J
JAMESBJOHNSON
Guest
The truth is most people struggle with the same desires and fail. Its almost always Ulysses and the Sirens but we aint tied to no mast, and race to the rocks.
The truth is most people struggle with the same desires and fail. Its almost always Ulysses and the Sirens but we aint tied to no mast, and race to the rocks.
Desiremakesmeweak
Literotica Guru
- Joined
- Jun 7, 2012
- Posts
- 2,060
You're so fucking twisted, Johnson, your stories always have something basically EVEN MORE TWISTED than the superficially obvious twisted themes.
I think that's called 'style...' Which is supposed to be a good thing.
I know you're probably going to say 'I'm not twisted, I just encountered a lot of twisted humans over many years.'
HOWEVER to consider your point more seriously. I think this is one of the few cases in human psychology, where this idea about 'nature/nuture' - slightly modified - has a role.
Time, I think, rather than 'nuture' has a huge impact on what people BECOME, and on how they will be capable of relating to others. There are numerous psychological case studies of people who were separated for a long time and became sexually attracted when re-united; and then again there are cases where they changed so radically due to just plain life, I guess, that family members don't get on at all, or become estranged in every way.
For me the real problem with a lot of genre (or CATEGORY!!) labelling that goes on, especially in sex entertainment or erotica, is that it tries to make 'little' generalisations about humans - impossible, in reality, unless those people themselves are prepared to be all 'sinusoidally modulated' as it were. IE - one size fits all.
For a start, A WHOLE LOT OF THE HUMAN RACE, changes over not that many years - the twenty-something year old turns into a quite different middle-aged person, the high school jock becomes an overweight insomniac truckie, et cetera. 'The high point' of each of their sex lives is only a fraction of their whole life. And then the rest becomes a set of attempts to recapture lost time.
Undifferentiated 'simple' erotica is grossly unrealistic to life.
Which is why I think to some extent, say for just one particular example here, the noir stylistic approach, is actually MORE realistic and relevant to the human condition, because the ideas and themes there reach much further into people - deep down inside them - than just one or two sexual encounters, or even five or ten years' worth of sex.
Sci-fi has extended thematic reach, too. Comedy does. Incest just for the sake of 'taboo,' is like a lot of other taboos in the modern era - losing its transgressional feel. Well, maybe not in the minds of absolutely everyone, but when you can open any newspaper and see that there are 1400 celebrities and serving politicians factually implicated in kiddie porn and child sex rings in a major police inquiry in the UK, or when you can see Bruce Jenner 'transition' from a male, to a surgically modified male but pretending to be a 'woman,' at best a 'female,' (this the media calls 'transgendered' which of course it is certainly not). But the kids, meaning today's generation of young adults, are informed by every kind of CGI disaster/violence/transgressional/iconoclastic supercilious propaganda imaginable... Incest has already featured in South Park numerous times...
Thus the hot-button 'attraction' value of incest becomes - on its own - just another short-term sexual frenzy opportunity. And 'sexual frenzy opportunity' is too over-available in the modern world to be really important as literature. If it's 'JUST' about incestuous sex.
Not that we're necessarily all talking 'literature' here necessarily.
I mean I saw this fairly recent John Travolta flick in which he plays some nutcase CIA guy (have never met one in real life although I have met a couple of nutcase MI6 people - males and females...) - who essentially went absolutely totally over-the-top mean/cruel/violent/bizarre/weird, and in the end it was like, so, where do shock movies go from here?
Ergo - how about a lesbian, switch BDSM, strap-on using, 'mature mother,' whose transgendered piss-fetishist son (who was abused by the father) has sex with his mother in a consentual 'fake-rape' scene following a dogging meet-up via a Craigslist ad after/during a masquerade party where neither knows who each one is - and then they try asphyxiation erotic play and kill each other in paroxysms of delight as the sun sets through the spreading dark cloud of a WMD explosion let off by an NSA boss bugging them and everyone else too who looses his marbles out of sheer disgust with the human race.
I don't think 'kink' is meaningful anymore. Or even perversion.
Nuance is.
I think that's called 'style...' Which is supposed to be a good thing.
I know you're probably going to say 'I'm not twisted, I just encountered a lot of twisted humans over many years.'
HOWEVER to consider your point more seriously. I think this is one of the few cases in human psychology, where this idea about 'nature/nuture' - slightly modified - has a role.
Time, I think, rather than 'nuture' has a huge impact on what people BECOME, and on how they will be capable of relating to others. There are numerous psychological case studies of people who were separated for a long time and became sexually attracted when re-united; and then again there are cases where they changed so radically due to just plain life, I guess, that family members don't get on at all, or become estranged in every way.
