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How To Get To Heaven When You Die

DO YOU ACCEPT JESUS GIFT OF SALVATION BELIEVING HE DIED N ROSE AGAIN FOR YOUR SINS?

  • YES

    Votes: 48 16.4%

  • NO

    Votes: 148 50.5%

  • I ALREADY ACCEPTED JESUS GIFT OF SALVATION BEFORE

    Votes: 62 21.2%

  • OTHER

    Votes: 35 11.9%
  • Total voters
    293
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xfrodobagginsx said:
That's not what the verse says. It says, IF there is no harm done (to the baby), in other words, the baby was born, but alive... then the punishment is up to the father. If the baby dies (abortion) the men are to be put to death. "If any mischief follow" means if the baby dies. So no abortion is not ok in the Bible.

Ex 21:22 ¶ If men strive, and hurt a woman with child, so that her fruit depart from her, and yet no mischief follow: he shall be surely punished, according as the woman's husband will lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine.
23 And if any mischief follow, then thou shalt give life for life,
24 Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot,
25 Burning for burning, wound for wound, stripe for stripe.
26 And if a man smite the eye of his servant, or the eye of his maid, that it perish; he shall let him go free for his eye's sake.
27 And if he smite out his manservant's tooth, or his maidservant's tooth; he shall let him go free for his tooth's sake.
Click to expand...
Your interpretation doesn't agree with the actual Hebrew text.

Here we go. Exodus 21:22 reads "'enowsh (men) natsah (struggle) nagaph (smite) 'ishshah (woman) hareh (pregnant) yeled (offspring) yatsa' (exit) 'acown (harm) 'anash (punish) 'ishshah (woman) ba'al (husband) shiyth (impose) nathan (ascribe) paliyl (assessment)"
Exodus 21:23 "'acown (harm) nathan (punish) nephesh (life) nephesh (life)"

Nowhere does it say "if no harm done" or "if the baby dies".

Besides, babies can only die after they are born alive. Before birth, they are not babies. No pregnant woman ever says, "I have a baby." They say, "I'm going to have a baby."
 
phrodeau said:
Besides, babies can only die after they are born alive. Before birth, they are not babies. No pregnant woman ever says, "I have a baby." They say, "I'm going to have a baby."
Click to expand...

I don't know your whole conversation but it has always amazes me how two faced our society is. What it really comes down to is whether the mother wanted the child or not. If the mother doesn't want the baby ~ abortion is legal and she can kill it. If the mother wants the baby and someone kills it they go to jail for murder. We have made it a law that the unborn can be victims in this case. I don't get it. I really don't get it.

My heart goes out to anyone who has had to make hard decisions. :rose:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unborn_Victims_of_Violence_Act

At the signing ceremony, the President was joined on stage by men and women who had lost family members in two-victim crimes, including Laci Peterson's mother, Sharon Rocha. During his remarks at the ceremony, Bush said, "Any time an expectant mother is a victim of violence, two lives are in the balance, each deserving protection, and each deserving justice. If the crime is murder and the unborn child's life ends, justice demands a full accounting under the law." Senator John Kerry, his main opponent in the 2004 Presidential election, voted against the bill, saying, "I have serious concerns about this legislation because the law cannot simultaneously provide that a fetus is a human being and protect the right of the mother to choose to terminate her pregnancy."
 
phrodeau said:
Your interpretation doesn't agree with the actual Hebrew text.

Here we go. Exodus 21:22 reads "'enowsh (men) natsah (struggle) nagaph (smite) 'ishshah (woman) hareh (pregnant) yeled (offspring) yatsa' (exit) 'acown (harm) 'anash (punish) 'ishshah (woman) ba'al (husband) shiyth (impose) nathan (ascribe) paliyl (assessment)"
Exodus 21:23 "'acown (harm) nathan (punish) nephesh (life) nephesh (life)"

Nowhere does it say "if no harm done" or "if the baby dies".

Besides, babies can only die after they are born alive. Before birth, they are not babies. No pregnant woman ever says, "I have a baby." They say, "I'm going to have a baby."
Click to expand...

Yes it does via the word 'acown

Ex 21:22 ¶ If men <'enowsh> strive <natsah>, and hurt <nagaph> a woman <'ishshah> with child <hareh>, so that her fruit <yeled> depart <yatsa'> from her, and yet no mischief follow <'acown>: he shall be surely <`anash> punished <`anash>, according as the woman's <'ishshah> husband <ba`al> will lay <shiyth> upon him; and he shall pay <nathan> as the judges <paliyl> determine.

Yes it does via this word:

0611. Nwoa 'acown, aws-sone'
Search for 0611 in KJV


of uncertain derivation; hurt:--mischief.

