How to date a single mom?

This thread reads like a bad soap opera.

I have only one observation. The OP is NOT a party to this action - and I apologize ahead of time if I mis-read (look, the eyes were glazing over early on).

So if what I said above is correct.

WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU DOING TALKING ABOUT SOMEONE ELSE'S PRIVATE BUSINESS ON A SITE SUCH AS LIT?

I do feel better after yelling.

Does the OP - does anyone? - think the young lady will feel BETTER about the OP if she ever finds out he (again, assumption in re the gender of the OP) was looking for advice here?

Do please one and all carry on. I'm just - a bit aghast - at the lack of courtesy here.

Would anyone here feel fine if someone they knew - perhaps a friend, a relative - a daughter? - in a similarly bad situation and having her personal business discussed in a Lit forum by a third party who is only peripherally involved?

My general comment for all dating situations: Dating is the time set aside for you to get to know her and for her to get to know you. It is not an opportunity for you to change yourself into the person she wants to be with. Nor is it an opportunity for her to change herself into the person you want to be with. So, in general, the "what should she do?" and "what should I do?" questions are irrelevant. She should act like herself and you should act like yourself. After an adequate amount of time dating, you should know each other well enough to decide if you are compatible. If you fit each other well, commit to each other. If you don't fit each other, end the relationship amicably.

Specifically:

dirtyhat said:

...what's a respectable amount of time till she should introduce me to her child?

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When it comes to respect, proper respect for a child's needs would dictate that she introduce you to the child only when you have made a strong commitment to each other so that you don't become just another guy mom is introducing for a short-term relationship. It's not an amount of time; it's an amount of commitment.

How patient should I be?

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Be as patient as you really are. See general dating advice above.

What role is acceptable to play in the child's life?

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After making a serious commitment to this lady, the three of you make up a family and (in my opinion) families need fathers. So, if I were you, I would plan on fulfilling the role of father in the life of this child and any future children that result from the relationship. You'll have to coordinate with the biological father to do that well, so I would expect that a violent or immature biological father will disrupt the family with frequent unwelcome drama. If you don't want to be part of that kind of family, now would be a good time to end the relationship. If you do want to be part of that kind of family, then please don't make life any more miserable for this lady or her child in the future because of the drama, of which you volunteered to be part.

How much should she tell me about what's going on with the custody battle?

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She should tell you exactly as much as her personality and values require. If you don't want to be with the person that is revealed by how much she tells you, then move on. In general, if there's no commitment between the two of you, there's no reason for you to know anything.

Is it acceptable that she really doesn't want anybody besides her super close friends to know about us?

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Only you can answer whether or not you want to be with the kind of person who behaves that way. There's no standard, other than yours.

dirtyhat said:

I then said if she bright it up, then it most likely has already been decided she would get a restraining order and she then said she would have to go to trail and testify against her child's father. I asked if she really wanted to and she said not really which to me means it really isn't that serious or she is super scared of him which may very well be the case but I haven't seen it or have the gut feeling it is,

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Plenty of reasons somebody might not want to go testify in court. Even if she doesn't think he's dangerous, a lot of people are nervous about confrontation. And if it was a painful breakup, she may not want to talk about that in public for all to see. I wouldn't go reading a lot into this either way.

Dyslexicea said:

thank god she has a money grubbing attorney concerned about her safety.

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ayup. Lawyers get a lot of bad press, but most of the ones I've dealt with have been good people who helped make sure I didn't get screwed over. And yeah, usually they charge for it, but so does a dentist or a plumber.

NiceNastyMann said:

The OP is NOT a party to this action - and I apologize ahead of time if I mis-read (look, the eyes were glazing over early on).

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Now I'm wondering if I mis-read the thread. Or did I miss a post?

Thanks awkward, you totally answered the questions with simplicity yet truthfulness. Perfect, thank you very much!

The "elusive MILF?"

Do you live adjacent to a convent?

I went over in my mind all of the women I know and have been interested in in the last 5 years of dating. I can think of two maybe three if I include a friend from long ago that had no children from the ages of 20 to 49.

I am sure that childless women exist but I can't think of any. Not store clerks I know, co-workers, anybody. I am not Catholic so I have not met any nuns. When I used to attend a singles congregation in my youth I knew a few dozen single girls with no kids.

She is the gatekeeper about access to knowing anything about her children and should demonstrate that her priority is her children. If not, why would you risk adding to her brood, and bringing a child into the world yourself that will not be properly nurtured? Condoms break. Pregnancies happen. Do not fuck anyone that you cannot envision cheerfully writing a check to for the next 18 years.

As far as meeting them, It is highly inappropriate to involve the children in any knowledge of casual, recreational fun. If it is some sort of trial phase of I think we like each other and maybe down the road we might want to be a family, proceed with extreme caution, It is not fair to children to have them form attachments, anticipate, perhaps, a bump in lifestyle only to have their fragile hopes dashed.

If and when you meet them, you are not their father. Think of yourself as a benign, friendly volunteer from the big brothers program. Be supportive, attentive, and it is not your job to parent them or provide discipline in anyway. That is her job.

