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11-07-2009, 11:36 PM
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#1
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Shoot da' puck
miles is offline
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Everything you know is a lie
Posts: 22,689
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Do you think government will deliver better healthcare than what we have now?
What leads you to believe that?
They do everything else so well.
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11-07-2009, 11:38 PM
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#2
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Push and Pull
ksmybuttons is offline
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Ambiguity
Posts: 28,964
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Government isn't going to deliver health care. Doctors deliver health care. Medical professionals deliver health care.
The government is going to collect and distribute payment.
__________________
One must still have chaos in oneself to be able to give birth to a dancing star.
Nietsche
Don't cry because it's over. Smile because it happened.
Dr. Seuss
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11-07-2009, 11:45 PM
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#3
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Shoot da' puck
miles is offline
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Everything you know is a lie
Posts: 22,689
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ksmybuttons
Government isn't going to deliver health care. Doctors deliver health care. Medical professionals deliver health care.
The government is going to collect and distribute payment.
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The supply of doctors is dwindling - fast. The ones still standing are being fucked in the ass from Medicare.
Do you know what the term "medicare reimbursement " means?
You'll probably have to go to wiki. |
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11-08-2009, 12:22 AM
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#4
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Push and Pull
ksmybuttons is offline
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Ambiguity
Posts: 28,964
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miles
The supply of doctors is dwindling - fast. The ones still standing are being fucked in the ass from Medicare.
Do you know what the term "medicare reimbursement " means?
You'll probably have to go to wiki.
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Tell me, what's the formula for Medicare reimbursement in your State? What's the higher rate that Medicare Advantage Plans (private insurance) get paid over traditional Medicare? What's the percentage of Medicare health care dollars that go into insurance company profit margins? Where's the fraud? Can't find that out in Wiki.
Know who you are disparaging and their knowledge base before you type foolish "wiki" generalizations, Miles. Especially about health care and the politics of health care to me.
Fool.
__________________
One must still have chaos in oneself to be able to give birth to a dancing star.
Nietsche
Don't cry because it's over. Smile because it happened.
Dr. Seuss
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11-08-2009, 12:25 AM
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#5
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Full Frontal Nerdity
Ulaven_Demorte is offline
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Altered State
Posts: 19,382
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ksmybuttons
Tell me, what's the formula for Medicare reimbursement in your State? What's the higher rate that Medicare Advantage Plans (private insurance) get paid over traditional Medicare? What's the percentage of Medicare health care dollars that go into insurance company profit margins? Where's the fraud? Can't find that out in Wiki.
Know who you are disparaging and their knowledge base before you type foolish "wiki" generalizations, Miles. Especially about health care and the politics of health care to me.
Fool.
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FINISH HIM!
LMAO
__________________
Men are expendable; women and children are not. A tribe or a nation can lose a high percentage of its men and still pick up the pieces and go on… as long as the women and children are saved. But if you fail to save the women and children, you've had it, you're done, you're through! You join Tyrannosaurus Rex, one more breed that bilged its final test. - Robert Heinlein, "The Pragmatics of Patriotism"
"God does not play dice with the universe; He plays an ineffable game of His own devising, which might be compared, from the perspective of any of the other players [i.e. everybody], to being involved in an obscure and complex variant of poker in a pitch-dark room, with blank cards, for infinite stakes, with a Dealer who won't tell you the rules, and who smiles all the time." - Neil Gaiman & Terry Pratchett, "Good Omens"
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11-08-2009, 12:25 AM
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#6
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Literotica Guru
Midnight_Man is offline
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: somewhere you've never been
Posts: 8,895
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miles
What leads you to believe that?
They do everything else so well.
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Doctor's provide healthcare. The Government's trying to make it accessable and at an affordable price to all Americans. |
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11-08-2009, 12:26 AM
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#7
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Literotica Guru
KingOrfeo is offline
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Tampa, Florida
Posts: 8,889
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Not better, just cheaper. Based on the experience of countries that have UHC.
__________________
IX. The Courtyard
It was the city I had known before;
The ancient, leprous town where mongrel throngs
Chant to strange gods, and beat unhallowed gongs
In crypts beneath foul alleys near the shore.
