Are you gay? The complexities of the question.

[IDreamUcream]

For what seems the majority of society, it's plain as black and white.
Not for me.

I guess I shouldn't start this thread without first putting my reasons for doing so.
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My sexual history:

My first orgasm was when I was about young, and it was while rubbing myself up against another young boy. We were both naked.
We had been "experimenting" with each other for about a year.

We continued to "experiment" with each other til we were a little older.
My memory isn't brilliant (Im now 39 yrs old) - but I remember we performed oral sex on each other.
I used to love the smell of fresh soap as I pulled his underpants down to reveal the clean cock (no hairs).

I think as you grow up as a boy, you are aware of the ultimate jibe that a boy can give another boy was that he was gay. "You fag", "You little queer!" etc etc - the landscape of "society" gets painted in the playground.

As you can imagine - this etched itself into the psyche of me and my friend.
We decided to stop what we were doing.

I have not had sex with another male since.

I have had fairly happy relationships with females in my lifetime - I had one blissful relatuonship with a gorgeous woman - I sold my house to move in with her. We had mindblowing sex. But alas the relationship broke down. Very dramatically.

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I don't fantasise about sex with another male - EXCEPT if I were to ever meet my long lost friend again - the thought of re-engaging sex with him is orgasmic.

I come from a very working class city in the UK - it has a reputation in this country. A reputation where wit and quickness of mind are renowned, but also where if you are seen to "hide" something you are quickly considered a fraud and a phoney.

I have a fear in social situations. When I am in a group and the word "gay" crops up or someone's sexuality is questioned - I squirm.
I blush, my heart starts to beat fast, I have a mini panic attack.
I know people make a mental note of this.
It starts a snowball of paranoia in me - "he/she thinks I'm gay" I will tell myself.

Once when drunk a friend who I've known for 20 years said privately "You need to sort out your sexuality". It hurt me at the time - but he must have seen me squirm when sexuality conversations cropped up. (He is one of those who believes friends should "challenge").

[I just want to add that I have had serious mental health issues, and was diagnosed as having "schizo affective disorder", I think in the US they call it "Unipolar Disorder" which I think my childhood experience has been a major cause.]

I guess some reading this would say I needed therapy (I believe I do) - I did try therapy on the famous (but free) NHS medical system in he UK.

The therapist's first question was, "How was your childhood" to which my reply was as honest as they come "Well from an early age I had sex with another boy, it lasted for years".

The therapist told me that she couldn't give me an answer to whether I was gay, but her final question at the last session, was to ask me if I was gay: my answer was:

"Well, for me it will never be as black or white as it is for other people. I would say no, but I cant say no with the conviction that others can".

She ended the sessions then. I do think that if my answer was Yes, she would have said "Great, you can get on with your life now", but her reply was a bit more laden with anti-climax undertones.
I guess therapists, like all professions, have their limitations.
I think with psychiatrists/therapists etc - if you tell them a, b, c their answer is d, e, f. If you tell them a, b, c, d, e, f, there answer g, h, i.
It's when you tell them a,b,c,....x ,y , z - they get a bit stuck.

I will end my post there - there's more on the subject I have to say but I will leave it there.
If you have had the patience to read all of this, I thank you.

Off to work soon so can't reply in the next 12 hours, but will look to reply to people as soon as is possible.

[IDreamUcream]

I think my OP was a bit too long, too much to read. And I guess the title should have been different.

Shame really because in the "Men who crave cock but don't like men" thread
there was good serious debate about it.

[Gavionn]

I was part of the debate you mentioned, if memory serves.

I also had pre-adolescent fun with a friend.

As well as post-adolescent fun with other friends.

And I have spent a lot of time in therapy - but never with sexual issues.

I like what I like, and I know what I know.

I've been married for 14 years and have never strayed. Much like I dream to one day own a real Shelby Cobra - I also wish to have a massive, throbbing cock in my mouth.

If neither ever come true, I will still enjoy my life.

I am married to the sexiest woman I've ever known or seen.

But I want blowjobs. And blowjobs look like fun to me.

Most of my sex life is fantasy. Why not use that fantasy to get off another guy in a similar situation?

You seem to be mightily conflicted over this issue.

I wish I could be of help to you - but I've never understood sexual conflict.

You like what you like.

Sex and Romance are completely seperate.

Society is bullshit.

You only live once.

