'What do you think I fought for on Omaha Beach?'

[Liar]

WWII vet, life time Republican, and all around class act, offering his testimony in the gay marriage debate in Maine. Watch it. If you care about these kind of things, it will put a grin on ya face.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GrEbJBFWIPk

[cloudy]

That's what America is all about - really.

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

America is about exploitation by the powerful and oppression by your peers. Neither the elites nor the bottomfeeders wanna see you get ahead or do well.

[3113]

Oh, man. That brought tears to my eyes.

[Huckleman2000]

That man loves the right things, in the right order. His sons must be so proud!

[voluptuary_manque]

Among the Greats of the The Greatest Generation.

[JackLuis]

I think VM's comment is an example of hyperbola, not that I don't agree with his intent, to give a Vet his due.

It is just that I don't think that Phillip is anything special, my dad would have probably said the same thing.

I would bet most of his generation had a good understanding and appreciation of the constitution and the ideals behind the words. Schools were better at teaching principles when Phillip went to school.

I believe the reason that we have assholes that don't believe in equal rights is because our schools have let us down, in their primary task of preparing our children for life in a free society.

Just my opinion.

[Jenny_Jackson]

Originally Posted by JackLuis

I think VM's comment is an example of hyperbola, not that I don't agree with his intent, to give a Vet his due.

It is just that I don't think that Phillip is anything special, my dad would have probably said the same thing.

I would bet most of his generation had a good understanding and appreciation of the constitution and the ideals behind the words. Schools were better at teaching principles when Phillip went to school.

I believe the reason that we have assholes that don't believe in equal rights is because our schools have let us down, in their primary task of preparing our children for life in a free society.

Just my opinion.

Not just the schools. It's the lazy-ass parents and a lack of the draft that's helped along the way too.

Going back to the civil war it's been a tradition in my family to graduate from High School then spend, at least, one enlistment in the military. The service changes your attitude and give you a far better feel for the size of your head in the world.

Philip deserves a applause for speaking up from his heart.

[JackLuis]

Originally Posted by Jenny_Jackson

Not just the schools. It's the lazy-ass parents and a lack of the draft that's helped along the way too.

Going back to the civil war it's been a tradition in my family to graduate from High School then spend, at least, one enlistment in the military. The service changes your attitude and give you a far better feel for the size of your head in the world.

Philip deserves a applause for speaking up from his heart.

Yeah, same thing in my family. Yes he does deserve applause, Tight ass flag wavers who don't allow others the freedom they take for granted should get the boot.

[Safe_Bet]

Originally Posted by JackLuis

I think VM's comment is an example of hyperbola, not that I don't agree with his intent, to give a Vet his due.

It is just that I don't think that Phillip is anything special, my dad would have probably said the same thing.

Huh? Did you LISTEN to what he did? He was there knee deep in the carnage of all five major battles... he was in the Battle of the Bulge and Omaha Beach... THEN he was involved with treating and transporting (there by gaining unprecedented expose to) prison camp survivors and even the enemy's soldiers. THEN he raised a family, to include a gay son and ALL of them served in the military.

Not just a Vet (for which he SHOULD be honored), but a man who has experiences of seeing what man is capable of doing to man, while still holding on to his beliefs that "all men are created equal".

No, dude... not a bit of hyperbola there!

and if your dad did the same things, none for him either.

[cloudy]

Originally Posted by Safe_Bet

Huh? Did you LISTEN to what he did? He was there knee deep in the carnage of all five major battles... he was in the Battle of the Bulge and Omaha Beach... THEN he was involved with treating and transporting (there by gaining unprecedented expose to) prison camp survivors and even the enemy's soldiers. THEN he raised a family, to include a gay son and ALL of them served in the military.

Not just a Vet (for which he SHOULD be honored), but a man who has experiences of seeing what man is capable of doing to man, while still holding on to his beliefs that "all men are created equal".

No, dude... not a bit of hyperbola there!

and if your dad did the same things, none for him either.

I have to agree. That's a real man. Would that there were more like him.