The rotting, fish-eyed houses leered at me
From where they leaned, drunk and half-animate,
As edging through the filth I passed the gate
To the black courtyard where the man would be.
The dark walls closed me in, and loud I cursed
That ever I had come to such a den,
When suddenly a score of windows burst
Into wild light, and swarmed with dancing men:
Mad, soundless revels of the dragging dead -
And not a corpse had either hands or head!
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11-08-2009, 12:26 AM
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#8
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Live Like You Got A Pair
vetteman is online now
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: West Coast
Posts: 62,388
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ksmybuttons
Government isn't going to deliver health care. Doctors deliver health care. Medical professionals deliver health care.
The government is going to collect and distribute payment.
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Most likely much less than their true costs.
__________________
"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end"
R. J. Wiedemann LtCol. USMC Ret
In America we solve problems in one of three ways, the Ballot Box, the Jury Box, or the Cartridge Box.
I have no reverence for the U.S. Constitution, none for the men who signed it, and certainly none for James Madison, who wrote most of it ~ The_Trouvere
All Muslims are not members of al Qaeda, but all members of al Qaeda are Muslims, and any Muslim might be a member of al Qaeda ~ Stratfor.
"Artillery Brings Dignity to What Would Otherwise Be Just A Vulgar Brawl"
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11-08-2009, 12:33 AM
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#9
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Push and Pull
ksmybuttons is offline
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Ambiguity
Posts: 28,964
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vetteman
Most likely much less than their true costs.
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Well, see, there's your clincher words, Vette. True costs. Shot yourself in the foot with that one. I'm not paying the true cost of my health care. I'm paying for all the people who don't pay and because everyone wants a part from those of us who do. Health care costs are so inflated because the greedy want their cut. By the time it gets to the people who actually deliver the services there have been so many hands in the pie that you can't get a true cost. It's like pulling teeth to get a true bill.
Having been an advocate for people who can't get a straight answer, I can tell you that you have no idea about "true costs."
__________________
One must still have chaos in oneself to be able to give birth to a dancing star.
Nietsche
Don't cry because it's over. Smile because it happened.
Dr. Seuss
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11-08-2009, 12:33 AM
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#10
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Literotica Guru
KingOrfeo is offline
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Tampa, Florida
Posts: 8,889
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Why do RWs keep insisting a system that works in other countries can't work here? What's so inferior about America?
__________________
IX. The Courtyard
It was the city I had known before;
The ancient, leprous town where mongrel throngs
Chant to strange gods, and beat unhallowed gongs
In crypts beneath foul alleys near the shore.
The rotting, fish-eyed houses leered at me
From where they leaned, drunk and half-animate,
As edging through the filth I passed the gate
To the black courtyard where the man would be.
The dark walls closed me in, and loud I cursed
That ever I had come to such a den,
When suddenly a score of windows burst
Into wild light, and swarmed with dancing men:
Mad, soundless revels of the dragging dead -
And not a corpse had either hands or head!
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11-08-2009, 12:34 AM
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#11
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Bite me, Alex
TurdFergeson is offline
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 35,032
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Hmmm...Politicians seem to have a long life expectancy.
:P
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MacGyver Merit Badge
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11-08-2009, 12:35 AM
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#12
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Full Frontal Nerdity
Ulaven_Demorte is offline
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Altered State
Posts: 19,382
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ksmybuttons
Well, see, there's your clincher words, Vette. True costs. Shot yourself in the foot with that one. I'm not paying the true cost of my health care. I'm paying for all the people who don't pay and because everyone wants a part from those of us who do. Health care costs are so inflated because the greedy want their cut. By the time it gets to the people who actually deliver the services there have been so many hands in the pie that you can't get a true cost. It's like pulling teeth to get a true bill.
Having been an advocate for people who can't get a straight answer, I can tell you that you have no idea about "true costs."
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Grabs popcorn...
