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WilliamButlerYeats (The other)

twelveoone said:
bfagsst knows some of the mechanics
fails the diagnostics

they will always fail the diagnostics, the diagnostics are contingent on a concern for the reader. reader is paramount.
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bfagsst doesn't read because I suspect he thought I said I hate WilliamBYeats(the other) rather than the bona fide William B Yeats. Yes, hate is hyperbole but when have I been shy of hyperbole?

Though my Plath poems could have upset him due to their blasphemy (and hyperbole).

However, I'm not sure why hyperbole can't be used as a device in the same way its used as a device in the visual arts and music.
 
bogusagain said:
bfagsst doesn't read because I suspect he thought I said I hate WilliamBYeats(the other) rather than the bona fide William B Yeats. Yes, hate is hyperbole but when have I been shy of hyperbole?

Though my Plath poems could have upset him due to their blasphemy (and hyperbole).

However, I'm not sure why hyperbole can't be used as a device in the same way its used as a device in the visual arts and music.
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If they used that term, it may have come from here:
Part of a comment I left.

Back to poetry, if some of this wasn't so damn good, I would accuse you of hyperbole. Well it does come close.

Hyberbole is excessive, it tends to not work (or anything excessive for that matter). Anything can be used as a device, somethings just work better. Chose with due consideration.

I think they just looked for the most likely to lash out at, Bog, you where the next in line. Where is fridayam?
I think what is bothering them (at the risk of sounding paranoid, and there is a game going on) is I am good at what I do, I'm an old vet, had a few lessons later from one of the best.

It is a shame, all closed loop feedback just feeds disaster. They are not bad, could be better, but if you can't trust other's comments, you do have to be a real fool to believe your own.
 
twelveoone said:
bfagsst knows some of the mechanics
fails the diagnostics

they will always fail the diagnostics, the diagnostics are contingent on a concern for the reader. reader is paramount.
Click to expand...

Reminds me for some reason of a quote by art critic Ernst Gombrich "the fault of the faultless." The dead hand of someone who knows how to do it and can do it but doesn't communicate. Knowledge, skill and technique aren't enough, work needs to create empathy in the audience. Any art should create a positive or negative response or a myriad in between, it shouldn't leave the audience or reader indifferent and that's what the dead hand does.
 
bflagsst said:
Read Joyce Mansour, any of the poems of Maria Martins, Bin Ramke. If you're honestly into prose-poetry there's Oni Buchanan, Richard Siken, not much else.
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Post-modernism has happened, you mightn't like it, you can even ignore it but it has still happened.
 
WilliamButlerYeats said:
My poetry's been bought and paid for. Sold just shy of 500 copies in a few years on amazon.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/1892451506/ref=aw_d_detail?pd=1&qid=1302190550&sr=8-1
Click to expand...
'
Just remembered but I meant to tell you, this has now sold in excess of 600 copies of Barking Dogs , an anthology of poems from people who wrote on Lit. A lot of hard work and touting around but hey, many famous poets don't sell that amount, even lucky to get print runs of a 1,000.

However, many of your hack poets, such as Adrian Henri, Adrain Mitchell, Brian Pattern, Roger McGough, who were ostracized by The Poetry Society for not being real poets (or was it old fashioned jealousy) sold in thousands, one anthology selling over 500,000 to become one of the best selling anthologies of all time. It's about speaking to your audience. It's pointless being the best poet in the world if are the only person who knows you are.

In fact, I might go punk and start a hack poetry review. The review for the poets, none poets or just anyone who can string a line and who aren't anal and think they know what poetry is and what it isn't.
 
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bogusagain said:
Post-modernism has happened, you mightn't like it, you can even ignore it but it has still happened.
Click to expand...

