Pardon My Rant

I just need to rant a little bit somewhere, and this seems the appropriate place.

My poem, Mother of a Ghost is about a miscarriage I suffered, and is based around the fact that traces of the DNA of the child remain within the mother's bloodstream for the rest of her life.

I'm pretty good at accepting criticism. Maybe it's a lousy poem. I haven't written much poetry, so I don't expect great laurels, I'm sure I have a lot to learn.

But I received this anonymous comment:

Good idea, blah execution. Reads like you're trying to add too much emotion to it. What is it called, 'emo'. I read this and think, 'this person is over the top in their depression' I don't think about the poem in a "poignant" way, I think, 'they are trying to hard' in their description.

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I found it astonishing. Tell me my word choice is poor, that the rhythm is wrong (a previous comment made that point, and I think it's a good critique), I'll accept fair criticism.

But telling a mother that her reaction to the loss of a child is "emo"? That she's "over the top in her depression"?

That's not criticism, that's sadism.

MelissaBaby said:

I just need to rant a little bit somewhere, and this seems the appropriate place.

My poem, Mother of a Ghost is about a miscarriage I suffered, and is based around the fact that traces of the DNA of the child remain within the mother's bloodstream for the rest of her life.

I'm pretty good at accepting criticism. Maybe it's a lousy poem. I haven't written much poetry, so I don't expect great laurels, I'm sure I have a lot to learn.

But I received this anonymous comment:



I found it astonishing. Tell me my word choice is poor, that the rhythm is wrong (a previous comment made that point, and I think it's a good critique), I'll accept fair criticism.

But telling a mother that her reaction to the loss of a child is "emo"? That she's "over the top in her depression"?

That's not criticism, that's sadism.

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first off, hi

secondly, anonymous comments have to weighed with an additional pinch of salt, particularly when their own sentence structure and spelling is poor. judge each comment on its merits.

thirdly: when you post up a poem, you're tossing your creation out there into the cold cold world. not everyone will like what you've written, as i'm sure you're aware (says cap't obvious), but it's worth reading all comments because we learn from the process of seeing through another's eyes. sometimes those comments will be constructive, meaningful, useful ... sometimes people simply post trash.

lastly: sometimes we're so closely involved with the subject matter of our writes it's hard to stand in someone else's shoes and viewing them from a perspective not our own. someone who's experienced a miscarriage may find they easily empathise and buy into the poem far easier than, for example, a 22 year old whose main interests are pool and beer and trying to get laid.

i've not had time to read or comment on your poem yet, melissa, but hope to take a look over the weekend. we've some big animals arriving tomorrow we have to be ready for. all change!

you can erase comments you don't want to show but i usually leave all of them up - it can be a learning experience, especially if you return to them months if not years later. there may be truths in them we, as people too close to our writes, may not recognise now but hit home later.

edit: clicked your handy link for a quick shuftie - the anonymous twat doesn't know what they're talking about

butters said:

first off, hi

secondly, anonymous comments have to weighed with an additional pinch of salt, particularly when their own sentence structure and spelling is poor. judge each comment on its merits.

thirdly: when you post up a poem, you're tossing your creation out there into the cold cold world. not everyone will like what you've written, as i'm sure you're aware (says cap't obvious), but it's worth reading all comments because we learn from the process of seeing through another's eyes. sometimes those comments will be constructive, meaningful, useful ... sometimes people simply post trash.

lastly: sometimes we're so closely involved with the subject matter of our writes it's hard to stand in someone else's shoes and viewing them from a perspective not our own. someone who's experienced a miscarriage may find they easily empathise and buy into the poem far easier than, for example, a 22 year old whose main interests are pool and beer and trying to get laid.

i've not had time to read or comment on your poem yet, melissa, but hope to take a look over the weekend. we've some big animals arriving tomorrow we have to be ready for. all change!

you can erase comments you don't want to show but i usually leave all of them up - it can be a learning experience, especially if you return to them months if not years later. there may be truths in them we, as people too close to our writes, may not recognise now but hit home later.

edit: clicked your handy link for a quick shuftie - the anonymous twat doesn't know what they're talking about

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Hi butters, and thank you.

I am living testimony to the act that we learn more from our mistakes than our successes, so I agree with everything you have said about accepting criticism.

I appreciate you take the time to read the poem and respond. I know you are busy. I am a bit envious. I had once hoped to become a large animal veterinarian, but life took another track.

I've only just seen this , sorry.
Anonymous whoever he or she may be, never has enough courage to put their name and go out of their way to unkind. Pay him/her no mind but if you do pity them for having such a shallow life that they get their kicks from putting a downer on others.