[Dave4545]

I've never kised a guy, sucked a cock (unfortunately) or done anal, but I have the a same homophobic reaction to those words and the topic in public. I had very anti gay programming as a kid, from my father and from all my friends and the working class town I grew up in. I would have loved to have those adolecent and teen experiences. If I had, I wonder if I would still have these desires today. I love females and am generally oriented in that direction, but also have a craving for cock.

Having explored my sexuality through the internet for the past several years, I've learned that the category of male/male sex is wide open. On one end are guys totally gay, willing to explore any aspect of sexuality with a man exclusive of females to the opposit end where I find myself, just interested in cock....no anal, kissing, cuddling or romance.

Does anyone have any insight into the homophobic blush/panic attack reaction that me and our friend from England have?

[Neon_Ultra]

All I can offer is:

Just forget the labels. And the stereotypes. And the critics. Forget everything. Do whatever you want if it makes you feel good (unless it is nonconsensual on the part of others and then you may want to reconsider, as you may want to do with other pretty bad stuff).
Otherwise, just do stuff if you want to and choose yourself to be open about it to others or not. If you are and they frown on it, surround yourselves with people who support what you do, or at least don't put you down for it.

Just don't let people - or yourself - make you feel guilty about it. It's your body, your mind. You rule this universe. Finish every act, no matter the debauchery, will a grin on your face, as a testament to your own individuation.
And remember that there are always countless people in the same situation as you, just as there are countless far more fucked up people.

Well that's my advice, but I'm not sure if anyone else would fully agree.

[sunandshadow]

People in general have the urge to put things in simple binary categories, and things that don't fit tend to get smashed or cut off. I don't think that's a healthy way for one's mind to treat one's own sexuality. But I'm not anti-labels or categorization, I think it's comforting and useful to be able to make some sort of generalization explaining what one likes and doesn't like. "Am I gay, straight, or bi?" might simply be the wrong question if it looks at things from the wrong perspective for you. Instead of what am I, perhaps try asking "What do I generally want?"

Like me, I'm a woman, I generally only have sex with men, yet it would be misleading to say I'm straight because of all the assumptions that go along with that - the truth is that I only like bishounens, men who are androgynously pretty, and that some other types of men are more undesirable to me that women. Some women I could have casual sex with, it wouldn't repulse me, just be equally boring as being with a guy I'm not particularly attracted to. I spend most of my fantisizing time imagining that I am a muscular man having sex with a slender pretty one, but I'm not a transsexual, nor really riveted on the idea of my female self having a pair of bi lovers. The other half of my time I spend fantasizing about getting pregnany, which I do want to do for real. Once I understand what I generally want, then I feel confident enough to say "I am a bishounen-lover" and decide that the other details aren't really pertinent enough to mention, although it's important that I understand and remember them about myself.


A separate issue is that you do seem to have a phobia of the term gay. That's the kind of thing I do think would be appropriate to try to get over with a therapist's help. But it also makes sense that you can't get at the phobia to work on it if the question of your own sexuality is blocking by being more important and anxiety inducing. My other question is, when you mention meeting your long-lost friend again and having sex with him, what do you imagine him looking like? What age? Because (and I'm almost phobic of mentioning this myself because of the really negative ways I've seen the word pedophile used in society recently) it's possible you might consider only pre-adolescent males attractive (besides women).

@Dave -
The blush/panic reaction is a really typical reaction of people who don't usually lie, then attempt to do so, or don't usually keep secrets, when they are trying to keep one. It also applies to being asked to agree firmly with some generalization if you feel that, despite the generalization being basically right, it's not completely right and it would be wrong to agree with it before sorting it out. Basically it's a reaction to feeling pressured in two different directions (whether either source of pressure is external or internal), particularly combined with an urge to be honest.

[Samuelx]

Someone needs their head examined.
This is sick.
Seriously.
Get Help.
Now.

[Dave4545]

Well....that certainly was contructive and supportive.

[Bystander]

maybe you're bi?
if you can get it up for a girl AND you can get it up for a guy do the math.

I may sound abrasive but I do understand where you're coming from. Like you my only sexual experiences with another man were during my childhood and he's the one I fantasize about when I'm thinking of sex with a guy. My fascination with Cock aside I'm not really interested in men unless I see someone who looks similar to that particular person and then I feel the lust, typically stronger than when I see a really hot girl. So for a long time I used to wonder if I was gay or straight. One day I decided I just didn't care. My gay side is pickier, my straight side is not so much, the end.

