Female-Led Relationships

Thank you for the honesty, CuttingEdge

CuttingEdge said:

I think one of the issues that faces the world today is the rise in female Led Relationships.

One thing that gets muddled is control and romance.

For a lot of women that have been stung by divorce, or multiple divorces; is that they gave up a lot for their men, like moving into their house, having their children, and generally giving of themselves for that person. And it really hurt them, so they are very guarded.

However, a man can take that "guardedness" which is really fear of being hurt again, and assume that the woman wants a hands-off approach, and that is not the case at all. They don't want to be hurt again, but they still like romance. It's okay for the man to hold the door for her once and awhile, or buy her flowers, or leave a note just saying, "I love you", once and awhile.

But what happens far too often, is that the man... who has an ego that easily gets bruised... takes a comment that is made, and stops being romantic altogether thinking that's what the woman wants. But that is not it at all.

So what is the answer? For me, it is drawing a bath for my wife, setting a snack on the tub beside her, a good book and a glass of wine. While she is soaking, I'll even throw a towel in the dryer for her so it is warm and fluffy when she starts to prune. That puts her needs first, but yet is also romantic. There should not be an expectation of sex afterwards by any means, but woe to the wife that does not thank her husband for that either. If a lay scoffs at such a show of kindness (romance) then she is going to deeply bruise the mans ego.

I think there should be a lot more of that, and I will toss myself under the bus, I do not do that enough!

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I do agree about the little things getting lost along the way... I do have more to post about that myself. But you're perfectly right about the importance of unconditional kindness. Otherwise it isn't truly kindness at all...

littlecordelera said:

Oh! You may be correct! But if what you say constitutes an FLR, then almost every marriage is an FLR.

So if a woman does not submit to sex because she is not in the mood, that amounts to an FLR?

Wow. Then I am in the wrong thread. And I don't know what Jason and I should call our relationship, because there is no way I am ever going to "lead from the bottom."

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I think what I was getting at is that women have more control in their relationship than they get credit for.

What's getting lost in the mix, IMHO, (it's my belief) all parties involved are not only consenting adults... They're willing participants, and to a small or large extent (when you read between the lines), it's appreciable FemLeds (that's awful... please someone help me) are encouraged/supported by the people around them to be who they are.

I don't believe in life, you can agree with someone 100% of the time. IMHO, it's impossible. So where others see FemLed constraint/constriction, I see as structure, and that's what I find alluring/attractive/brilliant from my subby POV.

I'm monogamous, so I don't agree of some FemLeds 'extra curricular' activities. But again, I understand/appreciate that's their lifestyle, like every other person's lifestyle on Lit, and that's just the way they roll. With all due respect, you can take it, or leave it...

I think in 2021 it gets kind of difficult for the man in a Female-Led-Relationship because the former rules or etiquette is no longer so clearly defined.

Obvious the woman in the relationship wants to lead, but on what?

I would think on some things she would still want a little assertiveness by the man, or at least, want him to initiate things, like kissing, or changing sex positions, or that kind of thing. In other words, at some point I would think she would think, 'Why does he just do BLANK for me once and awhile?

I can see where a man that was Subby, would be hesitant to do that because he THINKS always letting her take the lead is what she wants, and being Subby, he gets enjoyment out of being submissive for her, so there is a lot of reasons for him to conclude letting her lead would be best.

I can't imagine even the most Leading-Woman being upset if she walked through the door and her husband passionately made out with her. That lends itself to be wanted, and I don't know of any woman that does not love the feeling of being desired.

How to sub with a Vanilla Lover | A guide on shades of FLR | Happy Feet

This might be a divisive post, I don’t know… As I’m not entirely sure all subs adore Women’s feet? I presume many do though, as it seems the customary approach when you’re down there worshiping a Lady/Domme, it’s her feet you’re closest to, and she’ll want you to kiss/adore them.

What I’m sure about is this; most Women enjoy a good foot massage (a great encounter!), Ladies/Dommes, or Vanilla Lovers, it makes no difference.

If you don’t know how to massage a foot, you need to practice! Any ideas who you can practice on? No… Not your Vanilla Lover… You! You'll need to be pretty good before you massage your Vanilla Lover’s feet. Maybe practice first thing when you wake up, or (like me) when you’re in the restroom. It shouldn’t take long for you to get a feel for it (may be a couple of weeks or so, practicing everyday). You can also research online, as there's a lot of information out there!

