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Old 10-08-2009, 09:33 PM   #1
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Hate Crime Laws: Criminalizing Free Speech

http://infowars.net/articles/october...05hatebill.htm





Hate Crime Laws: Criminalizing Free Speech
Federal Hate Crime Bill: Don't Forget it Hasn't Gone Away

Steve Watson | October 31 2005

On September 14, 2005, the House of Representatives suddenly passed 223-199 the federal “anti-hate” bill, the Local Law Enforcement Hate Crimes Prevention Act of 2005. It was inserted as AMDT.2662 into the Children’s Safety Act. Despite all odds, the Senate Judiciary stripped the hate bill S.1145 from the Children's Safety Act on October 20th 2005, thanks in many parts to the loud voices of many broadcasters and talk radio listeners who helped reveal the reality and consequences of the hate bill.

Yet like all these draconian, freedom hating pieces of legislation, there are attempts afoot to quietly attach it to other bills and get it through on the sly. Senator Edward Kennedy is determined to reattach the hate bill, unmodified, to The Sex Offenders Registration Act, S.1088. If that fails, he may attach it to the Streamlined Procedures Act. Kennedy's staffers have told Reverend Ted Pike, one vigilant exposee of the hate bill, that they are confident of victory, considering the Senate's 65-to-33 vote in favor of the hate bill last year.

In light of these facts, let us again go over the details of the "hate bill" and further expose it for the freedom destroying and unconstitutional bill that it is.

Firstly, the bill is so dangerous because as ever it hands over more power to the federal government and effectively brings local law enforcement agencies under it's control. Allowing a centralized power structure to determine what is and what isn't "hate speech" or a "hate crime" is akin to tin-pot dictatorship. It means that there will be a broad overarching definition of what kind of speech is against the law according to which federally protected groups become offended by the opinion of someone else.

An example of this could be Christian preaching as counter protest to gay pride marches. It wouldn't be against the law for gay rights activists to preach the values they ascribe to, yet Christian activists may be committing hate crimes by simply reading from the bible. Indeed this has happened on a local level in Philadelphia, the Anti-Defamation League of B'nai B'rith, creators of the current anti-hate legislation, enforced hate laws against 11 Christians on October 10, 2004. Preaching at a gay pride rally. Possible penalties were up to 47 years in prison and $90,000 fines each. The case against them was thrown out by a higher court yet if the legislation was passed into national law maybe they wouldn't have got off so lightly.

Furthermore, the bill is in direct violation of the 14th Amendment to the US Constitution, which prohibits government from favoring any particular group.

According to Sec.7(b)(2) of the bill, the U.S. Attorney General, may pursue hate crimes indictments within states if:

A. the State does not have jurisdiction or does not intend to exercise jurisdiction. (Prosecuting hate crimes in the way the federal government wants them to)

B. the verdict or sentence obtained pursuant to State charges left demonstratively unvindicated the Federal interest in eradicating bias-motivated violence. (If states do not obtain the kind of verdict the federal government wishes in a hate crimes trial)


So really the bill allows the federal government to intervene and over rule all state and local laws should it wish to. This is effectively placing the power over many into the hands of the very few. It is much easier to corrupt and control the very few than the many.

The legislation would also ban alleged discrimination based on sexual orientation, whether actual or perceived, as well as “gender,” which is a code word for transgender, cross-dresser, or transvestite. Homosexual activist groups want federal legal protections for individuals with serious gender identity disorders. If the bill ever passed we could see situations whereby you would be criminally liable if you “discriminated” against a man who wished to wear a dress to work—or to use a woman’s restroom because he “thinks” he’s really a woman.



The bill in this sense also fractures society whilst claiming to unify it. Many gay rights activists are out to prove that they are no different to the rest of society, they want to live their lives and be entitled to the same freedoms that everyone else is. Yet this hate crime bill singles them out as a minority group. It allows for children as young as Kindergarten age in the public schools systems to be forced to attend "diversity workshops" and undertake "GLBT (Gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgendered) Studies". In addition to the traditional Prom night, "Gay proms" and the like are becoming the norm at public schools. This only serves to single out and distance people of alternative sexual preference and restrict theirs as well as everyone else's freedoms.

Furthermore, home schooled children often pulled out of public schools for some of the reasons listed above, are not being allowed to receive certification if their parents do not teach a curriculum that incorporates appreciation for "sexual diversity". Lets bypass the argument over sexual diversity and go straight to the fact that Kindergarten children should NOT be being taught ANYTHING about sexuality. Who in their right mind would want to enforce sex education on kids barely out of diapers?

