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Loving Wives - Why?

dzchoquet said:
I know I'm late to the thread. I read it in several sessions. Should I have just started a new one?
Anyway, I'm a fairly new writer. Only started early this year. Almost everything I write is what I understand to be called the hotwife genre (wife plays with husband's approval). I have read a great deal of very good writing in that genre before attempting it myself. So in Literotica, until now, I've put everything in Group Sex, but some here have suggested that LW would be more appropriate. I've also been warned, in particular, in this thread, that many who read LW do not like wife sharing stories, which seems ironic to say the least, considering that the word "sharing" is right there in the category description. So I wrote a fairly simple short story with LW in mind, Surprise. I did get a slew of extreme negative comments, and at least one sincere bit of feedback. One of the most recent comments says "This is a story concept NOBODY enjoys!" which of course I know to be wildly untrue.

Now earlier in this thread, people have explained that many of the people making all these negative comments are doing so as a result of their own painful past experiences around cheating. I find that fascinating, because I myself write what I write, to some extent, due to my own similar experiences. So I have to have some empathy. But my response is different. I've found that the best way for me to deal with it is to re-imagine the situation with me embracing her promiscuity -- and then discovering it to be highly arousing (this actually did happen during this marriage in a threesome with a friend of mine). Of course nobody can re-live the past with one's newer attitudes. But I've found I can, in a way, through fiction.
Click to expand...

You've discovered the bizarre and sharply divided world of Loving Wives.

The category was started to include exactly the kind of stories you like to read and write. I like those stories, too. The site's description of the category makes it clear that these types of stories were what they had in mind in establishing the category.

But at some point, the category became colonized by a significant body of readers who hate these types of stories. For them, extramarital sex must be punished. And if your story doesn't fit the mold they want, they will downvote your story and post comments telling you that what you write is "cuck shit."

So you have a choice. Find another place to post your hot wife stories, or take the plunge and post them in LW. The advantage of posting them in LW is it's a huge readership and many of the readers will like your story, notwithstanding the downvotes and vicious comments. But your score will suffer. The alternative is to post the story elsewhere, where you may get a higher score but fewer readers and fans.
 
NotWise said:
How is this different from cuckolding?
Click to expand...

There are two very different types of hot wife stories, although those who hate them don't want to see the difference.

Some people -- true "cuckold" fans -- like to see the husband humiliated. That's an essential part of the kink.

Others prefer the husband to have a more positive and assertive role. He wants his wife to be with other men and enjoys it, but humiliation plays no role.
 
SimonDoom said:
There are two very different types of hot wife stories, although those who hate them don't want to see the difference.

Some people -- true "cuckold" fans -- like to see the husband humiliated. That's an essential part of the kink.

Others prefer the husband to have a more positive and assertive role. He wants his wife to be with other men and enjoys it, but humiliation plays no role.
Click to expand...

I would say that the latter have more appeal to me to read, unless it's a real jerk who deserves the humiliation. I generally imagine myself in the role of the other man, often with an eye toward seducing the husband eventually as well, if he's bi or pan like me.
 
dzchoquet said:
So I wrote a fairly simple short story with LW in mind, Surprise. I did get a slew of extreme negative comments, and at least one sincere bit of feedback.
Click to expand...

For me, what I'm looking for in a LW story are well-developed characters who behave like people.

One of the reasons I think LW is such a bizarre category is that most PWP-style stories that get posted there already have other categories for their specific fetish. So, as a result, you end up with people who just want to masturbate to swinger porn going to Group Sex. Many readers in LW want to see how the swinging affects the relationship.

For me, the lines that summed up (and killed) your story were:
"Sally, may I borrow your husband?"

"Yeah, sure, whatever."
Click to expand...

There was never any sense that it mattered that these people were married, that anything in the story would have been any different if these were just random friends fucking other people side-by-side.

Group sex isn't my kink, so it didn't work for me on a porn level, and there just wasn't enough there to work on a non-porn story level.

Now, sure, you're going to see a wide variety of takes on what a realistic relationship is and what "behaving like people" means. To some readers, any extramarital fun must be followed by the disintegration of the relationship, and if that doesn't happen, then you're doing it wrong.

