BDSM: Questions and Answers

HotXBunz said:

I am a newbie and just fell into this thread and got lost. There are so many informed people here at Lit.

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I offer you a warm welcome to both this one thread, HotXBunz, and to Lit itself. I have difficulty imagining how incredibly single-minded you must be to read all this... stuff... in one sitting but i know it can be done. Recently, as we know, both SpectreT and Muff did it, too.

Masochists.
Y'all are definitely masochists.

Yay!
More players for my team!

Thanks for the welcome Cymbidia. Single minded is a nice way to say obsessive and compulsive. LOL I was mesmerized. I have been reading Lit for awhile and finaly decided to post. It is scary as hell not knowing the ropes. Thanks again for making me feel welcome.

I was trying to create a clever double entendre and all I managed was a clumsy double post!

SpectreT said:

Oh, and Miss T? Syracuse is finally acting like it's winter time.

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Yes, T, winter found it's way here as well! Brrrrr it is damp and chilly out there.

Yet, there isn't enough snow to go snowmobiling.

HotXBuns: Welcome. You find yourself in good company here and at lit at large!

The Hotel: Near Louisville KY, there is a place called "The Farm." A couple owns the farm which is fully outfitted for play parties. The owners have many of the larger play items and furniture that the average person has not place to store. They host events and parties as well as offer their facilities for other, less formal use. Expanding on such an idea to include lessons, instruction, counseling, essentially, to have somewhere for people to be and be safe, have fun and learn a bit as well, could be fun as well as helpful to those who do not know where to begin.

*Cym! Sorry for the lousy grammar. I am taking cold medicine and am a bit foggy this afternoon!

MissTaken said:

*Cym! Sorry for the lousy grammar. I am taking cold medicine and am a bit foggy this afternoon!

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Are you seeing double, too?




(Sorry you're not feeling well, MissT.)

Thanks for the welcome Cymbidia. Single minded is a nice way to say obsessive and compulsive. LOL I was mesmerized. I have been reading Lit for awhile and finaly decided to post. It is scary as hell not knowing the ropes. Thanks again for making me feel welcome.

MissTaken, I couldn't agree more about the good company. The folks on this thread seem very friendly. Thanks for the welcome.

<looking around, outside, at the paltry inch and a half of stubborn snow that hasn't melted and won't blow away, at the uneven, thin sheet of ice covering the driveway>

(To Merelan): Not a real winter. A Colorado Springs, Colorado winter, maybe. I've lived there. Trust me. Kinda cold, biting winds, a smattering of dust-like snow.

<looking now at cymbidia>

Excuse me? Masochist? Moi? <shaking head> not in your league, that much is certain. I'm a wimp.

<turning to HotXBunz>

Allow me, also to extend a welcome, as well as applaud your stamina on reading through this whole thing. I only had to read through 30 pages to get into this one, and my brain itched for a week.

<addressing the General Assembly of Lit BDSM'ers>

Someone mentioned the hotel/resort as a dream that we can't afford. Possibly true. That's why I suggested forming a corporation. I did mention a Limited Liability Corporation (LLC), but that's probably not the best business model to go looking for capital. Like I said, I'm good as a middle manager, project director, and visionary. The devil is in the details, and I'm no devil.

I'm just.... The Beast.

Needing a "definition"

Just a quick "side kick" here to tear you from the plesant dreams of the hotel/ressort.

How would you explain / describe / define "topping from the bottom" - or does it not exist?

I tried and I think I either have an odd concept of it or my attempt was "misunderstood". Would someone hep me out here please?

To the "masochist" new arrivals on board: Welcome, nice to see we aren't yet some totally "inbread (is that the word for uhmm - keeping it int the family?" bunch of loonies

HotX--welcome.

cym--More players for your team? I shudder to think..

MissT--sorry you're not feeling well. Get better soon.

foxinsox--Hi there, missie. Like your location: I love Stain'd; I've been wallowing in their CD for a week.

WD--you were thinking of me the other day, which means in some small way I'm winning you over. Been following the politics of the poetry boards lately? Remind me to PM you, okay?

Blackbich--Come back! Come back!

Hecate--I promise, when I'm more sober and rested, I'll write a response to your question about Topping from the bottom, because I have both experience and questions which bear on that. But right now, it sounds *hard* and I'm tired and lazy. Forgive me?

Oh, and hi EVERYONE!

Spectre T--if you don't change that av soon, I'll never get anything done. I keep coming over to look at it. My productivity level is plummeting.

