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Old Today, 07:51 PM   #476
KimGordon67
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What that suggests to me is areas where people are known get shot, bludgeoned and stabbed regularly, they tend to arm themselves.

The reverse makes no sense at all. More armed citizens emboldens criminals? I think not.
In most countries in the world, you can't just 'decide to arm yourself' because you happen to live in a high crime area. I think that's a fairly long bow you're drawing there.

The far simpler explanation seems to me to be more armed citizens = more guns = more people killing each other.
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Old Today, 08:16 PM   #477
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Originally Posted by KimGordon67 View Post
The far simpler explanation seems to me to be more armed citizens = more guns = more people killing each other.
That's almost Copernicus-level thought. Heliocentric! It leaves out all the epicycles, the statistical games played with subgroups. "But if we factor in all the racial-economic-social criteria and parms, we get this result I like..."

Yeah, sure. The simple equation: more firearms ==> more homicides. Since USA isn't about to reduce firearm levels anytime soon, now is a good time to invest in hospital chains with large emergency rooms. And in undertakers.
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Old Today, 08:22 PM   #478
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KimGordon67 View Post
In most countries in the world, you can't just 'decide to arm yourself' because you happen to live in a high crime area. I think that's a fairly long bow you're drawing there.

The far <less logical..fyp, yw> explanation seems to me to be more armed citizens = more guns = more people killing each other.
If the GUNS are magically inspiring people to kill other people, why aren't they using the GUNS to kill with?!??
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Old Today, 08:36 PM   #479
KimGordon67
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If the GUNS are magically inspiring people to kill other people, why aren't they using the GUNS to kill with?!??
They are. My reading of that link is that the increased homicide rates are explained by the greater number of gun-related deaths.
"We found that states with higher levels of household gun ownership had higher rates of firearm homicide and overall homicide. This relationship held for both genders and all age groups, after accounting for rates of aggravated assault, robbery, unemployment, urbanization, alcohol consumption, and resource deprivation (e.g., poverty). There was no association between gun prevalence and non-firearm homicide."
This suggests that non-gun-related homicide stays relatively similar regardless of levels of gun ownership - what increases overall homicide rates in states with high levels of gun ownership is gun-related homicides.
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Old Today, 08:41 PM   #480
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The only way to control guns is to get rid of the people...
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Old Today, 08:56 PM   #481
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Do you derive some sort of sexual satisfaction from circular arguments?

That's the opposite of what your previous statement said about increases in ALL homocides and not JUST gun homocides.

We already have a Phrodeau to cherry-pick anti-gun nut sponsered "studies" and to provide meaningless anecdotes involving misuse of guns while ignoring each and every news clipping about a gun being used in defense.

We get it, you hate guns. Lots of people in America hate guns too. They aren't going to get their way now, or ever. I'm glad about that. I'm glad that I live in a state where I can walk into a gun store today, purchase a gun, ammunition, and a concealed holster, load the magazine, insert it into the gun, conceal it on my person, and walk out of the gun store completely legally.

I worry not at all about any of my fellow citizens who are permitted to do just that if they are not felons doing that.

you like statistics that prove your point and you completely ignore any and all statistics that don't. We are a large metropolitan area adjacent to Los Angeles. We are now larger geographically than Los Angeles although we have less people. You are more likely to be shot in Los Angeles with heavy gun restrictions then you are in Phoenix Arizona with no gun restriction of any sort. We have just as many impoverished people as they have in LA probably more as expressed as a percentage since our wages are lower and our cost of living is lower.

So, you go ahead and quake with fear on my behalf from thousands of miles away and remember the LA and Chicago are more dangerous than where I live in the home of gun nuts.
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Old Today, 09:00 PM   #482
KimGordon67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Que View Post
Do you derive some sort of sexual satisfaction from circular arguments?

That's the opposite of what your previous statement said about increases in ALL homocides and not JUST gun homocides.
Gun homicides are a sub-set of all homicides. Clearly, higher levels of gun ownership will result in a greater number of gun-related homicides. Your prior argument was that those homicides would have happened anyway, by some other means. These data would tend to suggest otherwise:
  1. in areas marked by high levels of gun ownership, there seems to be little change in non-gun related homicide levels. So knives and blunt instruments are being used at the same rate.
  2. in areas marked by high levels of gun ownership, there are more gun-related homicides. Point 1 above suggests they aren't replace knives/blunt instrument homicides - they're additional.
  3. as a result the overall level of homicide increases.
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