Dominant is not cruel - just the opposite

In my view, my roles as a Dom is one of cherished attention and love that is defined as protection, direction, and satisfying (to both of is) guidance. While certainly there will be punishment and certainly there will be control - it is the intent of the control that is the issue. I am curious if there are others - either subs or does that have a reaction to what I believe is an unreasonable stereotype out there.

I am not sure it is an unreasonable and/or unexpected stereotype. This doesn’t mean I believe it is correct but when you are on the outside looking in and your reference point is vanilla - I think it is a ripe situation for people seeing it as cruel.

When done well and for the right reasons - the D/s dynamic is I think a lot of the things you mentioned. But, I also think - especially given posts I read here - that it is a relationship dynamic that can lend itself to being cruel.

Yes - this stereotype sucks and is far from the truth in many cases. I guess I kind of flipped it to thinking - people are trapped in their own space and I don’t want to fight that battle. They can come to the correct conclusion in their own time.

I am more offended by 50 Shades and the public's misconception that this is the way things are done. I laugh at my cousin's going to this movie and ooooing and ahhhhing... but then they come away with the idea that all Doms are like him.

I just watched 9 1/2 Weeks over the Christmas holiday, research for a story I'm writing, and was a little miffed about the way he's portrayed, as well. These two movies were a lot alike in that respect.

Not all Doms are the same, though. Some have more sadistic tendencies than others, if they have any at all.

After experiencing my first M/s in my mid 20s, I discovered I'm not into humiliation or degradation, so I've looked for other things in my relationships... just as I would in any relationship outside of BDSM.

barefootgirl69 said:

I am more offended by 50 Shades and the public's misconception that this is the way things are done. I laugh at my cousin's going to this movie and ooooing and ahhhhing... but then they come away with the idea that all Doms are like him.

I just watched 9 1/3 Weeks over the Christmas holiday, research for a story I'm writing, and was a little miffed about the way he's portrayed, as well. These two movies were a lot alike in that respect.

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I've come to the conclusion that there's a mainstream consensus that BDSM is best portrayed as an "otherworldly" thing, to give the audience the opportunity to accept or reject it without having to address too early the realisation that it might exist in their own universe. That seems to correspond with portraying kinky people as damaged and dysfunctional rather than fitting into a well-adjusted norm.

I've found most interesting the reactions of people to the film Secretary. I've received expresions of disgust and muttered comments of "that's not love" from those who happily swallowed the Fifty Shades line. I wonder whether that's because the latter is more readily acceptable as a fantasy, whereas the characters in the former are comparatively well-drawn and perhaps disconcertingly real. I don't enjoy every aspect of Secretary, but it's clear in my mind that the underlying relationship that it depicts is positive and healthy for those individuals.

barefootgirl69 said:

Not all Doms are the same, though. Some have more sadistic tendencies than others, if they have any at all.

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Yup! I've recently started to outsource physical sadism to another top who partners me (in a "good cop / bad cop" type of way), as I've realised that I just don't have that in me. That doesn't make me any less of a dom (*breathes and repeats mantra*).

barefootgirl69 said:

After experiencing my first M/s in my mid 20s, I discovered I'm not into humiliation or degradation, so I've looked for other things in my relationships... just as I would in any relationship outside of BDSM.

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I've had to accept that there's part of me that enjoys the idea of inflicting a mild form of humiliation. Part of that acceptance has arisen from me talking to subs and understanding that it can be appealing for them. I still don't quite understand why, but I accept now that it dovetails with an aspect of myself that I previously found shameful.
.

Winstonsalem392 said:

In my view, my roles as a Dom is one of cherished attention and love that is defined as protection, direction, and satisfying (to both of is) guidance. While certainly there will be punishment

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So, let us talk about the bolded part.

Why will there be certainly punishment in your relationships of protection, direction and guidance?

That gave me pause, too. I am a proponent of funishment, but my kink is totally about NOT deserving punishment, being a "good girl." The continuum for BDSM practices is quite large and I don't believe there is a single "Of course there will be this (insert any given topic/act..." that is ALWAYS or CERTAIN.

Punishment is a certainty.

Primalex said:

So, let us talk about the bolded part.

Why will there be certainly punishment in your relationships of protection, direction and guidance?

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It is a critical element of control - and control is the essence of the relationship.

Winstonsalem392 said:

It is a critical element of control - and control is the essence of the relationship.

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Punishment is not a critical element of control in every D/s relationship, though. If we are talking about stereotypes, the fact that there MUST be punishment is certainly one.