When you’re ready, ask your Vanilla Lover in the evening when you’re sat watching TV (or alternatively switch off the lights, light up some candles, and play some ambient music). Suggest she can be sat on the sofa (substitute your own furniture here), while you are sat on the floor (achieving your sub POV). You could turn your back to the TV, or watch it (or turn it off). But either way, make sure you start gently and only add more pressure if she wants it. Remember, we have to march to the beat of her drum. Keep talking, and you’ll get there eventually.

When you finish, why not thank her for the pleasure, and kiss her feet by way of thanks? Don’t go overboard, just a few delicate kisses on each foot will suffice. If you haven’t done it before, she might find it a bit funny to begin with. But not necessarily a deal breaker, trust me. My Vanilla Lover converted in a reasonable time, and doesn’t flinch or feel uncomfortable at all anymore. She now sometimes asks for a foot massage, but if she hasn’t for a while, I’ll ask instead. What’s nice, she no longer questions about my sitting on the floor when I massage her feet (I use a cushion to sit on).

As an offshoot to this, she may ask for hand, back, shoulder, and neck massages as well. Be careful though. The rest of the body is not as 'easy' as massaging a foot (with all due respect to Women's feet). I’ve been fortunate in attending many sessions with various qualified physiotherapists, and learned a few methods over the years. You could research online for detail (even attend a course if you want to), or book a few sessions with a locally qualified physiotherapist. Ask their opinion/advice? Whatever you do, its worth your time as it’s a life skill. When your Vanilla Lover knows you’re good at massages, she’ll look forward to them, and really appreciate the attention. As a bonus, she’ll be more than happy for you to kiss any other part of her you’ve finished massaging as well…

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JamesCole said:

Thank you for bringing up this topic.

Like several other posters I too was in a undefined FLR that unfortunately was characterized by no communication, no way of expressing emotions, and chaos which ultimately spiraled into an abusive relationship of eight years.

The relationship ended six years ago but I found myself seeking out women with bossy, controlling personalities, but I didn't understand myself well enough at the time to know why.

After much soul searching, therapy and self honesty I now understand that the bossyness, controlling, and even bitchyness was something that fulfilled an inner need of mine, and that is okay as long as it's agreed upon, defined, out in the open and with boundaries.

After many years of no contact I began a dialogue with my ex. I was brutally honest about my submissive desires and it's actually been like a new beginning.

Despite living far from each other she has engaged in some online domination of me. As I was honest about my desires for SPH, and submissive BDSM she now calls me "Little Dick" (which I love!) and sometimes she requires that I get in the pet cage nude and send her pictures.

She requires that I pay her for her pictures and I willingly do so, having found that I also enjoy being her pay slave and bitch.

My Literotica fantasy story is based partly on real events from our time together and I have shared it with her, which is a big leap for me because I was open about my bi-sexuality. That is something I didn't share during our time together but she's been very receptive.

I'd really like more from her but I have no illusions about a possible serious future together. What I've learned is that honesty and openness are key, as they are to any successful relationship.

Pm me if you'd like to know more and thanks again for the thread.

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I find your post very heartwarming. The fact you divorced, then became self aware, and (in a fashion) reconnected with your ex. I hope you're still connected...

Yes... this exactly...

lady_jennaxx said:

Ordering someone around and expecting your bidding to be done without question isn't my thing. I prefer a much more cerebral, gentle dynamic where my strength isn't used to wield punishment, moreso guidance and nurturing.

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I was fortunate enough to fall, almost accidentally, into a wonderful Female-Led relationship roughly a year ago.

After seeing a pro-domme for a couple of sessions, she graciously made the offer for me to serve her as a lifestyle sub.

As my relationship with this amazing woman began to develop, what struck me the most was how often it challenged my (rather cliched) preconceived notions of what a real-life Female/male D/s relationship actually entailed.

Over time, our relationship has evolved to, more or less, look like this:

- A non-sexual friendship.
At least non-sexual on her part - She always remains fully clothed in front of me, and I never touch Her in a sexual manner (although, I do give Her the odd foot rub when asked to). I, on the other hand, can expect her to 'enjoy' my body however She see fit. This can range from Her simply enjoying watching me as I work for Her (clothed, or unclothed, Her discretion), all the way up to tying me up in her dungeon and flogging me and then requesting I masturbate in front of her.

- An actual friendship.
Although there is a rather overt kink/fetish nature to our relationship, I would say, conservatively, that upwards of 90% of our interactions are simply those of two friends platonically interacting with one another. We go out to eat, attend vanilla events and activities, and, above all, spend a very large amount of the relationship simply talking with one another.

