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Old 02-09-2018, 06:22 AM   #126
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Originally Posted by Hypoxia View Post
Wisconsin remains a high tax-load state. Gov Walker owns that.
After eight years, there is some truth to that. Although remember, he turned the >$3billion deficit he inherited from his predecessor into a surplus for every budget since he came to office. Fortunately, the odds are he will win another four years to continue to cut our taxes.

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Originally Posted by Hypoxia View Post
Foxconn has played loose with state money before. Y'all beware.
So I've heard. Fortunately, the contract between the state and Foxconn includes provisions that the development must reach certain benchmarks before the company gets any of the tax breaks. It also includes a half-billion dollar liquidated damages provision if Foxconn backs out. Further, the fact that Foxconn is buying an entire city block in Milwaukee for its American HQ suggests it plans to stay here.

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How much in subsidies will each Foxconn job cost really taxpayers?
In effect, less than nothing. First, remember that Foxconn would not even be coming except for the favorable tax treatment it's receiving. Thus, the fact that it is paying reduced taxes (the true nature of the "subsidies") still means Wisconsin is receiving increased revenues versus what would have happened had it not offered these incentives. Second, the benchmarks mentioned above ensure that the state will have gained more in revenues from overall economic activity (e.g., building the plant itself is expected to create more than 10,000 construction jobs) than it "looses" in Foxconn tax subsidies by the time those subsidies go into effect.

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Which Wisconsin officials are personally profiting from the deal?
Always an important question. I suppose it depends on what you mean by "profiting." As for "profiting" politically, the only Democrats in the legislature to vote in favor of the Foxconn development are those from districts in SE Wisconsin. They knew its creation of thousands of jobs in the area would be popular with their voters. (Conversely, many analysts think the recent Republican loss in NW Wisconsin was backlash against Foxconn, because it primarily benefits the other end of the state.) It would also be interesting to know how much Foxconn has and will contributed to various campaigns in this election cycle.

If by "personally profiting" you mean actual graft, this isn't Illinois. Wisconsin is quite clean in that area. Money tends to flow into campaign coffers, not offshore bank accounts.

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Originally Posted by Boxlicker101 View Post
Maybe you want to close the thread, but I don't believe everybody does.

Did you look at the link you posted? The median Household income for Racine County is $56,359. For many of the households, that consists of two paychecks. The median Per Capita income is $28,436. That means the new jobs will pay almost twice as much as the current jobs in the county.
dan_c00000 "closed" the thread because he knew I had crushed him factually and rhetorically, and he is such an insecure bigot that he cannot accept defeat at the hands of a woman. But don'y worry. He still reads all my threads. He can't help himself.

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Old 02-09-2018, 11:21 AM   #127
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Originally Posted by Boxlicker101 View Post
The median Per Capita income is $28,436.
I closed this thread because I was ruining everyone. And now I'm going to destroy the racist box and leave his asshole absolutely gaping.

Per capita income means per person. That includes the unemployed as well as the retired and children. "Per Capita Income (PCI) is the first measure we come to that is person-based. It is simply the total aggregate income for the area divided by the total population."

I used the correct statistic because it includes both single earner and multi-earner households.

You just got fucking ruined. Wow, sad. Alright this thread is officially closed now.

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Old 02-09-2018, 06:57 PM   #128
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You just got fucking ruined. Wow, sad. Alright this thread is officially closed now.
You're not my boss.
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Old 02-09-2018, 08:14 PM   #129
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Originally Posted by dan_c00000 View Post
I closed this thread because I was ruining everyone. And now I'm going to destroy the racist box and leave his asshole absolutely gaping.

Per capita income means per person. That includes the unemployed as well as the retired and children. "Per Capita Income (PCI) is the first measure we come to that is person-based. It is simply the total aggregate income for the area divided by the total population."

I used the correct statistic because it includes both single earner and multi-earner households.