I think there is a distinction between correction and punnishment to be made. I'm actually *not* a fan of "funnishment" for the exact reason ToPleaseHim is for it...I'm 100% about not wanting to ever displease my dominant in a way that would deserve or necessitate punishment. I have a very big wall up about funnishment because it seems to defeat the purpose? Maybe I need to think more on that. However, I believe there is a big difference between correction and punishment. To me, it is rooted in the intention of the dominant.
To punish means to deter by negative reenforcement; usually involving withholding of affection or affliction of pain. :/ ...
To correct means to desire to alter behavior using a vast array of psychological, behavioral, and interpersonal tools.
Correction CAN involve physical punishment, but it shouldn't be the only tool in the toolbox.
I'm going to date myself here and say one of the FIRST things that I read that resonated with me much when I was first learning about myself was an article written on castlerealm by Jade called: The Shoebox.
I still have a thread in my submissive's journal called "Shoebox lessons" for this reason. Anyone who hasn't read it; I highly recommend you do.
That said. I believe the OP meant: in a relationship of guidance , protection, and direction; we as humans who happen to be pyl will fail. We will come up lacking by will, intent, or accident. If by will or intent then IMHO to preserve the dynamic there should be correction, but it should be metted out with wisdom, purpose, and actively ( thoughtfully) not reactively ( impulse/ ego/ anger etc).

Why does it bring you pleasure to cause me pain?

I don’t understand.

AlotLikePsyche said:

Why does it bring you pleasure to cause me pain?

I don’t understand.

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It wouldn't bring me pleasure if it doesn't bring YOU pleasure. I'm sure that's true for most dominants.

There are many people who find pain and restraints pleasurable, with a right partner and in a right situations. Like, even hardcore caning that leaves bruises, that HURTS to tears - there are people who find that exciting and even pleasurable. Your ass may be on fire, but your brain is in the best place it could be.

And there are people who like to be a dominant in those scenarios.

No true BDSM practitioner wants to HURT hurt you. Not for the sake of hurting, and definitely not if it brings only pain and no pleasure.

If that is true Nezhul then I misunderstand Sadists.
Anyone here who identifies as such want to chime in?

There are sadists, and there are SADISTS. In this crowd, you are bound to meet people once in a while who fulfill their sociopathy through sexual sadism. Who really ARE into torturing or hurting for the sake of making someone suffer.
You'll also find jerks who just don't care. I think it's very easy for those types to find a niche in BDSM community, even if their actions don't follow BDSM spirit or principles.

So there's that.

But most sadists, even those who want to see tears and hear real pleading and screams of pain - they seek partners who represent the other half of them. Partners who are just as crazy interested in being hurt. Those dominants are normal people, and they use things like safe words, frequent discussions and all sorts of precautions to navigate the grounds of their extreme fetishes. THey will never hurt you unless you want it.

That, basically, is the main scale that you should judge kinky partners by, I feel. Even if their fantasies are extreme, as long as they really listen to your desires - they are fine. But those who start to nag you, or push and coerce you into doing something - those types are dangerous.

Angedesoleil said:

If that is true Nezhul then I misunderstand Sadists.
Anyone here who identifies as such want to chime in?

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We do not offer truth here - at best personal viewpoints.

Appropriate Joke

Angedesoleil said:

If that is true Nezhul then I misunderstand Sadists.
Anyone here who identifies as such want to chime in?

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Dear SunAngel (aka Angedesoleil), Two comments (the second is a question) . . .

1st, a joke that for me defines M/S: Do you know what the sadist said to the masochist who asked to be beaten?

"No!"

Two, What is your comment on the situation my wife and I found ourselves in with a friend invited a second time as the third in a trio? He had been surprised one evening dinner we invited him to dinner (not the first time) by being left alone with my wife (I, called away for little more than an hour on business) and seduced by her. He spent the night on the couch, to be invited into our bed the next morning. On the second time we invited him, we didn't get through dinner, interrupted by all three of us so hot in anticipation. But, our friend did something unexpected. He took over.

He had lost any awkward feeling and pretty much literally dove into enjoying my wife as he later admitted her had wanted to for the more than a year he had known us. He was so aggressive that after we got in bed I unexpectedly just watched. He lasted the night through, spectacularly, gruntingly, yellingly cumming over and over. At breakfast, he and my wife, conferring with each other because I asked--since I'd slept twice--confirmed that it was 5 times. Awakened both times by his hand on my shoulder or leg, shaking me awake. Both times he commanded, "Watch!" The first time she was face down and he was kneeling, riding her butt, holding her cheeks open for me to see him go in. The look on his face was kind of demonic triumph. I felt incredibly turned on and vaguely put down. The second time she was on her back, legs over his shoulders and he demanded she look at me while he pounded her for a long time, then violently came in her, rearing up over her so that her lower back and butt came up off the bed.

I'm still trying to guess what the hell was going on with him. That was less than two weeks ago. I have my doubts about suggesting to my wife inviting him back. I don't know ... At breakfast he was polite and even thanked me(!) after my wife kissed him goodbye.

Thank you Nezhul, Primalex, and Milk fountain.

OK, yes, Nezhul that is more in line with what I knew. I guess the comment that I was originally questioning was "no true BDSM practitioner wants to hurt you hurt you for the sake of hurting you." One of the first people I ever knew was a really amazing person, very extremely reserved gentleman in every sense of the word but when he was in a private context he was absolutely A Sadist of extreme measure. I talked to him once to understand his view...he did not want to becwith a massochist who did derive pleasure, because that defeated the point for him. Everything he did was consensual. Safe and sane are fairly subjective terms. I never spoke to the women he played with nor was I really interested in their psychology. Milkfountain's joke was very much in the vein of correct for him.

Yes, I agree, the other symbiotic S/m dynamic is much more prevalent... But I often wonder if that is because of the understandable lack of many pyl who are not massochistic who would bottom for a Sadist of that nature. So I wonder if it is more beggars can't be choosers if they abide by SSC.

Primalex: point be good point be true. Since I don't identify as being on that scale, I always err on the side of * ask don't assume* it wouldn't have surprised me in the least to learn I'd completely misunderstood a major concept. *smile*

Milkfountain I'm going to pass on commenting on the story...I really don't see the correlation. Good luck with that though.

I don't think that there are more hardcore sadists than there are hardcore masochists.
it's just... there're not many of either. So for each of those groups finding the right partner becomes even harder. There are a lot of Masochists and Sadists both who are not getting fulfilled enough or have to compromise or even throw their fetishes out of the window entirely. Unfortunately, the world doesn't work to allow finding a perfect match. Each of us is exposed to a miniscule percentage of people during our life, and we just have to find the best match in that group. Maybe, somewhere on the other end of the world there's a person who is our perfect match in any respect, but you won't meet each other, and will both have to settle for less.

Sadism/Masochism just brings another layer of complexity into the equasion. If a perfectly vanilla person can be happy and fulfilled with 50% of people around them, then for hardcore sadist it's like 5%, the target group is much smaller, and finding partner harder.
This becomes even more hard because in our current society you can't openly relay your sexual interests and fetishes. Said sadist may talk to a hardcore masochist daily, but because they are both hiding their interests - they don't even know how much common ground they have.

"Beggars can't be choosers" - not because there isn't enough for them to choose from. But because their ability to choose is hindered in many ways.

MilkFountain said:

Two, What is your comment on the situation my wife and I found ourselves in with a friend invited a second time as the third in a trio?

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Like - go post your wank fodder somewhere else? It's not like we can't see your posting history, idiot.

Angedesoleil said:

he was absolutely A Sadist of extreme measure.[..]
Everything he did was consensual.

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I think we don't share the same definition of extreme.

Don't mind Primalex too much - he just likes to antagonize everyone and generally is a toxic troll who rarely gives any valid input. Apparently he thinks he's too much above the concept.

Nezhul- I don't mind him, actually.... but then again I'm not such a porcelain doll that I need everyone to agree with me
I do appreciate it though, I know some pyl go running for the hills the first time someone hurts their feelings. Poor souls.

Primalex: I'll explain person elsewhere then you can decide...I don't want to hijack this thread anymore than it has been. ( and any aforementioned poor soul who wanders in at the title might just change her/his mind) lol.

Angedesoleil said:

Nezhul- I don't mind him, actually.... but then again I'm not such a porcelain doll that I need everyone to agree with me
I do appreciate it though, I know some pyl gobrunning for the hills the first time someone hurts their feelings. Poor souls.

Primalex: I'll explain person elsewhere then you can decide...I don't want to hijack this thread anymore than it has been. ( and any aforementioned poor soul who wanders in at the title might just change her/his mind) lol.

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Gobrunning is fraught with peril. Gobrun at the wrong place and time and find one's self gobsmacked.

Que said:

Gobrunning is fraught with peril. Gobrun at the wrong place and time and find one's self gobsmacked.

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ROFL. Thank you for the laugh! Oh the perils of touch typing and not proof reading. Thank you edited.

barefootgirl69 said:

I am more offended by 50 Shades and the public's misconception that this is the way things are done. I laugh at my cousin's going to this movie and ooooing and ahhhhing... but then they come away with the idea that all Doms are like him.

I just watched 9 1/3 Weeks over the Christmas holiday, research for a story I'm writing, and was a little miffed about the way he's portrayed, as well. These two movies were a lot alike in that respect.

Not all Doms are the same, though. Some have more sadistic tendencies than others, if they have any at all.

After experiencing my first M/s in my mid 20s, I discovered I'm not into humiliation or degradation, so I've looked for other things in my relationships... just as I would in any relationship outside of BDSM.

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I think they shorted you one sixth. Aeroplane version?

Que said:

I think they shorted you one sixth. Aeroplane version?

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Nooo, I just put it in there like that to make sure I had your attention.

(damn your proof reading!!!! LOL)