- Much of the enjoyment that I get out of the relationship comes from to what could be termed simple domestic servitude.
I do a lot of work for Her, ranging from cooking and cleaning to more involved yard and construction work. Sometimes, this activity has a more explicit sexual D/s nature to it (She loves to watch me dust and vacuum while naked), other times it's much more practical, utilitarian work that I'm helping Her with. But either way, I find we both really enjoy this, Her from a standpoint of getting much needed work done in Her home as well as the sometimes added benefit of the sexual enjoyment she gets from watching me work for her, and I have found that I UTTERLY ADORE the way I feel when I'm serving Her, sexually or otherwise.

There is just something SO CALMING for me as I do work for this Woman. Whether I'm naked and visibly aroused while dusting for Her, or fully clothed and ripping out a counter top at Her direction, I find the feeling of serving, purely and completely, a kind, caring, dominant Woman puts me in a sublime subspace. I NEVER in a million years would have thought this would appeal to me so strongly, but it does.

And part of this ties in with the OP's quote above about the domme not "just ordering" the sub around. I never feel like we're playing out some hackneyed D/s scene when I work for Her. She is not a bitchy, angry controlling domme. But she is UNMISTAKABLY dominant nonetheless. One of the more challenging aspects of the relationship has been learning this, as it does run counter to so much of the more superficial literature/porn out there regarding dominant women. But the more I learn about it, the more I'm convinced that this type of dominance has so much more deep power and confidence to it. It not a facade, or an act, it's who She really is; an unmistakingly confident and dominant women who is supremely comfortable in Her own skin.

I think this is one of the reasons I feel such a sense of overwhelming calm when I do serve Her. There is no artifice to her power and dominance, it's who she really is. And, as a result, I think the great calm I feel in Her presence while serving Her probably comes down to how safe She makes me feel.

liv2srv said:

Yes... this exactly...



I was fortunate enough to fall, almost accidentally, into a wonderful Female-Led relationship roughly a year ago.

After seeing a pro-domme for a couple of sessions, she graciously made the offer for me to serve her as a lifestyle sub.

As my relationship with this amazing woman began to develop, what struck me the most was how often it challenged my (rather cliched) preconceived notions of what a real-life Female/male D/s relationship actually entailed.

Over time, our relationship has evolved to, more or less, look like this:

- A non-sexual friendship.
At least non-sexual on her part - She always remains fully clothed in front of me, and I never touch Her in a sexual manner (although, I do give Her the odd foot rub when asked to). I, on the other hand, can expect her to 'enjoy' my body however She see fit. This can range from Her simply enjoying watching me as I work for Her (clothed, or unclothed, Her discretion), all the way up to tying me up in her dungeon and flogging me and then requesting I masturbate in front of her.

- An actual friendship.
Although there is a rather overt kink/fetish nature to our relationship, I would say, conservatively, that upwards of 90% of our interactions are simply those of two friends platonically interacting with one another. We go out to eat, attend vanilla events and activities, and, above all, spend a very large amount of the relationship simply talking with one another.

- Much of the enjoyment that I get out of the relationship comes from to what could be termed simple domestic servitude.
I do a lot of work for Her, ranging from cooking and cleaning to more involved yard and construction work. Sometimes, this activity has a more explicit sexual D/s nature to it (She loves to watch me dust and vacuum while naked), other times it's much more practical, utilitarian work that I'm helping Her with. But either way, I find we both really enjoy this, Her from a standpoint of getting much needed work done in Her home as well as the sometimes added benefit of the sexual enjoyment she gets from watching me work for her, and I have found that I UTTERLY ADORE the way I feel when I'm serving Her, sexually or otherwise.

There is just something SO CALMING for me as I do work for this Woman. Whether I'm naked and visibly aroused while dusting for Her, or fully clothed and ripping out a counter top at Her direction, I find the feeling of serving, purely and completely, a kind, caring, dominant Woman puts me in a sublime subspace. I NEVER in a million years would have thought this would appeal to me so strongly, but it does.

And part of this ties in with the OP's quote above about the domme not "just ordering" the sub around. I never feel like we're playing out some hackneyed D/s scene when I work for Her. She is not a bitchy, angry controlling domme. But she is UNMISTAKABLY dominant nonetheless. One of the more challenging aspects of the relationship has been learning this, as it does run counter to so much of the more superficial literature/porn out there regarding dominant women. But the more I learn about it, the more I'm convinced that this type of dominance has so much more deep power and confidence to it. It not a facade, or an act, it's who She really is; an unmistakingly confident and dominant women who is supremely comfortable in Her own skin.