You just got fucking ruined. Wow, sad. Alright this thread is officially closed now.
I am quite familiar with the usual meaning of "per capita." However, I am not at all sure that, in this usage, it means the average of everybody, even including persons who are incarcerated and newborn babies. It may just refer to the individuals who actually have income, such as fees for services rendered or wages or salaries.

Either way, my point remains. Each person working at Foxconn will receive pay only slightly less than the average household income in Racine County, even including those households with two or three or more breadwinners. The Foxconn employees may or may not be the most highly paid persons in the county, but their incomes should be well above average.

And neither you nor anybody else except Laurel has the authority to close a thread.
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Old 02-09-2018, 08:39 PM   #130
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Originally Posted by Boxlicker101 View Post
I am quite familiar with the usual meaning of "per capita." However, I am not at all sure that, in this usage, it means the average of everybody, even including persons who are incarcerated and newborn babies.
Back in the day, the term excluded Indians and entire slaves. To anti-choice scum, embryos are included, known or not. Some folks count corporations and/or their invisible friends as 'persons' but suspects charged with certain crimes aren't. Some seek personhood for dolphins and Coast Redwoods.

If corporations are persons, Delaware needs 150 electoral votes.

"Per capita" means every head, every person, period. "Per capita" numbers for my county include the 1/6th in the state prison here even though they don't vote or pay property taxes. Choose your personhood wisely.
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Old 02-09-2018, 09:11 PM   #131
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Originally Posted by dan_c00000 View Post
I closed this thread

I was ruining everyone

I'm going to destroy

You just got fucking ruined

this thread is officially closed....
Snowflake !!!!!
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Old 02-09-2018, 10:47 PM   #132
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first question: is scott walker still alive?

second question: does anyone give a shit?
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Old 02-10-2018, 08:28 AM   #133
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How many of the jobs will go to Wisconsin (vs. Illinois) residents?
Because of it's really high cost-of living, Cook County/City of Chicago tends to have people outside the county or even state commuting to work inside the county and city, rather than the reverse.
I honestly do not see too many people from the NS suburbs commuting to work that far for too long before the travel time gets to be too much, and they end up moving closer to their job. Granted, Lake isn't Cook, but it still has higher than normal taxes and is still considered low simply be being compared to Cook/Chicago. Metra's rates just went up, too, so the Kenosha line isn't that much of a plus, either.
So I don't think that's really a factor in this debate.

I'm kind of surprised that FoxConn didn't try for the NWI corridor instead, but I mean, c'mon, Gary? It's its own worst enemy, and it ends up costing Indiana a -lot- of money in new business.

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Old 02-10-2018, 09:22 AM   #134
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wistfulwench View Post
How many of the jobs will go to Wisconsin (vs. Illinois) residents?
Because of it's really high cost-of living, Cook County/City of Chicago tends to have people outside the county or even state commuting to work inside the county and city, rather than the reverse.
I honestly do not see too many people from the NS suburbs commuting to work that far for too long before the travel time gets to be too much, and they end up moving closer to their job. Granted, Lake isn't Cook, but it still has higher than normal taxes and is still considered low simply be being compared to Cook/Chicago. Metra's rates just went up, too, so the Kenosha line isn't that much of a plus, either.
So I don't think that's really a factor in this debate.

I'm kind of surprised that FoxConn didn't try for the NWI corridor instead, but I mean, c'mon, Gary? It's its own worst enemy, and it ends up costing Indiana a -lot- of money in new business.
wistfulwench: From the state's point of view, I don't think it matters if the jobs go to Illinois residents. The state will still collect income tax on the money earned in Wisconsin.

Chivas2infinity: Indiana did bid on the Foxconn plant, as I recall. Some states, Michigan and Ohio come to mind, actually offered much higher incentives.

I suspect Foxconn was ultimately convinced to settle not just its plant, but also its North American offices, in Wisconsin because of the state's new "Open for Business" philiosophy.

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Old 02-10-2018, 09:56 AM   #135
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Indiana did bid on the Foxconn plant, as I recall. Some states, Michigan and Ohio come to mind, actually offered much higher incentives.