RS

Risia, that's his aim in life. To distract us with his ?charms" so that we are at his will.

topping from bottom?????? yes, look forward to explanation. Is a contradiction isn't it? Then again, what isn't?

Spectre... looking out window at light dust and green, frozen grass.... I swear we don't live in the same town.

Hecate, miss you.

<to Merelan> We might not. I live about as far north as you can get and still be in Onondaga County. Still technically in that chunk of map known as the Greater Syracuse Area, but then again, thanks to Suburban Sprawl, the whole County is the Greater Syracuse Area. My friends in North Syracuse still have snow covering their lawns as well, although some patches of lawn are showing here and there. Same goes for my friends in Liverpool.

Re: The AV: I just saw that pic somewhere on the net, and given my fascination with anal play and enemas, it seemed to fit. And I only seem charming because the fact that here, where no one can see me or talk to me face to face, I'm secure enough to show all of what I think of as "The Real Me". You folks here on the board know more about me than any of my friends do.

And your remark about distracting with charms? That's part of "Topping from Below". Doing whatever you can to manipulate the person who is ostensibly dominating you; motivating them in subtle ways, or perhaps overt ways. I can't remember where I heard this one, but:

"When he's dominating me, he's in charge. He tells me what to do. When I'm dominating him, he's still in charge; he tells me what to do to him."

I remember now; that was from an HBO "Real Sex" special.

Sounds a little more overt than what I'm thinking of; the power dynamic there is pretty firmly fixed, no matter how they're playing.

Many heart felt thanks to SpectreT, Hecate and ResiaSkye for the welcome.

Topping from the bottom

SpectreT explained it nicely. But I want to add some recent experience. I played lately with a very experienced sub, he's in the scene for more than 20 years. I almost felt like a newbie with my 5 years.
When we started negotiating, he suggested a few things he liked, some of them I had never tried, but was willing to, others turned me off and others... well... I don't feel like spending a lot of $$$ for electroplay stuff. All that isn't topping from the bottom, but merely exchanging ideas. There are so many differrent ways and toys and ideas in BDSM, an experienced sub is a great way to learn new things and you have a willing "victim" as well <snicker>
Our play went along nicely. I tried some new things and he subtly had to give me some hints. Again, that wasn't topping from the bottom, but welcomed help to make it enjoyable for both of us. And I was "on top" during the whole scene.

Less confused now Hecate or even more?

Monika

HotXBunz I want to welcome you to Literotica as well.

I'm here on this thread quite often since I find it fascinating as well, and after having tried it a little in real life, I know it's a fetisch I really like! Even enough to get my own crop recently!

I hope you'll have lots of fun here, and if you have any questions, feel free to get in touch with me, and I'll try to help you out!

"Bodkin" Nipple Clamps

WriterDom said:

Anyone ever used test tube holders as nipple clamps? I found a set on a web site for almost $30.

The test tube holders are cheap. I found a place where I can get 10 for $12. Since they are rather long, 6 inches or so, I think they'd look better with a heavier chain. Maybe something from Home Depot?

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I haven't used the test tube holders but for a VERY small investment you can make almost the same adjustable nipple clamps that are sold for $15 to $20 on most sites.

Go to a sewing store, or possibly the sewing dept. at WalMart,
and ask for "Bodkins" {hey are used to pull elastic through a casing}
Use "tool dip" {can be bought at any hardware store} on the ends of the Bodkins if you don't want pointy edges.
While you are at the hardware store pick up a few inches of your favorite chain to join the Bodkins together.

The Bodkins are about .89 cents each. A small can of tool dip runs about $3. and chain is less than $1 a foot.

Foxy? I'm so very glad you decided to poke your head in so we could see you. Keep doing it, darlin'. Your voice is valuable to all of us.

And welcome to you, too, MysCynthia. You sound quite knowledgable about using goods found in regular stores to enhance our kinda play. That's always stuff we're interested in here. You, and your information base, are most warmly welcome.

Hecate... and topping from the bottom.
Egads!
I, uh, have some experience with this.

I think of "topping rom the bottom" as my tendancy to sometimes try to direct and control the scene, the play, even daily life BDSM-based stuff, by offering hints (or worse) to my Dom/me as to which direction the play should go. And, without hubris, with some shame, i'm pretty good at doing this, too.

It's not always a terrible thing, you know, for a sub to offer some help as to the direction things should go. Sometimes, especially when people are new to each other, the Dom wants and needs to know about my responses, my desires, my fears - and the only way to let him know is to let him know, either verbally or non-verbally via body mvements or screams or head shakes or something like that.