I think this is one of the reasons I feel such a sense of overwhelming calm when I do serve Her. There is no artifice to her power and dominance, it's who she really is. And, as a result, I think the great calm I feel in Her presence while serving Her probably comes down to how safe She makes me feel.

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Thanks for your post about your relationship liv2srv... I don't think there is the right way or wrong way when it comes to two people in a relationship. It either works (because you both want it to) or it doesn't. But when it works and you're both happy with the status quo, that's great. That's how it should be for everyone.

I agree, Dominant Women are portrayed in very extreme/distorted/highly stylized ways in the pornographic industry. That portrayal lends itself to many a preconceived opinion. Yet in reality, there are many different shades of domination. I'd say its the same of subs as well.

I consider myself as having sub kinks. My Wife and I most of the time are in sync. We agree on most things, and when we don't its a discussion, not usually an argument. Her dominance (derived from many years at work) can leak in to our home life, but I'm cool with that. My point is our dynamic works because we're two disparate pieces separately, but work extremely well together. And as I understand it, your dynamic works extremely well too.

Although I will admit, if I wasn't married, Lady Jenna's outlook would be inline with what I would look for in a Lady, or Domme.

How to sub with a Vanilla Lover | A guide to shades of FLR | Service with a Smile

I know Servitude won’t appeal to all subs’ desires/kinks. But again, please bare with me… I appreciate there are permutations of dynamics to consider:

Female Worker | Male Stay at Home

Female Worker | Male Worker

Female Stay at Home | Male Worker

Female Stay at Home | Male Stay at Home

The above dynamics can in some cases make sub Servitude challenging. But Servitude can come in many shapes and forms. My interpretation is based on the first dynamic.

I do have some House Boy kink I believe. Ideally I’d like nothing better than to go about my duties around the house, with an apron (not frilly) on sometimes, and nothing else when my Vanilla Lover is around. Practicalities ensue though. So I can’t actually do that with kids running around. However as always, timing is crucial.

In the evening when it’s just you and your Vanilla Lover, there is much you can do. My Vanilla Lover likes a little drink at night. So I’ll get it for her. I’ll bow as I pass her drink, and I could even kneel on one knee. But I worry about spilling the drink, so the bow suffices. And I can cook a meal should we decide to do so…

I cook supper five to six days a week for my family. I take pride in this, and enjoy the challenge. I appreciate those subs who work cannot do this, but on your days off, why not try? She can just relax, chill out. You could cook up a meal. If you can’t cook, there are plenty of ready meals you could use to start with. But the creme le creme is cooking from scratch! This will transform her POV of you, as she’ll know you are going to considerable effort to cook your joint meal.

You going to have to start from somewhere… Start with the basics… Eggs! There are many ways you can cook an egg, some easier than others. Do some research online. Practice before you need to impress her. She may find it a bit odd, but if you master cooking an omelette for example, you can add more ingredients in to it, and make it quite a filling meal for two. She’ll understand you’re just starting out and eat it in support of you. As your confidence grows, you may look in to buying a cook book. Keep it simple, buy a cook book with basic recipes that don’t need too many ingredients. And practice, practice, practice. If you can master beyond the basics, that will increase your confidence in cooking. Then you can build on your prior experience to learn how to cook more challenging meals in the future.

You could plan one evening or even two, when you cook for her. If the timing is appropriate, you could undress a little (if that's your thing), and feel a little more sub. However you approach it, have fun, and really spoil her.

Other types of Servitude come under Chivalry. You know, like you used to open the door for her when you were dating? Front door, car door, shop door, its pretty endless, but you get the idea. Also holding hands when you walk. And when she least expects it, kiss her hand for fun.

I’ve seen online plenty of photos of men as tables, chairs, and a number of other variations for their Ladies/Dommes. But they are taken to an extreme for the pornographic industry. Undoubtedly, if you presented one of these positions to your Vanilla Lover, she’d probably laugh, then tell you to get up, and stop being daft. The objective, as part of this post and others, is to cater for your Vanilla Lover sensibilities/expectations. In this instance, simply supporting her feet (after you’ve given them a massage…) as you’re sat on the floor, is Servitude worthy. My Vanilla Lover will rest her feet in my palms facing upwards, while my thumbs caress the tops of her feet. She finds this very soothing.