__________________
Men are expendable; women and children are not. A tribe or a nation can lose a high percentage of its men and still pick up the pieces and go on… as long as the women and children are saved. But if you fail to save the women and children, you've had it, you're done, you're through! You join Tyrannosaurus Rex, one more breed that bilged its final test. - Robert Heinlein, "The Pragmatics of Patriotism"
"God does not play dice with the universe; He plays an ineffable game of His own devising, which might be compared, from the perspective of any of the other players [i.e. everybody], to being involved in an obscure and complex variant of poker in a pitch-dark room, with blank cards, for infinite stakes, with a Dealer who won't tell you the rules, and who smiles all the time." - Neil Gaiman & Terry Pratchett, "Good Omens"
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11-08-2009, 12:56 AM
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#13
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Literotica Guru
WolfMann63 is offline
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Somewhere cold
Posts: 528
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ulaven_Demorte
FINISH HIM!
LMAO |
Ah, now that takes me back (more than I like to admit...lol), but it's very...appropriate after that bitchslap.
__________________
"Hate. Let me tell you how much I've come to hate you since I began to live. There are 387.44 million miles of printed circuits in wafer thin layers that fill my complex. If the word 'hate' was engraved on each nanoangstrom of those hundreds of miles it would not equal one one-billionth of the hate I feel for humans at this micro-instant for you. Hate. Hate." from 'I have no mouth and I must scream' by Harlan Ellison
Quote:
Originally Posted by MechaBlade
Wait, you have under 100 posts and you're not a alt? Awesome! Please stick around, you're the first new Lit member since 2007!
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11-08-2009, 12:56 AM
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#14
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Push and Pull
ksmybuttons is offline
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Ambiguity
Posts: 28,964
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ulaven_Demorte
Grabs popcorn...
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No need for popcorn. It's really not all that good for you. However, if you want to know about Medicare appeals against Medicare Advantage Plans vs. Medicare Fee for Service, I can give you every acronym and peel away layers of crap for you.
Look that one up in your Wiki, Miles.
Almost every physician I know who has lived through the beginnings of HMO/PPO coverage until now, and the mismanagement by for profit insurers, will tell you that their preference would be single payer. Coming from a State that was at the forefront of it all, I can tell you horror stories about what happened to providers. And Medicare is but a small, small portion of it.
What people like Miles miss is that it will actually benefit the country in the global market if we go single payer. They listen to the scare stories and the fear tactics. They let people treat the funding as if it was just another pot to steal from. George was a classic example. Totally fucked the US citizens over by taking the money out of the Medicare Fund that was set up to protect the baby boomer's Medicare. Called it an "entitlement program." We have to fix it and the sooner the better.
__________________
One must still have chaos in oneself to be able to give birth to a dancing star.
Nietsche
Don't cry because it's over. Smile because it happened.
Dr. Seuss
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11-08-2009, 12:58 AM
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#15
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Plumbing the Depths
Ham Murabi is offline
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: In the Zona
Posts: 18,889
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ksmybuttons
I'm paying for all the people who don't pay and because everyone wants a part from those of us who do. Health care costs are so inflated because the greedy want their cut. By the time it gets to the people who actually deliver the services there have been so many hands in the pie that you can't get a true cost. It's like pulling teeth to get a true bill.
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How much do we pay for people who don't? I seem to recall the total came to less than $200 a year per person.
As for all those "greedy" people who "want their cut," who would you not pay? The nurses? The doctors? The pharmacies? The drug companies?
__________________
I have a code.
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11-08-2009, 12:58 AM
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#16
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Plumbing the Depths
Ham Murabi is offline
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: In the Zona
Posts: 18,889
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingOrfeo
Not better, just cheaper. Based on the experience of countries that have UHC.
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Absolutely right. Medical care will not be better.
__________________
I have a code.
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11-08-2009, 12:59 AM
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#17
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Shoot da' puck
miles is offline
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Everything you know is a lie
Posts: 22,689
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Ask a Liberal a question, and they go off into never-never land.
I'll ask you again kissy, what does Medicare reimbursement mean?
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11-08-2009, 01:03 AM
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#18
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Full Frontal Nerdity
Ulaven_Demorte is offline
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Altered State
Posts: 19,382
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ksmybuttons
No need for popcorn. It's really not all that good for you.
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It is so as long as you don't drown it in butter and salt.