UnderYourSpell said:

I've only just seen this , sorry.
Anonymous whoever he or she may be, never has enough courage to put their name and go out of their way to unkind. Pay him/her no mind but if you do pity them for having such a shallow life that they get their kicks from putting a downer on others.

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I try not to take criticism to heart, but that was just over the top. Well, I got it out of my system.

Thank you for your kind words.

MelissaBaby said:

I try not to take criticism to heart, but that was just over the top. Well, I got it out of my system.

Thank you for your kind words.

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brilliant poe. by the way, emotional conveyance in the brevity, the white space made each line hit like a lump in the throat and trying to speak through the tears

I thought it was well written. I also thought Senna's comments were noteworthy, should someday you decide to edit a good poem to make it better, Melissa.

todski28 said:

brilliant poe. by the way, emotional conveyance in the brevity, the white space made each line hit like a lump in the throat and trying to speak through the tears

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Thank you, I appreciate your kind words.

greenmountaineer said:

I thought it was well written. I also thought Senna's comments were noteworthy, should someday you decide to edit a good poem to make it better, Melissa.

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Thanks, I do think the rhythm can be improved. Right now, all my creative energy is focused on finishing my novella, then I may revisit it.

A lovely poem if not perfect. i left you a comment. Poems are like flowers you create; they come in millions of shapes, sizes, colors, fragrances. Just as in flowersSome people like roses others find them sweet and cloying and prefer camellias while others prefer daffodil or iris. Cherish the praise, accept and use constructive criticism, and delete the trolls!

I'm gods awful at poetry, I can't even write a dirty Limerick! So I have the utmost respect anyone who can wax lyrical with words. You've written about a very personal tragedy and I can't even begin to understand what you went through or felt. And odds are the majority of your readers won't either. Let's face it, a lot internet dwellers have the emotional capacity of a brick. Just as you get guys on this thread blasting out unwanted and crass PMs you'll also get unwanted and cruel critique about your work. Though it's difficult not to take comments like the one you received personally, it's important to remember these people are strangers. They don't know. They don't understand. Disregard them and focus on the comments that are helpful. From those who like your work and even the constructive critique. For what it's worth I am very sorry about what happened to you.

SissiBobbi said:

A lovely poem if not perfect. i left you a comment. Poems are like flowers you create; they come in millions of shapes, sizes, colors, fragrances. Just as in flowersSome people like roses others find them sweet and cloying and prefer camellias while others prefer daffodil or iris. Cherish the praise, accept and use constructive criticism, and delete the trolls!

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Bobbi, I am very touched by your comments here and on the poem page. Thank you for your kindness and your helpful critique.

doog_kuron1 said:

I'm gods awful at poetry, I can't even write a dirty Limerick! So I have the utmost respect anyone who can wax lyrical with words. You've written about a very personal tragedy and I can't even begin to understand what you went through or felt. And odds are the majority of your readers won't either. Let's face it, a lot internet dwellers have the emotional capacity of a brick. Just as you get guys on this thread blasting out unwanted and crass PMs you'll also get unwanted and cruel critique about your work. Though it's difficult not to take comments like the one you received personally, it's important to remember these people are strangers. They don't know. They don't understand. Disregard them and focus on the comments that are helpful. From those who like your work and even the constructive critique. For what it's worth I am very sorry about what happened to you.

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Doog, thank you for your supportive comments. Generally, I expect a certain percentage of people on the internet to be rude or crass, but to get such a response on this particular subject really surprised me. But, as you said, they don't know.

MelissaBaby said:

Bobbi, I am very touched by your comments here and on the poem page. Thank you for your kindness and your helpful critique.

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thinking aloud, mel

just one person's opinion, take or leave what you want and i'll address the poem as a standalone write, not the sorrowful event of miscarriage. been there.

since i'm unsure of the correct layout you subbed, i've broken it up here using the caps as markers. i think it works laid out this way, allowing the reader to digest each image with the pause before the next. whilst the heartbeat of a foetus is very rapid, and the lines all running without breaks makes a faster read to possibly underscore that, this is written from the p.o.v of the bereaved mother. a slower, more accepting pace suits it better.