Another variation, if I either cross my legs, or bend my knees, she has a choice of two heights to rest her legs/feet. It’s pretty basic stuff, but as you can appreciate, very sub too.

I’ve also varnished my Vanilla Lover’s toenails, and moisturized her feet many times. I find none of the aforementioned Servitude either tiresome, or tedious. I have pride in what I do for her. It’s simply my pleasure to see my Vanilla Lover relaxed, content, and happy. However I achieve that, it’s a win for both of us.

I’m not sharing anything that’s new with any of these posts. But you have to appreciate what defines an encounter (which makes a difference to her) and what does not. I would say anything Chivalrous is not quite an encounter, but it’s a nice thing to do (as it will enhance her POV of you, but not elevate it). Neither is vacuuming the house! In summary, whenever you tend to your Vanilla Lover directly qualifies as an encounter.

So why not plan to cook for your Vanilla Lover this week? Practice makes perfect… Make it a great meal, and who knows… Dessert may blow your mind…

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pplwatching said:

People and relationships are much too complex to put in "alpha", "beta", or whatever other box sells porn or fuels fantasies. I'm sure that there are people who enjoy dominating or being dominated, but would venture to guess that many people in an FLR wouldn't describe themselves the way that porn would have us believe.

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Yeah, too right...

JJA122 said:

I just realised I witnessed a marriage like this when I was younger - possibly why this idea intrigues me now.
The husband took the wife’s surname and was the one that cooked. The wife could be stern sometimes and the husband was slightly passive.
Apart from that it was a, ahem, ‘normal’ marriage, the husband worked full time while the wife worked part time and usually catered to the children.

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I think it's more prevalent than you first realise... When I look back to the past, I remember several couples in my family, and friends of, who would today be defined as FLR.

Justplatonic said:

I think it's more prevalent than you first realise... When I look back to the past, I remember several couples in my family, and friends of, who would today be defined as FLR.

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I was almost there, had several of the signs.

kucked2x said:

I was almost there, had several of the signs.

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Sorry to read that... If you don't mind me asking, what happened?

Justplatonic said:

But the creme le creme is cooking from scratch! This will transform her POV of you, as she’ll know you are going to considerable effort to cook your joint meal.

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One of the most enlightening/enjoyable aspects of serving a dominant Woman for me has been being able to educate my rather ignorant, cave-man self about what truly brings a Woman pleasure. And your statement about cooking from scratch really hits the nail on the head for me.

We men are such simple, clumsy creatures when it comes to sexual arousal. For us, for the most part, it's about a rather simplistic element of physical release that we look for to gratify ourselves sexually. However, the Female mind can be infinitely more complex.

Case in point:

Early on in our relationship, I was dusting for Mistress in Her living room/dining area. I was wearing only a skimpy, see-through thong, while taking Her direction on which items to clean - end tables, shelves, little curios/knick-knacks etc.

We were both enjoying ourselves. Her, enjoying my submission to Her in the form of my dress, activities and deference. Me, well, as man, I was naked, in front of a Woman! But I was also feeling truly submissive as I was told how to go about my duties, knowing I was 'on display'/'performing' for my Mistress.

However, as time went on, Mistress, satisfied I could competently execute my duties without excessive input from Her, began to engage me in more general conversation. We began to talk openly with one another about a wide range of topics. During this time, I began to dust Her dining room table, and, then the chairs for the table itself. She had not asked me to dust the chairs, I just took it upon myself to do so. It was then that I noticed that, like so many chairs in so many houses, there was a build up of dust on the support struts between the chair legs.

Without direction from Mistress, I took it upon myself to get down on all fours, and give the 'undercarriage' of each chair a proper 'going over' with the dust rag.

I scarcely gave this action a second thought. But Mistress later informed me that this behavior on my part had super-charged the level of arousal She was already experiencing during my dusting. I felt my own arousal building as I blushed with pride when She informed me that I was making Her wet.

After I finished the dusting, Mistress explained just what, in particular, it was that had excited Her so:

A male sub, showing initiative and attention to detail above and beyond what was originally expected of him.

Like I say, as a typical, dunderheaded male, I never in a million years would have known that this type of behavior would have the potential to arouse a Woman so. But in the months since, I've been fortunate enough to talk with other Dommes and Women about this. They all, for the most part, have confirmed what my Mistress told me on that day; that the sight of a submissive man, paying extreme, self-motivated attention to detail while carrying out duties or chores can be a serious toe-curler for many Women.