However, there's a really steep, really slippery slope, and a very fine line between being cooperative and helpful and open and honest - as we all need and want to be with our Dom - and doing the topping from below thing that is so universally reviled.

I am almost always more experienced than those with whom i play. I often have many more, and more varied, play experiences than most of them because i've been doing this for so long. In truth, in almost every relationship i've had in the last double handful of years, i have done some of the good kind of leading, at least in the beginning.

However, and unfortunately, i tend to test my Doms via that bad topping from the bottom, too. It's unfair to us both. It's wrong. I know that, but i do it anyway. Like trying to get out of my bonds, i have to see if they'll let it happen or if they're aware enough of me and themselves and the dynamics of power exchange relationships to disallow it.

I'm good at it, shamefully.

To all intents and purposes, i am a model subbie.
Inside, though, just as Doms test me for the qualities they most need in a sub, so do i test Doms for what i need: someone who is sure enough of who he is as a Dom to recognize and resist my topping from the bottom, to disallow me that power, to laugh at my attempts - and then correct my idea of continuing along that path.

I don't really want the control, you know, i just don't want to give it away as if it were worthless. I want it taken by someone who knows what its worth, who knows what to do with that kind of control, and who can wield with almost arrogant expertise in a manner that benefits us both.

I'm experienced.
I'm smart.
I have to try, don't i?

Most fail my little tests.
Some don't.

Right now, i'm off to meet one who seems to be rising above all my so-far-paltry efforts to top him from the bottom. We're still in the talking stage, though, so we shall see.

I hope this has been of some help to you, Hecate.


http://dubnglas.tripod.com/bottom.htm
"A submissive who tries to influence or direct the actions of the Dominant to said to be "topping from the bottom". Knowing how the Dom is likely to respond to some remark or action, and wanting to experience that reaction from him, the sub sets out to direct the behavior of the Dom by speaking or acting in the way she believes will get her what she wants. If she can accurately predict the response of the Dom she can influence him to her own advantage. She may lessen her punishment for some severe infraction, she may get some particular sort of attention when she's in the mood for it, she may even get him to ignore her when she wants to ignore him. None of this is being submissive. Whether her Dom is bothered by this persuasive power of his sub is his own business. But let's call it what it is: topping from the bottom."





Addendum: A fresh example.
I just spoke to the Dom i'm meeting for coffee (in 50 minutes - gotta get going!) and he told me to wait outside a particular restaurantfor him. It's sorta chilly this morning and i countered by suggesting (not asking) that i wait inside, in the small foyer the resaturant has. He said "no", that he wanted me outside, standing by the door - and now i could stand there with my feet together and touching, as if they were bound.

The unspoken play here is that i tried to do the topping form the bottom thing, and he recognized it... and countered it.

Ohhhh...
This may be fun.

Gotta go.

Got my print back today. The matting is an acid free felt that really draws it out. The pic doesn't do it justice.

Okay, so now that I'm rested, back to Hecate's question.

Those of you who've been here for a while know that I Switch. However, I wouldn't say that I often truly "sub," even though I play Bottom fairly often. To me, this is an important distinction, for a reason that Hecate's question alludes to. (grammarians, forgive the dangling participle. )

My hubbie's quite capable of being a loving Dom, but he's less eager (and somewhat less comfortable) being sadistic. He's only inclined to use what we might call extreme sensation if provoked by a power struggle. I like the sensation, crave it, want it. That's really the only consistent reason that I Bottom. So, I find that I frequently provoke him to get what I want from the scene. What cym might call being a SAM (smart-assed masochist).

Also, I have considerably more experience with all of this than he does. This is a first kinky relationship for him. It's my second long-term one, and my first was really edgy at times. I know my limits, weak spots, and easily pushed buttons more clearly than he does, despite our 8 years together, because I've been closer to the edge than he's comfortable with approaching. So, partially he looks to me for guidance (because he loves me, because he doesn't want to hurt me, and because at heart he's a bit of a softie. ), and partially I guide our play of my own volition.

When I Top, I retain control. I respect his limits, though I push them, and I pay attention to his responses, but I don't let him direct things. This isn't to be unfair, but because it's what he needs. If I'm not truly in control, he can't let himself fully be sub; if I can get him into that headspace, it's mind-blowing for him. While I enjoy sensation, he prefers to be aggressively bound. Punishment for him is more emotional, more about attention and affection. For me, it's physical. We have different needs and desires.