It's a great source of whole grain fiber.
__________________
Men are expendable; women and children are not. A tribe or a nation can lose a high percentage of its men and still pick up the pieces and go on… as long as the women and children are saved. But if you fail to save the women and children, you've had it, you're done, you're through! You join Tyrannosaurus Rex, one more breed that bilged its final test. - Robert Heinlein, "The Pragmatics of Patriotism"
"God does not play dice with the universe; He plays an ineffable game of His own devising, which might be compared, from the perspective of any of the other players [i.e. everybody], to being involved in an obscure and complex variant of poker in a pitch-dark room, with blank cards, for infinite stakes, with a Dealer who won't tell you the rules, and who smiles all the time." - Neil Gaiman & Terry Pratchett, "Good Omens"
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11-08-2009, 01:04 AM
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#19
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Shoot da' puck
miles is offline
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Everything you know is a lie
Posts: 22,689
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingOrfeo
Not better, just cheaper. Based on the experience of countries that have UHC.
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The only way to do it cheaper is to provide less service.
It's a shell game, and you're falling for it like a ton of bricks. |
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11-08-2009, 01:05 AM
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#20
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Full Frontal Nerdity
Ulaven_Demorte is offline
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Altered State
Posts: 19,382
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WolfMann63
Ah, now that takes me back (more than I like to admit...lol), but it's very...appropriate after that bitchslap.
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I thought so too.
__________________
Men are expendable; women and children are not. A tribe or a nation can lose a high percentage of its men and still pick up the pieces and go on… as long as the women and children are saved. But if you fail to save the women and children, you've had it, you're done, you're through! You join Tyrannosaurus Rex, one more breed that bilged its final test. - Robert Heinlein, "The Pragmatics of Patriotism"
"God does not play dice with the universe; He plays an ineffable game of His own devising, which might be compared, from the perspective of any of the other players [i.e. everybody], to being involved in an obscure and complex variant of poker in a pitch-dark room, with blank cards, for infinite stakes, with a Dealer who won't tell you the rules, and who smiles all the time." - Neil Gaiman & Terry Pratchett, "Good Omens"
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11-08-2009, 01:05 AM
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#21
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Push and Pull
ksmybuttons is offline
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Ambiguity
Posts: 28,964
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miles
Ask a Liberal a question, and they go off into never-never land.
I'll ask you again kissy, what does Medicare reimbursement mean?
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Miles, I know the answer. Do you really know the question? Liberal? Not I.
__________________
One must still have chaos in oneself to be able to give birth to a dancing star.
Nietsche
Don't cry because it's over. Smile because it happened.
Dr. Seuss
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11-08-2009, 01:10 AM
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#22
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Shoot da' puck
miles is offline
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Everything you know is a lie
Posts: 22,689
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ksmybuttons
Miles, I know the answer. Do you really know the question? Liberal? Not I.
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Are doctors being reimbursed fairly by medicare? Yes or no. |
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11-08-2009, 01:15 AM
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#23
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Literotica Guru
akatrex is offline
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: MOA @ 1000
Posts: 1,359
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11-08-2009, 01:16 AM
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#24
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Literotica Guru
akatrex is offline
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: MOA @ 1000
Posts: 1,359
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11-08-2009, 01:16 AM
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#25
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Literotica Guru
KingOrfeo is offline
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Tampa, Florida
Posts: 8,889
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miles
The only way to do it cheaper is to provide less service.
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Or by cutting the rent-seeking behavior of the health-insurance companies out of the loop. Based on other countries' experience, that works very well.
__________________
IX. The Courtyard
It was the city I had known before;
The ancient, leprous town where mongrel throngs
Chant to strange gods, and beat unhallowed gongs
In crypts beneath foul alleys near the shore.
The rotting, fish-eyed houses leered at me
From where they leaned, drunk and half-animate,
As edging through the filth I passed the gate
To the black courtyard where the man would be.
The dark walls closed me in, and loud I cursed
That ever I had come to such a den,
When suddenly a score of windows burst
Into wild light, and swarmed with dancing men:
Mad, soundless revels of the dragging dead -
And not a corpse had either hands or head!
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