I know it's not easy to let go of labels but that's sort of where you need to head. Once you accept that part it becomes easier to feel at ease when people are discussing sexuality and you'll find yourself not really squirming much. It takes time but hopefully you can work yourself to that point and stop caring so much about it.

[John Doe]

No.

See? That wasn't so hard.

Next question.

[cheapthrills]

Originally Posted by Neon_Ultra

All I can offer is:

Just forget the labels. And the stereotypes. And the critics. Forget everything. Do whatever you want if it makes you feel good (unless it is nonconsensual on the part of others and then you may want to reconsider, as you may want to do with other pretty bad stuff).
Otherwise, just do stuff if you want to and choose yourself to be open about it to others or not. If you are and they frown on it, surround yourselves with people who support what you do, or at least don't put you down for it.

Just don't let people - or yourself - make you feel guilty about it. It's your body, your mind. You rule this universe. Finish every act, no matter the debauchery, will a grin on your face, as a testament to your own individuation.
And remember that there are always countless people in the same situation as you, just as there are countless far more fucked up people.

Well that's my advice, but I'm not sure if anyone else would fully agree.

Exactly. Personally: I'm gay when I'm with a guy. I'm 'straight' when I'm with a woman.... naa, I'm neither, and no, I'm not 'bi', they're all just stupid labels that don't really mean anything; All of us as indivudals are more complicated than a single label can explain; I'm gay, I'm a BDSM cumslut whore, I'm a guitarist, I'm a 32 -year old who oughta ditch that beer gut... Be wahtever you are, for however long as you like; when it stops being fun, do somethign differnt. suck a cock. lick som pussy, whatever, but just be open with yourself at least. You don't have to worry about weather your 'gay', or 'striaght' as those labels don't mean anything at all. Your just you... as I am just me.. :- I'm not the same me I was when I was 15, Heck I'm not the same me I was when I was 28, we're not all ridigid in our personas, so a label that may or may not have applied, and which doesn't have any real meaning anyhow, when you were a kid is as about relivent to you now, as what reading age you might have had in your second year at primary school...
If that makes sense.. I'm not good at explainign this shit.. and I'm too drunk...

[gaymm]

IDream, couple of things. Don't beat yourself up over this. I know it is natural for people to want to put a label on things, as it somehow makes them feel part of a larger group and that they are not alone. Rest assured you are not alone. Continue in therapy, talk about it, try and find a support group. If you are worried about exposure, look for one outside of your local.

Above all, you seem to be primarily worried that you may be gay. Whether you are or not is really only your business and something you have to come to terms with. But really you just have to be comfortable being you, and try to be honest with yourself. Forget all your preconceived mores about whether or not being gay is wrong or right.

Your sexual experimentation with the other boy when you were young was just that. Many people have done that, both young and old. It doesn't make you gay, or even bisexual.
It is said that all people are in some degree bisexual, on a sliding scale, so to speak. You may be focusing too much on the one end that scares you most.

Speaking for myself, I am gay. But I know that not just from the sexual aspect of my being. I prefer to be with other men whom I find attractive or interesting, and hopefully gay too. I say gay too, because some men (not all but some) take offense to the interactions and touching or emotional talk that gay men will have with each other. I seek emotional bonds with other men. I am attracted to their looks and smells and manurisms. I like to hold hands and go on dates. I like to snuggle and hug. And I am very comfortable doing so in public or private.

I am very happy to be this way, and am comfortable being this way. Was I always? No, but luckily I sorted it out for myself. If being gay was a choice, I would choose to be gay.

best wishes, and hope you work things out for yourself, because that is all that matters.

[angelkitty7888]

Personally when i started going out with my SO i was completely comfotable with my choice and myself. I guess for me it's just i find atractive who i find atractive *shrug* i find bishonen attractive and i like watching/reading about 2 men but i don't think i'd have sex with them without my girl involved and wanting it too

I have 2 friends who are a couple and they like to say "There's men, and then there's _(insert name here)_" they find the opposite sex atractive but they love eachother very much... sometimes you just find someone desirable and there's no rhyme or reason for it

[IDreamUcream]

Thanks to everyone who took time to write out some well meaning advice.
I really appreciate it - thanks.

My opening post was a bit self indulgent; I was getting a bit mixed up.

I think this is a symptom of my mental illness.... in a way.

I think the more you keep something bottled up - the more your mind thinks about it.

Thanks for your thoughts.