Ex 21:23 And if any mischief follow <'acown>, then thou shalt give <nathan> life <nephesh> for life <nephesh>,


Ex 21:22 (KJV) If men strive, and hurt a woman with child, so that her fruit depart [from her], and yet no mischief follow: he shall be surely punished, according as the woman's husband will lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges [determine].
Ex 21:22 (MKJV) If men strive and strike a pregnant woman, so that her child comes out, and there is no injury, he shall surely be punished, according as the woman's husband will lay upon him. And he shall pay as the judges [say]
Ex 21:22 (NKJV) "If men fight, and hurt a woman with child, so that she gives birth prematurely, yet no harm follows, he shall surely be punished accordingly as the woman's husband imposes on him; and he shall pay as the judges [determine].
Ex 21:22 (ASV) And if men strive together, and hurt a woman with child, so that her fruit depart, and yet no harm follow; he shall be surely fined, according as the woman's husband shall lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine.
Ex 21:22 (RSV) "When men strive together, and hurt a woman with child, so that there is a miscarriage, and yet no harm follows, the one who hurt her shall be fined, according as the woman's husband shall lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine.
Ex 21:22 (YLT) `And when men strive, and have smitten a pregnant woman, and her children have come out, and there is no mischief, he is certainly fined, as the husband of the woman doth lay upon him, and he hath given through the judges;
Ex 21:22 (WEB) "If men fight and hurt a pregnant woman so that she gives birth prematurely, and yet no harm follows, he shall be surely fined as much as the woman's husband demands and the judges allow.
Ex 21:22 (WNT)
Ex 21:22 (MNT) -
Ex 21:22 (BBE) If men, while fighting, do damage to a woman with child, causing the loss of the child, but no other evil comes to her, the man will have to make payment up to the amount fixed by her husband, in agreement with the decision of the judges.
Ex 21:22 (DBY) And if men strive together, and strike a woman with child, so that she be delivered, and no mischief happen, he shall in any case be fined, according as the woman's husband shall impose on him, and shall give it as the judges estimate.



Ex 21:23 (KJV) And if [any] mischief follow, then thou shalt give life for life,
Ex 21:23 (MKJV) And if [any] injury occurs, then you shall give life for life,
Ex 21:23 (NKJV) "But if [any] harm follows, then you shall give life for life,
Ex 21:23 (ASV) But if any harm follow, then thou shalt give life for life,
Ex 21:23 (RSV) If any harm follows, then you shall give life for life,
Ex 21:23 (YLT) and if there is mischief, then thou hast given life for life,
Ex 21:23 (WEB) But if any harm follows, then you must take life for life,
Ex 21:23 (WNT)
Ex 21:23 (MNT) -
Ex 21:23 (BBE) But if damage comes to her, let life be given in payment for life,
Ex 21:23 (DBY) But if mischief happen, then thou shalt give life for life,
 
xfrodobagginsx said:
Yes it does via the word 'acown

Ex 21:22 ¶ If men <'enowsh> strive <natsah>, and hurt <nagaph> a woman <'ishshah> with child <hareh>, so that her fruit <yeled> depart <yatsa'> from her, and yet no mischief follow <'acown>: he shall be surely <`anash> punished <`anash>, according as the woman's <'ishshah> husband <ba`al> will lay <shiyth> upon him; and he shall pay <nathan> as the judges <paliyl> determine.

Yes it does via this word:

0611. Nwoa 'acown, aws-sone'
Search for 0611 in KJV


of uncertain derivation; hurt:--mischief.

Ex 21:23 And if any mischief follow <'acown>, then thou shalt give <nathan> life <nephesh> for life <nephesh>,


Ex 21:22 (KJV) If men strive, and hurt a woman with child, so that her fruit depart [from her], and yet no mischief follow: he shall be surely punished, according as the woman's husband will lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges [determine].
Ex 21:22 (MKJV) If men strive and strike a pregnant woman, so that her child comes out, and there is no injury, he shall surely be punished, according as the woman's husband will lay upon him. And he shall pay as the judges [say]
Ex 21:22 (NKJV) "If men fight, and hurt a woman with child, so that she gives birth prematurely, yet no harm follows, he shall surely be punished accordingly as the woman's husband imposes on him; and he shall pay as the judges [determine].
Ex 21:22 (ASV) And if men strive together, and hurt a woman with child, so that her fruit depart, and yet no harm follow; he shall be surely fined, according as the woman's husband shall lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine.
Ex 21:22 (RSV) "When men strive together, and hurt a woman with child, so that there is a miscarriage, and yet no harm follows, the one who hurt her shall be fined, according as the woman's husband shall lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine.
Ex 21:22 (YLT) `And when men strive, and have smitten a pregnant woman, and her children have come out, and there is no mischief, he is certainly fined, as the husband of the woman doth lay upon him, and he hath given through the judges;
Ex 21:22 (WEB) "If men fight and hurt a pregnant woman so that she gives birth prematurely, and yet no harm follows, he shall be surely fined as much as the woman's husband demands and the judges allow.
Ex 21:22 (WNT)
Ex 21:22 (MNT) -
Ex 21:22 (BBE) If men, while fighting, do damage to a woman with child, causing the loss of the child, but no other evil comes to her, the man will have to make payment up to the amount fixed by her husband, in agreement with the decision of the judges.
Ex 21:22 (DBY) And if men strive together, and strike a woman with child, so that she be delivered, and no mischief happen, he shall in any case be fined, according as the woman's husband shall impose on him, and shall give it as the judges estimate.



