had been raped and wished to report it. It took hours for the staff to stop laughing and a Doctor to be summoned.)
Click to expand...

Oh gosh, I hadn’t thought of the disbelief from the less progressive types. Now this feels a bit sad.
 
Disabused, as a man I do not like stories where the female is non-consensual and in particular where she “. . . ends up totally digging it.”

Charmolypi, a very good question “Why does it always have to be a ‘she’?” I like the idea of switched gender roles and I feel that “. . . a male who is in the clutches of a forced, humiliating, heterosexual encounter” is such a story and I feel a creative author would be able to make such a story believable.

Harold, I feel that rape fantasies where the woman ends up enjoying it are “Rapist fantasies.”

Moonlight and Roses,
 
MoonlightandRoses said:
Harold, I feel that rape fantasies where the woman ends up enjoying it are “Rapist fantasies.”

Moonlight and Roses,
Click to expand...

Even when they're written by women? Really, the author's motivation isn't what we're talking about.

It's a matter of whether ( in Laurel's opinion ) the story primarily appeals to people who are excited by the fantasy of being taken, or primarily appeals to people excited by the fantasy of raping someone.
 
MoonlightandRoses said:
Disabused, as a man I do not like stories where the female is non-consensual and in particular where she “. . . ends up totally digging it.”

Charmolypi, a very good question “Why does it always have to be a ‘she’?” I like the idea of switched gender roles and I feel that “. . . a male who is in the clutches of a forced, humiliating, heterosexual encounter” is such a story and I feel a creative author would be able to make such a story believable.

Harold, I feel that rape fantasies where the woman ends up enjoying it are “Rapist fantasies.”

Moonlight and Roses,
Click to expand...

A woman fantasizing about rape is a rape fantasy. They are enjoying the fantasy from the point of the victim, turned on by imagining it happening to them, the loss of control,. the rough sex etc...while of course knowing full well they would never want it in real life.

A man enjoying a rape story is enjoying it from the POV of the 'attacker' they are getting off on being the one forcing and hurting the woman. That is a rapist fantasy.
 
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Lovecraft, I responded, in a simple way, to Harold having written the quote "We publish rape fantasies, not Rapist fantasies." Based on what you wrote whether a fantasy is a rape fantasy or a rapist fantasy is determined by the POV of the reader, so any rape fantasy could become a rapist fantasy and therefore it would be impossible to publish a rape fantasy without publishing a rapist fantasy, which is what I meant by my statement to Harold. Thank you for allowing me to explain that.

Moonlight and Roses,
 
Thinking more about this I feel that the best way to keep a rape or a sexual abuse fantasy from being seen, by some, as a rapist or a abuser fantasy would not be that the woman ends up enjoying it, but that the rapist or the abuser suffers at the end because of the rape or the abuse.

Moonlight and Roses,
 
I'm actually dancing around a "she doesn't like it" scene in my next story; but its a fantasy, and not a normal story, so she gets her revenge in the end.

But its hard to write. I hate it (I've been putting it off for weeks tbh), I'm sure the readers will hate it. That's why there isn't any of it around. I'm only doing it cause I feel it'll make me a better writer.
 
I’m still interested in Charmolypi’s question “Why does it always have to be a ‘she’?” I like the idea of gender role switching and having the male be the non-consensual one does that. One way to make that more believable would be to set the story in the future or in some fantasy world. On the other hand I do not like presenting the woman or at least the primary female character in too negative a light. A way to avoid this is to have the male captured by “bad women” and then be saved by the “good woman” the main protagonist. Another way would have the non-consensual behavior being required by some unknown agency so that even if the women enjoy it or feel guilty for enjoying it they are not causing it. Further, is the idea of “semi-non-consensual” where the man is paid in some way to engage in behavior he would not otherwise engage in. Lastly, I am not so much interested in sex in stories as what might be called “one-sided nudity,” which in this case would mean that only men are nude.

Whimsical, I commend you for trying to write a difficult story in order to make yourself a better writer.

Moonlight and Roses,
 
disabused said:
Newbie female here.

I just read this in a reply from RejectReality in a previous thread "How rough":
"The second form generally says that stories where the victim gets no pleasure from the sex acts aren't going to be accepted."

Oh. Okay. That helps explain why in every story tagged non-consensual, mind control, BDSM, etc the chick ends up totally digging it. Yawn.

My searches here have lead me to believe that not only must every subjugated female enjoy the encounter, she must explicitly experience sexual gratification in every story. The story I would like to submit is first person "victim". She has her reasons for participating, but rarely is the result sexual gratification. Should I even bother?

We recognize that people have fantasies that they would not enjoy in reality. Why must every such story here include an admission that she does, in fact get off on, for instance, humiliation? To have to admit it is, well, humiliating!
Click to expand...


The short answer to this question, I think, is that this is not a short story site, it's an erotic story site. People want stories that are erotic (for the most part -- there are nonerotic stories posted here too, but they are the minority). For most people, if someone's not enjoying the activity being engaged in in the story, it's not erotic. I can't speak for all people on that, but I can speak for myself and I think most feel that way. Rape is a common fantasy. It turns some women on to think about being raped. Almost no one, man or woman, would want to be raped in real life, but many enjoy the fantasy, and that fantasy involves enjoyment of it.

A story about rape in which the victim does not get off on it in some way might be more realistic, and it might be a really good story, but it would not, for many, be erotic (unless it is told from the rapist's point of view and the rapist enjoys it).

If you have a good story to tell from the victim's point of view, and she does not, by the end, in some way enjoy the activity of which she is a victim, you should go ahead and post it, but don't be surprised if many on this site don't think it's erotic, and therefore prefer other kinds of stories.
 
MoonlightandRoses said:
Lovecraft, I responded, in a simple way, to Harold having written the quote "We publish rape fantasies, not Rapist fantasies." Based on what you wrote whether a fantasy is a rape fantasy or a rapist fantasy is determined by the POV of the reader, so any rape fantasy could become a rapist fantasy and therefore it would be impossible to publish a rape fantasy without publishing a rapist fantasy, which is what I meant by my statement to Harold. Thank you for allowing me to explain that.

Moonlight and Roses,
Click to expand...

I don't think this is accurate. Whether or not a story is a rape fantasy or a rapist fantasy depends on the point of view of the narrator or chief protagonist, not the point of view of the reader. A rape fantasy story focuses on the point of view of the victim, female or male, where the rape is experienced as being in some way an erotic experience for the victim. A rapist fantasy focuses on the fictional rapist's erotic experience of the act of rape.

It's true that different types of readers might have different reactions to the same story, but that's not primarily what determines the nature of the story.
 
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