Do we want our partner to be jealous?

justin_in_cary said:

How do you talk to your partner about jealousy without it turning into a "are you telling me there's something I need to be jealous about?" fight? I constantly fantasize about doing a threesome or a swap, but I'm afraid to bring it up.

A little prior history: my wife and I broken up for a time before we were married (she was carrying our son at the time, too). She slept with another man, but didn't tell me until about 3 months ago. The breakup (and her sex encounter) occurred six years ago. I had no reason to feel jealous, and I was not jealous at all. I was actually mildly amused. She got angry at me because I wasn't jealous or upset. What did I do wrong?

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In certain species (lions, some macaques, langurs, etc.) males kill infants that aren't theirs. In other species (various rodents and a few other macaques, for instance) females kill other females' infants. "Pregnant" lobsters will try to kill every lobster, male or female, that they encounter. And some people, I'm one of them, believe humans should, if not exhibiting the same behavior, at least have a similar degree of hostility to all actual and possible rivals in sexual matters. We believe the Highlander movies got it right: there can be only one (realistically, of course, it's more like "in my ideal world there would be only one" or "in order for me to achieve total satisfaction there can be only one" or "there can be others as long as I win"). I mean, I don't even like sharing something as trivial as my city with other males. I have like five or six token male friends and only two of those are actually in the same state as me, and all the celebrities I'm a fan of (my sports teams, movie stars, musicians, etc.) are all either female or stay out of my state. So projecting myself onto her, what you did wrong was not hate a man who was your enemy in the struggle for resources and reproduction - and had actually defeated you in that struggle - and whose offspring by dint of merely existing are a threat to your own progeny. I assume that made her have doubts about whether you would fight for her now, with her thinking that you fighting for her would be a good thing.

nakdsub said:

Most people know of my thoughts regarding fidelity so I won't go into that; however, saying a man, or any person, should be confident that their spouse loves him/her when they see them having sex with another person is like saying a man should be confident he's the best while the man standing next to him raises the first place trophy.

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Hm. To me it's more "I really love that book, but this book is interesting in a different way and sometimes I want to read that one instead." It's not about putting my lovers in order.

That's incredible that you know all that. I get the whole "there can only be one" ideology, but in my perspective, it happened six years ago (and she didn't tell me for six years), and it happened when we were not together at the time. She didn't cheat on me, and she didn't tell me about it, so I feel that pretending to be jealous or angry would be a waste of time and energy.

*Justin

AdjectiveNounVerb said:

In certain species (lions, some macaques, langurs, etc.) males kill infants that aren't theirs. In other species (various rodents and a few other macaques, for instance) females kill other females' infants. "Pregnant" lobsters will try to kill every lobster, male or female, that they encounter. And some people, I'm one of them, believe humans should, if not exhibiting the same behavior, at least have a similar degree of hostility to all actual and possible rivals in sexual matters. We believe the Highlander movies got it right: there can be only one (realistically, of course, it's more like "in my ideal world there would be only one" or "in order for me to achieve total satisfaction there can be only one" or "there can be others as long as I win"). I mean, I don't even like sharing something as trivial as my city with other males. I have like five or six token male friends and only two of those are actually in the same state as me, and all the celebrities I'm a fan of (my sports teams, movie stars, musicians, etc.) are all either female or stay out of my state. So projecting myself onto her, what you did wrong was not hate a man who was your enemy in the struggle for resources and reproduction - and had actually defeated you in that struggle - and whose offspring by dint of merely existing are a threat to your own progeny. I assume that made her have doubts about whether you would fight for her now, with her thinking that you fighting for her would be a good thing.

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After a couple of days to decide how I feel, as well as a couple of hour long phone conversations with my husband (don't you just hate having serious conversations on the phone because face to face is not possible?) I have decided that I am more flattered that he trusts me so much that he could let me do something most men could not rather than worry about whether he should be a wee bit jealous. The thought of having another person join us is so intriguing and the possibility of having a female lover while he watches simply makes me tingle. Now the big question is could I possibly do it? Doubtful if I am honest but it does make for some really nice fantasies and who knows, like I have been saying of late, maybe, someday. Thanks for all the replies to my questions and some ..umm interesting pm's.

