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Old 12-05-2017, 10:32 PM   #51
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However, I think that most writers here deliver the sought goods to some number of readers regardless of how "good" their writing is. I'm happy to leave those writers and readers to indulge their interests.
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Old 12-06-2017, 12:00 AM   #52
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Originally Posted by Exescort View Post
However, the crutch of the question remains unanswered.
At the risk of outing myself as a language Nazi, did you mean crux? Or is 'the crutch of the question' something which I should be adding to my communication repertoire?
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Old 12-06-2017, 12:12 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by SamScribble View Post
At the risk of outing myself, did you mean crux? Or is 'the crutch of the question' something which I should be adding to my communication repertoire?
Crotch of the question. Fixed that for you.

You can definitely say that in polite society. For sure.
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Old 12-06-2017, 12:14 AM   #54
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My Sister The House Hold Slut

Where would I go and to whom, other then author, do I go to find out if and when a story is going to be continued or is at end. If at end and again not author, where would you go to get support for the continuing of the story. I love the story "My Sister The House Hold Slut" by TxRad but there's nothing more of the story when there should be and when there is so much to continue. I love the story and the author hasn't been on here for over I believe 100 days, and I just had gotten so involved in it, it made my day. Please, anyone tell me what I can do to have it brought back if it was not and continued soon, its an amazing story and you should check it out yourself. Thank you.
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Old 12-06-2017, 12:15 AM   #55
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Originally Posted by Exescort View Post
Personally I can’t stand Picasso’s overpriced, overrated scribbles, buy you wanna pay ten million, who am I to argue.
As for subjective preference that’s a different question altogether?
I’d never read anything from categories that I’ve no interest in, therefore I’d never score or comment. So that’s a neutral cop out answer you’ve given, is it not, Damoiselle?
However should you be French, then anything you say is totally correct, can I fetch you some tea? Here, take my chair, would you like some cake? 😍
No, I don't agree that it is, Exescort. I don't really understand your accusation of it being a "cop out" well enough to argue it, but I can promise that my answer couldn't qualify as "neutral," by any definition. I have fairly strong feelings about this topic. When you rate another person's work as subpar, that rating effects that person as an individual.

For example, I actually said that I don't enjoy Picasso's artwork before you did (rendering your remark about my paying ten million dollars for one of his pieces a little odd), but I also pointed out that my lack of enthusiasm for his work doesn't nullify his accomplishments and acclaim--and shouldn't, in my opinion. As someone who has experienced how much power feedback can have in a creative pursuit, I use what power I have to provide negative feedback very sparingly.
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Old 12-06-2017, 12:19 AM   #56
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Originally Posted by Exescort View Post
Wow, I’m delighted that, people’s I view to be well educated and informed (all above posters) thanks for your opinions, they’re valued and appreciated.
However, the crutch of the question remains unanswered.
Can you give a five if the content touches your heart yet the technique is lacking, thoughts?
Every star under the Lit rating system is indicative of a certain feeling. Hover over them and you'll see the intended meaning pop up just above:

1 - I Hated It!
2 - I Didn't Like It Much.
3 - Liked It - Keep On Writing.
4 - Really Liked It - Good Read!
5 - Loved It - One Of The Best!!

Your opinion of a story is entirely your own. If you're a stickler for technical perfection, then your idea of a story rife with spelling and grammar errors will likely be different from someone who thinks, "Well, I knew what they meant, so it's not a big deal."

The only person you need justify your score to is yourself. Everyone else is probably going to disagree, either with your rating itself, or for your reason for giving it.
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Old 12-06-2017, 12:29 AM   #57
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Originally Posted by Exploringprey21 View Post
Where would I go and to whom, other then author, do I go to find out if and when a story is going to be continued or is at end. If at end and again not author, where would you go to get support for the continuing of the story. I love the story "My Sister The House Hold Slut" by TxRad but there's nothing more of the story when there should be and when there is so much to continue. I love the story and the author hasn't been on here for over I believe 100 days, and I just had gotten so involved in it, it made my day. Please, anyone tell me what I can do to have it brought back if it was not and continued soon, its an amazing story and you should check it out yourself. Thank you.
TxRad has been on the forum several times a day for just about forever, so just hold tight. He'll probably respond to this by the morning.
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Old 12-06-2017, 12:33 AM   #58
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Originally Posted by jezzaz View Post
Crotch of the question. Fixed that for you.

