Obama Didn't Kill Coal, the Market Did

It is impossible to watch the 'fillers' at work without feeling a pang of envy for their toughness. It is a dreadful job that they do, an almost superhuman job by the standard of an ordinary person. For they are not only shifting monstrous quantities of coal, they are also doing, it in a position that doubles or trebles the work. They have got to remain kneeling all the while–they could hardly rise from their knees without hitting the ceiling–and you can easily see by trying it what a tremendous effort this means. Shovelling is comparatively easy when you are standing up, because you can use your knee and thigh to drive the shovel along; kneeling down, the whole of the strain is thrown upon your arm and belly muscles. And the other conditions do not exactly make things easier. There is the heat–it varies, but in some mines it is suffocating–and the coal dust that stuffs up your throat and nostrils and collects along your eyelids, and the unending rattle of the conveyor belt, which in that confined space is rather like the rattle of a machine gun. But the fillers look and work as though they were made of iron. They really do look like iron hammered iron statues–under the smooth coat of coal dust which clings to them from head to foot. It is only when you see miners down the mine and naked that you realize what splendid men, they are. Most of them are small (big men are at a disadvantage in that job) but nearly all of them have the most noble bodies; wide shoulders tapering to slender supple waists, and small pronounced buttocks and sinewy thighs, with not an ounce of waste flesh anywhere. In the hotter mines they wear only a pair of thin drawers, clogs and knee-pads; in the hottest mines of all, only the clogs and knee-pads. You can hardly tell by the look of them whether they are young or old. They may be any age up to sixty or even sixty-five, but when they are black and naked they all look alike. No one could do their work who had not a young man's body, and a figure fit for a guardsman at that, just a few pounds of extra flesh on the waist-line, and the constant bending would be impossible. You can never forget that spectacle once you have seen it–the line of bowed, kneeling figures, sooty black all over, driving their, huge shovels under the coal with stupendous force and speed. They are on the job for seven and a half hours, theoretically without a break, for there is no time 'off'. Actually they, snatch a quarter of an hour or so at some time during the shift to eat the food they have brought with them, usually a hunk of bread and dripping and a bottle of cold tea. The first time I was watching the 'fillers' at work I put my hand upon some dreadful slimy thing among the coal dust. It was a chewed quid of tobacco. Nearly all the miners chew tobacco, which is said to be good against thirst.

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KingOrfeo said:

You load 16 tons, and whaddaya get . . .

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sharingfantasies said:

I understand the coal miners side. It is their lifestyle and their job. It is their way of feeding their families. I understand that they have some deep trust that Trump is going to single-handedly open the mines again.

I understand that the market for coal has changed dramatically over the past couple of decades, if not longer, so many houses and businesses wouldn't be able to use coal even if it was being produced again at the amounts it was being produced before.

What I don't understand is, given how difficult and deadly working coal mines is, why coal miners wouldn't want to be trained in doing something else. Something less hazardous to their health. How do they figure they can support their families if they are dying of lung disease or caught in a cave-in? If they are being given an opportunity to improve their lives, the lives of their families, their children, why do they want the mines reopened?

I guess it comes back to the lifestyle. "My family has worked in the mines for generations so I should also" thinking. But then I want to shake them and say, "Your family has died because of those mines for generations, that doesn't mean you have to also."

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Maidboy said:

Coal mining is no longer workers going down mine shafts to extract the stuff. It's energy companies blasting away mountain tops, hauling the coal away, and leaving the locals to suffer the environmental damage (soil erosion, water contamination etc).

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cfuhrer said:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surface_Mining_Control_and_Reclamation_Act_of_1977

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Maidboy said:

This very weak regulation (companies are left to pretty much self-regulate) has been routinely violated by companies, with their paltry fines simply written off as the price of doing business.

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The EPA has taken responsibility for the incident, but refused to pay for any damages claims filed after the accident on grounds of sovereign immunity, pending special authorization from Congress or re-filing of lawsuits in federal court.[9] Governor of Colorado John Hickenlooper declared the affected area a disaster zone. The spill affects waterways of municipalities in the states of Colorado, New Mexico, and Utah, as well as the Navajo Nation.

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cfuhrer said:

You mean like the EPA at Gold King, Colo.?

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BoyNextDoor said:

Critics of the Environmental Protection Agency’s new Clean Power Plan are describing it in apocalyptic terms. But much of what they believe about the plan -- that it will destroy the coal industry, kill jobs and raise costs for consumers -- is wrong. And it’s important to understand why."