Who knew? Not I. But now that I do, it motivates even more to demonstrate my attention to detail and dedication to the task at hand. And, if I think about it, this is probably what my Mistress was hoping for all along...

liv2srv said:

One of the most enlightening/enjoyable aspects of serving a dominant Woman for me has been being able to educate my rather ignorant, cave-man self about what truly brings a Woman pleasure. And your statement about cooking from scratch really hits the nail on the head for me.

We men are such simple, clumsy creatures when it comes to sexual arousal. For us, for the most part, it's about a rather simplistic element of physical release that we look for to gratify ourselves sexually. However, the Female mind can be infinitely more complex.

Case in point:

Early on in our relationship, I was dusting for Mistress in Her living room/dining area. I was wearing only a skimpy, see-through thong, while taking Her direction on which items to clean - end tables, shelves, little curios/knick-knacks etc.

We were both enjoying ourselves. Her, enjoying my submission to Her in the form of my dress, activities and deference. Me, well, as man, I was naked, in front of a Woman! But I was also feeling truly submissive as I was told how to go about my duties, knowing I was 'on display'/'performing' for my Mistress.

However, as time went on, Mistress, satisfied I could competently execute my duties without excessive input from Her, began to engage me in more general conversation. We began to talk openly with one another about a wide range of topics. During this time, I began to dust Her dining room table, and, then the chairs for the table itself. She had not asked me to dust the chairs, I just took it upon myself to do so. It was then that I noticed that, like so many chairs in so many houses, there was a build up of dust on the support struts between the chair legs.

Without direction from Mistress, I took it upon myself to get down on all fours, and give the 'undercarriage' of each chair a proper 'going over' with the dust rag.

I scarcely gave this action a second thought. But Mistress later informed me that this behavior on my part had super-charged the level of arousal She was already experiencing during my dusting. I felt my own arousal building as I blushed with pride when She informed me that I was making Her wet.

After I finished the dusting, Mistress explained just what, in particular, it was that had excited Her so:

A male sub, showing initiative and attention to detail above and beyond what was originally expected of him.

Like I say, as a typical, dunderheaded male, I never in a million years would have known that this type of behavior would have the potential to arouse a Woman so. But in the months since, I've been fortunate enough to talk with other Dommes and Women about this. They all, for the most part, have confirmed what my Mistress told me on that day; that the sight of a submissive man, paying extreme, self-motivated attention to detail while carrying out duties or chores can be a serious toe-curler for many Women.

Who knew? Not I. But now that I do, it motivates even more to demonstrate my attention to detail and dedication to the task at hand. And, if I think about it, this is probably what my Mistress was hoping for all along...

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That's an awesome story liv2srv. You're like some kind of super-sub! Who knew initiative could be so rewarding? But you kept an open mind, and you were unconditionally kind. You didn't know or expect the outcome, or indeed if there was to be one. That's a valuable lesson to learn. Kudos!

How to sub with a Vanilla Lover | A guide to shades of FLR | It's All in a Kiss

When was the last time you gave your Vanilla Lover a long kiss, or a snog? Like Cher, Prince, and Tom Jones sang about? You know the type… When your heads are slowly moving, lips locked together, tongues doing the twist, arms wrapped tightly around each other… If you’re struggling to remember, that’s not a good sign.

Its another one of those idiosyncrasies which recedes over time. You may still peck each other for pleasantries, but they don’t truly constitute a proper kiss. They don’t carry any cravats, or passion. They’re empty, devoid of any real meaning or value. You may not think that now, but when you start kissing properly again, you’ll realise its true.

I don’t think you can call a proper kiss an encounter though, as you’d cancel out your quota before you know it. My point is a proper kiss is an enhancer, and its my belief you can have unlimited enhancers per day. Again, quality rather than quantity please.

Perhaps your good morning, and good night kisses ought to be snogs. What a great way to start and end the day? May be throw in a have a nice day at work, and did you have a nice day at work kisses as well while you’re at it. Making time for kisses in an investment in love, pure and simple. Its a worthwhile cause.

