Fear & Greed

My Brother told me this when he was drunk and it's served me well...

Treat every situaton like a dog would... If you can't Eat it, Chew on it, or Hump it...Piss on it and WALK
AWAY

~~~

Thas worth a quote...just to prolong the ecstasy...

:)

ami
 

How many people are aware that stock market ( as measured by the S&P 500 ) returns for the ten ( 10 ) years from 1 April, 1999 through 31 March, 2009 were WORSE than the Great Depression ( 1 January, 1929 through 31 December, 1938 )?


Even with the "bounce" that's occured since March, 2009 the decade of 1 April, 2000 through 31 March, 2010 is roughly comparable to the Great Depression.



Period.....................................Total Return ( Price Change plus Dividends )

1/1/29-12/31/38............................ -0.89% per annum
4/1/99-3/31/09............................. -2.99% per annum

4/1/00-3/31/10............................. -0.65% per annum


 

How many people are aware that stock market ( as measured by the S&P 500 ) returns for the ten ( 10 ) years from 1 April, 1999 through 31 March, 2009 were WORSE than the Great Depression ( 1 January, 1929 through 31 December, 1938 )?


Even with the "bounce" that's occured since March, 2009 the decade of 1 April, 2000 through 31 March, 2010 is roughly comparable to the Great Depression.

I don't quite see your point.

No, most people not involved with business or economics will not have made the comparison with the '30's depression - so what.

The argument that is not getting through is that unintelligent global governments (of both left and right) thought they had found the philosopher's stone as banks seemed to be able to turn base metal into gold and simple politicians only found out later, after over-extending state spending, that their belief that recession was ended forever was a complete chimera - the 'Emperor's Clothes.

Blame the banks and Ivy League grads for the CDI's but incompetent legislators for the current overspending by government.

The problem the US has at the moment is that we seem, thanks to the Great Leader, to be the only member of the G20 who thinks that quantitive easing and more government spending is the route to the promised land.

The Health Bill is unaffordable in present circumstances and should be deferred until economic circumstances permit.

Every other G20 country has taken steps to reduce the percentage of GDP spent by government - except the US.

China has stopped linking its currency to the dollar - not a reflection of global diplomacy, just a fear that the dollar is in a massive decline.

I was quite an Obama fan - pre-crisis and pre-election - he is clearly now a major risk to our well-being in everything from economic matters to oil spills, overseas wars and simple diplomatic relations with our allies.
 
I don't quite see your point.

No, most people not involved with business or economics will not have made the comparison with the '30's depression - so what.

The argument that is not getting through is that unintelligent global governments (of both left and right) thought they had found the philosopher's stone as banks seemed to be able to turn base metal into gold and simple politicians only found out later, after over-extending state spending, that their belief that recession was ended forever was a complete chimera - the 'Emperor's Clothes.

Blame the banks and Ivy League grads for the CDI's but incompetent legislators for the current overspending by government.

The problem the US has at the moment is that we seem, thanks to the Great Leader, to be the only member of the G20 who thinks that quantitive easing and more government spending is the route to the promised land.

The Health Bill is unaffordable in present circumstances and should be deferred until economic circumstances permit.

Every other G20 country has taken steps to reduce the percentage of GDP spent by government - except the US.

China has stopped linking its currency to the dollar - not a reflection of global diplomacy, just a fear that the dollar is in a massive decline.

I was quite an Obama fan - pre-crisis and pre-election - he is clearly now a major risk to our well-being in everything from economic matters to oil spills, overseas wars and simple diplomatic relations with our allies.


I really wasn't attempting to make a point other than to provide perspective on the magnitude of the decade's stock market debacle.


Some grew up listening to their parent's tales of the how horrible the Depression was; others have heard of "Black Tuesday" and the stock market's collapse in the '30s.


There is no doubt that a big part of the reason for the stock market's horrible results for the past decade was its absurd overvaluation in the late '90s and the nutty "Internet bubble."


In any event, we just lived through a bit of stock market history— and many may not be aware of it.