However, at the least, a LW story with well-developed characters is going to be engaged with by most readers on the "I accept the reality of your story, and want to discuss the plausibility of your characterization" or (even more complimentary to the author, to my mind) "I accept the reality of your story, and wish to discuss your characters as though they're real people" level.

... and if that's not the kind of reaction you want, and you just want to write a PWP fetish-y story, well, don't let me stop you. However, whatever fetish it is, there's probably another category for people who share that kink, so you'd almost certainly get a better response posting there.
 
Valint said:
One of the reasons I think LW is such a bizarre category is that most PWP-style stories that get posted there already have other categories for their specific fetish.
Click to expand...

Excuse me for asking, but what does "PWP" mean?
 
I go all the way back to 2000 as a member and author on Lit. I like writing but I don't take is seriously. I write what I like to read. Sure, it's nice to see good scores and even better to get comments but I don't get all that hung up on either. That's just me. I can understand how others feel differently about it.

Anyway, back then, when I wrote more frequently, I just put my stories in the category that seemed to make sense to me. I saw (and I guess still do) Romance, EC, and LW very similar. Romance being the less graphic than EC but both generally with relationship driven plots. I saw/see LW as a category where the female side of the relationship is really driving the plot. Not cuckold per se or even femdom but just the primary mover of the plot.

Boy, did I get that wrong, at least as defined by the LW mob. Before I knew better, I posted a few stories in LW per my definition. The reaction was pretty clear. Not vile as some have experienced but certainly "spirited". The comments ranged from their total bewilderment to estimates of my IQ and my planet of origin.

A few things are very interesting. Of the 34 stories I have on here, only three are in the LW category, None written more recently than 2001. They rate #1, #3, and #4 when it comes to views, #1, #2, #5 when it comes to comments, and #21, #27, and #32 when it comes to ratings.

Since I don't make much noise on here, I am pretty much an anonymous author, meaning I don't have a big following and no one is particularly drawn to reading a story of mine when they see I have posted something new. From that I would expect that when I post a story in any one category, roughly the same percentage of people with an interest in that category will take a look at a new story of mine. If true, you could draw the conclusion there are by far more readers interested in LW stories that any other category.

Someday I'll try intentionally writing one, just to see if I can do it.
 
Harddaysknight said:
The common thread of LW is that the cream will rise to the top, but the stories have to be well written. Oshaw, DTIverson, Todd173, Rehnquist, qhml1, and Laptopwriter own the top spots in LW. I mean most of the top 200 spots are theirs. Why is that? Because they write some damn good stories with plots and character development. There are some very well written wife sharing stories with high scores. Check out "3 Days of Watching My Wife Fuck" with almost 4 million views and a 4.57 score, which is quite respectable in in that category. The key is the writing.
Click to expand...

If there was a Like button, I'd punch it a dozen times for this post.

rj
 
I need to say that in spite of the large number of very negative comments, I eventually found a couple of very helpful ones. Oddly, the best one, which I thought made a valid criticism (that I hadn't really shown how Donald went so quickly from admitting to a fantasy to going along with Sally's understanding), was posted anonymously. I guess I'll know I've improved as a writer when I can notice these things on my own and fix them before publishing. But my main point is that there are some perfectly civil and thoughtful folks who read and comment in LW. And as I suggested in my original post, if the people who hate stories that actually fit the category are in fact driven by having suffered betrayals, I can't help feeling compassion for them. I've been there.

So I almost feel like continuing to put hotwife stories in LW. After all, I seem to have survived the negative comment flood and ended up with some excellent feedback. And helpful feedback like this is the main reason I started sharing my writing on Literotica.
 
It won't help your ego to write for LW, but...

I haven't been writing very long at all, and my first story ever was written for LW.
At the end of the first day, it had a 2.9 rating.
Four months later, it's up to a 4.15, with 55,000 views and 59 favorites.
Honestly, it isn't a very good story.
The key is getting past the week one crowd, with their "1 bombs" and vicious comments.
Your story will have about what it deserves in terms of views and ratings after a few months go by.
 