so! firstly, the title: have you considered changing it? it may say exactly what you want it to - but does it work best for the poem? over on the published poems, i said it's more prosaic than the beautiful poem/memorial deserves. a single word might work better and which you'd choose would depend on the slant you want to add to it - the pov of the mother, or the acknowledgment of the death, i.e 'Mother' (as there has been a pregnancy and, despite the physical loss, the ties live on and so the title is still valid) or something like 'Ghosting', reflecting the ongoing motion of the mingled bloods and that deeper thing... you understand

i admire the restrained use of language, your lack of verbosity in this piece. it's a subject many have written on, and many have used it to allow a torrent of words to spill onto the page, usually to the detriment of the actual poem even as it can be cathartic for the writer at the same time. this piece is held together, like arms around your own body, containing - the pain, the loss? if anything, i feel it's amplified by the sparse/simplistic layout.

i have no problems with the repetitions of 'blood'; it's a vital component to any pregnancy, whether that results in a live birth or a sad loss. it's vital and links to the heartbeat, to the cycling and mingling of the blood, to the womb's purpose, to the losses involved in any birth, miscarriage or not. the way you've swapped it up each time prevents it from becoming tired/cliche, and the very repetitions themselves create a cyclical feeling as the mixed bloods pump around and around the body, cycled by the beating heart... mixed blood that passes through every part of the mother's body. it also works well with the framing of the first and last 3 lines, where the word is absent but is absolutely linked to the heart and to being alive.

i have a small problem with 'traces of the lost one linger/flowing in the lifestream of the one remaining' - it feels too much in my mouth, more in my mouth than in my head/heart/body and so acts as a small distraction. not got a general problem with introducing a longer line in an otherwise short-lined piece if the poem works better that way; for me, this is more about the wording. needs jiggling about somehow. 'flow' as opposed to 'flowing', maybe more 'traces of the lost still linger/ in the lifestream of the one who's left behind', dunno, just something needs addressing there, imo. by dropping 'flowing' it removes it as a repetition a few lines later; once again, nothing against reps, they can lend continuity, pace, reinforcement to a piece. someone once told me that reps generally work best in 3's, and i'd not suggest adding another 'flowing' in this instance.

i enjoyed your punctuation choices; open-ended as these verses (stanzas/strophes/never quite sure what to call them) are, they 'flow on'. a period would bring each individual image to a sharp halt and that would be detrimental to this piece which is ALL about the flow, the cycling, the continuing on....
Using the caps where you have serve the purpose of introducing of the next visuals as well as being aesthetically pleasing on the page/screen.

i like this piece a lot and can connect with the bleeding, which you hand to us in this quiet fashion that lets the reader know it'll never go away but you don't need to hand the reader a tourniquet to get them through it.

Mother of a Ghost
byMelissaBaby©

One heart beats
then two
then one again

But the blood is joined
traces of the lost one linger
flowing in the lifestream of the one remaining
never gone

A ghost in her blood
always flowing within her
through her womb
through her heart
through all of her days

A life unlived
yet alive in her blood

One life
then two
then one again

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just one person's opinion, take or leave what you want and i'll address the poem as a standalone write, not the sorrowful event of miscarriage. been there.

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I appreciate you taking the time to give me such a detailed critique, butters, thank you.

since i'm unsure of the correct layout you subbed, i've broken it up here using the caps as markers. i think it works laid out this way, allowing the reader to digest each image with the pause before the next. whilst the heartbeat of a foetus is very rapid, and the lines all running without breaks makes a faster read to possibly underscore that, this is written from the p.o.v of the bereaved mother. a slower, more accepting pace suits it better.

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That's an excellent point, and I really like the way you reformatted it.

so! firstly, the title: have you considered changing it? it may say exactly what you want it to - but does it work best for the poem? over on the published poems, i said it's more prosaic than the beautiful poem/memorial deserves. a single word might work better and which you'd choose would depend on the slant you want to add to it - the pov of the mother, or the acknowledgment of the death, i.e 'Mother' (as there has been a pregnancy and, despite the physical loss, the ties live on and so the title is still valid) or something like 'Ghosting', reflecting the ongoing motion of the mingled bloods and that deeper thing... you understand :rose

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The title is a phrase that floated in my head for a long time, so I would hate to lose it, but your point is well taken. (In my profile, I refer to myself as "daughter of a goddess, mother of a ghost.") Perhaps I can somehow incorporate the phrase into the body of the poem.

i admire the restrained use of language, your lack of verbosity in this piece. it's a subject many have written on, and many have used it to allow a torrent of words to spill onto the page, usually to the detriment of the actual poem even as it can be cathartic for the writer at the same time. this piece is held together, like arms around your own body, containing - the pain, the loss? if anything, i feel it's amplified by the sparse/simplistic layout.

Click to expand...