You are, of course, "preaching to the choir" with respect to our fiscal and monetary profligacy. We are getting perilously close to the edge of prudence and may, in fact, have already crossed the point of no return.

 
You are, of course, "preaching to the choir" with respect to our fiscal and monetary profligacy. We are getting perilously close to the edge of prudence and may, in fact, have already crossed the point of no return.
Well yeah. And some of us have been saying that since the eighties-- all the signs pointed to coming trouble. Was it just yelling "fire" back then, but suddenly it's true now that the fire is licking at the stage curtains?
 
I was quite an Obama fan - pre-crisis and pre-election - he is clearly now a major risk to our well-being in everything from economic matters to oil spills, overseas wars and simple diplomatic relations with our allies.

Tell me, when was your American life "perfect" for you? Or if not perfect, then really really good? Why was it great like that and who was running the show? I mean, since it seems that you're suffering in Gehenna right now under Obama, there must've been a halcyon year or era in comparison to this one that you'd kill a bus full of grannies going to Vegas to get back to, right?
 

Someday— and I don't know when— people will look back in astonishment at a 1.44% 5-YEAR U.S. Treasury Note yield-to-maturity and a 2.64% 10-YEAR U.S. Treasury Note yield-to-maturity and wonder, "What in hell were those people thinking?"


Would you LOCK UP your money for 10 YEARS to earn 2.64%?


When the day comes, folk will have fun wondering if the people who bought 10-year Treasuries at those prices were the same people who bought "tech" stocks when the NASDAQ was at 5,000 in early 2000.





Aug 23, 2010 (Reuters) - U.S. railroad Norfolk Southern Corp (NSC.N) is marketing 100-year bonds in a move to lock in low borrowing costs, a company spokesman said on Monday.

The bonds, expected to be priced later on Monday, are a reopening of a $300 million 100-year issue Norfolk Southern sold in 2005, according to IFR, a Thomson Reuters Service.

The decision to sell the debt was "based on the current low interest rates and the strong appetite among buyers for 100-year bonds," said Norfolk Southern spokesman Robin Chapman.

Norfolk Southern is the latest in a stream of companies taking advantage of low borrowing costs as falling Treasury yields push rates lower on all types of bonds.

Average corporate bond yields last week dipped to 3.775 percent, nearly matching a record low of 3.759 percent hit in June 2003, according to Bank of America Merrill Lynch data.

Century bonds are rare and have fallen in and out of favor over the years. Walt Disney Co (DIS.N) International Business Machines Corp (IBM.N) and J.C. Penney Co (JCP.N) sold 100-year bonds in the 1990s, while bond insurer Ambac Financial Group (ABK.N) sold 100-year debt in 2003.

Long-maturity bonds are typically sold by companies with household names or a long history of solid earnings.

Norfolk Southern, which dates to the start of Southern Railway in 1830, is already 180 years old.

Traders said the Norfolk Southern bonds may find demand from insurance companies which need to match their long-duration liabilities with a long-term income stream.

The bonds are expected to yield about 230 basis points over Treasuries, which would be about 90 basis points more than Norfolk Southern's seasoned 30-year debt, one trader said.

Though long-maturity bonds are at greater risk of falling in price when interest rates rise, 100-year bonds are not much more sensitive to rate changes than 30-year bonds, the trader said.

Goldman Sachs is bookrunning manager for Norfolk Southern's new issue, which will be a minimum of $100 million in size, IFR said. The original issue was priced at par in March 2005 with a 6 percent coupon.
 
Last edited:
He struggled in the grip of her strong thighs, not really wanting to be free. "OOOOhhhh," she moaned, her fingernails leaving burning streaks across his ribcage. The burn went straight to his cock. He thought that if he didn't get into her hot wetness his dick might just explode.

But it was no use. His nose was full of her scent, her taste soaking into the pores of his skin. All she wanted from him was his tongue.

He rubbed his aching cock against the harsh sheets of the bed when she began yet another thrashing orgasm. The ring constricting it wasn't going to come off anytime soon...