This thread intrigues me. Jealousy is a subject that fascinates me. I think it's interesting to see what other people do as a result of their feelings for someone else. And people seem to define possessiveness and jealousy differently from one person to the next.

*Begin rambly pmann*

For the most part, I have never been a jealous person. In fact, I've been bitched at because of my lack of jealousy before. It was perceived as being passive and uncaring. Meh.

However, there has been one person in my life over whom I've been possessive or jealous, pick whichever. I think the problem occurs with those feelings when it comes from a place of distrust. Or insecurity. My feelings of distrust were never there for this girl. I always trusted her. And I dont lack security either. But I was so damned jealous. I burned inside for her. It was a weird feeling. It was a good feeling, if that makes any sense. It was nice to feel something so powerful. To be consumed in thought by this person. It was like she possessed me. I would have rather fucked a nest of angry wasps than think about her with anyone else.

Example: I always thought I'd be interested in a threesome (as every guy on this earth is). Honestly, with every girl I see, I would think, "I would let her be in a threesome with me." As if girls are just champing at the bit. But with this girl I could think of nothing else but her. I didn't want anyone else. I didn't want anything else but her. I needed no one else.

So while many people just think jealousy is this massively terrible feeling that causes insanity, that's not always the case. For me, it was a good feeling. For someone to make me feel that serious or that intensely, that irrational and that crazy... It was amazing. It's a difficult thing, though, to face, knowing your thoughts may be irrational and ridiculous. And no amount of reasoning could change it. No amount of telling myself to stop feeling this way made a difference. And to be honest, I didn't want to change it.

With all that rambling... Well, I don't really have a point. I was just interested in this jealousy discussion. In most instances, I could be jealousy free with stuff concerning sex. If my wife wanted something else... I'd let her have a hall pass. As long as I got one. That's just me though.

I can relate to the rambling because I get all tongue tied even when typing. As for jealousy, I think perhaps I invoked too strong of an emotion in my OP. I was sort of caught between conflicting emotions when I started the thread. I guess in some ways I wanted him to not want to ever see anyone, man or woman, doing anything with me. Funny thing is, as I have already posted in another thread, I would get aroused watching him giving a bj to another man. So I guess I created my own double standard....on myself! sheeesh. At any rate I am kinda past that concern and back to more sound footing.

southern_gal said:

I can relate to the rambling because I get all tongue tied even when typing. As for jealousy, I think perhaps I invoked too strong of an emotion in my OP. I was sort of caught between conflicting emotions when I started the thread. I guess in some ways I wanted him to not want to ever see anyone, man or woman, doing anything with me. Funny thing is, as I have already posted in another thread, I would get aroused watching him giving a bj to another man. So I guess I created my own double standard....on myself! sheeesh. At any rate I am kinda past that concern and back to more sound footing.

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This is a great thread. It really is.

Bramblethorn said:

Hm. To me it's more "I really love that book, but this book is interesting in a different way and sometimes I want to read that one instead." It's not about putting my lovers in order.

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In staying with the trophy example given...

I see it more as a confident man having a first place trophy and allowing another man to hold his trophy. The confident man knows the trophy is his and it will be given back to him. He just enjoys watching someone else want what is his.

southern_gal, I am in no way saying you are an object or a trophy. I am just stating my views on the earlier example given.

Edensgarden said:

southern_gal, I am in no way saying you are an object or a trophy. I am just stating my views on the earlier example given.

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Uh huh. Our eyes are up here. Tsk Tsk.

pmann said:

Uh huh. Our eyes are up here. Tsk Tsk.

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Tsk Tsk? Is that you rubbing your sticks together trying to start a fire?

Edensgarden said:

Tsk Tsk? Is that you rubbing your sticks together trying to start a fire?

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It's the sound of a cigarette lighter lighting my underwear on fire in protest. We are not objects.

southern_gal said:

I could not possibly develop an emotional attachment to another man and feel certain my husband feels the same. Again, my original post was made after too few hours of sleep (that is why I could not respond for some time after I posted the thread....nap time) and the usual clouded emotions when he leaves on another job. I can honestly say that no matter what other thoughts I may have, I have never doubted his commitment to me and mine to him.