You can definitely say that in polite society. For sure.
Gee ... thanks.
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Old 12-06-2017, 12:34 AM   #59
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Originally Posted by Damoiselle View Post
For example, I actually said that I don't enjoy Picasso's artwork before you did (rendering your remark about my paying ten million dollars for one of his pieces a little odd), but I also pointed out that my lack of enthusiasm for his work doesn't nullify his accomplishments and acclaim--and shouldn't, in my opinion.
I think he meant to use the word "but", not "Buy". The sentence and intention makes a lot more sense there.

So, subjective analysis of worth is a hard thing to agree on. I think Planet of the Apes movies are dumb. I think the story is retarded and stupid, and it's a ridiculous premise that doesn't interest me, and I don't understand those that do like it.

Now, objectively, is the movie any good?

How can you possibly tell? There are somewhat objective measurements - is the editing decent, is the cinematography good, are the sound FX ok? Does the CGI look real? All of these are things that can be rated in an objective way, ie everyone agrees to a common standard.

But that doesn't mean the movie is in anyway good. It just means it's competent. And that's an entirely different measurement.

Most of us can generally agree an objective judgement of when something is bad; no one is going to be saying Ace Ventura 3 - Pet Detective Jr is a good movie. But as a whole, we can't often agree when something is good because it speaks to a very specific part of us.

Subjective measurement, like art, is really about what you can convince someone else something is worth. A Picasso isn't worth a million bucks. The materials, and the execution isn't even remotely worth that. A Tesla PS100D isn't worth $120k either. The materials that go into it aren't close to that value, nor is it worth it even when you lump all the research and development costs that go into making it, given the numbers sold.

But they are if you are persuaded they are. If there are enough people who agree that this Thing is worth X. Picassos are worth what they are because there are enough people who agree on it's value. It's not intrinsically worth what is asked for it; it's a commonality of perception we all agree on.

It's the same with stories. Dan Brown, for example, is one of the shittiest writers out there. His dialog is trite, his plotting laughable, and he can't even get time to pass correctly in his stories. With the exception of location (who doesn't like tax deductible vacation... sorry, research trips?), they are badly researched, and just terrible. By every objective measurement, he sucks donkey dicks.

But, the common perception is that he's some sort of genius, because the one thing the guy really does have is initial premise. His conception for the situation the story happens in is first rate. So the common thinking is "He's great", and his sales reflect that.

Whether something is generally deemed 'good' or not has zero to do with the quality of construction, the ability of the creator, and everything to do with market conditions. That said, if you keep putting out something that is well constructed and is created by someone with experience and ability, at some point, you will hit that situation where your stuff is considered 'good' by the majority.
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Old 12-06-2017, 12:46 AM   #60
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Originally Posted by Exploringprey21 View Post
Where would I go and to whom, other then author, do I go to find out if and when a story is going to be continued or is at end. If at end and again not author, where would you go to get support for the continuing of the story. I love the story "My Sister The House Hold Slut" by TxRad but there's nothing more of the story when there should be and when there is so much to continue. I love the story and the author hasn't been on here for over I believe 100 days, and I just had gotten so involved in it, it made my day. Please, anyone tell me what I can do to have it brought back if it was not and continued soon, its an amazing story and you should check it out yourself. Thank you.
TxRad is around here regularly.

But if he doesn't want to continue the story, there's nothing anyone can do to make him write more. Once a writer is done with something, that's it, unless that writer chooses to come back and write some more.
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Old 12-06-2017, 12:49 AM   #61
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On the last chapter of my series, I put " -Fini-" at the bottom. When I've posted a series, I've written it all before I start posting it. I've decided it's done.
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Old 12-06-2017, 02:15 AM   #62
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Originally Posted by EquinoxRising View Post
I'm curious, are your postings examples of your writing or do you utilize an editor?
Everything I post is my own original work.
I feel an editor would, whilst correcting technical issues change the personality of my work.
Therefore I'd rather receive a 1 and learn than a corrupted 5
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Old 12-06-2017, 02:22 AM   #63
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No, I don't agree that it is, Exescort. I don't really understand your accusation of it being a "cop out" well enough to argue it, but I can promise that my answer couldn't qualify as "neutral," by any definition. I have fairly strong feelings about this topic. When you rate another person's work as subpar, that rating effects that person as an individual.

