Stupid (but sincere) Questions about the USA

seela said:

The credit-debit discussion is interesting. I only use debit in my day to day life. I use credit basically only abroad and for buying stuff online. I find tracking debit purchases every bit as easy as tracking credit purchases, for both cases can see everything online. I also don't like the idea of potentially accumulating debt, so I stick with debit and only use credit if debit for some reason is not a possibility. I even hate my student loan (whopping 2000 euros).

Question du jour:

Voter registration. Why is it needed? Are there no registers of citizens where they could check who's allowed to vote and who isn't? Do you have to register only once and then you can vote in all elections for the rest of your life or do you have to register for each election separately? I assume you at least have to register again if you move to another state, but how about for national elections?

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Registering to vote shouldn't be necessary, except to prove you live in a certain district. A valid driver's license or some other official photo ID should be enough to prove who you are and where you live. Voter fraud is just too easy. Without some means of identification, somebody can vote in one district, then go to another and vote again.

A driver's license would be enough for those who drive, but there are some people who don't drive and they would need to be identified. Both parties should be for it and make it easy for someone to acquire this necessary ID, even if it means going house to house with the necessary equipment to make the ID while there. It would defeat the whole purpose to make it difficult to get an official photo ID.

seela said:

The credit-debit discussion is interesting. I only use debit in my day to day life. I use credit basically only abroad and for buying stuff online. I find tracking debit purchases every bit as easy as tracking credit purchases, for both cases can see everything online. I also don't like the idea of potentially accumulating debt, so I stick with debit and only use credit if debit for some reason is not a possibility. I even hate my student loan (whopping 2000 euros).

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Tracking with debit is as easy as credit card. If theres's a problem with a CC the company will fix the problem (take the charge off your bill), whereas if your bank account is hacked you potentially lose money.

As long as you pay off the CC each month debt is not a problem. It does require exercising self control. Not a problem in my case unless we're talking shoes.

Voting. In Texas we're required to register. But I can't remember if its for city, county, or what.

seela said:

The credit-debit discussion is interesting. I only use debit in my day to day life. I use credit basically only abroad and for buying stuff online. I find tracking debit purchases every bit as easy as tracking credit purchases, for both cases can see everything online. I also don't like the idea of potentially accumulating debt, so I stick with debit and only use credit if debit for some reason is not a possibility. I even hate my student loan (whopping 2000 euros).

Question du jour:

Voter registration. Why is it needed? Are there no registers of citizens where they could check who's allowed to vote and who isn't? Do you have to register only once and then you can vote in all elections for the rest of your life or do you have to register for each election separately? I assume you at least have to register again if you move to another state, but how about for national elections?

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Oh, that's a cute little students loan! I do my best to forget the size of mine.
This reminds me of a question I should ask here:

How do people pay for their education in the US?
I know there are scholarships for good students and good athletes. Are these options just for those who can't pay otherwise or can anyone get them?
What do people who don't belong to those groups do? I guess you could pay your way? Does this bring some kind of taxreduction or is there any other kind of stimulation to make people spend their money on education?

IrisAlthea said:

Oh, that's a cute little students loan! I do my best to forget the size of mine.
This reminds me of a question I should ask here:

How do people pay for their education in the US?
I know there are scholarships for good students and good athletes. Are these options just for those who can't pay otherwise or can anyone get them?
What do people who don't belong to those groups do? I guess you could pay your way? Does this bring some kind of taxreduction or is there any other kind of stimulation to make people spend their money on education?

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There's a combination of all those things. There are tax credits, lots of scholarships for people pursuing specific majors (and a host of other “specialty" scholarships), and government programs of grants and low-cost loans. The unfortunate thing is, the cost of higher education had been riding so fast, it's been outpacing the ability of many to pay for education.

Perhaps the most annoying factor about higher education, for me, smart, is the fact that the highest paid employee at many universities isn't a faculty member, it's the football coach! In some states, they're the highest-paid public employee in the state, even higher than the state's governor!