Ex 21:23 (KJV) And if [any] mischief follow, then thou shalt give life for life,
Ex 21:23 (MKJV) And if [any] injury occurs, then you shall give life for life,
Ex 21:23 (NKJV) "But if [any] harm follows, then you shall give life for life,
Ex 21:23 (ASV) But if any harm follow, then thou shalt give life for life,
Ex 21:23 (RSV) If any harm follows, then you shall give life for life,
Ex 21:23 (YLT) and if there is mischief, then thou hast given life for life,
Ex 21:23 (WEB) But if any harm follows, then you must take life for life,
Ex 21:23 (WNT)
Ex 21:23 (MNT) -
Ex 21:23 (BBE) But if damage comes to her, let life be given in payment for life,
Ex 21:23 (DBY) But if mischief happen, then thou shalt give life for life,
Click to expand...
'Acown means mischief. Where does it say "no mischief?"

http://polymath.org/hebrew_negation.php
 
Fro vs Phro. Which of these closed-minded individuals will convert the other in the scintillating battle of semantics over an ancient text written in a language neither has fluency in?
 
phrodeau is one of the decent GB liberals.

He never stalked or harassed me or others for our board style or political opinions,
neither did he passively aggressively encourage attack alts, like other GB 'liberals' do.
He treats people with respect.
 
Last edited:
hsnh said:
phrodeau is one of the decent GB liberals.

He never stalked or harassed me or others for our board style or political opinions,
neither did he passively aggressively encourage attack alts, like other GB 'liberals' do.
He treats people with respect.
Click to expand...

But how does he treat those whom he disagrees with?
 
phrodeau said:
Exodus 21:24.
Click to expand...

Jesus said:

Mt 5:38 ¶ Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:
39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.
40 And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloke also.
41 And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain.
42 Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away.
43 ¶ Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.
44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.
46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?
47 And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so?
48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.


We are no longer under the Mosaic Law:

Ro 6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
 
Que said:
Fro vs Phro. Which of these closed-minded individuals will convert the other in the scintillating battle of semantics over an ancient text written in a language neither has fluency in?
Click to expand...

If looking at the actual evidence makes me closed minded then guilty.
 
Bad_Doggie said:
The bible has equally abhorrent tracts in it.



Who are these " actual eyewitnesses who were actually there" ?

Woof!
Click to expand...

No it doesn't. The "Actual eyewitnesses who were actually there" are the writers of the Bible. In order for a book of the NT to be accepted as inspired by God, the writer had to be an apostle or a close friend of an apostle. The only 2 exceptions were James and Jude who were half brothers of Jesus Christ Himself.
 
xfrodobagginsx said:
No it doesn't. The "Actual eyewitnesses who were actually there" are the writers of the Bible. In order for a book of the NT to be accepted as inspired by God, the writer had to be an apostle or a close friend of an apostle. The only 2 exceptions were James and Jude who were half brothers of Jesus Christ Himself.
Click to expand...

Didn't you confirm last week you were an Evangelist?

Are you actually a JW?
 
xfrodobagginsx said:
No it doesn't. The "Actual eyewitnesses who were actually there" are the writers of the Bible. In order for a book of the NT to be accepted as inspired by God, the writer had to be an apostle or a close friend of an apostle. The only 2 exceptions were James and Jude who were half brothers of Jesus Christ Himself.
Click to expand...
That reduces the New Testament to three books; Mark, James and Jude.
 
phrodeau said:
That reduces the New Testament to three books; Mark, James and Jude.
Click to expand...

This statement shows that you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. The whole NT was written by the eyewitnesses who were actually there.

THIS VIDEO WILL EXPLAIN HOW THE NEW TESTAMENT OF THE BIBLE WAS CANONIZED (CAME TO BE) PART 1 AUTOMATICALLY MERGES INTO PART 2

WHOLE VIDEO:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_bbXRVS5JY
 
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