I suspect Foxconn was ultimately convinced to settle not just its plant, but also its North American offices, in Wisconsin because of the state's new "
Dude, if Gary weren't so effing Gary, it would be first choice not only for manufacturing, but logistics businesses. America's Crossroads. Immediate access to water, rail, road, and air.
But Gary gotta Gary.

You know it's bad when even CPD says: "Could be worse. Could be Gary!"

edit: Is that the sign on 39/51N headed into Beloit?

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Old 02-10-2018, 02:03 PM   #136
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Is that the sign on 39/51N headed into Beloit?
Maybe. I was thinking it was I-94 heading north out of Illinois and into Southeastern Wisconsin where, on its way to where the Foxconn plant is being built, it passes TWO Amazon distribution warehouses, along with a bunch of other businesses mostly serving the Chicago area, built in Wisconsin because Wisconsin's business climate is so much better than the tax hell to the south.
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Old 02-10-2018, 04:27 PM   #137
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Maybe. I was thinking it was I-94 heading north out of Illinois and into Southeastern Wisconsin where, on its way to where the Foxconn plant is being built, it passes TWO Amazon distribution warehouses, along with a bunch of other businesses mostly serving the Chicago area, built in Wisconsin because Wisconsin's business climate is so much better than the tax hell to the south.
Kohl's closed the DC in its WI hometown and moved south to Ottawa to be right on 80, but farrrrrrrrrr enough away from the City and SW burbs. It's only 15 minutes from 39/51 which is a route to StL and other southern destinations. Illinois can attract new DCs along 80 and 88, but they can never be too far from a southbound route, which make cities like DeKalb, Rochelle, LaSalle, Peru, Oglesby, Ottawa, Princeton, etc ideal, and they better come with too good to be true sweetheart deals from the state and local gov'ts. Those cities aren't too from from the intermodal megalopolis of Chicago, but they are far enough away from Crook, -oops, I mean Cook County's tax and crime nightmare.
Gary, OTOH, is closer than any of the cities mentioned, and is located in a state with even lower taxes than WI, but jfc, it's -Gary-, and it says a lot that perfect location in terms of both geography and state taxes is not enough to draw all them DCs. LOL
It's truly sad that the entire area of the NWI corridor and SW suburbs have everything going for them in terms of geography to attract both manufacturing and logistics business developmenti, but their man-made problems are so effing huge that they repel more than they attract.
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Old 02-11-2018, 06:53 AM   #138
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It's truly sad that the entire area of the NWI corridor and SW suburbs have everything going for them in terms of geography to attract both manufacturing and logistics business developmenti, but their man-made problems are so effing huge that they repel more than they attract.
Illinois' greatest "man-made problem" is high taxes and other policies unfriendly to business. Illinois keeps raising taxes, but keeps racking up higher deficits. Meanwhile, Wisconsin has lowered taxes and runs surpluses, because lower taxes spur economic activity and that leads to increased revenue.
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Old 02-11-2018, 07:35 AM   #139
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Illinois' greatest "man-made problem" is high taxes and other policies unfriendly to business. Illinois keeps raising taxes, but keeps racking up higher deficits. Meanwhile, Wisconsin has lowered taxes and runs surpluses, because lower taxes spur economic activity and that leads to increased revenue.
The NWI corridor has lower taxes than WI. Then again, WI doesn't have Gary.
You don't have to try to "educate" me about my state's problem, its taxes. I'm not stupid, and I've already mentioned them.
Dude.
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Old 02-16-2018, 10:09 PM   #140
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And So it Begins....


"International Mold and Production LLC (IMAP), a 3-D printing and injection molding company based in Illinois, will relocate its operations to Kenosha primarily because of Foxconn Technology Group."


P. Leary, Illinois molding company moving operations to Kenosha, hoping to supply Foxconn, Milwaukee Business Journal (Feb. 16, 2018).
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Old 02-17-2018, 12:17 AM   #141
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To put the above in context, which makes it all the more impressive:
Wisconsin enjoyed increases in private-sector jobs across both months, and set new records for the number of private-sector jobs in the state in September and October.