If and when you move in (bad idea) or marry her with the intention of it being permanent (better) she is still in charge of meting out punishment and rewards but you do not get to be the good guy. You support her punishments and rewards. You do not allow the children to tr to drive a wedge or get a second opinion. Practice this line, "Let me ask your mom what she thinks."

JAMESBJOHNSON said:

Why would anyone want a single parent? I don't get it.

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Because society is no longer issuing virgins to nice young men from proper families.

query said:

Because society is no longer issuing virgins to nice young men from proper families.

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Ain't that the truth!!

Don't rush it because you don't know her kid(s). Also keep this in mind: her kids will always come first. Make sure you are aware of that. Also if her kids don't like you, this won't work. Now, if and when you meet her kids, focus on winning over the kids. It is almost irrelevant at that point to continue to win her over. You win over the kids and you got her. Just know like others have said, it can be stressful. My wife had a two year old when we met. He liked me right off the bat once I met him. He was actually a very calm kid. It wasn't too complicated just the fact that we couldn't go out much because you always need a sitter. Plan on having a chaperone on most nights you go out if you want to pursue it.

Baby Mamma Drama

dirtyhat said:

I've just recently started seeing her, about a month, not Facebook official yet......

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All of this is just a month into knowing this woman? Single parenthood. Violent ex. Restraining orders. Marital strife. Parental resentment. Court cases. Lawyer fees.

Thanks for everybody's thoughts!

query said:

The "elusive MILF?"

Do you live adjacent to a convent?

I went over in my mind all of the women I know and have been interested in in the last 5 years of dating. I can think of two maybe three if I include a friend from long ago that had no children from the ages of 20 to 49.

I am sure that childless women exist but I can't think of any. Not store clerks I know, co-workers, anybody. I am not Catholic so I have not met any nuns. When I used to attend a singles congregation in my youth I knew a few dozen single girls with no kids.

She is the gatekeeper about access to knowing anything about her children and should demonstrate that her priority is her children. If not, why would you risk adding to her brood, and bringing a child into the world yourself that will not be properly nurtured? Condoms break. Pregnancies happen. Do not fuck anyone that you cannot envision cheerfully writing a check to for the next 18 years.

As far as meeting them, It is highly inappropriate to involve the children in any knowledge of casual, recreational fun. If it is some sort of trial phase of I think we like each other and maybe down the road we might want to be a family, proceed with extreme caution, It is not fair to children to have them form attachments, anticipate, perhaps, a bump in lifestyle only to have their fragile hopes dashed.

If and when you meet them, you are not their father. Think of yourself as a benign, friendly volunteer from the big brothers program. Be supportive, attentive, and it is not your job to parent them or provide discipline in anyway. That is her job.

If and when you move in (bad idea) or marry her with the intention of it being permanent (better) she is still in charge of meting out punishment and rewards but you do not get to be the good guy. You support her punishments and rewards. You do not allow the children to tr to drive a wedge or get a second opinion. Practice this line, "Let me ask your mom what she thinks."

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Query my dear, I could hug you for this post.

Any advice from single moms on here?

Just to let her lead, and you follow when it comes to her kids, and expect to not be the most important thing in her life. The kids will always be the priority or at least they should be. Query's post hit the nail on the head.

My last lover didn't meet my children until we had been serious for a year, but I tend to be overly cautious.

*Beams*

Does anybody here have a general explanation of how a child custody case goes? Time table, steps during the case, specific things they may look at? I know a few of you pointed out how I may affect the case, can anybody explain this to me in greater detail? Thanks so much!

Speaking as a (not so) elusive single mom, I've read a lot of "kids come first" posts on this thread, which is absolutely the way it should be... But it doesn't answer the question of how long is long enough. I have asked myself that question many times. I am very protective of the relationship with my kids and therefore am terrified of allowing the wrong person a space in our family unit. My fear is of course fed by the bewildered thinking of "how did I get it so wrong" when it came to their father, and if I was so wrong about him, after vetting him thoroughly over 2 years of dating, I still wound up single + 2 kids?

It's scary as hell and I have vowed that NO man gets past my gates for at least those two years. He can be a part of MY life, but my kids are off limits.


My suggestion to you, OP. Minimum of 6 months before you entertain the thought of anything more with this woman, then add on the remaining of 2 years of "honeymoon" phase. After that... You get to be on trial as a friend with the wee one.

dirtyhat said:

Does anybody here have a general explanation of how a child custody case goes? Time table, steps during the case, specific things they may look at? I know a few of you pointed out how I may affect the case, can anybody explain this to me in greater detail? Thanks so much!

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It can take no time or forever, depending on how much bull shit the parents contribute, and how nasty friends and relatives are. Plenty of times 'daddy' aint daddy, grandpa is daddy. Sorting out the contestants can take a long time if grandma says mom is a skank.

Personally I wouldn't wait two years to meet the child as if the child and I didn't get along, it's pretty much two years wasted away in my eyes. I can see waiting six months as I see it as a reasonable amount of time. I obvisouly haven't meet her son yet but it's still early on and I don't blame her with all that's going on.