For example, I actually said that I don't enjoy Picasso's artwork before you did (rendering your remark about my paying ten million dollars for one of his pieces a little odd), but I also pointed out that my lack of enthusiasm for his work doesn't nullify his accomplishments and acclaim--and shouldn't, in my opinion. As someone who has experienced how much power feedback can have in a creative pursuit, I use what power I have to provide negative feedback very sparingly.
I've never given negative feedback as I don't feel qualified to do so.
I'd already stated that I've actually only ever scored 5 as I only score on works that touch me personally.
I was interested in the reasoning behind low scoring and nasty comments that are left on stories. That's all.
Please don't be offended by my poor attempt at being humorous.
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Old 12-06-2017, 02:22 AM   #64
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Everything I post is my own original work.
I feel an editor would, whilst correcting technical issues change the personality of my work.
Therefore I'd rather receive a 1 and learn than a corrupted 5
I think what ER is getting at is that your posts have enough technical issues that anyone reading those might not want to take the effort to read your stories. (I wouldn't.) This goes to the question you asked about rating something that could be a good story but that had a lot of technical problems. I think ER was noting that your posts have a lot of technical problems that readers of your posts will assume are also in your story writing.

I'll note also, to your last post, that a good editor would not be changing "the personality of" your "work" (which is known as "your voice") but it's also true that there aren't many trained editors hanging out their shingles here at Literotica. The danger you note crops up here on the forum a lot when folks ask about specific punctuation and/or wording in their stories. Invariably what comes back is a lot of suggestions that change the voice of the original.
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Old 12-06-2017, 02:50 AM   #65
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Originally Posted by Exploringprey21 View Post
Where would I go and to whom, other then author, do I go to find out if and when a story is going to be continued or is at end. If at end and again not author, where would you go to get support for the continuing of the story. I love the story "My Sister The House Hold Slut" by TxRad but there's nothing more of the story when there should be and when there is so much to continue. I love the story and the author hasn't been on here for over I believe 100 days, and I just had gotten so involved in it, it made my day. Please, anyone tell me what I can do to have it brought back if it was not and continued soon, its an amazing story and you should check it out yourself. Thank you.
I'm glad you like my story and yes there will be more. I've been in the middle of a major mainstream project for a year now and my Lit output has slowed drastically. I have the next chapter started and do work on it occasionally. Paying work takes precedence over fun work and that is what Lit is, my relaxing time.
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Old 12-06-2017, 04:30 AM   #66
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I think what ER is getting at is that your posts have enough technical issues that anyone reading those might not want to take the effort to read your stories. (I wouldn't.) This goes to the question you asked about rating something that could be a good story but that had a lot of technical problems. I think ER was noting that your posts have a lot of technical problems that readers of your posts will assume are also in your story writing.

I'll note also, to your last post, that a good editor would not be changing "the personality of" your "work" (which is known as "your voice") but it's also true that there aren't many trained editors hanging out their shingles here at Literotica. The danger you note crops up here on the forum a lot when folks ask about specific punctuation and/or wording in their stories. Invariably what comes back is a lot of suggestions that change the voice of the original.
Thanks for the explanation sr17plt.
For me, it felt like everything I ever post ER feels the need to correct me publicly.
Thus belittling me when I’m fully aware of my faults.
When I started this thread, I thought I’d fully explained that I understood the issues with my lack of technical knowledge. I’d hoped educated people like yourself and others who’ve contributed may have been able to discuss the relevance of content against technical abilities. That has been achieved mostly, but there’s been very few contributions from people with lesser technically abilities.
In my humble opinion, when someone with knowledge, like ER feels the need to correct contributions of any shape or form then that in itself corrupts threads like this one. These corrections however small, belittle people and discourage others from giving their opinions.
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Old 12-06-2017, 05:22 AM   #67
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Thanks for the explanation sr17plt.
For me, it felt like everything I ever post ER feels the need to correct me publicly.
Thus belittling me when I’m fully aware of my faults.
When I started this thread, I thought I’d fully explained that I understood the issues with my lack of technical knowledge. I’d hoped educated people like yourself and others who’ve contributed may have been able to discuss the relevance of content against technical abilities. That has been achieved mostly, but there’s been very few contributions from people with lesser technically abilities.
In my humble opinion, when someone with knowledge, like ER feels the need to correct contributions of any shape or form then that in itself corrupts threads like this one. These corrections however small, belittle people and discourage others from giving their opinions.
When I first came to Lit and the AH, many moons ago, there was a different crowd. In some ways a much more literate crowd in general than there is today. I'm an old Texas country boy and write the way people speak. That totally pissed of the grammar Nazis in droves. My last English class of any kind was back in the mid 60s so I was kind of rusty on punctuation and spelling.

So what does that mean? It means I've learned to use a spell checker. Punctuation I've relearned somewhat. I still use commas where I shouldn't and leave them off where I should. You learn as you write and you learn from editors. Like SR said, a good editor should never change your voice.

I have an excellent mainstream editor and I have learned a ton from her but... I still make the same mistakes, just not as many. With practice comes understanding, not perfection. For fiction it is about the story, not the perfection of grammar, spelling, and punctuation.

The short of it is to write what you want and how you want. For every Nazi comment I get, I get three more wanting to know what the Nazi's problem is. Why can't they just enjoy the story.

I use an editor for mainstream. I get paid for mainstream. When I get paid for Lit stories, I'll worry about it.

Hang in there and let the criticism roll off your back. But do learn to check things twice, even posts here in the AH.
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Old 12-06-2017, 11:09 AM   #68
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Thanks for the explanation sr17plt.
For me, it felt like everything I ever post ER feels the need to correct me publicly.
Thus belittling me when I’m fully aware of my faults.
When I started this thread, I thought I’d fully explained that I understood the issues with my lack of technical knowledge. I’d hoped educated people like yourself and others who’ve contributed may have been able to discuss the relevance of content against technical abilities. That has been achieved mostly, but there’s been very few contributions from people with lesser technically abilities.
In my humble opinion, when someone with knowledge, like ER feels the need to correct contributions of any shape or form then that in itself corrupts threads like this one. These corrections however small, belittle people and discourage others from giving their opinions.
Sort of like having someone call you hypocritical when you admit you tend to score from the perspective of a reader than as a writer with (self-perceived) limited skill despite what others might have scored and commented on submissions, I would imagine.

Oh, and Tx, you only have me by a few years on that last "diagram these fifty sentences" hell.

But, in all seriousness, I would add my voice to those encouraging you to find an editor or at least beta reader. A good one will not attempt to alter your voice. And it is always up to you whether you accept their suggested corrections or not.

By the same token, while the more technical aspects of your tales of a little tail are as problematic as you indicated, the ability to weave an interesting story that makes a reader care is there. Just do you and let people's OCDness be their own issue. Pick up what's useful and let any perceived cruelty slip by the wayside and roll on.

An alternative that I, myself, am trying out is this new program from Grammarly.com since I lost my beta reader (and wife and best friend) last October. It's a pain in the ass for me since I can't just plop my whole wheelbarrow full of bricks in to check at once, but since you tend towards smaller clumps, it might be more useful for you.

At any rate, best wishes for caviar dishes. And, please, continue telling the stories you have to tell. However technically imperfect you, or anyone else, may feel they are while you do.
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Old 12-06-2017, 11:12 AM   #69
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When I first came to Lit and the AH, many moons ago, there was a different crowd. In some ways a much more literate crowd in general than there is today. I'm an old Texas country boy and write the way people speak. That totally pissed of the grammar Nazis in droves. My last English class of any kind was back in the mid 60s so I was kind of rusty on punctuation and spelling.

So what does that mean? It means I've learned to use a spell checker. Punctuation I've relearned somewhat. I still use commas where I shouldn't and leave them off where I should. You learn as you write and you learn from editors. Like SR said, a good editor should never change your voice.

I have an excellent mainstream editor and I have learned a ton from her but... I still make the same mistakes, just not as many. With practice comes understanding, not perfection. For fiction it is about the story, not the perfection of grammar, spelling, and punctuation.

The short of it is to write what you want and how you want. For every Nazi comment I get, I get three more wanting to know what the Nazi's problem is. Why can't they just enjoy the story.

I use an editor for mainstream. I get paid for mainstream. When I get paid for Lit stories, I'll worry about it.

Hang in there and let the criticism roll off your back. But do learn to check things twice, even posts here in the AH.
Thanks very much, it’s good to know I’m not alone with errors.
My main problem is probably that I get overexcited about stories. Then when I’m proofreading I fail to see blatant basic errors until it’s published.
The blame lays squarely at my feet.
Also bad comments are good for me, pushing me to learn more, but there are limits for some of us.
If I were to write in my native Glaswegian tongue? Nobody would understand a word except other Scots, so the effort is there, the finesse will hopefully come in time.
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Old 12-06-2017, 12:08 PM   #70
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Everything I post is my own original work.
I feel an editor would, whilst correcting technical issues change the personality of my work.
Therefore I'd rather receive a 1 and learn than a corrupted 5
Wow. .
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Old 12-06-2017, 12:11 PM   #71
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I think what ER is getting at is that your posts have enough technical issues that anyone reading those might not want to take the effort to read your stories. (I wouldn't.) This goes to the question you asked about rating something that could be a good story but that had a lot of technical problems. I think ER was noting that your posts have a lot of technical problems that readers of your posts will assume are also in your story writing.
Yes. I was wondering if the quality of her bulletin board posts was the same in her stories. (I have not read them, and with this many errors I do not plan to.)
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Old 12-06-2017, 02:08 PM   #72
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...anyone reading those might not want to take the effort to read your stories. (I wouldn't.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by EquinoxRising View Post
Yes. I was wondering if the quality of her bulletin board posts was the same in her stories. (I have not read them, and with this many errors I do not plan to.)
You're missing out. Exescort is very talented and despite the technical issues, her work is beautifully poetic and graphically salacious. All of her submissions are stand-alone one page stories. Quick reads. Give her a try.

I do think her objection to editors is a bit unfounded, and I'd encourage her to at least try having a story edited once before she rejects editors completely. I'd love to see her improve to the point that grammar is no longer an issue.
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Old 12-06-2017, 02:15 PM   #73
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You're missing out. Exescort is very talented and despite the technical issues, her work is beautifully poetic and graphically salacious. All of her submissions are stand-alone one page stories. Quick reads. Give her a try.

I do think her objection to editors is a bit unfounded, and I'd encourage her to at least try having a story edited once before she rejects editors completely.
Yes, I've seen your cheerleading for Exescort, which is fine with me. I'd like to see more testimonials on specific authors on the forum.

But (A) I read practically nothing on Literotica. I'm here to write, not to read (and this was asked in the Author's Hangout, not the Reader's Hangout), so it's not a big deal that I don't read a particular writer, (B) as I noted I'm a trained editor, so, in fact, it is harder from me to concentrate on a storyline when it's riddled with technical issues. I'm trained not to just read through them. So, when the choice is to read a well-presented work and one that is riddled with technical problems, there's really not much of a choice for me to make (and this was a straightforward, honest answer to the question Exescort asked), (C) I think it's quite reasonable for someone to take the quality of written posts on the forum as indicative of the quality of writing of that person's stories, and (D) Exescort directly, more than once, asked the question of whether having technical problems in the finished piece is a problem for some readers (and it's fine she asked). The honest answer is "yes." She asked a straightforward question, so she deserves a straightforward answer (without being guilted for giving it). I think I was polite enough in responding to her.
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Old 12-06-2017, 02:28 PM   #74
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I think I was polite enough in responding to her.
You certainly were and I never meant to imply otherwise. Apologies if my comment seemed at all accusatory.

Perhaps I do spend too much time cheerleading for authors I perceive to be under-appreciated. It's for selfish reasons. I'd hate to see any of my Favorites get discouraged and stop writing.
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Old 12-06-2017, 02:45 PM   #75
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Originally Posted by LoquiSordidaAdMe View Post
You certainly were and I never meant to imply otherwise. Apologies if my comment seemed at all accusatory.

Perhaps I do spend too much time cheerleading for authors I perceive to be under-appreciated. It's for selfish reasons. I'd hate to see any of my Favorites get discouraged and stop writing.
I didn't complain about your cheerleading, although it did seem to be in danger of getting a little pushy. For starters, if you knew anything about what I mostly wrote under this account name (although I do write across the board), you wouldn't assume I be interested in reading what Exescort writes in any event.
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