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blozo said:
I haven't been writing very long at all, and my first story ever was written for LW.
At the end of the first day, it had a 2.9 rating.
Four months later, it's up to a 4.15, and honestly, it isn't a very good story.
The key is getting past the week one crowd, with their "1 bombs" and vicious comments.
Your story will have about what it deserves in terms of views and ratings after a few months go by.
Click to expand...
Link to your story?
For me, it's the candid feedback. I can think of several things I need to try to improve on for my next effort, based on comments received so far. But yeah, it's nice when every now and then someone seems to like something.
 
If I were a better computer user, I could figure out how to give you a link...

The story is called Sherry, Shelly. Carla, and Mom.

Although one of the characters is called mom, there's no actual incest, just some role play.
I also wrote a real stinker of a follow on to it called "Carla's Wedding", and it's so bad I put a disclaimer in the comment section acknowledging my shame. The role play in that one is so over the top Laurel moved it to the incest category. It had even worse day one stats, and has seen similar improvement over time.
 
dzchoquet said:
For me, it's the candid feedback.
Click to expand...

I've had some really helpful tips in the comment section myself, but seldom from stories posted in LW.

The people in LW that bother to comment in the first few days seem to focus on rage. I even had a guy from LW stalk all the rest of my stories, copy pasting the same post in the comments, saying what a sick bastard I was and detailing some programs that people like me could use to get professional help.
 
Could it be the titling?

As a newcomer I read “loving wives” as being about wives who physically share their love. But two stories in I am aware of what you are discussing: I have taken a lot of heat. Some is for my choice in tense and punctuation but some is about the desire for retribution on the wives or the husbands.

I am certainly interested in any critique but am wondering if Erotic Couplings might make more sense for the stories I’m working on...
 
LightningSeed said:
But two stories in I am aware of what you are discussing: I have taken a lot of heat. Some is for my choice in tense and punctuation but some is about the desire for retribution on the wives or the husbands.
Click to expand...

Personally, I'd consider that story fine as a LW story.

However, I read it a bit more poignantly than perhaps you intended: It came off a bit "Gifts of the Magi"-ish to me, where the husband wanted to give his wife anything to make her happy--but now she wonders if perhaps he just doesn't care enough about her to be jealous--and the wife came back to him more in love than ever--but the fact that he "won" the contest for her heart disturbs him, because he hadn't grasped that he was in a contest. (That the husband almost lost his wife to another guy while he was off playing Duck Hunt made me wonder if you were trying for some symbolism there, given how that's a game known for the player losing and being humiliated by the game for doing so, but if so, it didn't come through clearly enough for me.)

I'd agree with some of the structural complaints. I found the first chapter, in particular, to be tough to follow. I also think you might have done better to post those as two chapters of one story; they really don't stand alone as independent stories to me.

The basic issue here is that there is a decent chunk of LW readers that want realistic relationships, and there's a spectrum as to what they consider realistic.

On the one end, you have those who believe that anything other than a monogamous relationship is doomed to fail. Further down the spectrum, you would have those who would buy an open/poly/swinging kind of relationship, where there's equity and fairness in both spouses having other relationships.

At the far end of the spectrum is going to be those who think that a marriage in which only the wife has sex with other partners can work, and even further, those who think that a marriage can work in which the transition to that is done without any meaningful prior discussion or consent from the husband.

That's where your story lives, at the far end of that spectrum, searching for readers who look at a scenario where a husband turns his back for a minute, the wife goes off and fucks another guy, and when the husband walks in on them he gets a "Is this going to be a problem man?" from the lover and a "I hope this is okay" from the wife, who stays with the lover as the husband leaves (and it's unclear whether she's cheated before or if she ever would have told him if he hadn't walked in on them)... and say "Yeah, I can see that marriage working; I find it completely reasonable that a wife who loves her husband could behave in such a way".

To readers not at that point in the spectrum, they find it implausible that there's not a something that happens next.