For me the real problem with a lot of genre (or CATEGORY!!) labelling that goes on, especially in sex entertainment or erotica, is that it tries to make 'little' generalisations about humans - impossible, in reality, unless those people themselves are prepared to be all 'sinusoidally modulated' as it were. IE - one size fits all.
For a start, A WHOLE LOT OF THE HUMAN RACE, changes over not that many years - the twenty-something year old turns into a quite different middle-aged person, the high school jock becomes an overweight insomniac truckie, et cetera. 'The high point' of each of their sex lives is only a fraction of their whole life. And then the rest becomes a set of attempts to recapture lost time.
Undifferentiated 'simple' erotica is grossly unrealistic to life.
Which is why I think to some extent, say for just one particular example here, the noir stylistic approach, is actually MORE realistic and relevant to the human condition, because the ideas and themes there reach much further into people - deep down inside them - than just one or two sexual encounters, or even five or ten years' worth of sex.
Sci-fi has extended thematic reach, too. Comedy does. Incest just for the sake of 'taboo,' is like a lot of other taboos in the modern era - losing its transgressional feel. Well, maybe not in the minds of absolutely everyone, but when you can open any newspaper and see that there are 1400 celebrities and serving politicians factually implicated in kiddie porn and child sex rings in a major police inquiry in the UK, or when you can see Bruce Jenner 'transition' from a male, to a surgically modified male but pretending to be a 'woman,' at best a 'female,' (this the media calls 'transgendered' which of course it is certainly not). But the kids, meaning today's generation of young adults, are informed by every kind of CGI disaster/violence/transgressional/iconoclastic supercilious propaganda imaginable... Incest has already featured in South Park numerous times...
Thus the hot-button 'attraction' value of incest becomes - on its own - just another short-term sexual frenzy opportunity. And 'sexual frenzy opportunity' is too over-available in the modern world to be really important as literature. If it's 'JUST' about incestuous sex.
Not that we're necessarily all talking 'literature' here necessarily.
I mean I saw this fairly recent John Travolta flick in which he plays some nutcase CIA guy (have never met one in real life although I have met a couple of nutcase MI6 people - males and females...) - who essentially went absolutely totally over-the-top mean/cruel/violent/bizarre/weird, and in the end it was like, so, where do shock movies go from here?
Ergo - how about a lesbian, switch BDSM, strap-on using, 'mature mother,' whose transgendered piss-fetishist son (who was abused by the father) has sex with his mother in a consentual 'fake-rape' scene following a dogging meet-up via a Craigslist ad after/during a masquerade party where neither knows who each one is - and then they try asphyxiation erotic play and kill each other in paroxysms of delight as the sun sets through the spreading dark cloud of a WMD explosion let off by an NSA boss bugging them and everyone else too who looses his marbles out of sheer disgust with the human race.
I don't think 'kink' is meaningful anymore. Or even perversion.
Nuance is.
Last edited:
lovecraft68
Bad Doggie
- Joined
- Jul 13, 2009
- Posts
- 42,010
I have a few words for the above post
Fantasy
Escapism
Fun.
Everything you said is correct, but that's why erotica feeds and lives and dies on tropes and cliches, its the fantasies people want
They want the slutty school girl
The professional woman who's really a freak
The married couple who love to swing
etc...etc...
They want the comfortable fantasies not the reality they are given.
Just look here at how many times you can feed a reader the same basic story lines and they all do well....meanwhile try something different-like JBJ does-and look what it gets.
Fantasy, its what erotica readers want and they are in love with the stereo types you mention.
Fantasy
Escapism
Fun.
Everything you said is correct, but that's why erotica feeds and lives and dies on tropes and cliches, its the fantasies people want
They want the slutty school girl
The professional woman who's really a freak
The married couple who love to swing
etc...etc...
They want the comfortable fantasies not the reality they are given.
Just look here at how many times you can feed a reader the same basic story lines and they all do well....meanwhile try something different-like JBJ does-and look what it gets.
Fantasy, its what erotica readers want and they are in love with the stereo types you mention.
Last edited:
Black_and_White_Writer
Literotica Guru
- Joined
- Feb 3, 2015
- Posts
- 766
*Slight* Deviation But It Gets The Point Across
Bravo!
So true! I'm currently writing an Interracial Love, and although the black male in the story is a very go-getting, dominant man, but more intelligent than one of Stormbringers vile drug enhanced gorilla like characters my character using his intelligence, charm and luck to score with the white wife of the title.
