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11-07-2009, 11:49 AM
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#1
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Wok is offline
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: More scotch
Posts: 32,315
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Cap and trade question
If somebody buys credits to pollute, is it still pollution? I am sure there is more to this idea than that, but it seems more like a feel-good measure than anything.
Perhaps I missed something.
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11-07-2009, 11:50 AM
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#2
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Wok is offline
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: More scotch
Posts: 32,315
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Never mind. I have the mighty Google...
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11-07-2009, 12:08 PM
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#3
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Conservatism Czar
off2bed is offline
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: The Horse Latitudes
Posts: 8,801
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What does the mighty google say?
That when money goes to the government, the molecules of pollution magically transfigure into manna?
__________________
Democrat mantra: "The Government is my shepherd, I shall not want."
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11-07-2009, 12:13 PM
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#4
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Wok is offline
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: More scotch
Posts: 32,315
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Quote:
Originally Posted by off2bed
What does the mighty google say?
That when money goes to the government, the molecules of pollution magically transfigure into manna?
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Apparently, it says the government limits the amount of pollution, then if somebody pollutes more, that person needs to buy credits from somebody who pollutes less.
I guess it is some kind of incentive program to reduce pollution, but the question still stands: Money does not make the pollution go away. So what good is cap and trade? I will read some more about it. |
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11-07-2009, 12:24 PM
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#5
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Live Like You Got A Pair
vetteman is online now
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: West Coast
Posts: 62,393
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wok
If somebody buys credits to pollute, is it still pollution? I am sure there is more to this idea than that, but it seems more like a feel-good measure than anything.
Perhaps I missed something.
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When I ran a company all I had to do to escape the VOC limitations on emissions was to go before the Air Quality Control Management District (The County Board Of Supervisors with their hats turned around) and apply for a variance which I received for $3500 a year in permit costs.
__________________
"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end"
R. J. Wiedemann LtCol. USMC Ret
In America we solve problems in one of three ways, the Ballot Box, the Jury Box, or the Cartridge Box.
I have no reverence for the U.S. Constitution, none for the men who signed it, and certainly none for James Madison, who wrote most of it ~ The_Trouvere
All Muslims are not members of al Qaeda, but all members of al Qaeda are Muslims, and any Muslim might be a member of al Qaeda ~ Stratfor.
"Artillery Brings Dignity to What Would Otherwise Be Just A Vulgar Brawl"
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11-07-2009, 12:40 PM
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#6
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dynamic
SaintPeter is offline
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Denver
Posts: 38,766
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It is a counter to the greed of capitalism.
If it costs nothing to pollute, then the factory dumps poison in the sewer. If that same poison has a cost associated with it, the factory finds ways to make their stuff while generating less poison.
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11-07-2009, 12:51 PM
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#7
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Literotica Guru
SuprSalor is offline
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Pacific Ocean
Posts: 1,561
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vetteman
When I ran a company all I had to do to escape the VOC limitations on emissions was to go before the Air Quality Control Management District (The County Board Of Supervisors with their hats turned around) and apply for a variance which I received for $3500 a year in permit costs.
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Isn't it great when you get stuff from the government?  |
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11-07-2009, 01:14 PM
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#8
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Catch Me Who Can
trysail is offline
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: 'twixt here and there
Posts: 5,646
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There's just one minor problem: the stuff you exhale ( a/k/a CO2 ) doesn't happen to be a pollutant.
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11-07-2009, 01:15 PM
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#9
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Wok is offline
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: More scotch
Posts: 32,315
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trysail
There's just one minor problem: the stuff you exhale ( a/k/a CO2 ) doesn't happen to be a pollutant.
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No shit?
Thanks for the lesson.  |
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11-07-2009, 01:37 PM
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#10
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dynamic
SaintPeter is offline
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Denver
Posts: 38,766
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trysail
There's just one minor problem: the stuff you exhale ( a/k/a CO2 ) doesn't happen to be a pollutant.