IrisAlthea said:

Oh, that's a cute little students loan! I do my best to forget the size of mine.
This reminds me of a question I should ask here:

How do people pay for their education in the US?
I know there are scholarships for good students and good athletes. Are these options just for those who can't pay otherwise or can anyone get them?
What do people who don't belong to those groups do? I guess you could pay your way? Does this bring some kind of tax reduction or is there any other kind of stimulation to make people spend their money on education?

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We were just talking about this the other night. When I went to college I was able to cover about half the cost of my expenses with summer work in a local factory. The balance came from a small loan and a scholarship. Today it would be impossible for someone to do the same thing at the same school as college and university costs have far outstripped the general rate of inflation since then.

We just finished putting our third and final child through college. All three of our children received some scholarship aid and some low-cost government-guaranteed student loans. We picked up the difference, which was not insubstantial but also we got to eat fairly well throughout and weren't forced to move into a two-space refrigerator box.

Most large private schools and many larger public universities have endowments of assets so large that they could provide a completely free education to everyone, but it doesn't actually work that way. Most schools that have the highest costs also are able to provide the largest amounts of aid. Within a certain margin of error, it would cost a child of a typical middle-income family about as much to attend Harvard as the University of Illinois or a similarly competitive-admission school. All families with college students seeking aid of any kind are required to file a federal statement of income and need that is then analyzed for purposes of assigning financial aid. Some families qualify for pretty generous amounts of help and some do not. Our children got a fair amount of aid. I recall a family in a high school where I taught that could not qualify for a single dime of financial aid, even though they had a set of triplets who all graduated high school at the same time. Their income was clearly a good bit higher than mine has ever been.

seela said:

Question du jour:

Voter registration. Why is it needed? Are there no registers of citizens where they could check who's allowed to vote and who isn't? Do you have to register only once and then you can vote in all elections for the rest of your life or do you have to register for each election separately? I assume you at least have to register again if you move to another state, but how about for national elections?

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At age 18 we register to vote based on our place of residence. The records created by these registrations are kept by the pertinent county. On election day, each locale has its own voting place that is equipped with a list of all persons registered to vote in that locale. When we arrive to vote, we give our names and might be asked to verify our address. We then sign a register and our signature is checked against the one we provided when we registered to vote. That is the way things work in most states in the U.S.

In some states recently, and it's notable that all of these states are governed by Republican-controlled legislatures, some new rules have been enacted into law requiring a second proof of identification to be made available on the day when one votes. Often, the same legislation that was used to create the secondary identification process also included measures to reduce the amount of time that polling places are open, and, predictably, the limits generally make it harder for poor and working class people to vote. Since the poor and working classes in America generally vote for candidates from the Democratic party, it's pretty clear that these laws requiring secondary identification are aimed at improving the chances of Republican candidates.

IrisAlthea said:

How do people pay for their education in the US?
I know there are scholarships for good students and good athletes. Are these options just for those who can't pay otherwise or can anyone get them?
What do people who don't belong to those groups do? I guess you could pay your way? Does this bring some kind of taxreduction or is there any other kind of stimulation to make people spend their money on education?

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For Associates (2 year) and Bachelor's (4 year) degrees there are scholarships, grants, and loans. Scholarships can be based on anything: grades, race, ethnicity, sports, button sorting, you name it. Grants (free money) are based on financial need. Loans are either government subsidized (cheapest rate) or non-subsidized (cheap).

Masters degrees still have scholarships, though less are available. No grants, and loans are of the non-subisdized variety.

Ph.D.s you usually get a stipend. So in effect, they're paying you. You also don't have to pay social security and most places pay for your health insurance. Stipend amounts vary. The sciences are pushing 30k these days, but something like literature is much lower. (I knew someone who was getting 16k about 5 years ago.)

Voting requirements by state.

http://www.ncsl.org/research/elections-and-campaigns/voter-id.aspx#map

Another question - I presume that 'carrying concealed' means having a weapon but hidden from view but am I right in thinking that is sometimes illegal but having a weapon on show is ok? Why is there a distinction?

Some states are again different in this law.