The federal government argues that there is a need for this extreme legislation because there is currently an "epidemic of hate" against people of alternative sexual preference. Yet according to FBI "hate crimes" figures recently released in 2003, of the 11.9 million reported crimes only 1430 were "bias crimes" against a person's sexual orientation. Of those, 433 were listed as intimidation or simple name calling.

Let us put this more into perspective. The bill directly violates freedom of religion in this sense as it declares moral disapproval to be unacceptable. It condemns the religious beliefs not only of Christians, but also of Jews and Muslims who according to their faiths consider homosexuality and unorthodox sexual practices to be morally wrong. The federal hate bill effectively equates such reservations with the racist views of White supremacists, Nazis and Klansmen. This means a hell of a lot of people are going to be determined to be "hate criminals".

More generally of those 11.9 million hate crimes, only 7489 were against all categories (race, religion. Gender, sexual orientation, etc.) covered by the proposed hate bill. This is hardly an "epidemic" that needs to be stopped by drastically changing the entire system of nationwide law enforcement.


Of course the bill would also mean the freedom previously enjoyed by talk radio hosts such as Alex Jones would come under considerable threat. Take last month for example when Alex, as director of the Texans For Freedom Group, led a counter demonstration at the Texas United Latino Artists (TULA) march.

The demonstration was not against TULA per se, many of the organizers and groups participating in the TULA parade were simply celebrating their heritage. However, some of the groups participating, like MECHA and La Raza, are overtly racist and Alex set out to expose this to the media.

Should an overarching definition of "hate crime" be determined by ADL/federal definition that 'hate' equals bias against federally-protected groups, then such groups that claim to be celebrating their heritage may fall into that category. The bill states that a "hate crime" would be defined by actual or perceived religion, national origin, gender, sexual orientation, gender identity, or disability.



The MECHA, motto is, “Everything for the race, for those outside the race nothing,” and La Raza, means “The Race” in Spanish. These groups are no different to the Klu Klux Klan with their overtly racist ideologies, yet they claim they are defending their national origin and media still does nothing to expose them for what they are.

Should the hate bill pass then people like Alex Jones could find themselves arrested under hate crimes laws for protesting against groups that openly promote hatred but get away with it because they "hate" those in the majority.

If the bill was to pass at some point we may find ourselves down the road living in a country where you cannot criticize anything or anyone the government determines to be in the right. And how will this be policed? Most probably via the subtle encouragement of tittle-tattling and spying on your neighbours.

This would be akin to Orwell's ministry of love in 1984 and Big Brother's thought crime law. New generations would grow up to naturally consider criticism of anything in general wrong and even thinking or considering something contradictory to be a crime.


In summary: The federal hate bill criminalizes thoughts and feelings. It directly violates the Constitution. The bill violates freedom of religion. The bill violates freedom of speech. The bill is not a response to a "hate crime epidemic" because there isn't a hate crime epidemic. The bill interferes with local law enforcement and effectively federalizes it. The bill fractures society whilst claiming to unify it.
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Old 10-08-2009, 10:10 PM   #2
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They're going the other way in Canada since a recent court case.
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Old 10-08-2009, 10:46 PM   #3
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Four threads on the same subject in less than an hour? Seriously?
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Old 10-08-2009, 11:46 PM   #4
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Very serious.
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Old 10-09-2009, 12:47 AM   #5
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One can only assume the only reason that congress wants this bill passed is because it's full of GLBT folk intent on taking over merika!
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Old 10-09-2009, 01:45 AM   #6
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Why would you say anything hateful in the 1st place?
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Old 10-09-2009, 02:00 AM   #7
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Quote:
Why would you say anything hateful in the 1st place?
I'll keep this simple.

You dont let people control what is talked about.
--> what if the definitions of 'hate' speak are extended?
--> to include stuff that you talk about?
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Old 10-09-2009, 02:14 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by ImOnIt View Post
I'll keep this simple.

You dont let people control what is talked about.
--> what if the definitions of 'hate' speak are extended?
--> to include stuff that you talk about?
You didn't answer my question and that isn't what is going on here.
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Old 10-09-2009, 10:48 AM   #9
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Obama's sure trying to get rid of free speech!!!
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Old 10-09-2009, 11:25 AM   #10
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Obama's sure trying to get rid of free speech!!!
welcome Mark Lloyd, Obama's FCC Head. let's listen to his plan for fairness in media, mmmkay?
take it,Marky Mark !
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ovnwzMJf09o
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Old 10-09-2009, 12:00 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SgtSpiderMan View Post
Why would you say anything hateful in the 1st place?
The answer to your question is, it's none of your fucking business what I say, unless I engage in libel or slander.
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Old 10-09-2009, 11:53 PM   #12
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The answer to your question is, it's none of your fucking business what I say, unless I engage in libel or slander.
Or if you yell "fire" in a crowded theatre when there is no fire.
Or what you "say" has no artistic, political or literary merit.
Or if what you "say" would be deemed offensive by a reasonable member of the community.
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Old 10-10-2009, 12:05 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by SgtSpiderMan View Post
Or what you "say" has no artistic, political or literary merit.
Say what?