There won't be any of the 'niggaz' racism or the 'Ghetto' gangster rap, gun culture, booty, ho's and all that terribly derivative clap-trap you get in this.
I mean I'd love to read a story with a man who possesses a large penis, grapefruit sized testicles (Hmmm elephantitus I'm thinking) or a body that makes Arnold Schwarzenegger look totally anorexic. My character will be realistically drawn and treated with respect, dignity and above all else a good dose of realism. So I'm expecting a lot of grief of the anonymous trolls who are so ridiculously entertaining.
As a very good writer once said "fantasy in whatever shape or genre is only one step away from reality. It's like Star Trek. They're not writing about the future, they're writing about today." I must agree with that.
Why do I like Incest Erotica? Easy. It gets me off. I find it a fun, dark pleasure. The characters by and large are well written and lovingly maneuvered into their respective destinies. My favourite is the father and daughter and brother and sister sub genre. These are my big favourites.
Another thing I like is they're often highly imaginative in the engineering that take place to give rise to the participants becoming lovers. If I want reality I'll read Alan Bennett. I want fantasy. So give me Literotica's incest/taboo pages.
Bravo!
So true! I'm currently writing an Interracial Love, and although the black male in the story is a very go-getting, dominant man, but more intelligent than one of Stormbringers vile drug enhanced gorilla like characters my character using his intelligence, charm and luck to score with the white wife of the title.
There won't be any of the 'niggaz' racism or the 'Ghetto' gangster rap, gun culture, booty, ho's and all that terribly derivative clap-trap you get in this.
I mean I'd love to read a story with a man who possesses a large penis, grapefruit sized testicles (Hmmm elephantitus I'm thinking) or a body that makes Arnold Schwarzenegger look totally anorexic. My character will be realistically drawn and treated with respect, dignity and above all else a good dose of realism. So I'm expecting a lot of grief of the anonymous trolls who are so ridiculously entertaining.
As a very good writer once said "fantasy in whatever shape or genre is only one step away from reality. It's like Star Trek. They're not writing about the future, they're writing about today." I must agree with that.
Why do I like Incest Erotica? Easy. It gets me off. I find it a fun, dark pleasure. The characters by and large are well written and lovingly maneuvered into their respective destinies. My favourite is the father and daughter and brother and sister sub genre. These are my big favourites.
Another thing I like is they're often highly imaginative in the engineering that take place to give rise to the participants becoming lovers. If I want reality I'll read Alan Bennett. I want fantasy. So give me Literotica's incest/taboo pages.
lovecraft68
Bad Doggie
- Joined
- Jul 13, 2009
- Posts
- 42,010
If you make your black character well educated and well spoken and, respectful and well mannered.... they may throw you out of the category
Black_and_White_Writer
Literotica Guru
- Joined
- Feb 3, 2015
- Posts
- 766
If you make your black character well educated and well spoken and, respectful and well mannered.... they may throw you out of the category
LOL
Very true.
Carnal_Flower
Literotica Guru
- Joined
- May 31, 2014
- Posts
- 6,896
I don't think it's just because it's taboo. A lot of it also is the fact that you know this person. The love is a given--and it's a love you will never find with anyone else, period. The love you have for a mother/father/sibling is totally unique and is bound up with a million powerful fantasies about maleness, femaleness, sexuality, etc. Adding actual sex to that is the attraction, I think. Not so much just because it's some kind of unique kink.
No one knows you like your brother, sister. No other relationship you will ever have can compare to a mother/father. A huge appeal of incest, and what makes almost every single other category so boring and tedious, is that you do not have to work up a relationship. It's already there. It's built in to the category. The sex is hot (in part) because so much is already present, more than you can ever get in any other genre, and all you're doing is adding sex to something that has been cooking for the entire life of the characters.
A lot of writers say "The sex won't be hot unless the characters and emotions are there." True. Does that not explain incest fantasy right there? What more powerful characters and emotions are there? Every other genre pales in comparison.
Take silkstockinglover.
Her stuff is basically sexualizing the Jerry Springer version of family love. If you're more used to dysfunction than love, then that's what's getting sexed up, and that's what a LOT of people like. All that making them a slave, degrading them, it's an extension of mom berating a teenager, yelling at each other, etc. Her stuff makes a lot more sense when you see it that way.
Thankfully most incest writers eroticize actual love and caring and not that version.
It's not just waking up and thinking "I'm bored. Should I try hmmm anal or incest today?" It's not just a "spice". If you think that, you're not getting it.
