Yearning for feedback

I'm not inclined towards reading a story with kids in it. There's nothing wrong with it and there aren't any rules against it as long as the kids aren't involved with sex, which the first three paragraphs suggest they aren't. I kind of got even more squeamish when I read a four year old being naked. I know that might reflect real life sometimes, but it's a little too real life for me while i am reading something that is meant for erotic pursuits.

The first thing i do when i read a story is scroll to the end. I look for story length and see what tags are involved. Something I noticed in passing is that you write in paragraph form, which would suggest there is no dialogue, but there is.

Understand, I couldn't read any further after the first three paragraphs, so I'm trying to make the most out of what I did read.

What I like to see (and didn't) is a paragraph dedicated to one person alone. can it be about other people too? sure, as long as it is the one person who observes other people and their interactions from the point of view from the one person, but once you go to a dialogue from another person, then the paragraph should break.

Basically:
Carl is this. carl didn't notice that. Carl even ignored that too.
new paragraph.
Evy talks.
new paragraph.
...and we're back to talking about Carl.

When you jumble all that together in one paragraph, it tends to confuse instead of reading smoothly.

Historically, I use Hemingway's "Hills Like White Elephants" as a reference to support what i say next, a lot. It is not necessary to have a tag accompanying each and every dialogue. Writing, and thereby reading, is supposed to be the soul of brevity; say as much as you need to say and no more. Typically, the only reason that a writer writes more is when they are paid by the word or they like to hear themself talk (such is my case).
What does all that have to do with the price of eggs? Good question.
In the referenced story, the author was so obscure with tags of who said what, that it is still contested; who said what. Yet, that story is recognized as an example of good literature. All of which supports your first separated dialogue without a tag. However, back to your story, likewise, I find myself scratching my head saying "who said that?" Was it Carl or Evy, or was it Aaron or Mindy who are mentioned in the next paragraph?

The way you describe the scene and Carl's non-committal attitude to everything except the ballgame, suggests it is Evy talking, and yet something seems missing and wrong. Evy picks up the naked four year old and then says, basically, "you look after the naked four year old and I'll look after the other child" doesn't track. I'd like to see her handing off the naked four year old to Carl with the accompanying dialogue, so it fully describes the scene, yet, literately, it is not necessary.
To me, when someone picks up something then they are, so to speak, taking ownership and responsibility for that they are holding. Even by just saying "Here, you look after the..." would satisfy for me what is lacking or confuses.

Okay, moving on...
The next thing is, first we are talking about Carl and Evy (By the way, do adult women wear one piece swimsuits nowadays???), then we learn that Kyle and Donny are the names of the two children. Adroitly done. However, then we jump to Aaron and Mindy without skipping a beat. Huh? What? What happened to carl and Mindy? When did we change scenes??? Were they in the room with Carl and Mindy? (or did you start using two names for those characters and then changed while re-writing??)

My point is that you need to put in a "****" or some sort of break to change scenes, or a simple preface of "Upstairs, Aaron heard himself sigh at the ceiling..." to lead the reader by the hand in knowing the scene has changed.

Also, I don't want to squash artistic pursuits, but there is something about someone hearing themself sighing whilst looking at the ceiling that sounds 3rd person/out of body experience-ish. Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems like you're trying to 'guild the lily', which is something I tend to do sometimes. You get so wrapped up in describing details that you excessively describe details; spoon feeding to the reader, as it were.

There is something about "...his arms extended like wings and the terrier barking at his heels..." that rankles. I think it's the use of "and" that bothers me so much. Would "with" be better? I think the answer might be that it depends on if you are trying to stipulate Carl doesn't notice the airplane boy NOR the dog barking at the boy's heels, or if you are trying to say that Carl doesn't notice the airplane boy who has a dog barking at his heels.

Also, I'd like to mention something that I don't know the proper terms for.
"Get Kyle covered and I'll make sure Donny lands safely." They were going down the street to a pool party and it was time to leave.
First you mention "Kyle and Donny" as the subject of a preceding sentence, then follow it with "they were going (someplace)." The leading subject suggests the following obscure reference subject (they) is about them alone.
I don't think this was your intent. By describing Carl showing his swim trunks, it seems you are indicating they (all) are going. I'm not the best in regards to recognizing the faults in this regard, but it seems to be in error.

I'm half temped to read further to see if half my assumptions track correctly, but then I might find more amounts of kids being mentioned which makes my skin crawl. Like I said, it's my own pet peeve, so take that with a grain of salt.
 
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Thanks for the detailed commentary, even if it was only for the first three paragraphs. I suspect that if you read on you will find that at least some of the problems you point out are repeated.

FWIW, the kids (and Evy, for that matter) are there to develop Carl's character as a normal husband and father. They also set the environment which, for the rest of the story, is a neighborhood pool party.
 
Thanks for the detailed commentary, even if it was only for the first three paragraphs. I suspect that if you read on you will find that at least some of the problems you point out are repeated.

FWIW, the kids (and Evy, for that matter) are there to develop Carl's character as a normal husband and father. They also set the environment which, for the rest of the story, is a neighborhood pool party.

I suspected as much, and I suspected as much. I could have elucidated further but even I get tired of hearing myself talk.
 