Most of what you type falls into this category. Not being mean, just being accurate.

What happens now?
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Old 10-10-2009, 04:38 PM   #14
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Say what?

Most of what you type falls into this category. Not being mean, just being accurate.

What happens now?
That's how the 1st Amendment works.
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Old 10-10-2009, 04:43 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by SgtSpiderMan View Post
That's how the 1st Amendment works.
You cited three examples in the post I quoted.

The first is a famous case where freedom of speech is subject to limits.

The implication was the other two were similar, when clearly they are no such thing, so it's not at all clear what you trying to say.
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Old 10-10-2009, 04:54 PM   #16
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Personally I think that hate crime laws are bullshit.

It doesn't matter if you beat up / murdered / drag behind a truck someone because you hated them because of their race / sexual orientation / whatthefuckever..

The actual crime is that you beat them up / murdered / dragged them behind a truck. It doesn't matter if you did it because you hate them for whatever reason or that you thought it just might be a fun Saturday night. You are no more or less a criminal and they are no more or less injured or dead.
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Old 10-10-2009, 05:01 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ulaven_Demorte View Post
Personally I think that hate crime laws are bullshit.

It doesn't matter if you beat up / murdered / drag behind a truck someone because you hated them because of their race / sexual orientation / whatthefuckever..

The actual crime is that you beat them up / murdered / dragged them behind a truck. It doesn't matter if you did it because you hate them for whatever reason or that you thought it just might be a fun Saturday night. You are no more or less a criminal and they are no more or less injured or dead.
I agree with this. Too much lawmaking in recent years has been totally unnecessary. Furthermore it is counter-productive. The older law, based on good sense and sound precedent, falls into disuse. The new law,passed "because doing nothing is not an option", is riddled with uncertainties and only serves to bring law into disrepute.
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Old 10-10-2009, 05:05 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by firespin View Post
You cited three examples in the post I quoted.

The first is a famous case where freedom of speech is subject to limits.

The implication was the other two were similar, when clearly they are no such thing, so it's not at all clear what you trying to say.
Freedom of speech is limited in all the examples I posted.
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Old 10-10-2009, 05:10 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by SgtSpiderMan View Post
Why would you say anything hateful in the 1st place?
The point is not that someone says something hateful, but that a group decide they have the right to decree that some forms of speech constitute a hate crime, and then pass a law to make it so.
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Old 10-10-2009, 05:51 PM   #21
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Freedom of speech is limited in all the examples I posted.
So you say.

The second two cases you cited are, as far as I know, not covered by any constitutionally-tested statutes.

What laws were you thinking of?

I'm thinking you're trying to pick out subsets of laws trying to define and limit pornography. You can't just select one clause of these multipart tests and use it standalone, and for a completely different purpose.

Last edited by firespin : 10-10-2009 at 05:56 PM.
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Old 10-10-2009, 06:55 PM   #22
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So you say.

The second two cases you cited are, as far as I know, not covered by any constitutionally-tested statutes.

What laws were you thinking of?

I'm thinking you're trying to pick out subsets of laws trying to define and limit pornography. You can't just select one clause of these multipart tests and use it standalone, and for a completely different purpose.
I'm still thinking of the 1st Amendment.
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Old 10-10-2009, 07:10 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SgtSpiderMan View Post
Or what you "say" has no artistic, political or literary merit.
Or if what you "say" would be deemed offensive by a reasonable member of the community.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SgtSpiderMan View Post
I'm still thinking of the 1st Amendment.
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

I don't see anything in there about the speech under consideration having "no artistic, political, or literary merit, or of it being deemed offensive by anyone at all.
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Old 10-10-2009, 07:16 PM   #24
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Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

I don't see anything in there about the speech under consideration having "no artistic, political, or literary merit, or of it being deemed offensive by anyone at all.
Well then, I guess I can go on the radio and repeatedly say "motherfucker, shitface, blowjob" without any ramifications from the government.
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Old 10-10-2009, 07:24 PM   #25
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Well then, I guess I can go on the radio and repeatedly say "motherfucker, shitface, blowjob" without any ramifications from the government.
That's the FCC regs, not the 1st Amendment. And you can, on satellite radio. Or cable TV.
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