Old 09-27-2017, 01:03 PM   #1
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Creative Grammar

Do any authors here have a little fun playing around with grammar? I read a lot outside of Lit--classics and modern fiction--and I've seen a lot of interesting takes on "proper" grammar. The English language is a living language, and it seems to me that, so long as the author's points are evident and intelligible, grammar can be bent to fit their particular voice. My favorite example is using a third conjunction: "He went to the store to get some strawberries, and he discovered that they were on sale, but they were starting to grow mold." This is technically incorrect, but it captures the author's stream of consciousness better.
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Old 09-27-2017, 01:04 PM   #2
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Yes. Another name for that is "writing fiction."
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Old 09-27-2017, 01:16 PM   #3
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Depending upon whom you ask, playing with grammar was exactly what most set Shakespeare apart from his contemporaries. Just a thought.
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Old 09-27-2017, 01:22 PM   #4
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I don't eat a lot of crackers but I eat some with soup and stuff but sometimes I like the grammer ones with the cake icing you get in a can cause I can't bake cakes so the grammer crackers have to do.

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Old 09-27-2017, 01:26 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by sr71plt View Post
Yes. Another name for that is "writing fiction."
Yea, I think the average or better writers on Lit are no different from fiction writers anywhere else. I think the rules can be intentionally bent or broken by a writer for a certain effect. That's different from ignoring the rules which is just chaos.

One thing I notice from posts on the AH and from regularly reading lots of Lit stories is that Lit writers are generally very well read. Even if they don't know a past participle from a lepton particle, they know what they're doing with written language from constant exposure and use it to good purpose.

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Old 09-27-2017, 01:32 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John988 View Post
Do any authors here have a little fun playing around with grammar? I read a lot outside of Lit--classics and modern fiction--and I've seen a lot of interesting takes on "proper" grammar. The English language is a living language, and it seems to me that, so long as the author's points are evident and intelligible, grammar can be bent to fit their particular voice. My favorite example is using a third conjunction: "He went to the store to get some strawberries, and he discovered that they were on sale, but they were starting to grow mold." This is technically incorrect, but it captures the author's stream of consciousness better.
Not being an expert in the English language, I ventured on to Google to look up
the meaning of "a third conjunction." Astronomy, "Third Grade Conjunction Games" and a 'workshop', but nothing I could get my head round by way of an explanation.
I reckon the sentence you quoted is a bit of a spoof (as well as being barely comprehensible).
It sure did not capture this stream of consciousness.

But yes, occasionally, I'll use phrases in what I hope is a humorous way; if the story needs it.




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I don't eat a lot of crackers but I eat some with soup and stuff but sometimes I like the grammer ones with the cake icing you get in a can cause I can't bake cakes so the grammer crackers have to do.

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Old 09-27-2017, 02:03 PM   #7
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You mean like this?

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Old 09-27-2017, 02:06 PM   #8
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More seriously - dialogue doesn't stick to grammar rules.

Word keeps flagging up my dialogue as 'fragments'. Why not? That's how people speak.

I don't try to replicate dialogue exactly, nor to be completely grammatical in speech, but to give a flavour of how people speak.
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Old 09-27-2017, 02:31 PM   #9
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More seriously - dialogue doesn't stick to grammar rules.

Word keeps flagging up my dialogue as 'fragments'. Why not? That's how people speak.

I don't try to replicate dialogue exactly, nor to be completely grammatical in speech, but to give a flavour of how people speak.
Indeed.

How do you breathe life into a character that can't speak like he HAS a life?
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Old 09-27-2017, 03:17 PM   #10
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I liked playing with grammar. She usually let me win.
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Old 09-27-2017, 04:08 PM   #11
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Indeed.

How do you breathe life into a character that can't speak like he HAS a life?
Just copy the pattern of speech of someone you know that fits the character you want...
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Old 09-27-2017, 07:27 PM   #12
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I have a friend I play with in Gramecy Park (L.A.). That's either relevant or revelent. I'm just not sure which.
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Old 09-27-2017, 08:01 PM   #13
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If the POV is that of a character, the grammar should be that of the character. If it's very imperfect, that says something about the character, but saying things about the character is the author's job.

If the POV is omniscient, the grammar should be correct, as befits someone who can be everywhere and see everything. Surely an omniscient being can learn grammar?