 
Last edited:
cock-pussy-girrafe.jpg
 
One method to avoid the extremes of fear and greed when investing works very well but isn't very popular: put 90%+ of your long-term savings into a pile that you can only rearrange twice a year (once, if you really want to be hardcore about it.) The single largest reducer of most people's retirement income is the trading costs they racked up screwing around with their portfolios while they were working. If you can't learn to sit on your hands (and you've got more than, say, USD500k in savings, put the money into a trust that you really, with lawyers watching can't touch more than twice a year.

Hope that's of use,
H
 
https://personal.vanguard.com/us/insights/article/major-league-tips-05262010



Major league tips on avoiding financial errors

May 26, 2010


Hall of Fame catcher Yogi Berra had a lot to say about baseball that could also be applied to everyday life. His unique way of saying things made people laugh, but his candor often gave them pause, too. Here are six "Yogi-isms" that relate to investing.

"If you don't know where you're going, you might wind up someplace else."
Have a plan and stick to it. You can't plan for the future until you know what you want the future to hold. Think you need $2 million to retire comfortably at age 65? Want four years of college tuition for your daughter? Write down the facts and anchor those big-picture goals in reality, estimating what they'll cost.

Putting your plans in terms that you can measure will help you stay on course even if your goals change or the market fluctuates. It can also help you commit to saving and investing consistently.

"Don't always follow the crowd, because nobody goes there anymore. It's too crowded."
Don't chase performance. While most of us know that past performance is not a promise of future returns, it seems counterintuitive not to buy in the middle of a hot streak—or to sell in a downturn. But jumping in and out of the market based on short-term results is a surefire way to buy high and sell low. Plus you may already be too late, because by the time you react, the fund has likely reached its peak and will soon be on the decline.

A more trustworthy strategy? Choose appropriate investments for your goals, periodically rebalance to maintain your target allocation, and invest for the long term. You'll be ahead of the crowd instead of chasing after it.

"You better cut the pizza in four pieces because I'm not hungry enough to eat six."
Avoid overlap. Overlapping means that your portfolio is overweighted in a particular asset class, industry, or market segment. For example, if you hold several funds that have a heavy concentration in technology or long-term bonds, you could be overexposed in those sectors.

You can achieve balance and diversification (and significantly reduce your risk) by investing a percentage of your investments in at least two asset classes—and then keeping those percentages at a relatively steady level. An even simpler strategy is to consider an all-in-one target-date fund that automatically invests and diversifies for you.

"It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future."
Don't try to time the market. Some investors keep cash assets and just wait for the perfect opportunity to buy. But predicting performance is nearly impossible. No one knows the optimal moment to invest. If it were that easy, we'd all be hitting financial grand slams on a regular basis.

A wiser approach is to take advantage of dollar-cost averaging by participating regularly in an employee plan or another automatic investment program. Contributing a set amount on a set schedule can help grow your account, and you won't have to play the market guesswork game.

"A nickel ain't worth a dime anymore."
Pay attention to costs. At Vanguard, we emphasize costs a lot, and for good reason: Costs matter. Every dollar you pay in fund costs is one dollar that could otherwise earn money for you.

A fund's expense ratio can also be a useful predictor of its relative performance: On average, since funds with higher expense ratios pass fewer returns on to their investors, these funds tend to underperform those with lower expense ratios.

So be sure to check a fund's cost before you invest. With a low expense ratio, you'll pay less to own a fund and you could keep more in return.

"I'd find the fellow who lost it, and if he was poor, I'd return it."
(Yogi's response when asked what he would do if he found $1 million.)

Invest tax-efficiently. You want to keep as much of your return as you can. And by maximizing your tax-efficiency, you can minimize what the IRS expects you to hand over.

First, choose an appropriate mix of stocks, bonds, and cash for your portfolio, and then put your investments where they'll benefit you most tax-wise. For example, hold higher-yielding or income-generating assets in tax-sheltered accounts such as employer plans and IRAs, and place tax-efficient holdings like index and tax-managed funds in taxable accounts. Positioning your investments strategically can diminish tax impact and provide the potential to add significant value to your portfolio.