October brought 9,500 private sector jobs to the state, according to preliminary estimates from the Bureau of Labor Statistics....

Surrounding states didn't fare as well in October. Illinois gained 5,200 private-sector jobs, but Iowa lost 1,100, Michigan lost 500 and Minnesota lost 5,000.
L. Speckhard Pasque, Private-sector jobs in Wisconsin hit record high for second month in a row, October preliminary estimates show, Capital Times (Nov. 24, 2017). This map summarizes that data:





Illinois was the only other of these states to see job growth and, given the states' relative populations, Illinois's 5,200 new jobs pale in comparison with Wisconsin's 9,500 new jobs.

In short, while the economy is improving across the country generally, Wisconsin's approach to creating a good economy, lowering taxes, balancing budgets and making regulation reasonable, is demonstrably superior, thanks to Gov. Walker and the Badger Republicans.
I wonder why Indiana and Ohio don't appear on that map. ETA: IN grew steadily too, even more than IL but not as much as WI. Ohio lost jobs.
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Old 03-21-2018, 06:10 AM   #142
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I just hope Foxconn keeps it's word. They're notorious for backing out of deals, and not just in Pennsylvania. Internationally. The company is a shitshow, but if they bring jobs to the US, then I'm all for it.
"Shitshow" or not, the development is going forward, despite all the people on this thread who said it was a Trump/Walker "gimmick" that would never actually happen.
The project will require about 10,234 construction workers annually for four years, spurring new job-training activity by the local building industry. That will include new initiatives to train unemployed Racine County workers to enter the building trades.
S. Ryan, Gilbane, M+W Group to lead Foxconn's $10 billion Mount Pleasant construction project, Milwaukee Business Journal (Mar. 20, 2018).

I wonder what all the nay-sayers will now find to criticize in the thousands of good paying jobs the Foxconn development will bring to the underemployed people of SE Wisconsin, many of them people of color.

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Old 03-22-2018, 07:11 PM   #143
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Wisconsin governor ordered to hold special elections after Democratic outcry


Oh GOSH!

Scott Walker is just so certain the great big Republican Tax Cuts are SO popular in WI he's being forced to hold special elections, for fear of the losing the seats to Dems!

Quote:
Wisconsin Governor Scott Walker must hold special elections in two state districts, a judge ruled on Thursday, after Democrats said he was putting off the votes over fears of losing the formerly Republican-held seats.

The ruling coincides with a political climate favoring Democrats because President Donald Trump, a Republican, is historically unpopular in opinion polls eight months before midterm elections across the United States.

Walker had argued he was not obliged to hold elections for the seats left vacant since December, but Dane County Circuit Judge Josann Reynolds said the Republican governor had misinterpreted state law and must hold votes promptly, court documents showed.

Walker's office said in an emailed statement that it was working with the Department of Justice to determine the next steps in the case.

Democrats believe they have a shot at the two Wisconsin seats after Democrat Patty Schachtner in January won a special election in the state for a Senate seat that had long been in Republican hands.

Under Reynold's ruling, Walker must call the two special elections by next week with votes likely to take place in early June.

The two seats, one in the Wisconsin State Assembly and one in the Wisconsin Senate, became vacant when the Republican incumbents took jobs in Walkerís administration.

A Democratic group headed by former U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder sued Walker demanding he hold special elections on grounds citizens in the districts were being denied legislative representation while the seats were left empty.

"This is an important victory for the impacted citizens of Wisconsin who have gone without representation because of Governor Walkerís refusal to call special elections," Holder said in a statement on Thursday.
But but Foxconn! Stock portfolios and 401ks! Why'd you have to try and break the law, Scotty? All you had to do was hire Dawnie to spread the word!

Good Going, the
National Democratic Redistricting Committee
formed by Eric Holder and President Obama, scores a big victory against Scott Walker

Don't forget PA-18. Rick Saccone just conceded to Conor Lamb in deep deep red!