No one knows you like your brother, sister. No other relationship you will ever have can compare to a mother/father. A huge appeal of incest, and what makes almost every single other category so boring and tedious, is that you do not have to work up a relationship. It's already there. It's built in to the category. The sex is hot (in part) because so much is already present, more than you can ever get in any other genre, and all you're doing is adding sex to something that has been cooking for the entire life of the characters.
A lot of writers say "The sex won't be hot unless the characters and emotions are there." True. Does that not explain incest fantasy right there? What more powerful characters and emotions are there? Every other genre pales in comparison.
Take silkstockinglover.
Her stuff is basically sexualizing the Jerry Springer version of family love. If you're more used to dysfunction than love, then that's what's getting sexed up, and that's what a LOT of people like. All that making them a slave, degrading them, it's an extension of mom berating a teenager, yelling at each other, etc. Her stuff makes a lot more sense when you see it that way.
Thankfully most incest writers eroticize actual love and caring and not that version.
It's not just waking up and thinking "I'm bored. Should I try hmmm anal or incest today?" It's not just a "spice". If you think that, you're not getting it.
J
JAMESBJOHNSON
Guest
Here in the South we're constantly linked to brutes from books like TOBACCO ROAD and worse. My grandfather graduated Ole Miss, Vanderbilt, and MIT in Boston. His father graduated Ole Miss and Harvard. So fuck the poor Darkies if life is unfair.
J
JAMESBJOHNSON
Guest
Wherever I've been in life I've witnessed depravity as the common human experience. I was deluded believing people practice their moral philosophies. They don't, they look around to see who's watching, and stick it in Ma. And Ma says, THATS MY BOY.
I make it a point to pay a good price for pussy, and give her a wink and a fair tip. That all she wants.
lovecraft68
Bad Doggie
- Joined
- Jul 13, 2009
- Posts
- 42,010
Funny you mention Silk...I just got this comment today
by Anonymous
05/31/15
Where is the sequal?
Great story, loved the build up and anticipation. I'm sure I'm not the only reader who would love to know about the dad and aunt Sin or the week long visit. Big fan of your writing by the way, you and silk stockingslover are awesome
Interesting because Silk's style and mine could not be more different as you said she writes porn, flat out porn just look at some of the titles, I write more emotionally driven slow burns. So this shows people will enjoy both. Although this story was a bit Stroky "Auntie Sin" wasn't exactly about love
elfin_odalisque
Literotica Guru
- Joined
- Feb 3, 2004
- Posts
- 10,056
Yes, but why the taboo?
In theory, all sexual activity here features over 18's. This is not 'kiddy porn'.
With all the genetic tests now available, the risks of inherited problems is practically zero. This 'cousins up to umpteen times removed' belongs in the dark ages.
We have agreed that all GLBT sex should be welcomed, even though sodomy of any kind was illegal for many centuries.
Drop the laws, which are no longer 'fit for purpose' and, heck, why can't mothers marry their sons with a suitable health clearance.
I am friends with a couple of maiden aunts/sisters who can't understand why they can't get the legal contract of being legally conjoint. It matters both emotionally and legally.
J
JAMESBJOHNSON
Guest
Embrace communism! End private property and inheritance!
Black_and_White_Writer
Literotica Guru
- Joined
- Feb 3, 2015
- Posts
- 766
Hmmmm, file under can't distinguish reality from fantasy.
Who'd want to live in a world where sons marry their Mum's?
Certainly not me. I don't think anyone else would... unless you're living in some weirdly fucked up parts of Asia. There are a lot of Muslim communities who think brothers marrying sisters and fathers their daughters is perfectly fine.
Note how it's all 'males' imposing their will on 'females' not the females wanting to do it of their free will. Like child prostitution and child soldiers it's just a sad fact of their lives. Sadly in many countries females aren't treated much better than livestock.
That's the reality of incest in the real world.
The 'American Pie' scenario is a nice fantasy, but that's all - and where it should/must remain.
Who'd want to live in a world where sons marry their Mum's?
Certainly not me. I don't think anyone else would... unless you're living in some weirdly fucked up parts of Asia. There are a lot of Muslim communities who think brothers marrying sisters and fathers their daughters is perfectly fine.
Note how it's all 'males' imposing their will on 'females' not the females wanting to do it of their free will. Like child prostitution and child soldiers it's just a sad fact of their lives. Sadly in many countries females aren't treated much better than livestock.
That's the reality of incest in the real world.
