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State Of The Union USA 2004

I think a politician can make vague religious references but when it used as a basis for national policy it crosses the line.

Here's an exerpt and link to an article that shows how the line gets blurred from law to accepted common practice. Regardless of my personal views, is this a question to pose a candidate? I'm not a Dean supporter but this illustrates to me that the original founding principle is being compromised.
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THE OTHER day, I was reading an interview with Democratic presidential candidate Howard Dean in Newsweek when I had to stop and check that it was indeed Newsweek and not, say, Christianity Today. Yes, it was indeed Newsweek. And, after a series of questions about a variety of public policy issues, Dean was asked, out of the clear blue, the following question: "Do you see Jesus Christ as the son of God and believe in him as the route to salvation and eternal life?" For the record, Dean's somewhat cagey answer probably did little to assuage doubts about his religious faith: "I certainly see him as the son of God. I think whether I'm saved or not is not gonna be up to me." The real issue, though, is why this question even came up in a political magazine. Do we now have a religious test for public office -- something that was explicitly rejected by the Founders of the United States of America?

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full story
http://www.boston.com/news/politics...e_new_discimination_against_the_nonreligious/
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No only a religious test if you are going to set on a supreme court seat or on the court of appeals in one of the states.

If you believe in god...your fucked. No matter how well qualified you are.

Believing in Satan or anything else or nothing is OK.

Silly me, I thought they were only supposed to give an up or down vote. Thats what the rules say.
 
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For good or bad, religion will always be highly linked to the Presidency. We've never had a President that isn't Christian. We've never had a President that hasn't mentioned God at least once in a State-of-the-Union.

Dean's wife is Jewish. Not a problem per se, but I can see that fact not playing so well in some parts of America... old prejudices run deep... Perhaps that was the point of the questions...

I'm not justifying it, but it may/could be an issue (unfortunately)
 
Parklife said:
For good or bad, religion will always be highly linked to the Presidency. We've never had a President that isn't Christian. We've never had a President that hasn't mentioned God at least once in a State-of-the-Union.
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LIncoln mentioned god only because he was forced by his staff.
 
apexpark said:
he defends his belief in marriage on god.
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"A strong America must also value the institution of marriage. I believe we should respect individuals as we take a principled stand for one of the most fundamental, enduring institutions of our civilization. Congress has already taken a stand on this issue by passing the Defense of Marriage Act, signed in 1996 by President Clinton. That statute protects marriage under Federal law as the union of a man and a woman, and declares that one state may not redefine marriage for other states. Activist judges, however, have begun redefining marriage by court order, without regard for the will of the people and their elected representatives. On an issue of such great consequence, the people's voice must be heard. If judges insist on forcing their arbitrary will upon the people, the only alternative left to the people would be the constitutional process. Our Nation must defend the sanctity of marriage."

Number of God references = 0
Number of Bill Clinton references = 1

TB4p
 
It really sounded like a "Maintenance Speech" to me. There wasn't much new or stirring here. I wasn't impressed, but neithre was I incensed and there wasn't much there I already didn't know.


FYI - The religion thing with Dean is playing because he made it an issue and has been...well...somewhat less than sincere or knowledgeable about it.
 
Yeah, if all anyone can find to fuss about is him using the word God many times, then it must have been not to shabby of a job. He has the right to use his personal belief system in a State of the Union address. Anyone that would want to take that away from him is in direct violation of the rights they should cherrish.


Now onto the meaningful stuff. This dude panders more than any president in memory. I am just wondering how he plans to pay for all this shit.


The part I loved was the 300 million to reintroduce prisoners into society by making it easier for them to obtain gainfull employment. Wow, a whole 300 million when we are spending just how much on Iraq? There are more young black men in jail than in college, and granted that is because they choose a life of crime or to be thugs, but would it not make much more sense to turn over a few billion to the state/local guys for education, for development of communities, for the simple instilling of some hope into a desperate situaition than to wage a war that in all reality was not ours to fight?
 
brokenbrainwave said:
The part I loved was the 300 million to reintroduce prisoners into society by making it easier for them to obtain gainfull employment. Wow, a whole 300 million when we are spending just how much on Iraq? There are more young black men in jail than in college, and granted that is because they choose a life of crime or to be thugs, but would it not make much more sense to turn over a few billion to the state/local guys for education, for development of communities, for the simple instilling of some hope into a desperate situaition than to wage a war that in all reality was not ours to fight?
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Yeah, I saw that too and wasn't real thrilled.

We've blissfully tossed 30 or 40 trillion into the inner cities and other such underdeveloped areas and it seems to have bougt us rather spectacular failure. I'd rather not stick another penny into the same old mistakes.
 