So, when those readers look at your story, they're looking at this as a real relationship and projecting out how that couple's future is going to go, such as:
  • The husband is a willing cuckold. It turns out he's a submissive who enjoyed the pain and humiliation of his wife taking a lover and the sense of dread from almost losing her. That's a BDSM story, which is going to get reviled in LW.
  • The wife decides that turnabout is fair play, and chapter three is about him taking a lover, either with or without her direct help. This could either end well or ends with them realizing their marriage is now fucked (with either case bringing in more readers who find that situation plausible).
  • The husband ultimately finds that he can't deal with the wife's unilateral decision to open up their marriage (maybe he thinks turnabout is fair play but she doesn't; maybe there was just something in the way things went down that gnaw at him), or he can deal with that, but there's more fallout he can't deal with (e.g., an STD, she's pregnant, the lover won't go away, he discovers this wasn't the first time), and the marriage crumbles, ending in either BTB or just sad walking away.
  • ... or, well, they head home, have a happy marriage, and this is just a one-off thing that happened on vacation, either to be talked about but never repeated, or never to be spoken of again. But if you're not at the right point on the spectrum, this isn't an outcome you find plausible.
 
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Zeb_Carter said:
As you say "fuck them". I like to write LW stories, all kinds of LW stories. I also love to "fuck them" by not letting them vote. Also, if they post rude comments, I enjoy laughing at them, then deleting them. Poof. Gone. Smiling.

Sometimes I fool them and leave voting on. Then turn it off a week later.

Oh the nasty comments I get. I just laugh and delete them.

Call it a one man crusade against all those idiots that,
1. think the stories are real.
2. hate women
3. hate that their wife cuckold them
4. get so turned on by LW sotries they hate themselves
5. hate that they want to see their wife with another man
6. etc.
Click to expand...
You sir, should be commened for walking through that battlefield like a boss. lol
 
I haven't written one in there because I haven't thought of one, yet. The section far and large has the most degenerates, we can say the writers are awesome, and there's good readers, but it doesn't change the fact that there's peons there. I still find it amusing most treat it like that place Simbas not allowed to go to. I want to eventually post in as many sections as I care to, and that's one of'm. I'd love to piss them off, I want to see how well the story will go. I don't care.to delete comments and I don't care to make an alt just to post a story over there. It's not really so serious to.go covert on the shit. What do I hafta lose by doing it? Surely not money. The cost of my stocks aren't going to drop, months of my life won't be removed.

If you wanna post there, post. Just know the.piss-ants are going to crawl out the mound and bite you. They are so vehemate, you can't really use them as a whole to determin how good a writer you are. An award winning author could post in there and probably get the same fate. Post in it, or don't.
 
I've been thinking about this long dormant thread since it was fresh, and I've decided I'm going back in.
My first story was in LW, and since it had no burn the bitch ending, it got one bombed in to oblivion.
My next story was a 99% true story about an ex girlfriend's Aunt that she caught me with. I just made her my aunt for the story, and it was extremely well received in the Incest category, so I just started writing stories and making people in them related. But it's hard for me to write incest stories, because I just don't feel it.
My mother died when I was young, and my stepmother was a nasty bitch. My sisters are both ugly. Two of my three aunts are nasty bitches, and the one that isn't was already an old lady before I hit puberty. Oh, and my daughter is a lesbian who hates me for being a straight white male. We don't speak.

So I'm going back in to LW, because I like it. I've been with a few married women, and it always went well, and there's just so much more variety.
Yes, I'll get hammered in the ratings. Yes, I'll be insulted in the comments.
But I've got enough stories now with good reviews to know it's them, not me.
We aren't getting paid here, write what you like, not what they want.
 
Lw

I wrote there because that’s what many of my stories are.
There’s a lot of emotion in this category and I think in a lot of ways that’s what makes this corner to most interesting to spend time in.
Ratings? Who cares. I just want people to be interested in what I’m writing.
 
I didn't realize the category was such a sensitive topic when I posted a story there. Since then, I have either a fan or group of dedicated fans, who down vote all my stories each time I post a new one in any category.

I had about 6 or 7 over 4.5 before I posted there.


Now I have 3 and soon none. Then they'll do a sweep and some will go back up, but the guy does keep chipping away. He's amazingly dedicated to his work.

Once you get past that, I think it could be a fun category if the authors wrote with more time and care to develop their characters. The female characters never rise above the depth of a puddle and that is likely being complimentary to their motivations.

Seriously, their only motivation seems to be the promise of a big dick. Fine, I mean I get the fetish and have nothing against fetishes, but try to build it into a story rather than have one revolve around it.

If tried reading some but I keep thinking, "if my husband approached me like that the next voice he'd be hearing would be my lawyer's."
 