I wanted to get as close to pure feeling as I could and still be articulate. It was the connection of mother and lost child that i sought to convey, and not any reflection on it's meaning beyond the lingering grief. I think I came pretty close. I hope I did.

i have no problems with the repetitions of 'blood'; it's a vital component to any pregnancy, whether that results in a live birth or a sad loss. it's vital and links to the heartbeat, to the cycling and mingling of the blood, to the womb's purpose, to the losses involved in any birth, miscarriage or not. the way you've swapped it up each time prevents it from becoming tired/cliche, and the very repetitions themselves create a cyclical feeling as the mixed bloods pump around and around the body, cycled by the beating heart... mixed blood that passes through every part of the mother's body. it also works well with the framing of the first and last 3 lines, where the word is absent but is absolutely linked to the heart and to being alive.

Click to expand...

Yes, thank you. It seems I hit the mark I was going for.

i have a small problem with 'traces of the lost one linger/flowing in the lifestream of the one remaining' - it feels too much in my mouth, more in my mouth than in my head/heart/body and so acts as a small distraction. not got a general problem with introducing a longer line in an otherwise short-lined piece if the poem works better that way; for me, this is more about the wording. needs jiggling about somehow. 'flow' as opposed to 'flowing', maybe more 'traces of the lost still linger/ in the lifestream of the one who's left behind', dunno, just something needs addressing there, imo. by dropping 'flowing' it removes it as a repetition a few lines later; once again, nothing against reps, they can lend continuity, pace, reinforcement to a piece. someone once told me that reps generally work best in 3's, and i'd not suggest adding another 'flowing' in this instance.

Click to expand...

This was the most difficult part for me, and I think it shows. I was inspired by an article about new medical evidence that the DNA of the mother and child remain not only in each other's blood, but is actually incorporated in their cells and is passed down to the next generation. I found that breathtaking, that I carry the DNA of my mother and her mother, and if I have a child, I will forge another link in the chain. It made the loss of my child feel even more profound. Perhaps it's a bigger bite than I could chew in my first attempt.

i enjoyed your punctuation choices; open-ended as these verses (stanzas/strophes/never quite sure what to call them) are, they 'flow on'. a period would bring each individual image to a sharp halt and that would be detrimental to this piece which is ALL about the flow, the cycling, the continuing on....
Using the caps where you have serve the purpose of introducing of the next visuals as well as being aesthetically pleasing on the page/screen.

i like this piece a lot and can connect with the bleeding, which you hand to us in this quiet fashion that lets the reader know it'll never go away but you don't need to hand the reader a tourniquet to get them through it.

Click to expand...

butters, thank you so much for taking the time to offer your thoughts. When I am ready to resist this post, I will read them again.

You are a dear heart.

MelissaBaby said:

I appreciate you taking the time to give me such a detailed critique, butters, thank you.



That's an excellent point, and I really like the way you reformatted it.



The title is a phrase that floated in my head for a long time, so I would hate to lose it, but your point is well taken. (In my profile, I refer to myself as "daughter of a goddess, mother of a ghost.") Perhaps I can somehow incorporate the phrase into the body of the poem.



I wanted to get as close to pure feeling as I could and still be articulate. It was the connection of mother and lost child that i sought to convey, and not any reflection on it's meaning beyond the lingering grief. I think I came pretty close. I hope I did.



Yes, thank you. It seems I hit the mark I was going for.



This was the most difficult part for me, and I think it shows. I was inspired by an article about new medical evidence that the DNA of the mother and child remain not only in each other's blood, but is actually incorporated in their cells and is passed down to the next generation. I found that breathtaking, that I carry the DNA of my mother and her mother, and if I have a child, I will forge another link in the chain. It made the loss of my child feel even more profound. Perhaps it's a bigger bite than I could chew in my first attempt.



butters, thank you so much for taking the time to offer your thoughts. When I am ready to resist this post, I will read them again.

You are a dear heart.

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food for thought, is all, and you're welcome - it helps me get more in the mood for writing, myself.

you need to resist this post? should i read that as revisit?

butters said:

food for thought, is all, and you're welcome - it helps me get more in the mood for writing, myself.

you need to resist this post? should i read that as revisit?

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What I need to resist is posting on my phone!

Thank you again, dear.

i understand your attachment to the title as is, especially given your profile entry. and there's no reason not to have 2 titles over various incarnations of your poem, or even one as a 'working title' to retain that connection you feel with it.

re the DNA aspect: wondering if a reference to the double helix in a title would reinforce the message later in the piece about 'traces'

still too soon to think about this stuff, just notes left here for future consideration to use or toss as it suits