A proper kiss releases so many feel good chemicals in the human body. A snog will really tell your Vanilla Lover you accept her in your body space, and you adore her with a passion. And for those minutes, the world around you just melts away. Now that’s kissing…

Not much sub content here, but what do you think you could achieve with your rediscovered passion for smooching your Vanilla Lover? Any ideas? Do I need to draw any pictures? It stands to reason, if you’re great at snogging, its a done deal you’re going to be great at kissing other places on your Vanilla Lover. You could kneel (and feel more sub) as much as you like under those circumstances, as I’m sure most Women wouldn’t notice when you kiss so well. Throw in some tongue action, and sky’s the limit…

As a side note, smiling is often underestimated. Everyone knows the power of a smile. Yes, its an enhancer, but timing is crucial, as a well placed smile works wonders. May be when you lock eyes with your Vanilla Lover first thing in the morning (and last thing at night), just before you snog her, give her your widest (but natural) smile. While she smiles back just as widely, you heart will skip a beat like mine does.

This isn’t a long post, just a quickie. Please make sure from now on, your kisses don’t follow suit.

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Scareltt said:

I’ve said this before, but I’ll say it again.

A Female Led Relationship or a Wife Led Marriage have very little to do with sex. Using the male sex drive is only one tool. There are many components. At the end of the day these relationships are about the woman. It’s about her needs and desires.

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jackofthedawn said:

Agreed, except that, as with any successful relationship, it must fulfill the needs and desires of all parties involved.

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IMHO, I think you're both right, but in certain quantities. Only after daily consideration, you're then able to decide which direction to take...

Enchanted_Dream218 said:

I don't think there's nothing wrong with this kind of relationship. Everyone is looking for something different and we shouldn't judge by what people like or what they are into. It's about respect and common sense. Just because a woman is leading the relationship, doesn't mean she's looking down on her husband or her boyfriend. If anything, she most likely respects him for it or it's just something he loves. To admire a woman and look up to her.

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It's nice to have a romantic outlook... As it should be for us all!

serve4her said:

Glad you found the idea of the apron entertaining. My wife and I met later in life and don't have children which opened up quite a few possibilities not really available for many.

I know the jalapeno and ruined orgasm combo caught my attention. Pretty sure the next batch of guacamole I make will leave me wondering.

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LOL!

How to sub with a Vanilla Lover | A guide to shades of FLR | All Together Now

I realise my content isn’t “mind blowing” enough to get noticed in a big way. But you see, that’s the point. We all travel from one location to another. People generally rave about said locations and how sexy they are, but not so much the journey. Although, if you take away the journey, and you’d never get anywhere.

The idiosyncrasies of a relationship are ignored long term, even though they underpin everything, more than sex/instant gratification alone. The degradation of idiosyncrasies is a very natural phenomenon…

I cannot impress enough, how bleak my relationship felt last year. As I tended to my home chores, I knew I still loved my Vanilla Lover, and fundamentally, I knew she was a great Woman.

As I stared into the plug hole of my kitchen sink (after finishing the washing up), I looked into the dark and foreboding abyss… I then could see, we were veering very close to a divorce. I wondered what I did wrong. Yes me! Not my Vanilla Lover. Back then when I was 100% honest with myself, I realised I was to blame. It was with that accountability, we eventually chatted about my submissiveness, and that started to turn the tide.

But that alone wasn’t enough. She hated the fact I was kinky! In some ways, I was no better off! So I dived deeply into research… Online, talking to all my friends and family. Delving through my past… Lots of trial and error… Until eventually I started to implement the philosophies and examples in this guide (having formed in my crazy mind)… Almost a year later, my Vanilla Lover’s confidence is soaring, she really cares for me (like she used to), cares for herself, she’s smiling, and laughing. A polar opposite from last year. She is transforming, blossoming, starting to shine. All because I realised how much of a crappy husband I was… The only thing that distinguished me from the norm though… I was willing to jump wholeheartedly so outside my submissive comfort zone… It was like I was in the North Pole, naked and freezing my socks off! All this, so I can make my Vanilla Lover happy. It was that important to me…

I need to explain why I was feeling so cold… I now appreciate the mental overhead required for Ladies/Dommes to facilitate their subs. Granted, it perhaps feels less heavy on the mind when love is in the air, but it’s there nonetheless. I’m not suggesting for one second I’m doing the same, as I feel I’m initiating instead. I’ve done this for many years, however before it was always with an ulterior motive in mind, a means to an end. Now, I’m initiating unconditionally… At first I found it counter intuitive, it felt clunky for me and my sub tendencies (or what I believed they should be at the time). But as I saw her starting to shine, I was beginning to appreciate the changes in me… Why am I not feeling so cold now? The only difference is I’m thoroughly enjoying the initiations (or the journeys), or as I refer to in the guide, the encounters. Anything after that should it happen, is always her prerogative…