The 'American Pie' scenario is a nice fantasy, but that's all - and where it should/must remain.
elfin_odalisque
Literotica Guru
- Joined
- Feb 3, 2004
- Posts
- 10,056
What about fathers marrying their daughters?
You have no problem, it seems, with fathers going to bed with their daughters, but draw the line at emotional commitment.
That's hypocritical.
Sorry, just getting pissed off with incest being treated as deadly sin.
You have no problem, it seems, with fathers going to bed with their daughters, but draw the line at emotional commitment.
That's hypocritical.
Sorry, just getting pissed off with incest being treated as deadly sin.
Black_and_White_Writer
Literotica Guru
- Joined
- Feb 3, 2015
- Posts
- 766
*Fantasy* not reality. There's a big difference discussing story ideas and roleplaying scenarios. I'd never condone something that destroys lives and is hugely scarring to all those involved.
I've turned down so many requests for role play off men that want me to pretend to be someone under the age of 18.
Something I'd never do if I ever were to roleplay.
Also on a more pragmatic level roleplaying something like that could be construed as illegal and could land you in trouble.
Did you know the NSA, CIA, MI5 and FBI alone in the UK regularly trawl the likes of Skype, Kik, Google Hangouts, Yahoo IM and other real-time chat arenas? Well they do. They're very hard on stamping out paedophiles, criminals like drug smugglers and terrorists and their means of communication.
So there is a good chance that someone, somewhere is sifting through your online life.
Last edited:
lovecraft68
Bad Doggie
- Joined
- Jul 13, 2009
- Posts
- 42,010
I believe that people should love who they choose, that we shouldn't have to adhere to rules created by man or some absentee god.
But having said that, I do find that parent/adult child relationships do disturb me a bit.
Mostly because the fact is, as I stated above I highly doubt it started when the child was eighteen and if they were considerably younger than that is abuse.
Now if it was a fact of the attraction not starting until the son/daughter was over eighteen then I would say, sure go for it.
Siblings disturb me less because they are peers, equals, they grow together so unless one is considerably older I don't see it as an abuse or taking advantage of situation
Sibling romance fascinates me. Parent child I get hung up on parent should always know better, but...like I said, go for it providing they are an adult and its consensual
49greg
Literotica Hack
- Joined
- Jan 3, 2012
- Posts
- 1,663
I had never heard of stories about incest, until I found LIt, and mom/son incest was what I first started reading. It was so wrong, and so so so sexy. My first story was a non-consent but an obvious set up for an incest series.
After those first ones I wanted to try other categories, and except for a few LW stories, I've gotten a lot more comments and views from those incest stories. They do come from other countries and all kinds of people.
I've got a few more incest stories "in the works".
8letters
Writing
- Joined
- May 27, 2013
- Posts
- 2,108
You want a plot? I can give you one - a brother sister story, both about 20. It's not really my kind of story and I have over a year's worth of plots already lined up.
sr71plt
Literotica Guru
- Joined
- Jul 18, 2006
- Posts
- 51,871
But do sister-brother go over with a bulk of the incest readers here? Don't they really salivate at the parent-child, older-younger aspect? Doesn't this give them the opportunity to feed their pedophile interests no matter what (wink, wink) ages are specified in the text?
8letters
Writing
- Joined
- May 27, 2013
- Posts
- 2,108
Looking at the top incest stories for the last 30 days
#1 Cousins
#2 Siblings
#3 Siblings
#4 Siblings
#5 Siblings
#6 Siblings
#7 Siblings
#8 Mother/Son
#9 Siblings
#10 Mother/Son
AZMotherLover
Literotica Guru
- Joined
- Mar 20, 2014
- Posts
- 512
Again with this?
This is the description of the son in one of my stories:
Tell me how that appeals to pedos?
sr71plt
Literotica Guru
- Joined
- Jul 18, 2006
- Posts
- 51,871
Would need a broader look than this for any conclusions, but this is interesting preliminary. (and #5 on the list I just saw is mother/son, #10 is an aunt--so both older-younger image.)
Black_and_White_Writer
Literotica Guru
- Joined
- Feb 3, 2015
- Posts
- 766
I had thought it was Daddy/Daughter with the young just turned 18 daughter having her father.
It seems that the Brother/Sister or Son and Mom is more popular.
sr71plt
Literotica Guru
- Joined
- Jul 18, 2006
- Posts
- 51,871
There's no doubt that you would jump to defend your fetish (and thinly disguise it in your writing. wink, wink). Who do you think you're fooling in using the number 18?
Last edited:
