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Male author, female first-person main character.

Carnevil9

Carnevil9

King of Jesters.
Joined
Jul 19, 2006
Posts
9,973
I'm a male author, and I am trying to write a story with a female protagonist, but from the first person perspective. For one reason, I've never done this, so it is a way to stretch, but more importantly, the nature of the story seems to make this the way to go.

However, I'm finding it difficult to get into "the voice." Not being a female, I'm not exactly sure if I am relating things in a believable fashion. Any advice? Anyone had this problem and conquered it? Thanks for any tips!........Carney
 
Read some stories that appear to be first person by female authors. What other advice do you think is possible?
 
Carnevil9 said:
I'm a male author, and I am trying to write a story with a female protagonist, but from the first person perspective. For one reason, I've never done this, so it is a way to stretch, but more importantly, the nature of the story seems to make this the way to go.

However, I'm finding it difficult to get into "the voice." Not being a female, I'm not exactly sure if I am relating things in a believable fashion. Any advice? Anyone had this problem and conquered it? Thanks for any tips!........Carney
Click to expand...

I don't know about "conquered", but I did try it and... Well, it mostly went all right. At least, those attempts mostly scored well. (And I got a few PMs that made me rock back in my chair and scratch my hairy belly and laugh.)

I guess the most important thing is to figure out if you want your feminine voice to be an over the top male fantasy that will have women rolling their eyes or if you want to try to seem real.

I think I remember reading somewhere about an algorithm that could predict whether the writer was male or female. Have you tried goggling "differences between masculine and feminine writing" or some variation?
 
Carnevil9 said:
I'm a male author, and I am trying to write a story with a female protagonist, but from the first person perspective. For one reason, I've never done this, so it is a way to stretch, but more importantly, the nature of the story seems to make this the way to go.

However, I'm finding it difficult to get into "the voice." Not being a female, I'm not exactly sure if I am relating things in a believable fashion. Any advice? Anyone had this problem and conquered it? Thanks for any tips!........Carney
Click to expand...

Good work trying something new!

The thing that most often triggers my "this was written by a guy" reflex is male gaze-y writing.

"I looked into the mirror and fondled my perky D-size breasts" sort of stuff doesn't read like a woman describing her own world; it reads like a woman exhibiting herself for the gratification of a guy. If you want to write convincing female voice, avoid that stuff like the plague.

Beyond that:

- read stuff written by women (including non-fiction)
- flesh out your character's background; you don't have to tell the reader everything about her life, but the more you know, the stronger your writing will be
- borrowing from the Bechdel-Wallace test, don't approach everything in terms of how she relates to a man. Does she have female friends, interests of her own, ...?
- don't overdo it; men and women have a lot in common, and not everything needs to be written in a Distinctively Female Tone.
 
And when in doubt, you can try find a female editor to check in on your text. I'm sure you'll find someone.
 
PuckIt said:
I think I remember reading somewhere about an algorithm that could predict whether the writer was male or female. Have you tried goggling "differences between masculine and feminine writing" or some variation?
Click to expand...

There are a few of these around. Most of them are based on word choices; male writers tend to use some words more often than female writers, etc. Some reading here if you want detail: http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.110.7684&rep=rep1&type=pdf

That said, these methods aren't terribly strong. It's a bit like trying to guess the writer's gender from their height; you might be able to say that people taller than 5'8" are likely male and shorter than 5'8" are likely female, but there are plenty of exceptions. The authors of that paper report a 20% error rate, which is pretty high.
 
That's why I created my alt jeanne_d_artois - to write from a female perspective.

Some people thought 'she' was female and were annoyed when I outed Jeanne on an April 1st.
 
sr71plt said:
Read some stories that appear to be first person by female authors. What other advice do you think is possible?
Click to expand...

This. If it doesn't come naturally to you (and there's evidence on Lit that some guys do not have a clue) then you have to learn by imitation. Read female authors writing female characters.

Having said that, this is what's worked for me in general, at least writing females in their 20's in erotic lit, where stereotypes are touchstones:

Go slow. Female characters don't rush into things. They linger, savor, consider and put off and consider again. Especially when it comes to sex, men look at wristwatches and women look at calendars. But it's not just sex.

Look around. They tend to gather things in from all around them and integrate it all into an experience. Men tend to focus on one thing.

Don't declaim. Female characters use suggestions, hints, and qualifiers. Unless they're a CEO and had to learn otherwise, it's all soft sell. The exception: when a topic is serious, declamations will happen. (Such characters will often appear stressed.)

Check with friends. If a female character is uncertain, they rarely say "fuck it" and pick an alternative on their own, just to get on with their lives. They'll check with other people, especially other females. Young females especially will make a collective decision on if a guy gets a girl.

If it's not related to a relationship in some way, it's just about never at the top of the priority list. It doesn't have to be a romantic relationship - family, friends, etc all count. Getting a laptop matters if it keeps her in touch with people, not because it has more RAM and an extra USB 3.0 port.

Every action is a statement. Things a female character does almost always have interpretations, even if men don't get it. She put on those shoes because she's signalling she doesn't want sex right now, not because she needs to protect her feet against pebbles. Even fuzzy slippers in a bedroom that no one else sees signals "I do not want company and this is my alone time." Everything is a communication. By the same token, everything she does is FOR someone, even if it's just her. Nothing is ever just an activity.

Everyone's clothing matters, and she judges based on them. Girls are instantly slutty if they show more than she does. Things like what shoes a guy wears can be important.

Tears can be put on hold, but not forever.

She's not always in touch with her emotions, and is capable of holding conflicting options, feelings and hopes in a way most men will never understand.

Goodbyes take not less than fifteen minutes. If it takes 15 seconds it means she's furious. (This one is VERY real world: Doorways, as far as I can tell, were invented for females to stand and talk in.)

"What will others think" can be the most important thing in the world, even when the character believes it isn't. Conversely, deciding that what others think about something doesn't matter feels incredibly heroic, and not, say, business as usual.

Among young females, but not older ones, friendships can form and break very quickly, over the course of a few sentences. (By the time a character is street legal here, that should be beginning to fade.)

For some female characters, logic is fine unless you try to apply it to anyone's behaviour, especially the character's. Emotions just about always get the tie-breaking vote in any decision, and sometimes they get the only vote. (Notice it's always the EVIL females that are cold and calculating?)

This one will get me in trouble, if the others already didn't: the only thing worse than being understood is being misunderstood, unless maybe it's being understood. Female characters want their secrets to be their secrets and what they broadcast out to be duh, obvious; and the younger ones especially can get angry and upset when the guy doesn't understand the "obvious" stuff. (Older ones just accept that men are blind and stupid.) And they can get very uneasy when a guy they don't know well seems to understand them right down to their marrow.

There you have it, rules for generic female characters. Anyone bothering to comment on this will likely point out that they're a female and they are nothing like that, etc. Sure. But in writing, these things look authentic, and the stereotypes they come from are based on what a lot of people perceive as true. Note: characters who break these rules make for interesting variations.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Another option is to tell the story from the female's perspective but in the third person, limited omniscient. That way you can narrate what the character is thinking and feeling, but you don't have to worry as much whether your narrative voice sounds authentically female.
 
HandsInTheDark said:
This. If it doesn't come naturally to you (and there's evidence on Lit that some guys do not have a clue) then you have to learn by imitation. Read female authors writing female characters.

Having said that, this is what's worked for me in general, at least writing females in their 20's in erotic lit, where stereotypes are touchstones:

Go slow. Female characters don't rush into things. They linger, savor, consider and put off and consider again. Especially when it comes to sex, men look at wristwatches and women look at calendars. But it's not just sex.

Look around. They tend to gather things in from all around them and integrate it all into an experience. Men tend to focus on one thing.

Don't declaim. Female characters use suggestions, hints, and qualifiers. Unless they're a CEO and had to learn otherwise, it's all soft sell. The exception: when a topic is serious, declamations will happen. (Such characters will often appear stressed.)

Check with friends. If a female character is uncertain, they rarely say "fuck it" and pick an alternative on their own, just to get on with their lives. They'll check with other people, especially other females. Young females especially will make a collective decision on if a guy gets a girl.

If it's not related to a relationship in some way, it's just about never at the top of the priority list. It doesn't have to be a romantic relationship - family, friends, etc all count. Getting a laptop matters if it keeps her in touch with people, not because it has more RAM and an extra USB 3.0 port.

Every action is a statement. Things a female character does almost always have interpretations, even if men don't get it. She put on those shoes because she's signalling she doesn't want sex right now, not because she needs to protect her feet against pebbles. Even fuzzy slippers in a bedroom that no one else sees signals "I do not want company and this is my alone time." Everything is a communication. By the same token, everything she does is FOR someone, even if it's just her. Nothing is ever just an activity.

Everyone's clothing matters, and she judges based on them. Girls are instantly slutty if they show more than she does. Things like what shoes a guy wears can be important.

Tears can be put on hold, but not forever.

She's not always in touch with her emotions, and is capable of holding conflicting options, feelings and hopes in a way most men will never understand.

Goodbyes take not less than fifteen minutes. If it takes 15 seconds it means she's furious. (This one is VERY real world: Doorways, as far as I can tell, were invented for females to stand and talk in.)

"What will others think" can be the most important thing in the world, even when the character believes it isn't. Conversely, deciding that what others think about something doesn't matter feels incredibly heroic, and not, say, business as usual.

Among young females, but not older ones, friendships can form and break very quickly, over the course of a few sentences. (By the time a character is street legal here, that should be beginning to fade.)

For some female characters, logic is fine unless you try to apply it to anyone's behaviour, especially the character's. Emotions just about always get the tie-breaking vote in any decision, and sometimes they get the only vote. (Notice it's always the EVIL females that are cold and calculating?)

This one will get me in trouble, if the others already didn't: the only thing worse than being understood is being misunderstood, unless maybe it's being understood. Female characters want their secrets to be their secrets and what they broadcast out to be duh, obvious; and the younger ones especially can get angry and upset when the guy doesn't understand the "obvious" stuff. (Older ones just accept that men are blind and stupid.) And they can get very uneasy when a guy they don't know well seems to understand them right down to their marrow.

There you have it, rules for generic female characters. Anyone bothering to comment on this will likely point out that they're a female and they are nothing like that, etc. Sure. But in writing, these things look authentic, and the stereotypes they come from are based on what a lot of people perceive as true. Note: characters who break these rules make for interesting variations.
Click to expand...

Dude! The money I could have saved on books and classes (college courses and one day seminars) over the years...
 
I've never tried 1st person writing from a female perspective, but most of my stories are third person limited to the perspective of a female main character. There is of course no one way to write female characters. But one thing I've found very useful is to rely on a female editor/beta-reader. That way I can assure myself that at least one woman find the character believable. It's served me well.
 
I've tried in "Shilana's Trial" and seem to have been successful. Feel free to disagree :)
 
I have now written in first person female twice for submissions to this community, though it was a far more critical factor for the one that was an entry in the lesbian category (with a strong female character helping another young woman come to terms with her sexual identity). Admittedly, I was nervous about how it would be received, but in the end it drew positive feedback.

What helped me was: Having clear inspirations/references in real life to base the characters on, in order to offer some authenticity and informed perspective. If you write something that a woman in your life would never say or do, it's obviously not well conceived. I also read a lot of story submissions in the realm of what I was writing, to clarify my understanding about the expectations readers would have about particular situations that I was less sure about. Most importantly: come at it with maturity and respect for the type of person you are trying to write. That means not crafting a persona that exists to simply satisfy your desires as a male wishing to read about a certain type of female that in no way reflects the actual day-to-day experiences of real women. Finally, understand that an authentic female voice is only part of the task of writing the character successfully. In fact, many of the things impacting a female character are universal elements of the human condition that you probably experience in life yourself. You can leverage that as well, and it will help make the character seem more believable and relatable. -- If you're still unsure when all is said and done, approach a female editor, as others have said! Good luck!
 
rescatooor said:
And when in doubt, you can try find a female editor to check in on your text. I'm sure you'll find someone.
Click to expand...

Or at least a female beta reader, who can tell you which parts ring true and which ones don't.
 
Carnevil9 said:
I'm a male author, and I am trying to write a story with a female protagonist, but from the first person perspective. For one reason, I've never done this, so it is a way to stretch, but more importantly, the nature of the story seems to make this the way to go.

However, I'm finding it difficult to get into "the voice." Not being a female, I'm not exactly sure if I am relating things in a believable fashion. Any advice? Anyone had this problem and conquered it? Thanks for any tips!........Carney
Click to expand...
I'm working on a story with a female first person perspective. One thing I'm doing differently than when I write male POV is that I'm having her notice clothes, make up and hair styles when she's describing people. OTOH, she doesn't notice the chest size of the other main female character. When she talks with other female characters, it's mainly about relationships.

I'm about to do another round of editing. Now, I've got her personality figured out and I'm going to write more from that perspective. Then, it won't be so much gender-specific as personality-specific.

It's kind of odd, but I'm on a roll where all of my story ideas are from the female POV.
 
I love to write from the female perspective and many women have said I do it well. Here's my trick: write your female characters like they're people.
 
Thanks for all the cogent advice, everyone, and especially HandsInTheDark's insightful tome. I knew there had to be more to it that just "read other writers' stories." If it were that easy, walking around St. Peter's Basilica would have made me Michelangelo!
 
Well, I found it that easy. I have multiple female-pov accounts here and I've never had the gender of one questioned. It isn't that complicated. Everyone's looking for the magic bullets that aren't there.
 
You might want to get out of the character's head and write it from 3rd person in her perspective. It's a lot easier to cross the gender lines if you don't have to see through the character's eyes.

With that, you can for the most part write a male character and change pronouns as long as you write a fully fleshed out character than isn't the stereotypical sex obsessed pervert. From the outside, men and women aren't all that different. But when you slip into first person things can get really gender specific.

I'd suggest doing some research on common female experiences. Things that men do that annoy women. What do women look for in men. These sorts of things vary widely between genders/sexes.

So many of the characters used on this site are two dimensional and stereotypes. They have no depth of character. It's really easy to spot a male writing a female character because they turn into male fantasy women rather than grounded in "reality" female behavior.

The hardest part is understanding the places where social ideas shape the different groups. For example, women are shamed for being sexually adventurous and men are applauded for nailing everything in sight. Clothing standards. Understanding the challenge of finding clothes that fit right can go a long way. It might be just one sentence, but it screams that you have some insight and may be you a pass on something you did screw up because it shows that you did some research.

Research is everything for being convincing.

You have to understand that a woman isn't going to notice the same things when she's looking around. She's going to have a different approach to defining what is sexy to her. She may be more attractive to a man that can make her feel safe and that he can make her laugh where a guy is thinking, nice rack. You have to get that right. That right there is one of the big tells.

Women are driven by emotions. That is a huge part of everything they say, think and do. If there is no emotion in the writing, it was not written by a woman. You have to understand what emotional intelligence is and how it applies to women and how it impacts how they interact with the world.

Mastering the ability to write a convincing female character from inside their point of view is a hell of a trick that even big name male authors fall on their face when they try it. But, there are women that can't write from male perspective to save their lives either. I can't tell you how many times I've read a romance story and said to myself, that male character is a woman with a penis. You have to be careful that you don't also write a man with tits. Which is what happens more often than not.

Hope that helps a bit.
 
SeanBurns1975 said:
I love to write from the female perspective and many women have said I do it well. Here's my trick: write your female characters like they're people.
Click to expand...

No shit, Sherlock.

Shouldn't you write ALL characters like they're real people (I assume this is what you meant).
 
I have only written about transvestite characters that see the world through their feminine perspective. Honestly, my character Ashleigh from "A Slut's Triangle" can almost be viewed as a "female character". I restrained myself from allowing the character from doing and saying things typical guys would say in casual conversation. I gave Ashleigh a more "emotional" personality in many instances. Logical thinking went out the window, replaced with judgement based on feelings, etc. Of course, the character had to look and act feminine, primping and playing on the phone were good starting points. But, in the end, Ashleigh is a Transvestite. When the clothes come off, there's still a guy under them, fighting to hold onto as much of his feminine side. 🌹Sorry, I babbled👠👠👠Kant
 
HandsInTheDark said:
. . .There you have it, rules for generic female characters. . . .
Click to expand...

Wow, that's was ballsy as hell!

Here's what I love about that list - while it's filled with cliches about the nature of most women, those are all expected cliches. Take, for example, Hands' suggestion that clothing matters (about midway down his list). No way is that true for all women, but if you write it, most people will spot that sort of behavior as "girl-thinking."

Great job, Hands.

As for Carn, all the standard advice applies whether you're writing from a female POV or a dog's, read it out loud, pay attention to inner voice, strike or rewrite the lines that don't ring true to your ears. Beta readers help. Self-doubt seldom does.
 
Bentmind42 said:
It's really easy to spot a male writing a female character because they turn into male fantasy women rather than grounded in "reality" female behavior....
Mastering the ability to write a convincing female character from inside their point of view is a hell of a trick that even big name male authors fall on their face when they try it. But, there are women that can't write from male perspective to save their lives either.
Click to expand...

It's not quite as bad as all that. I've had female readers assume I was female a couple times. Pilot and a few others have reported the same. Now, when I try to write a female in her 40's or 50's - which I don't do much of any here - I reread it and think "solid stereotype". I don't get the "shading" right. Females don't get less complicated with time. But in sticking to the 20's, where everyone is still forming identities anyway, I can make it pass muster. The trick is to watch how people behave and describe that, instead of writing how you want them to behave.

Here's Barbara, a 30 something who's based on a midwestern US woman I knew, giving dating advice to a dominant but sometimes clueless male:

She sighed at me. “Get around to your real question, if you’re going to. What gets to women isn’t a question, it’s a title of a damn essay and I have eggs to collect.”

“What will get to Miss Ames.”

“Looking at her, for a start… oh Heinrich. At your age you shouldn’t need to be told. An unexpected gift at an unexpected time. Followed by slightly clumsy, awkward flirtation. Send her a dozen roses and then call her and talk to her about anything, never mentioning the roses until she does, and then act embarrassed. I know not one bit of that comes naturally to you, but that’s what will melt her heart. Nothing a woman likes to see more than a guy leaving his comfort zone to impress her.”

“Guys get by on pride and knowing what they are doing. Doesn’t figure women would like seeing a guy get tongue-tied.”

“Maybe not tongue tied. But it’s all about making the women feel like she’s an exception. We go through life knowing men rate us on tits, waistline, ass, and maybe eyes if we’re lucky. We’re all princesses on the inside, but you all treat us like hogs at a country fair. Let us believe that you’ve got everything you need, and even a disregard for women in general, but you’ve seen one that you just can’t help wanting to talk to, even when it’s obvious you’re out of things to say, which don’t take long with you. Look at her like you’ve seen someone worth knowing instead of something for your bed.”
Click to expand...

Male authors may want to consider that same advice when dealing with female characters, even in erotica.
 
Well it's fiction and you create from the point of view of one of the characters. If you're a white male would it be difficult to write from the perspective of a black male? If you're young could you write from the perspective of an older person? If you're straight it might be difficult to write as a gay person. Try imagining the scenes(s) playing out and step back to see it happening first as the man then as the woman. Trial and error

I do try to write some stories from different perspectives and when I write as a woman and receive comments saying how much of bitch I am or how I must hate men, I feel I've done a good job AND that the complainer is too lazy or dumb to look at my profile and other stories.
 
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