My poetry lives in a postmodern space(speaking of 'postmodern' as something makes me gag though) That's why you're lazy and I'm not. I know what your work resembles, you haven't read mine(bflagsst)

I've no self-control
over the way the light hits me,
or its shiver into electricity
when it's your time of day
and I'm bent toward your light
like a plant climbing
hand over fist and open;
you made me happy as I swam
organelle to organelle
and through the seaweed

Postmodernism in poetry is pretty much a joke. Surrealism and psych games is the furthest anyone's gone after the modern structures. It really just means what came after the destroyers of romanticism. Actually, Sylvia Plath and Dylan Thomas, Ginsberg, and unfortunately prose came after TS and EE Cummings. Sylvia Plath and Dylan Thomas both represent that partial return to romanticism, a heavy leaning on Robert Browning and the 19th Cen English. But they're no Robert Frost trying to continue the tradition, they're something fairly original, something past the 1920s and 30s fashion. Yeah, Dylan Thomas is a time traveler, not a surrealist during surrealism either.
 
bogusagain said:
'
Just remembered but I meant to tell you, this has now sold in excess of 600 copies of Barking Dogs , an anthology of poems from people who wrote on Lit. A lot of hard work and touting around but hey, many famous poets don't sell that amount, even lucky to get print runs of a 1,000.

However, many of your hack poets, such as Adrian Henri, Adrain Mitchell, Brian Pattern, Roger McGough, who were ostracized by The Poetry Society for not being real poets (or was it old fashioned jealousy) sold in thousands, one anthology selling over 500,000 to become one of the best selling anthologies of all time. It's about speaking to your audience. It's pointless being the best poet in the world if are the only person who knows you are.

In fact, I might go punk and start a hack poetry review. The review for the poets, none poets or just anyone who can string a line and who aren't anal and think they know what poetry is and what it isn't.
Click to expand...

i've been involved in 4 or five anthologies (one of which i was proud of) but have absolutely no idea of their sales numbers. i rather suspect the most suspicious one (when i first began submitting anything) would be the biggest seller, as it crammed bloody hundreds and hundreds of poems into its pages and probably sold at least four or five copies per poet. i didn't buy one. it was diabolical. and my own poem wasn't anything to brag about either!

sales figures really do little to impress me. and if you start a hack poetry review, i wanna hear about it! :cool:

i've also been in various print magazines and newspapers - again, no idea of the number of sales but the zine i am most delighted to be in is still going strong after i appeared with 3 poems in its inaugural copy.
 
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WilliamButlerYeats said:
Postmodernism in poetry is pretty much a joke.
Click to expand...

Post modernism is a joke duh! Just depends what meaning you put on joke but then again, any will do.


WilliamButlerYeats said:
Surrealism and psych games is the furthest anyone's gone after the modern structures. It really just means what came after the destroyers of romanticism.
Click to expand...

Didn't the modernists come before post modernists? Isn't post modernism a rejection of modernism after all?
 
WilliamButlerYeats said:
My poetry lives in a postmodern space(speaking of 'postmodern' as something makes me gag though) That's why you're lazy and I'm not. I know what your work resembles, you haven't read mine(bflagsst)

I've no self-control
over the way the light hits me,
or its shiver into electricity
when it's your time of day
and I'm bent toward your light
like a plant climbing
hand over fist and open;
you made me happy as I swam
organelle to organelle
and through the seaweed
Click to expand...

I won't defend myself against the charge of laziness as I am but I'm not sure what you mean when you say your poetry lives in a post modern space, it reads to me as very modernist and devoid of post modern jokes, irony, multirealities and dislocation. Your poems seem very polite and reverential to the art of poetry, hardly a post modernist stance of disblief and irreverence.

This is what I call post modernist

meat

the crystal ball above his head
was a means of producing light
illuminating the kitchen's sodden drudgery
his hand sliding easy over a liver
with a blade that could shave your teeth
surgically slicing the meat​
‘a full breakfast and a mug of tea, please.’

page three and her mammary glands
like swollen globes tipped with volcanoes

‘reconstruction involves tissue taken from the labia.’

more cuts
she winces
as she pictures
the blade
slicing her again​

I remember the eye of the bull and how it bulged with fear

my days in the abattoir and the spilling of guts into plastic bins

the flaying of skin as it was stripped off the carcass like an elastoplast

the indifference of death
as it passed on hooks
marked, cut and labeled
taking the dead weight
and stacking it in a pile

the barrels of blood
the floating clots
and the glug, glug, glug
as the vats were filled
with the brilliant pigment​

“bacon, sausage, black pudding, two eggs, beans and toast!”