[3113]

Originally Posted by Jenny_Jackson

Not just the schools. It's the lazy-ass parents and a lack of the draft that's helped along the way too.

Edited because argument was polarizing and threadjack that wasn't fair to the topic. Discussion moved here.

[amicus]

http://barbinmd.dailykos.com/

http://publicpolicypolling.blogspot....-in-maine.html

TUESDAY, OCTOBER 20, 2009
Tied in Maine
Public opinion on Question 1 in Maine, which would reject the state's law allowing same sex couples to marry, is knotted up two weeks before election day. 48% of voters in the state support it and 48% oppose it.

~~~

Politics as usual. A concerted attempt to influence the vote in Maine. One might ask who wrote the speech the Ambulance Driver/Medic stumbled over. One might query how and who put it on U-Tube (dailykos) far left wing think tank.

Look for a similar response from the opposition...thas the way down & dirty politics works...one might consider gay marriage to be a controversial issue having been voted down in several States.

Amicus

[Epmd607]

Originally Posted by amicus

http://barbinmd.dailykos.com/

http://publicpolicypolling.blogspot....-in-maine.html

TUESDAY, OCTOBER 20, 2009
Tied in Maine
Public opinion on Question 1 in Maine, which would reject the state's law allowing same sex couples to marry, is knotted up two weeks before election day. 48% of voters in the state support it and 48% oppose it.

~~~

Politics as usual. A concerted attempt to influence the vote in Maine. One might ask who wrote the speech the Ambulance Driver/Medic stumbled over. One might query how and who put it on U-Tube (dailykos) far left wing think tank.

Look for a similar response from the opposition...thas the way down & dirty politics works...one might consider gay marriage to be a controversial issue having been voted down in several States.

Amicus

Wow, in a democratic-republic there are concerted attempts at influencing votes? Someone raise Pericles from the grave and let him know this is going on! How is it a bad thing that there are two sides to a debate and that each side is trying to show why folks should vote a certain way? Propaganda has always existed, and it's not necessarily a bad thing. That's right, Amicus is a statist and has no interest in representative government, democracy, conversation, or differing ideas from Ayn Rand's Romance Fiction.

[Jenny_Jackson]

Originally Posted by 3113

Soooo...men who were drafted and fought in the WWII then came back, joined the klan, lynched black men who had also fought in that war, turned dogs on them, threw bricks at their kids when they tried to integrate and fought civil rights tooth and nail were taught honor, but kids who refused to be drafted and go to 'Nam and never served but did march for civil rights, including risking being lynched and bitten by those dogs were not taught honor.

Gotcha. Oh, and does this mean that girls never got any honor never being drafted in to the army?

Sorry, Jenny, but you know that's bullshit--offensive bullshit, too, as it implies that none but those who go into the army know how to be equal minded and honorable--and that parents are lazy rather than following a certain morality if they don't want their children to be soldiers. Double bullshit! Would you say that peace loving Quakers who refuse to fight on principle and ran the underground railroads needed to be in the army to learn how to be honorable and fair-minded?

I appreciate that the army is supposed to teach people such things, and sometimes it does if they're open to learning it and their teachers are good--and not assholes themselves, but in the end, you're either raised right or not, and sometimes even when you're raised right you make up your mind to be an asshole. Drafting a bigoted asshole into the army doesn't guarantee that you'll magically transform him into a an honest man.

Sorry 3, but I don't recall any dirt little drugged out dirt bags in the neighborhood where I grew up. Those began to appear in the 80's.

I can speak for my cousin, Steve (mother's brother's kid), though. He's the same age as me and was the worst little shit that ever lived until the AirForce got their claws in him. Now he's quite a different person.

My other cousing, Eugene (mother's sister's kid) grew up a little shit. Now he's a full grown shit only now he can do real damage. That one evaded the military like the plague.

Were their parents really much different? Not really. Those two grew up a block from each other and played together until sometime in middle school. Also Eugene is the one who married and divorced the same fat, druggy twice.