Where permitted to carry a weapon*, some states state that you MUST conceal a weapon, while other states are against concealed weapons. Likewise, open-carry is likewise sometimes permitted and vice versa. Some states (to carry a weapon) you HAVE to have a concealed weapon permit, while an open-carry permit is illegal.

*Weapons can include knifes, pepper spray, and in that regard, sometimes the size of the weapon constitutes legality, illegality or if a permit is even required.

Edit: Sorry, I missed that it was a two part question. States that mandate a carried weapon to be concealed generally believe that exhibition of a weapon is an aggressive posture. While they won't deny the constitutional right to bear arms, they mandate that you must conceal it so as not to provoke violence.

In other states, they feel that concealing a weapon is secretive and suspect that concealing a weapon is motivated by criminal behavior. So in those states, concealing a weapon is a higher level of permit, whereas in other states you MUST conceal a weapon and thus a concealed permit is standard.

In affect, if you understand the Babylon 5 analogy, some believe in the Mimbari way, to openly display their weapons on first meeting, while others see it as aggressive, thus the difference between concealed and open-carry.


Tell me, do we (Americans) totally look like a monkey fucking a football in regards to how we can't get along with ourselves let alone with the rest of the world?

I'm not talking about the politicians, but the people, ourselves who are so strongly attached to our political aims.

LallyH said:

Another question - I presume that 'carrying concealed' means having a weapon but hidden from view but am I right in thinking that is sometimes illegal but having a weapon on show is ok? Why is there a distinction?

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Concealed weapons are allowed where people think it's a good idea, because you have to treat everyone with the respect as if they would be armed, because they could be armed.

Concealed weapons are forbidden where people think that concealed weapons cause more trouble than solve anything, as it makes it more difficult for law enforcement and other people to verify that someone is unarmed.

If you haven't picked up on it yet, we Americans tend to fetishize the notion of local control. As in all pursuits, some fetishize this to a greater extent than others. We have our vanillas and our radical pain sluts, so to speak.

For about the first 100 years of our existence it was mosrt common to use the construction "The United States ARE..." hereas from not long after the conclusion of our Civil War, it became the general practice to say "The United States IS..." Some, and I believe they are largely correct, say this is principally due to the work of President Lincoln who, despite the actions of some of the states, never stopped seeing all of the states as a single union.

LallyH said:

Another question - I presume that 'carrying concealed' means having a weapon but hidden from view but am I right in thinking that is sometimes illegal but having a weapon on show is ok? Why is there a distinction?

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This is a very difficult question to answer and it falls to local jurisdiction, in most cases (see links). Some states are trying to pass laws that will override any lesser community's law altering the state code.

In the state of Kansas, open carry is legal, but some cities and counties are trying to make it illegal in their area. The governor recently signed a bill that makes any local civic law invalid. The desire is to make laws more uniform throughout the state.

But, if you check the links, both laws vary by state as to what they define as "open carry" or "concealed carry". Defining "open carry", some states say a weapon must be totally visible. Some define it as the weapon being partially visible. Some go as far as stating if the weapon can be loaded and then go as far as to say what defines being loaded...such as having a bullet in the chamber or just a magazine full of bullets. Some define loaded as both bullets and weapon being carried on the person. That would mean the bullets could be in your pocket and not in the weapon at all.

In a city such as Kansas City, where two states are involved, one can be legal in one part of the city and illegal in another. Within a short drive, you can break several laws.

Incidentally, Missouri had a concealed carry law before Kansas did. Actually, it was several years before, because Kansas was one of the last states to legalize concealed carry. The Governor at the time said it was for the safety of the citizens of Kansas that they didn't pass such a law.

But, if you think about it, because Kansas City boarders Missouri and Kansas and Missouri had a concealed carry law in place, where do you think it would be the safest part of town for someone to rob someone at gunpoint? Any self respecting criminal would stay away from the Missouri side of town, because they wouldn't know if the person they were robbing was armed or not. The odds were in their favor on the Kansas side, however, because it was illegal for honest people to carry a concealed weapon.