sweat accumulating on the tip of his nose
dripped and salted the food on the stove
a marinade that ferments and bubbles up
odours diffused and absorbed by the room
the harsh light highlighted the shimmering heat
pearls of dew that coat the food like a sweat

a charred turd of processed meat
impaled on a fork gobs its fat
dribbles of saturates pool on the plate
marbling into a broken yoke
the congealed juices bedding like an alluvium
as my heart winced and took the strain

“enjoy it. animals have fucked and died for this.”

joke!​

her breasts had been full of milk, her belly full of life

her legs were spread
in an act of faith
as we took a hold of her
and he manipulated the forceps
braced himself and heaved

the guttural cry of pain
the suction of meat
separating from meat
the spewing of blood and mucus
in the stark white cell​

ketchup or brown sauce squeezed out like excretions

I braced myself and slurped a slop of stewed tea
tannin staining my tongue like rust
the metallic tasting residue dowsing my salty mouth
and eased through my gullet like bleach
retching free a bilious morsel
I belched life's sickly odour
 
chipbutty said:
i've been involved in 4 or five anthologies (one of which i was proud of) but have absolutely no idea of their sales numbers. i rather suspect the most suspicious one (when i first began submitting anything) would be the biggest seller, as it crammed bloody hundreds and hundreds of poems into its pages and probably sold at least four or five copies per poet. i didn't buy one. it was diabolical. and my own poem wasn't anything to brag about either!

sales figures really do little to impress me. and if you start a hack poetry review, i wanna hear about it! :cool:

i've also been in various print magazines and newspapers - again, no idea of the number of sales but the zine i am most delighted to be in is still going strong after i appeared with 3 poems in its inaugural copy.
Click to expand...

I think when it comes to anthologies or journals, you have to have a clear idea of the overal image you want to convey and the potential audience. Basically like any product you have to market it well, you can't just cobble something together and hope for the best. That's why I'm not impressed with WBY's figures because how many copies you sell is related to how much time you spend promoting your work.

When I first started out in visual art I thought promoting my work myself was akin to prostitution but failure to make any sort of impression and being hungry, lonely and depressed in my garret made me see the realuity, if you don't promote your own work, no one will do it for you unless they have a deep faith in your work or thay are ripping you off.

I made that comment about a hack journal as a throwaway line but since I said it, the idea has been growing on me. My daughter is an illustrator and graphic designer and she would take the burden of some of the work if I did decide to give it a try, though I think it would be a poetry and visual art journal.
 
Epmd607 said:
There's a lot of posturing, specifically in the newest Sylvia Plath series.


they ate you like an infestation
life feeding on life, turning in
on itself, no light penetrating
the chrysalis, in which your
nightmares morphed

every stanza resembles: "Maggotry maggotry, ho hum maggotry, and parasites too*of course I'm talking about people, cuz this is poetry!"
Click to expand...

Just something I want to clear up. Over the last month or so I read several biographies about Plath, though several read more like polemics than biographies. I read her three volumes of poetry over and over and read The Bell Jar, all again. Not the sign of someone who dismisses someone out of hand.

Though I do find her work somewhat irritating, you missed the point of the poems which might be one of their weaknesses but I doubt it in this case. The poems were really a criticism of the idolatry that surrounds her, the psychological necrophilia of the Plath death cult of which you, blagffsst and WBY appear to be members.
 
Now my lovelies can we expect another Revelation that this we is also someone else?
in this great game of multiple alts, perhaps that is why, they can't comment, although sometimes taking the time to comment on there own?
 
so, bogus, was anything i said of any help re 'hole'? i've been trying to do a little catching up on my reviewing as i am so busy now i barely get the time or have the right head on to do it. it's always an interesting process for me, working through a piece to see the whys of it. when i understand the whys better, it helps my own writing and improves perception when it comes to reading others' work as well. so all good stuff.
 
twelveoone said:
Now my lovelies can we expect another Revelation that this we is also someone else?
in this great game of multiple alts, perhaps that is why, they can't comment, although sometimes taking the time to comment on there own?
Click to expand...

i'm not convinced it's hydra :)


cerberus? ummm... mebbee
 
chipbutty said:
so, bogus, was anything i said of any help re 'hole'? i've been trying to do a little catching up on my reviewing as i am so busy now i barely get the time or have the right head on to do it. it's always an interesting process for me, working through a piece to see the whys of it. when i understand the whys better, it helps my own writing and improves perception when it comes to reading others' work as well. so all good stuff.
Click to expand...