[amicus]

EPMD...I never implied it was a bad thing, I merely presented the bleeding heart liberal outpouring of concern for what it really is, like an actress crying on demand, a political stunt over an issue on the Ballot.

I wonder if being an 'Ambulance Driver' like the Hemingway character, also had an anti-war message?

Politics is fine and I don't mind writing about it, but I would never stoop to participate.

Amicus

[lisa123414]

ironic, isn't it, he fought to ensure that all posters here, even those who did not serve in the military, or have kids, could freely state their opinions

[sr71plt]

Originally Posted by 3113

Soooo...men who were drafted and fought in the WWII then came back, joined the klan, lynched black men who had also fought in that war, turned dogs on them, threw bricks at their kids when they tried to integrate and fought civil rights tooth and nail were taught honor, but kids who refused to be drafted and go to 'Nam and never served but did march for civil rights, including risking being lynched and bitten by those dogs were not taught honor.

Wow. That's such polarizing sweeping generalization crap that I'm going to go ask my idol Eleanor R. if she can come over and give you a bitch slap for disgracing the team.

[SEVERUSMAX]

Finally, someone puts the homophobes in their place! Good man!

[DeeZire]

That was one honorable dude. In 3113's defense, I didn't see a lot of honor on display at Tallihook, or in the military in general when their cavalier attitude towards rape was publicized a few years ago.

I'm glad military service was beneficial to Jenny's cousin. If she were to talk to all the female victims who were raped or sexually harrassed on military bases, she might have a different POV about the so-called "honor" instilled by military service.

[Epmd607]

Originally Posted by DeeZire

That was one honorable dude. In 3113's defense, I didn't see a lot of honor on display at Tallihook, or in the military in general when their cavalier attitude towards rape was publicized a few years ago.

I'm glad military service was beneficial to Jenny's cousin. If she were to talk to all the female victims who were raped or sexually harrassed on military bases, she might have a different POV about the so-called "honor" instilled by military service.

That's not exactly fair saying the military makes rapists. Maybe there's a higher incidence of sexual assault by military, I don't know, there are probably statistics. But saying that the military makes Klan members, rapists, is sensational and has nothing to do with talking about whether what this guy(Philip) says matters to the topic of gay marriage in maine. To me, just the fact that he's some super old dude from Maine, matters in the discussion, cuz as we know, old people don't like gays.

[amicus]

There are studies of the incidence of rape and murder among military people that make a comparison to the civil population. There is less rape and murder in the military.

I could search and provide the data, but then, so can you.

Amicus

[Epmd607]

Originally Posted by amicus

EPMD...I never implied it was a bad thing, I merely presented the bleeding heart liberal outpouring of concern for what it really is, like an actress crying on demand, a political stunt over an issue on the Ballot.

I wonder if being an 'Ambulance Driver' like the Hemingway character, also had an anti-war message?

Politics is fine and I don't mind writing about it, but I would never stoop to participate.

Amicus

Actually, that was what I was thinking, the whole Hemingway Farewell factor. I dislike you a little less now. Still, the Greeks and Romans put on similar shows in their governments to sway people to what they thought was right, even when they were outright lying. Think of Themistocles and his warships to get ready for a Persian threat no one else believed was coming, that there was actually little evidence for.

[amicus]

Originally Posted by Epmd607

Actually, that was what I was thinking, the whole Hemingway Farewell factor. I dislike you a little less now. Still, the Greeks and Romans put on similar shows in their governments to sway people to what they thought was right, even when they were outright lying. Think of Themistocles and his warships to get ready for a Persian threat no one else believed was coming, that there was actually little evidence for.

~~~

I have discovered a great many well educated and knowledgeable people here on the forum, one of the perquisites of having a podium to speak from. I suppose I can tolerate being 'disliked a little less', but don't get carried away, it might ruin my reputation.

Amicus

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Bullspit! The guy was at Normandy for the same reason everyone was at Normandy...he was drafted into the army. No one joined the army to save Western Civilization for the queers.

This is more revisionist crap to make the times seem different from what they were.