Tax Cuts = BIG FAILURE with the "forgotten man"
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Old 03-23-2018, 01:30 AM   #144
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Wisconsin governor ordered to hold special elections after Democratic outcry


Oh GOSH!

Scott Walker is just so certain the great big Republican Tax Cuts are SO popular in WI he's being forced to hold special elections, for fear of the losing the seats to Dems!



But but Foxconn! Stock portfolios and 401ks! Why'd you have to try and break the law, Scotty? All you had to do was hire Dawnie to spread the word!

Good Going, the
National Democratic Redistricting Committee
formed by Eric Holder and President Obama, scores a big victory against Scott Walker

Don't forget PA-18. Rick Saccone just conceded to Conor Lamb in deep deep red!

Tax Cuts = BIG FAILURE with the "forgotten man"
The seats in question are in Door County and Columbia County. Both places are traditionally GOP and will probably remain so following the election that may or may not be held. The GOP has majorities in both houses of the legislature and will continue to have them regardless how the elections turn out. Since both seats will be voted on in November and the legislature will be in recess until then, it seems like a waste of time and money to hold special elections this spring or summer.
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Old 03-23-2018, 05:03 AM   #145
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The seats in question are in Door County and Columbia County. Both places are traditionally GOP and will probably remain so following the election that may or may not be held. The GOP has majorities in both houses of the legislature and will continue to have them regardless how the elections turn out. Since both seats will be voted on in November and the legislature will be in recess until then, it seems like a waste of time and money to hold special elections this spring or summer.
If the seats are empty till winter, residents and businesses in those districts lose representation and access. I dunno how it goes out there in cheezehead land, but everywhere I've lived, legislators constantly interact with constituents. Who ya gonna call if there's nobody there? Are Door and Columbia county-ites undeserving of access? Should they just shut up?
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Old 03-23-2018, 05:09 AM   #146
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Obviously you haven't been paying attention.

All seats are in play, everywhere. Deep red is in deep shit.

When the seats are up again in November, who will have the advantage? The ones who already won in the special election. Of course if you don't run a special election, you have an incumbent R with the advantage.

Walker is trying hard to make sure Dems don't get a leg in, but the courts said Uh, no.

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The seats in question are in Door County and Columbia County. Both places are traditionally GOP and will probably remain so following the election that may or may not be held. The GOP has majorities in both houses of the legislature and will continue to have them regardless how the elections turn out. Since both seats will be voted on in November and the legislature will be in recess until then, it seems like a waste of time and money to hold special elections this spring or summer.
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Old 03-23-2018, 11:12 AM   #147
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Obviously you haven't been paying attention.

All seats are in play, everywhere. Deep red is in deep shit.

When the seats are up again in November, who will have the advantage? The ones who already won in the special election. Of course if you don't run a special election, you have an incumbent R with the advantage.

Walker is trying hard to make sure Dems don't get a leg in, but the courts said Uh, no.
I think you're the one who isn't paying attention. The seats in question are currently vacant. There is no incumbent to have an advantage.
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Old 03-23-2018, 11:49 AM   #148
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Oh, my mistake.


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I think you're the one who isn't paying attention. The seats in question are currently vacant. There is no incumbent to have an advantage.
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Old 03-23-2018, 08:07 PM   #149
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The seats in question are currently vacant. There is no incumbent to have an advantage.
So nobody provides constituent service in those districts. Will taxpayers there get refunds of the lawmakers' and staff salaries? Is Gov Walker defrauding the citizens by refusing to provide access they've paid for?
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Old 03-24-2018, 06:01 AM   #150
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When I took Economics in college, they taught that unemployment could never fall below 5%; now, under Walker...
Wisconsinís estimated unemployment rate dipped below 3.0% in February for the first time to a record low of 2.9%, while the state also set a record for the total number of people employed.
J. Schmid,Wisconsin's unemployment rate falls to lowest level ever: 2.9% Milwaukee Journal Sentinel (Mar. 22, 2018).

As for the politics of it, rather than worrying about a few special elections, remember...
"The economy, stupid."
James Carville (1992).
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