What does scare me is this custody case. In my eyes her lawyer isn't doing much and it scares me pretty darn bad as it could drag on and on which I couldn't handle, I just don't see it as reasonable. His lawyer seems to be playing some dirty tricks which I could see him dragging me into it if they were to find out. I don't want me to cause any trouble for her or the son. I obvisouly don't want to be involved in any court case as it's not my deal and honestly have no part of it unless she wanted me to play a bigger part in the case but I haven't met the child yet so I don't see this happening anytime soon really. I just see the custody battle really affecting us as a couple and although understandable, it's still really frustrating and I'm sure this is just the start of it......

Removed cause it sounded bitchy.

Riles said:

Removed cause it sounded bitchy.

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I think that you gave voice to the protectiveness of a single mom, and how that priority conflicts with your own quest for companionship. I don't think that you sounded bitchy at all.

Anything else? Appreciate all of the input!

dirtyhat said:

Personally I wouldn't wait two years to meet the child as if the child and I didn't get along, it's pretty much two years wasted away in my eyes. I can see waiting six months as I see it as a reasonable amount of time. I obvisouly haven't meet her son yet but it's still early on and I don't blame her with all that's going on.

What does scare me is this custody case. In my eyes her lawyer isn't doing much and it scares me pretty darn bad as it could drag on and on which I couldn't handle, I just don't see it as reasonable. His lawyer seems to be playing some dirty tricks which I could see him dragging me into it if they were to find out. I don't want me to cause any trouble for her or the son. I obvisouly don't want to be involved in any court case as it's not my deal and honestly have no part of it unless she wanted me to play a bigger part in the case but I haven't met the child yet so I don't see this happening anytime soon really. I just see the custody battle really affecting us as a couple and although understandable, it's still really frustrating and I'm sure this is just the start of it......

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"If the child and I don't get along?"

You are definitely not read for fatherhood which is what you would be signing up for. There are not compatible kids and incompatible kids. There are people that can mange and nurture children and people that cannot.

More likely than not these kids who are, like all kids probably pretty malleable, will be under stress, testing boundaries and acting out to some degree.

If you want a kid you can "get along with" I would recommend you wait until you feel a strong urge to procreate, then grow your own from seed. You will still find them hard to get along with but you will feel more invested and more likely to be willing to make the sacrifices needed.

I am not saying this to slam you, I am saying this because you are not ready. I like that you have your hesitations about it all. Too many people get enamored with the mother and assume that the kids will somehow just fit in to your plans.

I married a single mom. There were virtually no dates that did not involve a small child likely to upend a plate or hurl a cherry tomato across the restaurant. Church was a small child waiting till the quietest moment then yelling "I don't WANT to think about Jesus!!" I miss that kid, embarrassment and all.

More likely than not, I dealt with scarier custody and violent e issues than you will encounter. Survivable, but not in the least a good way to enter a low-stress relationship.

And finally although I am sure she is a lovely human being, there is a reason that she was with this guy. There are issues. If they have not and are not dealt with? His problems will be similar to your future problems. I would not take anything at face value. Playing the white knight is very romantic, but know going in it is not, in the least, a sensible decision.

Regarding the legal issues, they are not "dragging on" they will last in some form or another until the child is of age. I am telling you, you are not ready for this. Be supportive, be a friend, but you are not relationship material for a woman in this situation.

Thanks query for your input.

DirtyHat you seem to have very little knowledge as to what is transpiring in the life of the woman you seem to think of as your girlfriend. Which makes me wonder if you are reading more into this relationship than is actually there.

Let me explain custody to you so you'll at least understand what may be happening. Basically there are two types of custody. Joint custody/joint guardianship where both parents have equal rights as to how the child or children are raised. Exclusive custody is where only one parent has that right, in rare cases a third party can be granted exclusive custody. In the case of joint custody, which parent the child resides with is determine by the courts on the bases of best interest of the child, normally with the other parent being granted visitation rights. In many divorce cases these arrangement are agreed to by the parties before being submitted to the court for approval.

In the case of your friend, given that she wasn't married to the biological father, she would have automatically been granted exclusive custody, I know of no state where this isn't the case but I could be wrong. Being your friend has not confided in you as to what is really happening, you have no idea if he's suing for joint custody, exclusive custody or possibly just visitation rights. I'm not a men's right advocate, a long ways from it, but if he's of good character and active in the child's life, I would tend to believe he has as much right to determine how his child is raised as your friend does.

Now to a much more important point. You seem to have an obsession with being allowed into your friend's child's life. As a mother, although not single, I would be suspicious of anyone I'd known for such a short time wanting to be involved in my children's lives. As a matter of fact, such action would mean an immediate discontinuation of that relationship. It's one thing to want to know about a person's life, including their family, but it's quite another for someone to try to push themselves into involvement with my children. If I was single, dating for such a short time someone so obsessed with meeting my children, I'm not at all sad to say that person would be history.