JazzManJim said:
Yeah, I saw that too and wasn't real thrilled.

We've blissfully tossed 30 or 40 trillion into the inner cities and other such underdeveloped areas and it seems to have bougt us rather spectacular failure. I'd rather not stick another penny into the same old mistakes.
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ahh, you missed the point of what I was getting at.

Let the feds hand over the monies to the local guys and stay the hell out of it. I agree if some idiot in DC is going to say what they have to do, then burn the inner cities down. That has never nor will ever work. These are local issues that a national politician will never be able to grasp.

Then again this administration, much like the previous one hasn't shown much of a willingness to give a shit about those from Joe Sick pack on down the economic chain...
 
I noticed when he was talking about the torture chambers in Iraq.

He almost smirked and started laughing......I found this rather odd....I wonder if the hampster in his head found something he said funny...( no offense to those Hampsters out there.)

I didn't watch it....I was busy having sex......Shrugg
 
brokenbrainwave said:
ahh, you missed the point of what I was getting at.

Let the feds hand over the monies to the local guys and stay the hell out of it. I agree if some idiot in DC is going to say what they have to do, then burn the inner cities down. That has never nor will ever work. These are local issues that a national politician will never be able to grasp.

Then again this administration, much like the previous one hasn't shown much of a willingness to give a shit about those from Joe Sick pack on down the economic chain...
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I'll go you one better. Don't let the Federal Government hand it out at all (though maybe that's what you meant by stay the hell out. I was a bit confused). There's no need for them to skim the Lion's Share of those dollars in overhead just to pass them on to the local guys. Let the local guys form thier own programs tailored for their own neighborhoods and get the money directly from the people.

I disagree with your assessment of their not giving a shit about the local guys. Even on my relatively small salary, the tax cuts have made a good difference.
 
JazzManJim said:
I'll go you one better. Don't let the Federal Government hand it out at all (though maybe that's what you meant by stay the hell out. I was a bit confused). There's no need for them to skim the Lion's Share of those dollars in overhead just to pass them on to the local guys. Let the local guys form thier own programs tailored for their own neighborhoods and get the money directly from the people.

I disagree with your assessment of their not giving a shit about the local guys. Even on my relatively small salary, the tax cuts have made a good difference.
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those tax cuts were offset by raises in your local and state taxes.

Translation:you could afford to pay them more.


Also, if the feds did not tax the fuck out of us still, maybe locals could afford to do something like you suggest.


Sorry while I am not a liberal perse', I refuse to give up on something a precious as a life. Perhaps if there were more with that attitude and less of those with yours, maybe you would not be afraid when you deliver your part time pizzas to a "black" part of town.

I promise I am not trying to be an asshole JJM, but your arrogance and ambivilance towards fellow humans is a bit disturbing.
 
plasmaball said:
I noticed when he was talking about the torture chambers in Iraq.

He almost smirked and started laughing......I found this rather odd.
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Maybe he thought it amusing that he's one of the only two candidates for President who thought that letting a few more thousand go through them every years wasn't such a cracking good idea.
 
brokenbrainwave said:
those tax cuts were offset by raises in your local and state taxes.

Translation:you could afford to pay them more.


Also, if the feds did not tax the fuck out of us still, maybe locals could afford to do something like you suggest.


Sorry while I am not a liberal perse', I refuse to give up on something a precious as a life. Perhaps if there were more with that attitude and less of those with yours, maybe you would not be afraid when you deliver your part time pizzas to a "black" part of town.

I promise I am not trying to be an asshole JJM, but your arrogance and ambivilance towards fellow humans is a bit disturbing.
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No, I didn't have any local or state tax increases. I just figured my taxes out and I'm getting more back - fedreal and state - than I did last year.

And to what ambivalence do you refer? I happen to think that keeping a entire class of people subjugated and dependent on the public dole, by design, is one of the greatest travesties we've ever seen in this country. I refuse to give up on a human life, too, which is why I think we ought to stop taking away the humanity and dignity of millions of our citizens. Those people did not start out life desperate and degraded. We made them that way on purpose, to feed the Federal machine. Shame on us, eh?
 
Maybe he thought it amusing that he's one of the only two candidates for President who thought that letting a few more thousand go through them every years wasn't such a cracking good idea.
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:rolleyes:

Or maybe he was just laughing at something he said.......like when you are high...
 
I happen to think that keeping a entire class of people subjugated and dependent on the public dole, by design, is one of the greatest travesties we've ever seen in this country
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blah, right now if that public money got Helped get my Wisdom tooth pulled, it wouldn't bother me one bit!
 
WELL!

Obama fixed this shit didn't he!:rolleyes:

Happy NOW?
 
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