I've sent you a private message Chip and yes, you comments have given me food for thought and thanks, they are appreciated.
 
Stop saying that I vote peoples poems down. I've voted maybe three times in the past few months. Two were fives and one was a three that I told the person about when I did it. I don't know why I keep interacting with you, I write good poems, you write meaningless nonsense comments and post new beffudling threads daily.
...
I'm fairly critical of sylvia plath the poet in my poems. Why should a poet be concerned with due or undue praise of another poet? Which is the reason I don't vote down poems on a shitty porn site. Which is the reason I don't vote for poems to begin with. Am I going to be a better poet if I receive ten positive votes or if I ever get my ten or so H's back? That's what Ahab doesn't get. He thinks he's doing something for poetry commenting his two bit nonsense every day.
 
twelveoone said:
Now my lovelies can we expect another Revelation that this we is also someone else?
in this great game of multiple alts, perhaps that is why, they can't comment, although sometimes taking the time to comment on there own?
Click to expand...

You're such a scumbag. I commented on your fucking mediocre poetry two weeks ago.
 
bflagsst said:
You're such a scumbag. I commented on your fucking mediocre poetry two weeks ago.
Click to expand...
war's over bflagsst, you can walk away in the knowledge I said your where better in four major areas, and meant it. I saw the comment, it dovetailed nicely with the anon's.
what was that you said before, everything (except one) I've wrote is forgettable.
I can live with it, fucking mediocre poetry, I can see your perception of it. reading and writing, nobody ever starts and arrives at the same place, I understand that. People play games. You don't like...I don't like...that's fine.
I just didn't understand your reaction to a pun (a5) I left as a comment, thought that was a little strange, another alt?
I bust my ass, leaving comments, I catch the flak goes along with the patrol, what has happened is just about everyone else has too, they don't deserve it.
Take a look over in new poems, sennelson, and GMM's, rather bizarre non specific comments at least no * in the header, what score do you think they left? There's the scumbag.
me, I just wander along, learning what I can, help a few.
 
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bflagsst said:
Stop saying that I vote peoples poems down. I've voted maybe three times in the past few months. Two were fives and one was a three that I told the person about when I did it. I don't know why I keep interacting with you, I write good poems, you write meaningless nonsense comments and post new beffudling threads daily.
...
I'm fairly critical of sylvia plath the poet in my poems. Why should a poet be concerned with due or undue praise of another poet? Which is the reason I don't vote down poems on a shitty porn site. Which is the reason I don't vote for poems to begin with. Am I going to be a better poet if I receive ten positive votes or if I ever get my ten or so H's back? That's what Ahab doesn't get. He thinks he's doing something for poetry commenting his two bit nonsense every day.
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One I never said that.
Two, I'm proud of you, keep up the good work.
Three, some of them are, but I've not seen much substance in yours.
Four, I hate to say this:rolleyes:, but that puts you in rather mediocre company, namely me.
 
chipbutty said:
i find this hard to swallow from an adult poet. seriously.


in all writerdom? are you serious??? :eek:

ok, it's great that you're a fan of his. so am i, to an extent, well - of his writing. but even on here i find others whose writing i prefer. this is not the biggest venue for poets by a long shot, online or off. personally, on here i believe Tzara, greenmountaineer, and Angeline write better. i haven't aquainted myself enough with Lauren's, Boo's, Charley's etc to get the best perspective there. but to claim 'in all writerdom'??? :eek: just... wow. :eek:
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It shouldn't be hard then, given all of writerdom. One contemporary poet with five poems that'll be better than five I can rise from the grave of bflagsst's submissions page. It doesn't take much to stumble upon a writer with one or two great poems, five is basically all Rimbaud could conjure.

Think about the guy that started this thread. I don't believe you would've read his poems if it wasn't for us talking about him every couple of months. The manof one poem. Just like that French guy who got famous off one satirical poem.
 
Epmd607 said:
It shouldn't be hard then, given all of writerdom. One contemporary poet with five poems that'll be better than five I can rise from the grave of bflagsst's submissions page. It doesn't take much to stumble upon a writer with one or two great poems, five is basically all Rimbaud could conjure.