As true as when it was written in 2015

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Beco said:

Obama threw dirt on the casket, but you're right, he didn't kill the US industry. But coal isn't dead just yet, it's just that it isn't growing. China, Japan, India, will continue to use the stuff, but China has put restrictions on coal, and china was the world's biggest user. India is ramping up coal use, but also looking at Renewables. Coal will be around for a while...

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Maidboy said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_Gold_King_Mine_waste_water_spill

No, not at all, as this was a long derelict gold mine that had long been leaching waste water downstream already. The EPA was attempting to clean up the mess because (according to the Wiki article you quoted) local authorities refused EPA funds to clean it up themselves. And of course the mining company, who created the mess in the first place, pulled up stakes decades ago. Yes, EPA contractors badly botched the clean up effort and worsened an already bad situation, but this incident only further demonstrates my overall point...

Private mining companies foul the environment, and leave the clean up bill to us taxpayers. If the Republicans in Congress are really as concerned for the people affected by this disaster as they claim to be, they can authorize further payment of damages claims. But I'm not holding my breath.

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cfuhrer said:

So you're okay with the hypocrisy? That tracks

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Rightguide said:

Obama reached down and hamstrung them when they were down.

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Maidboy said:

Private mining companies foul the environment, and leave the clean up bill to us taxpayers.

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Maidboy said:

I only hope that the EPA gets the authorization and funding from Congress to do right by the Navajo nation and others adversely affected by this environmental disaster.

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Maidboy said:

Are you okay with the residents of West Virginia having their water contaminated by the recklessness of Freedom Industries in the Elk River chemical spill?

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Maidboy said:

Do you think "kids right out of high school" can earn a decent living building and maintaining wind turbines, installing solar panels, and upgrading the electricity grid?

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Maidboy said:

Or is tearing up the mountainsides for coal still the way to go?

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BotanyBoy said:

They don't clean up, they just bill taxpayers. It's a government extortion program.

LOL.

The EPA is no longer a progressive weapon of social justice, them days are the fuck over.

Yep, that sounds like a West Virginia problem.

Not at all, it's for uppity (D)'s only and I have a feeling those industries are going to be sucking without mega billions coming from (D) anymore.

Cheaper than poisoning the oceans for solar panels.

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Maidboy said:

Your well reasoned and eloquent rebuttal, citing sources for you information, is truly thought provoking.

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Maidboy said:

I mean, who would have guessed that mining companies and the EPA have collaborated to form an elaborate extortion racket

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Maidboy said:

, that solar panels pollute the oceans,

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Maidboy said:

and that engineers, electricians and construction workers are all "uppity (D)'s?"

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Maidboy said:

Thank you and give my regards to Pepe.

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sharingfantasies said:

I understand the coal miners side. It is their lifestyle and their job. It is their way of feeding their families. I understand that they have some deep trust that Trump is going to single-handedly open the mines again.

I understand that the market for coal has changed dramatically over the past couple of decades, if not longer, so many houses and businesses wouldn't be able to use coal even if it was being produced again at the amounts it was being produced before.

What I don't understand is, given how difficult and deadly working coal mines is, why coal miners wouldn't want to be trained in doing something else. Something less hazardous to their health. How do they figure they can support their families if they are dying of lung disease or caught in a cave-in? If they are being given an opportunity to improve their lives, the lives of their families, their children, why do they want the mines reopened?

I guess it comes back to the lifestyle. "My family has worked in the mines for generations so I should also" thinking. But then I want to shake them and say, "Your family has died because of those mines for generations, that doesn't mean you have to also."

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BotanyBoy said:

Anyone paying attention to US politics, just follow the money.

Yes. Follow the money all the way to the CEO's Cayman Island bank account.

Easily found by google, making panels is nasty bidniz.

Yes, all manufacturing processes pollute to some degree, but making solar panels isn't as nasty you make it out to be. But I'll concede that solar panel production in places with lax environmental regulation such as China is pretty nasty...

http://spectrum.ieee.org/green-tech/solar/solar-energy-isnt-always-as-green-as-you-think

You should see the mines used to make all those fancy batteries for those "green" cars, some of which charge on dirty electricity.

I never brought up the subject of electric or hybrid cars, but yes I agree that they're not nearly as "green" as their proponents make them out to be. So you concede that coal generated electricity is dirty? What about wind turbines?

Those slaves? LOL they aren't making money.....they are just the slaves of the uppity (D)'s. They vote (D) because they know without (D) funding and protection they are fucked.

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