Would many Dom/mes like the way I play? Probably not. But, they aren't in my bed or my heart. We play the way that works for us, and we have no one else to please with it. We do what works for us both, whether it fits the labels or not.

And now, the question: Why does the idea of Topping from Below so bother people? Is it because it ruins the illusion of a scene? Is it more of an issue if you're living a 24/7 M/s relationship? What do you all think?

RS

BDSM B&B

cymbidia said:

It simply amazes me who reads, or scans, this thread!
I wish more'd speak out...


Oddly enough, i've been unable to find much on kink-friendly hotels in San Francisco. You'd think they'd be all over the City, and they probably are, but i can't find any useful web-published info on them. Does anyone have anything on this?


I have no information about the San Francisco area
but I did find this link, for a BDSM B&B in MI,
while looking for a rental cabin/cottage.
http://www.shadowfind.com/home42299.html
It looks like an interesting place.


I would love to collect a list of kink friendly
hotel/motel/rental units. Or just suggestions
for places where any of you have stayed, that
are private enough to play and not worry about
"disturbing the neighbors".

Thanks

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http://www.whipsworld.com/whipsbb.htm

Some guy renting his condo out in atlanta complete with toys, and Mistress, Master, or sub if you pay extra. I'd be worried about cops kicking in the door.

WriterDom said:

http://www.whipsworld.com/whipsbb.htm

Some guy renting his condo out in atlanta complete with toys, and Mistress, Master, or sub if you pay extra. I'd be worried about cops kicking in the door.

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Thanks so much for the linkWriterDom. I'll add it to my list.
I think I'd be more concerned about hidden cameras than the police when using a private apartment (even if it is the penthouse) But then again maybe I just watch too many crime shows.

panicked

*sigh*
i was going to meet a Dom from bondage.com on friday for lunch (to talk!) but i just panicked and called it off. we've been talking for a while now and everything has been going fine. i don't know what's wrong with me i didn't even get to talk to him, just left a message on his voicemail. now i have to go to class and i'm all churned up. damnit damnit damnit. i hate it when i feel like i'm doing well and then it turns out i was just fooling myself

Re: panicked

seXieleXie said:

i was going to meet a Dom from bondage.com on friday for lunch (to talk!) but i just panicked and called it off. we've been talking for a while now and everything has been going fine. i don't know what's wrong with me

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You're scared.

This man knows a LOT about you, a lot more than almost anyone else in your life right now. He knows stuff about you that is new to you, tender and private stuff. Talking to him online or on the phone is one thing. Face to face is another.

I understand that fear, lexie. I have the same fears. It's okay to be afraid, too. What halfway sane person wouldn't be filled with fears and anxieties when going to meet someone who might, just might, end up (at some point) blindfolding you and putting you into bondage - and then using the sorts of toys we all like so much (in theory) on you? What nutcase *wouldn't* be sorta scared about meeting that person?

Tell him. Call again, tell him you're sorta panicked about meeting him face to face. Ask him to help you work through it.

If he's worth meeting, he'll be interested in helping you with your fears around the whole issue, lexie.

If you don't call him back, if you don't end up going, then you definitely won't meet him - and whatever could have been or might have been, well, those hopes will die stillborn, won't they?

The following is the sig line i use in my email - and kind of my guiding principle in stuff like this throughout my life:
"The time came when the risk it took to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom."
-- Anais Nin

Be bold, lexie.
You have to allow the possibility of pleasure and fulfillment into your life if you're ever going to find it.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~
So, this new Dom seems right up my alley.
Definitely not playable.
Definitely capable in the ways that matter to me.
Definitely assertive, way kinked, and intelligent.
Definitely knows who he is and what he wants in the middle of the shifting sands that are the whole mass of BDSM possibilities.
Stay tuned.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~

To lexie:

What she said.

Not that I'm one to talk, I'm still pretty firmy stuck in "bud" stage, myself. Have been for far too long. And it does hurt, being too scared to let even a little tendril of self out of the bubble I live in. My own interactions with others are all the minimum necessary to get through a day. I stand in awe of the kind of courage it took to even contact someone, nevermind arranging a meeting. I've pretty much risked nothing, ever, as long as I've been alive, that I could avoid risking. I keep deciding that I'm going to live, but then a thousand thousand reasons jump out at me not to even take that first step, and I never have. I'm getting too old to be living in a shell.

Yes, it bothers me. Yes, I'm tired, and not doing too good at fighting off my depression right now. And yes, I'm on vacation.