So, the Governor's intentions of trying to make it safer for the citizens of the state by vetoing any concealed carry law were actually making it less safe for the people in some areas of the state, such as Kansas City. Several times the law passed, but was always vetoed by the governor. Finally in 2007, there were enough votes in the senate and house to override the governor's veto and from that point on the odds were against the criminals equally in both Kansas and Missouri.

Concealed Carry by state

Open carry by state

Loverskitten said:

This is not true. City to city laws could only get you a ticket but differing State laws could certainly get you arrested like concealed/open carry weapon laws, age of consent, drug laws, and in some states physician assisted suicide is legal, certainly not all. Those are a few major ones.

For example prostitution is a law that varies by county (in Nevada), and you certainly will get arrested for it or solicitation.

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So true! I did not think about that aspect of it. As more and more states legalize marijuana, change gun laws etc, the disparities will only grow.

seela said:

Question du jour:

Voter registration. Why is it needed? Are there no registers of citizens where they could check who's allowed to vote and who isn't? Do you have to register only once and then you can vote in all elections for the rest of your life or do you have to register for each election separately? I assume you at least have to register again if you move to another state, but how about for national elections?

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Another thing about voter registration and driver license registration - in my county in Texas the County Court uses these two registration lists to call people up to serve on juries. We get paid to serve, but it's a pittance...

So you don't have any "central (federal?) agency", that would keep records of citizens? Or is it simply not used for the elections? MWY's point about dems and reps and providing identification was interesting. That is exactly the kind of thing I never would have figured out on my own.

Here we can't vote without ID, but no registration is needed. A month or so before everyone eligible to vote gets a notification about the election. There you find the time and place where you're supposed to go vote. You can also vote beforehand at post offices and some libraries, that's usually two weeks before the election. You can vote beforehand wherever you want, not only in your own voting district, but of course you can only choose from the candidates of your own voting district even then.

--

I've sometimes checked the costs of studying in the USA in various states and colleges. It's really insane how much you have to pay, even for those non Ivy League schools, if you get no scholarships and are from another state. Is it common not to go to school because you can't pay for it?

Here you pay around 100-120 euros a year. For that you get a student ID, which grants you a lot of discounts, so if you for example use the public transport, you pretty much end up making money. You also get access to the university's medical center, where you can see a doctor or a dentist either for free or for 8 euros (for dentists). When I broke my wrist the whole thing was handled there, so I didn't have to pay anything for seeing the doctor and having X rays and CT scans taken.

Students also get a monthly grant from the state. It's 300 euros, plus another 200 euros if your living costs are over 252 euros. On top of that you can get an interest free student loan, 300 euros a month. You can get the grant and loan for 55 months. For each month that you decide to take the grant, you can make about 650 euros.

Basically all people graduate with master's here.

seela said:

So you don't have any "central (federal?) agency", that would keep records of citizens? Or is it simply not used for the elections? MWY's point about dems and reps and providing identification was interesting. That is exactly the kind of thing I never would have figured out on my own.

Here we can't vote without ID, but no registration is needed. A month or so before everyone eligible to vote gets a notification about the election. There you find the time and place where you're supposed to go vote. You can also vote beforehand at post offices and some libraries, that's usually two weeks before the election. You can vote beforehand wherever you want, not only in your own voting district, but of course you can only choose from the candidates of your own voting district even then.

--

I've sometimes checked the costs of studying in the USA in various states and colleges. It's really insane how much you have to pay, even for those non Ivy League schools, if you get no scholarships and are from another state. Is it common not to go to school because you can't pay for it?

Here you pay around 100-120 euros a year. For that you get a student ID, which grants you a lot of discounts, so if you for example use the public transport, you pretty much end up making money. You also get access to the university's medical center, where you can see a doctor or a dentist either for free or for 8 euros (for dentists). When I broke my wrist the whole thing was handled there, so I didn't have to pay anything for seeing the doctor and having X rays and CT scans taken.

Students also get a monthly grant from the state. It's 300 euros, plus another 200 euros if your living costs are over 252 euros. On top of that you can get an interest free student loan, 300 euros a month. You can get the grant and loan for 55 months. For each month that you decide to take the grant, you can make about 650 euros.