Yogi claimed that "we make too many wrong mistakes," but if you stick to a plan, diversify, invest for the long term, and pay attention to costs and taxes, you can help eliminate some costly errors that could keep you from reaching your goals.


© 1995–2010 The Vanguard Group, Inc
 
One method to avoid the extremes of fear and greed when investing works very well but isn't very popular: put 90%+ of your long-term savings into a pile that you can only rearrange twice a year (once, if you really want to be hardcore about it.) The single largest reducer of most people's retirement income is the trading costs they racked up screwing around with their portfolios while they were working. If you can't learn to sit on your hands (and you've got more than, say, USD500k in savings, put the money into a trust that you really, with lawyers watching can't touch more than twice a year.

Hope that's of use,
H

That's good advice, H.

You are absolutely correct— learning to sit on one's hands may be the single most difficult "skill" for BOTH individual and institutional investors to learn.


"If you're not willing to own something for ten years, don't even think about it for ten seconds."
-Warren Edward Buffett



 
One method to avoid the extremes of fear and greed when investing works very well but isn't very popular: put 90%+ of your long-term savings into a pile that you can only rearrange twice a year (once, if you really want to be hardcore about it.) The single largest reducer of most people's retirement income is the trading costs they racked up screwing around with their portfolios while they were working. If you can't learn to sit on your hands (and you've got more than, say, USD500k in savings, put the money into a trust that you really, with lawyers watching can't touch more than twice a year.

Hope that's of use,
H

When I was trading stocks, that's how I operated. I looked for stocks that had a cyclical nature and bought when the price fell into its low range. When it moved into its high range, usually more than a year, I sold.

My way to get past greed and fear was to buy and simply forget it for a year before checking the price. All things come to he who waits.
 

"It takes a 100% gain to make up a 50% loss."

Rule#1
Never lose money

Rule #2
Never forget Rule #1

-Warren Edward Buffett


Code:
SERIAL RETURNS NECESSARY TO RESTORE VALUE						
						
If,	And,	Then,		If,	Then,	 is needed
Yr 1	Yr 2	End		Yr 1	a Yr 2	 to produce
Ret=	Ret=	Value=		Ret=	Ret of	 End Value
5%	-5%	1.0000		-5%	5%	1.0000
10%	-9%	1.0000		-10%	11%	1.0000
15%	-13%	1.0000		-15%	18%	1.0000
20%	-17%	1.0000		-20%	25%	1.0000
25%	-20%	1.0000		-25%	33%	1.0000
30%	-23%	1.0000		-30%	43%	1.0000
35%	-26%	1.0000		-35%	54%	1.0000
40%	-29%	1.0000		-40%	67%	1.0000
45%	-31%	1.0000		-45%	82%	1.0000
50%	-33%	1.0000		-50%	100%	1.0000
55%	-35%	1.0000		-55%	122%	1.0000
60%	-38%	1.0000		-60%	150%	1.0000
65%	-39%	1.0000		-65%	186%	1.0000
70%	-41%	1.0000		-70%	233%	1.0000



Code:
IDENTICAL SERIAL RETURNS PRODUCE IDENTICAL END						
	RESULTS, REGARDLESS OF ORDER					
Ret	Ret			Ret	Ret	
Yr 1	Yr 2	End Value	Yr 1	Yr 2	End Value
						
5%	-5%	0.9975		-5%	5%	0.9975
10%	-10%	0.9900		-10%	10%	0.9900
15%	-15%	0.9775		-15%	15%	0.9775
20%	-20%	0.9600		-20%	20%	0.9600
25%	-25%	0.9375		-25%	25%	0.9375
30%	-30%	0.9100		-30%	30%	0.9100
35%	-35%	0.8775		-35%	35%	0.8775
40%	-40%	0.8400		-40%	40%	0.8400
45%	-45%	0.7975		-45%	45%	0.7975
50%	-50%	0.7500		-50%	50%	0.7500
55%	-55%	0.6975		-55%	55%	0.6975
60%	-60%	0.6400		-60%	60%	0.6400
65%	-65%	0.5775		-65%	65%	0.5775
70%	-70%	0.5100		-70%	70%	0.5100
 
One of Sir Isaac Newton's most frequently cited aphorisms is:
"I can predict the motions of heavenly bodies but not the madness of crowds."