Unintentionally incorrect grammar is jarring. If it happens enough I close the story.
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Old 09-27-2017, 08:06 PM   #14
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My style started out writing as someone would speak. In which case, grammar is out the window for the most part. It works well, so why mess with it. A distinct if incorrect voice is better than no voice at all.
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Old 09-27-2017, 10:17 PM   #15
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Quote:
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I have a friend I play with in Gramecy Park (L.A.). That's either relevant or revelent. I'm just not sure which.
Close enough. Consider the tome of witchcraft and wizardry, the grimoire. Oooh, evil magic spells! The name comes from grammar, i.e. anyone who could spell and write must be a warlock. So let's all do some sex-magick, hey?
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Old 09-27-2017, 11:04 PM   #16
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Close enough. Consider the tome of witchcraft and wizardry, the grimoire. Oooh, evil magic spells! The name comes from grammar, i.e. anyone who could spell and write must be a warlock. So let's all do some sex-magick, hey?
I too am very suspicious of the literate: They're all planning something...

But I'm always up for some magical sex! Please leave the eyes of newt at home. They tend to get squished between the thrashing bodies, and I can never get those stains out of my lingerie.
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Old 09-27-2017, 11:24 PM   #17
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Joycean Og.
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Old 09-28-2017, 12:17 AM   #18
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One of my favourite stories. But, judging by the reception, Seamus, Lit was perhaps not the best place to post it. Ah, well ... we try these things, Seamus. And sometimes we also manage to pull them off - although, clearly, not 'pull them off' in the sense understood by the majority of Lit readers. Such is life. Give the dog a bone. Let the cards fall where they will, Seamus. Let the cards fall where they will.

https://www.literotica.com/s/the-kitchen-table-2
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Old 09-28-2017, 06:02 PM   #19
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One of my favourite stories. But, judging by the reception, Seamus, Lit was perhaps not the best place to post it. Ah, well ... we try these things, Seamus. And sometimes we also manage to pull them off - although, clearly, not 'pull them off' in the sense understood by the majority of Lit readers. Such is life. Give the dog a bone. Let the cards fall where they will, Seamus. Let the cards fall where they will.

https://www.literotica.com/s/the-kitchen-table-2
I loved that advertising. . . .
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Old 10-02-2017, 06:51 AM   #20
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John O'Hara usta complain about clueless editors correcting character speech.

One of my grandfathers came from Sheffield, Slimey-Limey Land. All Brits talk different but the same. Speech experts knpw why. So fake Brit speech is obvious to me, just as fake Southern speech isobvious to me..
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Old 10-02-2017, 07:30 AM   #21
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Never read that one until just now, og, it was buried deep in the bowels of your massive ouvre. Loved it
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Old 10-02-2017, 07:31 AM   #22
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Never read that one until just now, og, it was buried deep in the bowels of your massive ouvre. Loved it
Thank you. I enjoyed writing it.
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Old 10-03-2017, 09:12 AM   #23
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https://www.literotica.com/s/breathless-stargazing[/quote]

and that thought reminded me that Mary and I were supposed to be guarding the wood from the depredations of known poachers at which task we were manifestly failing because any poacher would hear our coupling form a considerable distance and divert to another part of the wood to pursue their illegal activities undisturbed by the distracted

57 consecutive words with no punctuations.


Quote:
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I liked playing with grammar. She usually let me win.
cute


Quote:
Originally Posted by HandsInTheDark View Post
If the POV is that of a character, the grammar should be that of the character. If it's very imperfect, that says something about the character, but saying things about the character is the author's job.

If the POV is omniscient, the grammar should be correct, as befits someone who can be everywhere and see everything. Surely an omniscient being can learn grammar?

Unintentionally incorrect grammar is jarring. If it happens enough I close the story.
Agreed.


"When I end a quote with a period, I don't capitalize the next word." he said.

I've also been playing with pronouns. "He or she," or "he/she" are a bit lengthy, but I'm not a big fan of the singular they. I've been experimenting with made-up pronouns that are gender-neutral, but specific in regards to proximate and obviate use. You know the problem:

"Donald Trump sat next to the caddy. He gently caressed his hair and rested his hand on his lap. He then flicked a bug off his shoulder."
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Old 10-03-2017, 10:32 AM   #24
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and that thought reminded me that Mary and I were supposed to be guarding the wood from the depredations of known poachers at which task we were manifestly failing because any poacher would hear our coupling form a considerable distance and divert to another part of the wood to pursue their illegal activities undisturbed by the distracted

57 consecutive words with no punctuations.
And my typo! 'from' not 'form'.
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