Basically all people graduate with master's here.

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Check out the actual laws about Identification for voting.

http://www.ncsl.org/research/elections-and-campaigns/voter-id.aspx#map

All these laws seem reasonable enough, unless you consider the kind of person who might not be indigent or religiously objecting, but might be burdened unduly by having to come back within five days to back up an affidavit with a photo ID they may not have updated that year. Consider that they may live in bumfuck, and be driven to a polling place by an overextended relative in the first place.

From a disability rights perspective, this blows. A handful of fraudulent votes can only do so much damage. Suppress one valid voter's rights and you're no longer living up to the promise of being a democracy.

I'd urge those outside the States to note how few places have these kinds of laws, and to also note that ID laws have been rejected in certain places by referendum (popular vote.)

seela said:

Is it common not to go to school because you can't pay for it?

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This is why I did not go to college. It's unaffordable. Other people just get student loans and then drown in debt. It's not a good set up.

seela said:

I've sometimes checked the costs of studying in the USA in various states and colleges. It's really insane how much you have to pay, even for those non Ivy League schools, if you get no scholarships and are from another state. Is it common not to go to school because you can't pay for it?

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The out-of-state tuition laws are temporary. Once you've lived in the new state a year (I think) you have in-state status.

It sounds like you have a much better deal educationally. Many people here don't go beyond high school. And many that do a 4 year degree find themselves with astronomical school debt and not great job prospects. In the past, a bachelor's degree alone, and in any subject, was enough to secure entry into a good job. These days not so much. Lots of people get soft science or humanities degrees, which are pretty worthless in the job market unless you intend to go for a higher degree.

I've heard talk (not sure if true) that counseling for college may be implemented in high schools. So many rush to get a college degree - any degree - thinking its the next step for professional success. When the truth is, it can land you in a huge financial mess with no good job options.

That said, some bachelor degrees are a more than adequate entry point. Four year engineering degrees typically net you decent money. And, of course if you want to purse a particular field you may need a degree. What level required is dependent on the field.

Netzach said:

All these laws seem reasonable enough, unless you consider the kind of person who might not be indigent or religiously objecting, but might be burdened unduly by having to come back within five days to back up an affidavit with a photo ID they may not have updated that year. Consider that they may live in bumfuck, and be driven to a polling place by an overextended relative in the first place.

From a disability rights perspective, this blows. A handful of fraudulent votes can only do so much damage. Suppress one valid voter's rights and you're no longer living up to the promise of being a democracy.

I'd urge those outside the States to note how few places have these kinds of laws, and to also note that ID laws have been rejected in certain places by referendum (popular vote.)

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Yes, many of the laws SEEM reasonable, in the same way that "if you're not doing anything illegal, why are you worried about your phone calls being monitored" seems reasonable. Beware the thief who dresses in the clothing of the good and pure.

Thanks everyone for the information!

Here there are no tuition fees for citizens of EU/EEA/ Switzerland, for PhD students or for exchange students.
For the living costs duringthe student years there is a grant from the state. This is not enough unless you can live with your parents and get some support there too. Most people also make use of the system for student loans financed by the goverment.
Grants and loans are only for the academic year which means that students need to find a job during the summer unless they have other means of support. If you make too much you will get less grant and less loan. Your parents finances on the other hand have no influence on how much grants and loan you'll get.

Netzach said:

All these laws seem reasonable enough, unless you consider the kind of person who might not be indigent or religiously objecting, but might be burdened unduly by having to come back within five days to back up an affidavit with a photo ID they may not have updated that year. Consider that they may live in bumfuck, and be driven to a polling place by an overextended relative in the first place.

From a disability rights perspective, this blows. A handful of fraudulent votes can only do so much damage. Suppress one valid voter's rights and you're no longer living up to the promise of being a democracy.

I'd urge those outside the States to note how few places have these kinds of laws, and to also note that ID laws have been rejected in certain places by referendum (popular vote.)

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Here you can vote at any post office a few weeks before election day.
Since 2006 you need an Oficiall photo ID, drivers license, passport or someone with that kind of ID who can vouch for you.