I once read the IQ of a mob is easily calculated. Take the IQ of the dumbest person in the crowd and devide by the number in the crowd and ypou have the answer.

The now au courant John Maynard Keynes ( who lost a fortune through inadvisable speculation, then recouped it ) observed:
"Markets can remain irrational longer than you can stay solvent."

The quote says all about what JMK knew about the markets, The markets are almost never rational.

Buy low and sell high. Nice theory but almost no one does especially individual investors. Most, individuals especially, buy just before or after the peak and wait to sell until just before or after the bottom.

I have what is for me a lot of my emergency funds in a CDs earning just a touch over 1%. I am looking at stock in utilities which pay a dividend of about 4% or better but there is a risk. The stocks could go down thus my "emergency" fund could decrease in value. So I am a bit torn.

I do like Mr. Buffet's comment: Buy when there is blood in the streets and put your hand on your wallet when there is is optimism. (I'm sure I screwed up the words but not I hope not the concept.)

BTW do you know what they call most of the Day Traders? ...BROKE!
 
Last edited:

There are certain graphs that can identify periods where fear or greed predominates. Once such graph would be a time series of the "spreads" ( i.e., the difference between interest rates ) between U.S. Treasury and corporate debt. The difference between the yield of a traditional 10-year Treasury note and a 10-year Treasury Inflation-Protected Security is a measure of the market's fear ( or lack thereof ) of future inflation.

fredgraph.png

 
My first thought on seeing panic is "Will someone please stop that bloody woman screaming ?"

[note; seen in the movies, it's usually a woman, but I'm not letting sexism get in the way of a good phrase ]
 
If the bottom falls completely out of the stock market tomorrow, it won't affect a goddamn thing other than inconveniencing a few executives, and disappointing a bunch of wannbe moguls - it's become separate from, and virtually irrelevant to the rest of the economy.

If you listen to the talking heads, you'd think the world was ending every time the Dow drops a couple of points, but there is no reason to even have a stock market in a capitalist economy, far from being critical, it's superfluous.
 
My rule for buying and selling is simple: Buy as close to the intrinsic value as possible when prices trend high. Never sell for less than the intrinsic value.
 
If the bottom falls completely out of the stock market tomorrow, it won't affect a goddamn thing other than inconveniencing a few executives, and disappointing a bunch of wannbe moguls - it's become separate from, and virtually irrelevant to the rest of the economy.

If you listen to the talking heads, you'd think the world was ending every time the Dow drops a couple of points, but there is no reason to even have a stock market in a capitalist economy, far from being critical, it's superfluous.


While I am far too well aware of the abuses and absurdities that have unfortunately become all too commonplace, I respectfully disagree. The stock market does provide a broad social benefit.


It facilitates the aggregation of capital necessary for the establishment and funding of businesses. That, in turn, enables large pools of capital such as employee retirement schemes to participate in economic growth. In the long run, investment in the ownership of business has provided returns higher than that available from alternatives such as cash or bonds and more than the rate of inflation ( as measured by the U.S. CPI ). In the long run, investing in the stock market has been a "positive sum" proposition.


In the 84 years since 1 January, 1926 stocks ( as measured by the S&P 500 ) have produced a nominal PRETAX average annual compound total return of 9.86% ( 4.59% from income and 5.27% from growth of principal ). Over that same period of time, CPI inflation has been 2.99% while the PRETAX returns from bonds ( as measured by constant maturity intermediate term U.S. Treasuries or corporate bond indices of similar tenor ) have been roughly 3.70% higher than CPI inflation ( the last twenty years have been a particularly good period for bonds because of the decline in inflation and the current poor economy ).


It is not difficult to see from the above that a combination of taxation, transaction costs, ill-advised excessive trading, fees and inflation can easily destroy the slim return advantage provided by stocks. The unwary and the untutored— enthusiastically assisted by predators and media charlatans— frequently learn that lesson the hard way.