So what if she’s Vanilla? If you support her (and this guide will help), your Vanilla Lover will surprise you. There was a moment (one of several thus far) where I could hear a pin drop from a thousand miles away, as I stared at her. She was talking about an issue at her work, and how she resolved it. Her legs were crossed, sat (clothed) on the edge of the bathtub. As I looked at her at this exact moment, she was a Lady! I was compelled, and knelt down to kiss her feet in appreciation. She was absolutely fine with that. I swear, it appeared as though she felt she deserved it. Then the moment disappeared…

My point… It’s my belief if I had not followed the philosophies detailed in this guide, I would’ve missed that moment (and others) entirely. Strictly speaking I’m not a typical sub. I cannot be, otherwise all would be for nought. This is what you have to realise too.

The other day, just as we woke up, I turned to speak to her, “You’re married to a Blueberry Muffin” I told her. She look quizzically at me, and I smiled… “The blueberries are my ‘K’s (she doesn’t like the word ‘Kink’), there’s quite a lot of them, and the plain parts are the rest of me. The Blueberry Muffin is all of me, the man you fell in love with. I haven’t changed, I’m just more self aware…”.

She does accept me as a whole now, and its that acceptance which is the platform for her happiness, and willingness to eventually shine.

I really hope if you’ve read my guide, you’re able to implement the philosophies and examples, and see it work for yourself. I’d absolutely love to hear from you if that's the case (or if you’re working on it, and just need to chat through an aspect or two, PM me that’s OK). I know its not going to help everyone, but if you’re not willing to fight for this (fundamentally sound) relationship, how will you fare the second time, third time, and so on?

By all means, if my examples are simply not you, that’s OK. Create your own (you know your Vanilla Lover best), still using the philosophies in this guide I’ve provided. It's meant as a foundation from which you will eventually expand from. Remember to have fun, be happy, and never give up.

Good luck, and I sincerely wish you a shiny life with your Vanilla Lover and your brand new shades of FLR eventually.

Kind regards,
JustPlatonic

P. S. I’m aware I can rub people up the wrong way… I always want to help where I can (I find it rewarding), and if I see I can add value, I jump in. It comes from my heart, and as such, my passion to help can be a little over-zealous sometimes. So I’d like to apologize to said person, and I hope they’re able to forgive me.

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eroticspank said:

Yes great point.

My initial thought is there is nothing out there and I wish there was...!

Actually, I feel the first problem is there are so many different variations and ideas of a FLR and its good merits you rarely see any thing out there in book form because it is about appealing to a larger group of people.

FLRs and representing them has been taken over by guy's fantasies and the porn industry so you rarely see female oriented videos and stories of FLRs.

I have seen some very good FLRs represented in books and in movies BUT they are not presented as FLRs---kind of in disguise. I read a book years ago that was mostly erotic fiction that had a very nice FLR dynamic that went into the gentle dominance you mention above. It was amazing how this woman was able to communicate her desires to her new partner learning to be her sub and mate. Example: If she liked impact play, she explained it to him, her feelings around it, and why he should do it for her. I certainly can't explain it like she did, but the way she did it and the words she used were amazing and seemed from deep inside her, from her heart. (The book was written by a woman---surprise!) I don't remember the name of the book.

ES

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Hey eroticspank... If you ever remember the details of that book, please let me know... Thanks.

eroticspank said:

I feel like a lot of men go about it the wrong way. They probably already have in their mind what they think a FLR is, based on stories, Porn, etc. Then they seek it out in areas probably not fit to find a great partner, Strip clubs, etc, or they seek Kink before personality. Meeting a woman who is interested in a FLR usually involves meeting a woman with a certain type of personality. Seek the personality first, then find chemistry, and later talk on thoughts of FLRs. And finally it is about being open, humble, and vulnerable to the woman. Many of us guys, RUN at the first slight of a comment or criticism of us, vs thinking about her comments and maybe realizing she is correct.

ES

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Very wise, and informed...

lady_jennaxx said:

Some aren't as concerned with terminology. Just because there hasn't been mutual discussion or acknowledgement doesn't mean the dynamic is less valid. It's whatever works in their circumstance.

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Agreed... Nicely put, Lady Jenna!

Justplatonic said:

Hey eroticspank... If you ever remember the details of that book, please let me know... Thanks.

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I have been looking for years with no luck!!! If I do find it again I will let you and everyone know.

ES