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I am sorry but you have no idea what will happen, no one does. You think this now and hopefully you are correct but the minute you let someone else in beyond a certain point in your life you really have no idea what might happen, good sex involves intimacy, hormones, genetic imprinting and all, and you just never know.

as far as jealousy, I agree with Aurelia_Malys that it is born of insecurity.

oh and in answer to your original question, no I do not want my partner to be jealous. I also don't preclude adding others it is just I walk in with my eyes wide open.

Noor said:

I am sorry but you have no idea what will happen, no one does. You think this now and hopefully you are correct but the minute you let someone else in beyond a certain point in your life you really have no idea what might happen, good sex involves intimacy, hormones, genetic imprinting and all, and you just never know.

as far as jealousy, I agree with Aurelia_Malys that it is born of insecurity.

oh and in answer to your original question, no I do not want my partner to be jealous. I also don't preclude adding others it is just I walk in with my eyes wide open.

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You are making some bold assumptions. To say that we are all the same in how we process emotions is pure speculation based on your own experiences. I am not discounting that you are certain of your own beliefs but you cannot possibly speak for how I feel and how I react to something as opposed to how you would react.

Edit: This was not meant to be as mean spirited as it may possibly sound. That certainly was not my intention. Sometimes I don't word things in the same manner that I am thinking it. And there certainly is some validity to what you are saying. I am fond of a quote that my father frequently used "you are starting down a slippery slope". That often is very concise.

Edensgarden said:

In staying with the trophy example given...

I see it more as a confident man having a first place trophy and allowing another man to hold his trophy. The confident man knows the trophy is his and it will be given back to him. He just enjoys watching someone else want what is his.

southern_gal, I am in no way saying you are an object or a trophy. I am just stating my views on the earlier example given.

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I would feel flattered to be thought of as such.

southern_gal said:

You are making some bold assumptions. To say that we are all the same in how we process emotions is pure speculation based on your own experiences. I am not discounting that you are certain of your own beliefs but you cannot possibly speak for how I feel and how I process emotions.

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I have no idea how you feel but you may not either until you are in the situation. Let me know what happens...

I having watched this a lot, and it can be a crap shoot.

People fall for people with their minds, hearts and bodies, to think you can always control can be unwise.

Noor said:

I have no idea how you feel but you may not either until you are in the situation. Let me know what happens...

I having watched this a lot, and it can be a crap shoot.

People fall for people with their minds, hearts and bodies, to think you can always control can be unwise.

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Noor, please read my edit to my post from earlier. You are correct and I was wrong in how I over reacted.

This is very interesting. My ex used to complain that I don't get jealous enough; as others have said, he seemed to interpret it as a lack of caring. For me, at least, that it completely untrue; I don't get jealous because I respect my partners' autonomy and choices, and if he would choose someone else over me unless I get jealous, then I don't need to choose him.

If that makes any sense.

And I hate the feeling when I am limited in what I can do, even just talking to other guys or looking at them or having friends, because of a jealous boyfriend. It is not flattering to me and it does not make me feel good. It makes me feel inadequate because after everything I do for him he is still insecure.

But watching jealousy in love triangle movies, or fantasizing about being the center of a love triangle, can be a romantic fantasy. Not fun in real life.

my $.02

I would have to agree, partly with Noor, people can fall for someone, whom they have never even met on so many levels, some things can't be controlled. But, as to what Eden said, it does take a strong, secure man to know that he is the object of her love, but carnal lust is something entirely different.

I cannot help but wonder how this thread would have turned out had I chosen another term. Jealousy has such a terrible connotation to it. All I really wanted to imply is that I had conflicting emotions ranging from feeling wonderfully loved that he trusted me so much, and yet still wanting him to not want me to be with anyone but him. Jealousy is not really the word. That horse however, has long been out of the barn.

southern_gal said:

Noor, please read my edit to my post from earlier. You are correct and I was wrong in how I over reacted.

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Okay!

southern_gal said:

I cannot help but wonder how this thread would have turned out had I chosen another term. Jealousy has such a terrible connotation to it. All I really wanted to imply is that I had conflicting emotions ranging from feeling wonderfully loved that he trusted me so much, and yet still wanting him to not want me to be with anyone but him. Jealousy is not really the word. That horse however, has long been out of the barn.

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Perhaps you meant desire or longing, but with a little zing and bite added. I think I get the gist of what you mean, just can't put a word to it.

