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Old 12-04-2017, 07:12 PM   #1
someoneyouknow
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Sessions: President can obstruct justice

“The chief law officer of the land, whose oath of office calls on him to preserve, protect and defend the Constitution, crossed the line and failed to defend the law, and, in fact, attacked the law and the rights of a fellow citizen,” Sessions said during Clinton’s trial in the Senate, two months after he was impeached by the House. “Under our Constitution, equal justice requires that he forfeit his office.”

“Of course, none of us are perfect and we often fail in our personal affairs, but when it comes to going to court, and it comes to our justice system, a great nation must insist on honesty and lawfulness,” he said. “Our country must insist upon that for every citizen.”

Thus spoke then Senator Jeff Sessions in 1999 regarding Republican's frantic efforts to impeach Bill Clinton for lying about having consensual sex with another adult not his wife.*

In other words, now that he's attorney general, Sessions will have no choice but to smack down the con artist's attorney, John Dowd, who suggested the president, any president, is above the law and not subject to any oversight. The president can fire anyone for any reason, including to prevent a criminal investigation against someone who lied to both the FBI and vice president, because the law does not apply to them, according to Dowd.

This comes on the heels of another bombshell announcement that the con artist knew Michael Flynn had lied to both the FBI and vice president Pence. In January, White House counsel Donald McGahn told Trump that based on his conversation with then-acting Attorney General Sally Yates, he believed Flynn had not told the truth in his interview with the FBI or to Pence.

Yet, when he fired Flynn in February, the con artist only said he did so because Flynn had lied to the vice president. In his latest tweet, the con artist changed his story to say he had to fire Flynn because of Flynn's lying to both the FBI and Pence.

It appears Dowd is going to find out he doesn't know what he's talking about when it comes to a president obstructing justice.

https://www.politico.com/story/2017/...clinton-278517

http://www.cnn.com/2017/12/04/politi...ice/index.html

http://www.cnn.com/2017/12/04/politi...nce/index.html

*This is compared to possible Alabama Senator Roy Moore who has had involuntary sexual relations with underage girls.
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Old 12-04-2017, 07:41 PM   #2
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Yes, Constuitionally Sessions is right

Quote:
Originally Posted by someoneyouknow View Post
“The chief law officer of the land, whose oath of office calls on him to preserve, protect and defend the Constitution, crossed the line and failed to defend the law, and, in fact, attacked the law and the rights of a fellow citizen,” Sessions said during Clinton’s trial in the Senate, two months after he was impeached by the House. “Under our Constitution, equal justice requires that he forfeit his office.”

“Of course, none of us are perfect and we often fail in our personal affairs, but when it comes to going to court, and it comes to our justice system, a great nation must insist on honesty and lawfulness,” he said. “Our country must insist upon that for every citizen.”

Thus spoke then Senator Jeff Sessions in 1999 regarding Republican's frantic efforts to impeach Bill Clinton for lying about having consensual sex with another adult not his wife.*

In other words, now that he's attorney general, Sessions will have no choice but to smack down the con artist's attorney, John Dowd, who suggested the president, any president, is above the law and not subject to any oversight. The president can fire anyone for any reason, including to prevent a criminal investigation against someone who lied to both the FBI and vice president, because the law does not apply to them, according to Dowd.

This comes on the heels of another bombshell announcement that the con artist knew Michael Flynn had lied to both the FBI and vice president Pence. In January, White House counsel Donald McGahn told Trump that based on his conversation with then-acting Attorney General Sally Yates, he believed Flynn had not told the truth in his interview with the FBI or to Pence.

Yet, when he fired Flynn in February, the con artist only said he did so because Flynn had lied to the vice president. In his latest tweet, the con artist changed his story to say he had to fire Flynn because of Flynn's lying to both the FBI and Pence.

It appears Dowd is going to find out he doesn't know what he's talking about when it comes to a president obstructing justice.

https://www.politico.com/story/2017/...clinton-278517

http://www.cnn.com/2017/12/04/politi...ice/index.html

http://www.cnn.com/2017/12/04/politi...nce/index.html

*This is compared to possible Alabama Senator Roy Moore who has had involuntary sexual relations with underage girls.
The only recourse is impeachment.
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Old 12-05-2017, 06:32 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by KUJACK View Post
The only recourse is impeachment.
"Obstruction of justice" was IIRC the first Article of Impeachment of Nixon.

No, a president cannot be tried for criminal (but not necessarily impeachable) acts committed while in office. But as with Wee Willie Clinton, POTUS *can* be forced to testify (under penalty of perjury) for crimes committed before taking office, and thus is accountable for such crimes -- such as his transition team colluding with Russian agents at his direction, and his laundering of Moscow mafiya money.

I suspect that, sworn under oath, Tromp will perjure himself constantly. But as with obstruction, nothing can be done till he's out of office, so he won't sweat it. And if he goes full Mussolini, he won't leave office while he's alive.
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Old 12-05-2017, 09:14 AM   #4
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"Obstruction of justice" was IIRC the first Article of Impeachment of Nixon.

No, a president cannot be tried for criminal (but not necessarily impeachable) acts committed while in office. But as with Wee Willie Clinton, POTUS *can* be forced to testify (under penalty of perjury) for crimes committed before taking office, and thus is accountable for such crimes -- such as his transition team colluding with Russian agents at his direction, and his laundering of Moscow mafiya money.

I suspect that, sworn under oath, Tromp will perjure himself constantly. But as with obstruction, nothing can be done till he's out of office, so he won't sweat it. And if he goes full Mussolini, he won't leave office while he's alive.
You are probably aware that Nixon was not impeached. Since the Dems had majorities in both houses of Congress, he probably would have been impeached if he hadn't resigned, but we'll never know for sure. Even if he had been impeached, I believe it unlikely that 68 senators would have voted to convict.

And, once again, I would like to point out that Clinton was impeached for committing perjury, not simply for telling a fib about his sexual activities. Personally, I think he should not have been impeached, because his specific act did not rise - or fall - to the point of being a high crime and misdemeanor, but that's all immaterial now.
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Old 12-05-2017, 09:30 AM   #5
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I've said more than once that I think Tromp's impeachment, trial, and removal is most unlikely... unless Gups decide he's totally worthless for them. I've also said that Pelosi and Schumer are smart to suppress impeachment efforts. Better to kick Gups from Congressional control at the midterms and hold Tromp impotent for the rest of his term.

Ah, but if bulletproof evidence emerges of Team Tromp being owned by Putin, who know what will happen?
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Old 12-06-2017, 03:24 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hypoxia View Post
I've said more than once that I think Tromp's impeachment, trial, and removal is most unlikely... unless Gups decide he's totally worthless for them. I've also said that Pelosi and Schumer are smart to suppress impeachment efforts. Better to kick Gups from Congressional control at the midterms and hold Tromp impotent for the rest of his term.

Ah, but if bulletproof evidence emerges of Team Tromp being owned by Putin, who know what will happen?
Given the Republicans' ability to look squarely at clear facts and deny them, probably not much.
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Old 12-07-2017, 01:08 AM   #7
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You are probably aware that Nixon was not impeached. Since the Dems had majorities in both houses of Congress, he probably would have been impeached if he hadn't resigned, but we'll never know for sure. Even if he had been impeached, I believe it unlikely that 68 senators would have voted to convict.

And, once again, I would like to point out that Clinton was impeached for committing perjury, not simply for telling a fib about his sexual activities. Personally, I think he should not have been impeached, because his specific act did not rise - or fall - to the point of being a high crime and misdemeanor, but that's all immaterial now.
Clinton was impeached by the House and acquitted from all charges following a Senate trial.

Nixon had articles of impeachment for obstruction of justice, abuse of power, and contempt of Congress all reported to the House out of Committee but resigned because he knew he was fucked and would have been impeached and found guilty in a Senate Trial. There was ZERO ambiguity about the outcome.
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Old 12-07-2017, 05:32 AM   #8
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Clinton was impeached by the House and acquitted from all charges following a Senate trial.

Nixon had articles of impeachment for obstruction of justice, abuse of power, and contempt of Congress all reported to the House out of Committee but resigned because he knew he was fucked and would have been impeached and found guilty in a Senate Trial. There was ZERO ambiguity about the outcome.
Impeached? Yes, probably. Convicted by the Senate? I doubt it, but there is no way to tell now.

Eta: This is how the Senate was divided following the 1970 elections: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United...lections,_1970

The Dems had a majority of the Senate seats, but not a 2/3 majority, which is why I say Nixon probably would not have been convicted. I believe he did the right thing by resigning, thereby reducing divisiveness, but I also believe he could have held onto the position and finished his term. As I say, though there's no way of knowing now.
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Old 12-07-2017, 10:18 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxlicker101 View Post
Impeached? Yes, probably. Convicted by the Senate? I doubt it, but there is no way to tell now.

Eta: This is how the Senate was divided following the 1970 elections: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United...lections,_1970

The Dems had a majority of the Senate seats, but not a 2/3 majority, which is why I say Nixon probably would not have been convicted.

He resigned because several GOP leaders, including Barry Goldwater, came to Nixon and told him his support was gone after the Smoking Gun tape was released. His removal from office was a formality at that point.




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The only recourse is impeachment.
Correct in the sense that while there's disagreement over whether a president can be criminally liable, there's no question that obstruction of justice qualifies as an impeachable offense.

The concern with Trump is the same as it has been all along: I don't believe the Framers envisioned a scenario where a Congress would simply choose not to exercise any oversight of the executive branch, no matter how cartoonishly corrupt.
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Old 12-07-2017, 12:53 PM   #10
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He resigned because several GOP leaders, including Barry Goldwater, came to Nixon and told him his support was gone after the Smoking Gun tape was released. His removal from office was a formality at that point.

Correct in the sense that while there's disagreement over whether a president can be criminally liable, there's no question that obstruction of justice qualifies as an impeachable offense.

The concern with Trump is the same as it has been all along: I don't believe the Framers envisioned a scenario where a Congress would simply choose not to exercise any oversight of the executive branch, no matter how cartoonishly corrupt.
"Cartoonishly corrupt" is something of a stretch. I doubt if Trump is any more corrupt than most politicians. Of course, that does give him a lot of leeway, because pols are probably the most corrupt people in the world. At least he isn't a lawyer, which would make him an even bigger crook.
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Old 12-07-2017, 02:00 PM   #11
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"Cartoonishly corrupt" is something of a stretch.
No it isn't. It spot on fingers the Republican leadership of Congress.
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Old 12-07-2017, 03:39 PM   #12
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"Cartoonishly corrupt" is something of a stretch. I doubt if Trump is any more corrupt than most politicians. Of curse, that does give him a lot of leeway, because pols are probably the most corrupt people in the world. At least he isn't a lawyer, which would make him an even bigger crook.

They're selling Trump Wine in national park gift shops. Kellyanne Conway, a federal employee, is appearing on television in front of the White House and asking people to buy Ivanka's clothing line. The Interior Secretary is trying to give federal contracts for Puerto Rico reconstruction to some mom-and-pop he knows from Montana.


The Trumps are grifters with a big megaphone.
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Old 12-07-2017, 06:15 PM   #13
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You are probably aware that Nixon was not impeached. Since the Dems had majorities in both houses of Congress, he probably would have been impeached if he hadn't resigned, but we'll never know for sure. Even if he had been impeached, I believe it unlikely that 68 senators would have voted to convict.
The Republicans knew he'd be impeached and convicted that's why the begged him to resign. The group of Congressional Republicans was lead by Barry freakin' Goldwater! There was even a list of names.

Do you ignore history because you're a fucking moron or because reality is inconvenient to your cowardly, racist pathetic life?
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Old 12-07-2017, 06:20 PM   #14
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Do you ignore history because you're a fucking moron or because reality is inconvenient to your cowardly, racist pathetic life?
.Yes.
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Old 12-07-2017, 08:05 PM   #15
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The Republicans knew he'd be impeached and convicted that's why the begged him to resign. The group of Congressional Republicans was lead by Barry freakin' Goldwater! There was even a list of names.

Do you ignore history because you're a fucking moron or because reality is inconvenient to your cowardly, racist pathetic life?
I don't question that Nixon would have been impeached, but I seriously doubt that 2/3 of the Senate would have voted to convict. Not being supported by members of his party does not necessarily mean they would have turned against him to the degree they would have voted to boot him from office. I concede they might have, but not that they would have. But this was long ago and we cannot be sure now, one way or another, nor does it matter at this late date.

Out of curiosity, from where do you get "racist?"
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Old 12-07-2017, 08:15 PM   #16
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How hardheaded can you get? Nixon wasn't one to quit under fire. He was handed a declaration of the votes confirmed against him. Convicted he couldn't have even afforded a cloth coat for Pat. Resigning saved his pension; the negotiated pardon maybe kept him out of prison.
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Old 12-08-2017, 02:25 AM   #17
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They're selling Trump Wine in national park gift shops. Kellyanne Conway, a federal employee, is appearing on television in front of the White House and asking people to buy Ivanka's clothing line. The Interior Secretary is trying to give federal contracts for Puerto Rico reconstruction to some mom-and-pop he knows from Montana.
Tromp.Com's hotel and resort business, still run by and paying POTUS, collects bookoo bucks from foreign and domestic arse-lickers seeking royal audience in a common pay-4-play gag. So much for the Constitutional foreign and domestic emoluments clauses. The overall tax 'reform' Tromp desires HUUUGELY benefits himself and his family -- as well as wealthy congresscritters, Constitutionally banned from giving themselves immediate pay raises. This is even better!
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Old 12-08-2017, 02:34 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxlicker101
"Cartoonishly corrupt" is something of a stretch.
No it isn't. It spot on fingers the Republican leadership of Congress.
One may wonder whether Gups realize that when they lose control, they'll be treated exactly the same or worse by the Dums they currently oppress and ignore.

The Bad Devil on my shoulder whispers, "Oh, the Great Right-Wing Conspiracy would never allow that. By further voter suppression, disenfranchisement, gerrymandering, and creative vote-counting, Gups will reach their goal of rendering liberal thought and power EXTINCT in USA. One-Party Rule will be mandated. Bend over, kiss your pale ass bye-bye."

The Good Angel on my other shoulder murmurs, "Oh, the balance of powers will work, democracy will work, the retards will be ousted, all will be well in the bright, glorious future. Keep your chin up."

Which should I believe?
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Old 12-08-2017, 02:39 AM   #19
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They probably are banking on the increasingly dumbed-down electorate not replacing them. The battle cry from the electorate in the last election was "throw the bums out" and they proceeded to reelect the bums.
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Old 12-08-2017, 11:34 AM   #20
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Out of curiosity, from where do you get "racist?"
You're a racist. Every word you utter or type is racist. You hate minorities and you're afraid of them. And that was before you threw in your lot with the Orange Nazi.
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