Endless_Night said:

The out-of-state tuition laws are temporary. Once you've lived in the new state a year (I think) you have in-state status.

It sounds like you have a much better deal educationally. Many people here don't go beyond high school. And many that do a 4 year degree find themselves with astronomical school debt and not great job prospects. In the past, a bachelor's degree alone, and in any subject, was enough to secure entry into a good job. These days not so much. Lots of people get soft science or humanities degrees, which are pretty worthless in the job market unless you intend to go for a higher degree.

I've heard talk (not sure if true) that counseling for college may be implemented in high schools. So many rush to get a college degree - any degree - thinking its the next step for professional success. When the truth is, it can land you in a huge financial mess with no good job options.

That said, some bachelor degrees are a more than adequate entry point. Four year engineering degrees typically net you decent money. And, of course if you want to purse a particular field you may need a degree. What level required is dependent on the field.

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Here we have the problem that employers tend to want very high education for all jobs.
Some companies have had problemes when they opened sites in other countries and found that the locals with a Master of Science in Engineering are less than thrilled to work as mechanics.

IrisAlthea said:

Thanks everyone for the information!

Here there are no tuition fees for citizens of EU/EEA/ Switzerland, for PhD students or for exchange students.

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Yep. It's the same here. I worded it in a funny way in my previous post when I said we have to pay 100-120 euros per academic year. It's not for the university, so we don't have to pay for tuition. The money goes to the student body, but it's mandatory nevertheless. But like I mentioned, you get so many discounts that it's a good deal to pay for it.

ETA: And it's possible to vote without an ID if you can get somebody, preferably a relative, with an ID to vouch for you.

seela said:

Yep. It's the same here. I worded it in a funny way in my previous post when I said we have to pay 100-120 euros per academic year. It's not for the university, so we don't have to pay for tuition. The money goes to the student body, but it's mandatory nevertheless. But like I mentioned, you get so many discounts that it's a good deal to pay for it.

ETA: And it's possible to vote without an ID if you can get somebody, preferably a relative, with an ID to vouch for you.

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Membership in the student body was mandatory here too until a few years ago. I think it was even brought before the EU Court of Human Rights or something like that.
Totally worth the money though, if you're a full time student.

DVS said:

Shhhhh, the NSA is probably listening already.

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The NSA employs psychics. They knew what you were going to write before you posted it.

seela said:

So you don't have any "central (federal?) agency", that would keep records of citizens? Or is it simply not used for the elections? MWY's point about dems and reps and providing identification was interesting. That is exactly the kind of thing I never would have figured out on my own.

Here we can't vote without ID, but no registration is needed. A month or so before everyone eligible to vote gets a notification about the election. There you find the time and place where you're supposed to go vote. You can also vote beforehand at post offices and some libraries, that's usually two weeks before the election. You can vote beforehand wherever you want, not only in your own voting district, but of course you can only choose from the candidates of your own voting district even then.

--

I've sometimes checked the costs of studying in the USA in various states and colleges. It's really insane how much you have to pay, even for those non Ivy League schools, if you get no scholarships and are from another state. Is it common not to go to school because you can't pay for it?

Here you pay around 100-120 euros a year. For that you get a student ID, which grants you a lot of discounts, so if you for example use the public transport, you pretty much end up making money. You also get access to the university's medical center, where you can see a doctor or a dentist either for free or for 8 euros (for dentists). When I broke my wrist the whole thing was handled there, so I didn't have to pay anything for seeing the doctor and having X rays and CT scans taken.

Students also get a monthly grant from the state. It's 300 euros, plus another 200 euros if your living costs are over 252 euros. On top of that you can get an interest free student loan, 300 euros a month. You can get the grant and loan for 55 months. For each month that you decide to take the grant, you can make about 650 euros.

Basically all people graduate with master's here.

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In Illinois its illegal to ask for proof of who you are at the voting polls. (Yea.. that makes sense right?)

No wonder the big joke in Chicago is how many dead people are voting.

The motto is also "Vote early and often."