I normally don't read Erotic Couplings, so I don't know how your story meets the expectations of EC readers. The story may have been a better fit in Loving Wives, but I don't really know as I don't read the category either.

When I'm reading an erotic story, I want a quick idea of who is going to fuck who. After that, I want to see the chemistry build between the two, then the consummation. Your description of Carl wasn't sympathetic and I thought it was Evy and Aaron who were going to be getting down and dirty. I don't think there was anything in the story about why Carl would be attractive to Mindy. If Carl's going to cheat on Evy, he should have some reason for doing so.

I found your third paragraph confusing. You suddenly introduce in a new character who is unrelated to the characters in your first two paragraphs. Something like, "Meanwhile in a house a few doors down from Carl and Evy,..." would have made that paragraph much less confusing.

Mindy in the story is in the maniac phase of bipolar. I know just a little about bipolar, but Mindy doesn't sound maniac to me - she sounds way too calm and rational. My impression is that someone who is maniac thinks they are normal. To me, the information about Mindy being bipolar, being maniac, being sexually insatiable all of would have been better delivered as Aaron's thoughts as he struggle to get ready for the pool party.

There isn't much chemistry between Mindy and Carl. She suddenly decides she needs to have sex with him and he quickly agrees. The story would have worked much better IMHO if you would have had some tension building between them that leads up to them having sex. Also, I think it would have worked better if told only from Carl's point of view (with an early scene from Aaron's point of view). Mindy's point of view doesn't add much to the story.

So I would suggest that Carl should have been a husband trying to make his marriage work but not getting a lot of help from Evy, whose body has gone to pot since the kids were born and isn't interested in sex. He finds Mindy attractive, secretly checks her out, enjoys chatting with her and then when she asks for sex, is torn about cheating on his wife, but finally succumbs to his desires.

Hope that helps.
 
Thanks for your help. I'm not going to rewrite this one, but I'm developing two more stories and comments I get on this one will factor into those.

If not EC or LW, what do you normally read? I actually had some trouble classifying the story, being not very familiar with the classifications. Also, the way I originally conceived the story and the way it comes across to others may not be the same.
 
was it EC or LW? I don't pay much attention to the categories unless I'm reading it for pleasure.

How you classify your story is tricky and if you don't classify it correctly, then laurel might change it (her website after all). I think the best advice someone gave was said by Oggbashan, who said, basically, what is it, more than anything else? The best advice is usually the simplest.

Is it someone cheating on someone else? Is it whips and chains? Is it and old guy with a young woman? Is it two guys? I think you get the idea...
 
It's in EC. If Laurel wants to change it then that's fine with me. It doesn't make a lot of sense for a first-time writer to get indignant over such things.
 
Thanks for your help. I'm not going to rewrite this one, but I'm developing two more stories and comments I get on this one will factor into those.
That's what I do - learn and move on.

If not EC or LW, what do you normally read?
Incest

I actually had some trouble classifying the story, being not very familiar with the classifications. Also, the way I originally conceived the story and the way it comes across to others may not be the same.
My impression is that EC is a dumping ground where almost any story except incest and gay male can go. I don't read LW, but my impression is that a story about a wife initiating a relationship outside of her marriage would go there. From what is posted on the AH, LW stories can get majorly flamed in the comments.
 
At least one of the two stories I'm developing (if it works) will be on incest. Both of those will be shorter than this one.

The way I originally wrote this story Aaron encouraged his wife's affair. I had trouble with that and wrote it out, then later went back and rewrote the story so that a careful reader could at least imagine it was true. I still think of it that way.

I did read that first-time writers get ripped on LW.
 
At least one of the two stories I'm developing (if it works) will be on incest. Both of those will be shorter than this one.
Wow. I considered this story too short. Not much in the way of character development or building of sexual tension. With incest, you really need to play up the "I want to but I know I shouldn't" aspect to make the story work.

Edit: Check out LoveCraft's guide to writing incest stories.
The way I originally wrote this story Aaron encouraged his wife's affair. I had trouble with that and wrote it out, then later went back and rewrote the story so that a careful reader could at least imagine it was true. I still think of it that way.
I didn't get that. What I got was that Aaron was reaching the end of his rope in dealing with his wife. I thought he would be the one in that marriage cheating on his spouse.
 
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Regarding picking categories and understanding what goes in them, you might check out this How To piece Love Your Readers: Categories among others. You'd be amazed at what a treasure trove of wisdom on writing Lit stories the How To category is. Let your fingers do the walking...

Good luck.
 
Wow. I considered this story too short.

This is actually the shortest story I've written. My first erotic short story turned into a large novel with a plot that drifted aimlessly. I put it aside then lost it to a disk crash. Too bad, because there were a few good things that could have been extracted from it. The second was actually supposed to be a novel, but again the story drifted and became too complex. The main thing I wanted from this story was to tell a story straight through. That seemed to happened, so in a sense the story is already a success for me.

With the next two stories I want to continue the "not drifting" thing and get the characterizations done in as few words as possible. The one that is currently half written should end up about 1/2 the size of "seduction." The other would be near the minimum size that Lit accepts. It is still just a concept and may be more poem than than prose.

After that maybe I can loosen up the reins a little.
 
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