The allure and illusion of "easy money" has always attracted malingerers, varieties of "con" artists, grifters and carnival barkers. Those seeking quick riches have almost always been disappointed.


Whether you like it or not, it is a FACT that millions of individuals in the U.S. are dependent on the returns provided by their direct or indirect ( i.e., retirement plans ) ownership of stocks. It is a FACT that millions of individuals are dependent on a functioning stock market so that their employers have the ability to raise capital that eventually goes, in part, to the payment of wages and salaries.





E.T.A.-
Having said all that, there's no denying that it's been a comparatively lousy decade for stocks. They were ( obviously ) highly over-priced at the end of the '90s.

 
Last edited:
...The stock market does provide a broad social benefit...

....In the long run, investing in the stock market has been a "positive sum" proposition.

Depends on your POV. When the interests of shareholders trump the interests of stakeholders, I'd suggest a larger portion of society suffers. In other words, when shareholders benefit from increased productivity, but stake holders don't, you end up with very rich shareholders, and very poor stakeholders - stakeholders being the people who are actually doing the work. That's what we're seeing today. We have the largest gap between the rich and the poor since 1929. This is the fatal flaw in capitalism. It ends up creating a class system with decreased upward mobility for the working class. Right now, the USA ranks #15 (?) in upward mobility compared to the rest of the industrialized world. (Not to mention the fact that it was the get-rich-quick Wall Street mentality that crashed the economy in 2008. How, exactly, does society benefit from such an event?)
 
It facilitates the aggregation of capital necessary for the establishment and funding of businesses. That, in turn, enables large pools of capital such as employee retirement schemes to participate in economic growth. In the long run, investment in the ownership of business has provided returns higher than that available from alternatives such as cash or bonds and more than the rate of inflation ( as measured by the U.S. CPI ). In the long run, investing in the stock market has been a "positive sum" proposition.
Bullshit - businesses might have used it to fund expansion in the old days, but for many years now, thy turn to the bond market for expansion funds, stocks are too volatile, they can go up and down several points in a day the bond market is much more stable.

The stock market is a big slush fund used for executive compensation, which contributes to it's volatility: it's primary function is to supplement executive salaries with stock options, which, not being expenses, can be used to inflate earnings reports, further manipulating stock prices.

The fact that stock prices can be manipulated, and the financial sector has gotten so good at doing it, means anybody who ever really thought the stock market was anything but a casino has long fled for the bond market, unless they feel like gambling or have insider information, or are naive, and listen to stuffed shirt like yourself praise stocks in authoritative, stentorian tones - shills.

Any stock adviser worth their salt will tell you to buy some stocks and then forget you have them, the shills on TV are telling you to buy and sell every five minutes, whereby of course, any profits you might make are eaten up in transaction fees.

And meantime, every time it's in their interests, the big financial houses will build a bubble, then pop it and extract all the value they can, which might be as much as half your portfolio, like the last time, where the whole thing was a Goldman hit on Bear Stearn's and Lehman, and Goldman engineered the whole thing from start to finish, made easier by virtue of having a top exec embedded in the government.

You're an idiot if you don't think it will happen again, this was at least the Third time in Twenty years they've done it, and each time has been bigger than the last.

You'll notice that after the NASDAQ crash, the brick and mortar economy went steaming on with hardly a bump, very similar to the S&L scam in the Eighties that hit mostly private contractors - it was harder on the brick and mortar economy for Two reasons this time: it dragged homeowners and contractors in, and and the banks panicked and stopped lending to each other, precipitating a credit bottleneck, the direct result of loss of confidence, not a lack of available capital.

Far from a "positive sum", it's become a distinct liability - if firms were required to expense stock options, it would go a long way towards altering the perverse incentives to treat stocks as a distinct and separate "product", detached completely from whatever other product a firm might produce, which in the case of the big financial houses, is nothing.

Nah, from the standpoint of a day trader here, it's all about timing the bubbles, do that right, maybe you'll snatch up a few of the crumbs that drop from the jaws of the financial industry, there is no such thing as a sound, long term strategy here anymore.
 
Last edited:
Back
Top