Think about the guy that started this thread. I don't believe you would've read his poems if it wasn't for us talking about him every couple of months. The manof one poem. Just like that French guy who got famous off one satirical poem.
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Epmd, if you are not the same as bflagsst (I don't think you are), you are a moron. I don't care whether you or bflagsst read 'em or like 'em or whatever, the fact that some do or did, that I have more respect for matters. Why do I say that, allowing for all kinds of exceptions, your assessment*( more correctly, evaluation) of poetry specifically and generally is badly flawed. You're ranking of things does not exactly jibe with reality. Three or four, in the past 3 months, come close to what poetry is about, i.e. they are real poems. They come form two or three poets, that are generally regarded as better poets than both of you. Don't worry, I'm not including myself.
As for me, I do what I want, when I want to do it, how I do it defies conventional wisdom (somebody's got to do it), the fact that it works at all should tell you something, if you go back and carefully read, you might see potentials.
Or do you wish to continue in what is the equivalent of book blubbery of a negative sort.
Ignorance is a choice in these days despite the fact it is so widely prevalent. Open your eyes and read between the lines.

* I just like the way it sounds, referin to Emp.
 
Epmd607 said:
It shouldn't be hard then, given all of writerdom. One contemporary poet with five poems that'll be better than five I can rise from the grave of bflagsst's submissions page. It doesn't take much to stumble upon a writer with one or two great poems, five is basically all Rimbaud could conjure.
Click to expand...

Since when has poetry been a hard science or a measurable pursuit like a sport? What are these criteria based on? If they are hard and fast rules then you are about fossilizing an art.

I can see why you rate blagfsst but the quote from hack poet Adrian Mitchell comes to mind 'Most people ignore most poetry because most poetry ignores most people.' I see the equivalent of blagfsst in the visual arts every week. Artists who have honed their skills and finely tuned them to a point they are in danger of disappearing up their own rareified chimney and then blame everyone else for not appreciating great art because no one takes any notice of them because they bore their pontential audience rather than seduce them.

Time filters the good from the bad, it will decide posterity, not contemporary people.
 
Epmd607 said:
One contemporary poet with five poems that'll be better than five I can rise from the grave of bflagsst's submissions page.
Click to expand...

It just struck, bflagsst reminds me of a wine connoisseur who knows everything there is to know about wine except how to enjoy it.
 
Epmd607 said:
It shouldn't be hard then, given all of writerdom. One contemporary poet with five poems that'll be better than five I can rise from the grave of bflagsst's submissions page. It doesn't take much to stumble upon a writer with one or two great poems, five is basically all Rimbaud could conjure.

Think about the guy that started this thread. I don't believe you would've read his poems if it wasn't for us talking about him every couple of months. The manof one poem. Just like that French guy who got famous off one satirical poem.
Click to expand...

of course it's easy. i ran a site where contemporary poets were showcased, silly. the fact i choose not to post in response to that is down to not getting involved in what i regard as puerile, juvenile, misguided and, frankly, embarrassing behaviour coming from people i respected as writers.

WBY (the other)? if someone bumped his poems, i would have seen them. but if you meant the original Yeats, then you would be quite wrong. of course i have read Yeats. i first read Yeats almost 40 years ago, in school.
 
bogusagain said:
Since when has poetry been a hard science or a measurable pursuit like a sport? What are these criteria based on? If they are hard and fast rules then you are about fossilizing an art.

I can see why you rate blagfsst but the quote from hack poet Adrian Mitchell comes to mind 'Most people ignore most poetry because most poetry ignores most people.' I see the equivalent of blagfsst in the visual arts every week. Artists who have honed their skills and finely tuned them to a point they are in danger of disappearing up their own rareified chimney and then blame everyone else for not appreciating great art because no one takes any notice of them because they bore their pontential audience rather than seduce them.

Time filters the good from the bad, it will decide posterity, not contemporary people.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't say Adrian Mitchell was a hack poet, he was just obsessed with Viet Nam, like most of his generation and younger. It's impossible being political in poetry, and social commentary was overdone by beatdom, so now it sounds satirical, snarky, we've heard this before. The Spanish Civil War didn't create any poets either.
 
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