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It is a pebble in the ocean compared to what industry spews into our air.
Or compared to what your shitty font spews onto this board. |
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11-07-2009, 01:49 PM
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#11
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~click here~
koalabear is offline
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: over there----->
Posts: 61,905
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wok
If somebody buys credits to pollute, is it still pollution? I am sure there is more to this idea than that, but it seems more like a feel-good measure than anything.
Perhaps I missed something.
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It's another hog trough for the special interests to feed at.
__________________
GBers are like Bran Muffins, not much substance, yet they produce a lot of shit. "^^"
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11-07-2009, 01:54 PM
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#12
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Live Like You Got A Pair
vetteman is online now
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: West Coast
Posts: 62,393
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintPeter
It is a counter to the greed of capitalism.
If it costs nothing to pollute, then the factory dumps poison in the sewer. If that same poison has a cost associated with it, the factory finds ways to make their stuff while generating less poison.
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They realized it was more dangerous to have pissed off voters in the unemployment lines.
__________________
"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end"
R. J. Wiedemann LtCol. USMC Ret
In America we solve problems in one of three ways, the Ballot Box, the Jury Box, or the Cartridge Box.
I have no reverence for the U.S. Constitution, none for the men who signed it, and certainly none for James Madison, who wrote most of it ~ The_Trouvere
All Muslims are not members of al Qaeda, but all members of al Qaeda are Muslims, and any Muslim might be a member of al Qaeda ~ Stratfor.
"Artillery Brings Dignity to What Would Otherwise Be Just A Vulgar Brawl"
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11-07-2009, 01:58 PM
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#13
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dynamic
SaintPeter is offline
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Denver
Posts: 38,766
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vetteman
They realized it was more dangerous to have pissed off voters in the unemployment lines.
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They realized we cannot keep dumping tons of this shit into our air and the only way to slow it down was associate a cost with it.
Simple, really. |
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11-07-2009, 02:01 PM
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#14
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Karhu-er
thør is online now
Join Date: May 2002
Location: The 49th State
Posts: 21,800
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It's all about the money.........
__________________
It is better to go skiing and think of God, than go to church and think of sport. - Fridtjof Nansen
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11-07-2009, 02:04 PM
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#15
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burning
mypoliticalalt is offline
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 2,306
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It is a means of using taxation to control private consumption and behavior. Sorta like prohibition. That was one of my favorites. Or tobacco taxation, that created the largest underground economy on earth.
Unexpected results are rarely factored in by these geniuses.
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11-07-2009, 02:21 PM
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#16
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Conservatism Czar
off2bed is offline
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: The Horse Latitudes
Posts: 8,801
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Governments cannot control things (pollution, environment, etc.).
Governments can only control people.
__________________
Democrat mantra: "The Government is my shepherd, I shall not want."
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11-07-2009, 02:27 PM
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#17
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Catch Me Who Can
trysail is offline
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: 'twixt here and there
Posts: 5,646
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintPeter
It is a pebble in the ocean compared to what industry spews into our air...
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What "industry spews into our air" is "a pebble in the ocean compared to what "nature spews into our air."
Quote:
Carbon dioxide has been increased to about 0.038% of the atmosphere (possibly from about 0.028% pre-Industrial Revolution) while water in its various forms ranges from 0% to 4% of the atmosphere and its properties vary by what form it is in and even at what altitude it is found in the atmosphere.
Humans can only claim responsibility, if that's the word, for about 3.4% of carbon dioxide emitted to the atmosphere annually, the rest of it is all natural. Natural sources of carbon dioxide are more than 20 times greater than sources due to human activity.
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http://www.grida.no/climate/vital/13.htm
Freidenreich and Ramaswamy, “Solar Radiation Absorption by Carbon Dioxide, Overlap with Water, and a Parameterization for General Circulation Models,” Journal of Geophysical Research 98 (1993):7255-7264).
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