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A very belated thank you for a very well thought out and reasoned critique. There was a little Magi intended - I think the realities of what happened were much different for each of them than they expected. I sometimes wonder if Dave should have been attached. I feel it’s not pertinent to the original story but I will say the story fared better on another site when posted as a two-chapter story.

But yes, I think ultimately the reception is mostly based on the ending. Had a hawk soared down and eaten the three of them I might have fared better.

Again, thank you for your really interesting review. Somehow I missed it. :/





Valint said:
Personally, I'd consider that story fine as a LW story.

However, I read it a bit more poignantly than perhaps you intended: It came off a bit "Gifts of the Magi"-ish to me, where the husband wanted to give his wife anything to make her happy--but now she wonders if perhaps he just doesn't care enough about her to be jealous--and the wife came back to him more in love than ever--but the fact that he "won" the contest for her heart disturbs him, because he hadn't grasped that he was in a contest. (That the husband almost lost his wife to another guy while he was off playing Duck Hunt made me wonder if you were trying for some symbolism there, given how that's a game known for the player losing and being humiliated by the game for doing so, but if so, it didn't come through clearly enough for me.)

I'd agree with some of the structural complaints. I found the first chapter, in particular, to be tough to follow. I also think you might have done better to post those as two chapters of one story; they really don't stand alone as independent stories to me.

The basic issue here is that there is a decent chunk of LW readers that want realistic relationships, and there's a spectrum as to what they consider realistic.

On the one end, you have those who believe that anything other than a monogamous relationship is doomed to fail. Further down the spectrum, you would have those who would buy an open/poly/swinging kind of relationship, where there's equity and fairness in both spouses having other relationships.

At the far end of the spectrum is going to be those who think that a marriage in which only the wife has sex with other partners can work, and even further, those who think that a marriage can work in which the transition to that is done without any meaningful prior discussion or consent from the husband.

That's where your story lives, at the far end of that spectrum, searching for readers who look at a scenario where a husband turns his back for a minute, the wife goes off and fucks another guy, and when the husband walks in on them he gets a "Is this going to be a problem man?" from the lover and a "I hope this is okay" from the wife, who stays with the lover as the husband leaves (and it's unclear whether she's cheated before or if she ever would have told him if he hadn't walked in on them)... and say "Yeah, I can see that marriage working; I find it completely reasonable that a wife who loves her husband could behave in such a way".

To readers not at that point in the spectrum, they find it implausible that there's not a something that happens next.

So, when those readers look at your story, they're looking at this as a real relationship and projecting out how that couple's future is going to go, such as:
  • The husband is a willing cuckold. It turns out he's a submissive who enjoyed the pain and humiliation of his wife taking a lover and the sense of dread from almost losing her. That's a BDSM story, which is going to get reviled in LW.
  • The wife decides that turnabout is fair play, and chapter three is about him taking a lover, either with or without her direct help. This could either end well or ends with them realizing their marriage is now fucked (with either case bringing in more readers who find that situation plausible).
  • The husband ultimately finds that he can't deal with the wife's unilateral decision to open up their marriage (maybe he thinks turnabout is fair play but she doesn't; maybe there was just something in the way things went down that gnaw at him), or he can deal with that, but there's more fallout he can't deal with (e.g., an STD, she's pregnant, the lover won't go away, he discovers this wasn't the first time), and the marriage crumbles, ending in either BTB or just sad walking away.
  • ... or, well, they head home, have a happy marriage, and this is just a one-off thing that happened on vacation, either to be talked about but never repeated, or never to be spoken of again. But if you're not at the right point on the spectrum, this isn't an outcome you find plausible.
Click to expand...
 
Well, it posted last night at 1:00, and at 1:02, faster than 99% of humanity could read its three pages, it had a perfect 1.0 on 10 ratings! And six comments of a vicious personal nature, since deleted, that only confirmed my suspicion that they hadn't even read it.
And since it was a Tuesday night, only about a dozen stories dropped in LW. Every single one of them also had a perfect 1.0.

Now, as I type this, it's up to 3.47 on 121 ratings. I'm calling that a win. I don't think it's my best work, but it's good work, and in a couple of months I expect it will settle in the mid 4's.

Most importantly, I enjoyed writing it.
 
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