I think "possessive" may be the word southern_gal is looking for, if you think of possessive as it's own thing separate from jealousy and not in it's extreme and creepy stalker "you are MINE" manifestation.

Because as I already said, being jealous and being possessive are two completely different things. You can belong to him, and he can belong to you, with jealousy not ever being present.

And Edensgarden, I love your twist on the trophy analogy. As a confident man, I think you hit the nail on the head perfectly with that one.

thelovingsadist said:

I think "possessive" may be the word southern_gal is looking for, if you think of possessive as it's own thing separate from jealousy and not in it's extreme and creepy stalker "you are MINE" manifestation.

Because as I already said, being jealous and being possessive are two completely different things. You can belong to him, and he can belong to you, with jealousy not ever being present.

And Edensgarden, I love your twist on the trophy analogy. As a confident man, I think you hit the nail on the head perfectly with that one.

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Why thank you.

As a confident woman, I have enjoyed having my trophy held by another. Getting nailed hard by his head afterward was even better.

Edensgarden said:

Getting nailed hard by his head afterward was even better.

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Indeed. Reclaiming what's mine is always the best part.

Southerngal-

The conflicted emotions you describe, of being flattered that your husband would be confident enough in you to want to see you with a male or female lover while at the same time in some ways not wanting him to let you do that, is what is known as typical human emotions, they often are contradictory and irrational. I think the second emotion is a part of yourself in effect saying "if he really loves me so much and desires me so much, how could he ever allow someone else to touch me"....In effect, it is projecting that a partner who would be willing to let their other half have sex with others can't really care all that much about them, because someone who really lusted after their other half would put them under lock and key.........too, it could also be part of yourself in effect wanting him to say no, because you have your own worries about potentially doing something like that...

Keep in mind that most of us are brought up to look at our spouses and sexual partners as unique to ourselves, as 'ours', and it is kind of natural to look at someone who doesn't seem to fit this mold and say "hmm, why doesn't he see me as being 'his' like that, what is wrong with me/him that he would be willing to do that".....it is kind of like a typical NY'er, when someone does something nice for you the first reaction is "what does that person want from me", rather then assuming they are simply nice.

For my part, I am glad your husband and you can talk about these things, get a charge out of them and not go ballistic over it, as many spouses would. Husbands and wives both often have the first thought that if you talk about others being involved, it means there is something wrong with them, etc.....the fact that you guys can talk about it, and maybe fantasize about it, is way cool, because that can always be fun even if you never decide to try it.

If you do decide to go down that road, then what is key is to talk about it, and also to make clear that either of you can back out, stop it, without repercussions, if they are uncomfortable. There can be pitfalls to these kinds of things, if one partner is more into it then another, or if one person gets lost in it it can turn the other person off, but that is where communication comes in. It is interesting that your husband seems more into watching you rather then participating (especially if it was you with another woman), a lot of men I know who have done or desire a MFF threesome tend to see it as the two women pleasuring him, he seems more getting off on the idea of watching you get pleasure. The teasing aspect sounds a little bit like a mild form of a cuck fantasy, but in the end what matters is what makes you two rock.

Whatever you end up doing or not doing, it sounds like you two are handling things the right way, communicating and talking about your fantasies, committing to each other's pleasure and whether it happens or not you'll prob have a lot of fun. Yes, threesomes or sharing or whatever has its pitfalls, I have seen marriages blow up because of it, I have seen wives fall in love with a guy they were having sex with (with hubby's blessing/him watching or participating or not), I have seen a husband supposedly okay with it be angry about it, didn't communicate, and that anger split them up, have seen a wife divorce a husband who was into swinging and didn't notice she wasn't, but in those cases the couple had serious problems communicating, and in several of them they prob would have eventually split anyway IMO....but also know couples who ended up trying this who found a lot of fun and heat in their relationship over doing these things.

My only advice is have fun with it, talk about it openly, and whatever you do make it what works for you, the moralizers, the ones pitching gloom and doom, those telling you you should have a poly relationship, whatever, aren't living your life, you are. And if the only thing that comes out of this is you and your hubby find out you both have interested, perverted, twisted thoughts, you are better off then 99.9% of the couples out there who have those fantasies, don't talk about them with each other, and then blame each other cause their sex life is so boring