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Old 05-23-2013, 11:20 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by butters View Post
Type - fast! I dunno, almost as fast as i can talk or think - specially if i'm not operating the shift key.

Yes, yes she was

The title - blame the tv. Some wildlife oceanic programme mentioned nano-clams. It was on in the back ground as I was making posts over on the general board. The sound of the name made me prick up my ears:

'nano-clams'? Never heard of them. Are they real? Of course they are, they're on a documentary. *Opens browser to look them up . . . posts on the general board 'nano-clams!*

Then when I read the call for titles, it seemed an obvious choice but needed a little something more and that's where it went. And you're probably the only one who's got a draft pinned down already I'm still doing a bit of reading - before I throw all that aside and write whatever comes along
A shame rybka is no longer here


Are they real? Of course they are, they're on a documentary.

so are dead aliens in area 51

but on a serious note, your comments are amazing, and your work, I feel the same way about stevens.
like i'm missing something
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Old 05-24-2013, 03:00 AM   #52
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Originally Posted by twelveoone View Post
A shame rybka is no longer here


Are they real? Of course they are, they're on a documentary.

so are dead aliens in area 51

but on a serious note, your comments are amazing, and your work, I feel the same way about stevens.
like i'm missing something
Don't think I ever interacted with the guy - before my time, maybe.

Well this was a 'proper' documentary.

Could be I'm just better at commenting than poetry. Story of my life, sorry.


Having said that, it's great to see you back posting, mr. I think Angie's busy for a couple of weeks, but it'd be good to have you pinned in one place to answer questions.
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Old 05-24-2013, 08:09 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by twelveoone View Post
A shame rybka is no longer here


Are they real? Of course they are, they're on a documentary.

so are dead aliens in area 51
Waht are you trying to say, that people make all that stuff up?
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Old 05-24-2013, 01:59 PM   #54
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Waht are you trying to say, that people make all that stuff up?
Say it ain't so!
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Old 05-24-2013, 03:15 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by butters View Post
Don't think I ever interacted with the guy - before my time, maybe.

Well this was a 'proper' documentary.

Could be I'm just better at commenting than poetry. Story of my life, sorry.


Having said that, it's great to see you back posting, mr. I think Angie's busy for a couple of weeks, but it'd be good to have you pinned in one place to answer questions.
If you guys want to do an interview, I'll stick a thread for you--or I'm sure bronze would. I have a house full of guests for the next three weeks. (My house gets very popular when the weather gets nice because of the mountains in the backyard.)
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Old 05-25-2013, 02:57 AM   #56
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If you guys want to do an interview, I'll stick a thread for you--or I'm sure bronze would. I have a house full of guests for the next three weeks. (My house gets very popular when the weather gets nice because of the mountains in the backyard.)
It'd be very cool to see the next interview. Maybe more of us will come forward with questions now

Who's game? It's an interesting procedure, and (for me) has resulted in more insight into how and why I write the way I do and a greater appreciation for that disconnect some readers get when reading me. It's something that can be worked on now it's apparent. There are plenty here I've lots of questions for.
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Old 06-07-2013, 05:57 AM   #57
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Chipbutters, what is the best poem you've written and why?

I think it might be

plenty of fish in the sea
bybuttersİ

if only i'd spread
bread crumbs on the surface
bait blue waters
with shiny, pretty lures

but i hate the barbed hooks
gill-stuck and compromising
hate the frantic thrash of rainbowed flanks
that roiling desperation

i don't even have a keep net
anymore

-------------
But I don't have as much access to your poems as you do.
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Old 06-07-2013, 09:00 AM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bflagsst View Post
Chipbutters, what is the best poem you've written and why?

I think it might be

plenty of fish in the sea
bybuttersİ

if only i'd spread
bread crumbs on the surface
bait blue waters
with shiny, pretty lures

but i hate the barbed hooks
gill-stuck and compromising
hate the frantic thrash of rainbowed flanks
that roiling desperation

i don't even have a keep net
anymore

-------------
But I don't have as much access to your poems as you do.
I also think that might be her best poem, but I still don't understand why it doesn't read something like this:

if only i'd spread
bread crumbs on the surface
baited blue waters
with shiny, pretty lures

Perhaps this is a good place to ask about it.
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Old 06-07-2013, 09:05 AM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bflagsst View Post
Chipbutters, what is the best poem you've written and why?

I think it might be

plenty of fish in the sea
bybuttersİ

if only i'd spread
bread crumbs on the surface
bait blue waters
with shiny, pretty lures

but i hate the barbed hooks
gill-stuck and compromising
hate the frantic thrash of rainbowed flanks
that roiling desperation

i don't even have a keep net
anymore

-------------
But I don't have as much access to your poems as you do.
Hmmn, you have me thinking. Thanks, bflagsst. that one didn't get much interest, but that's not how I, personally, judge a poem's success. Life gets in the way of reading and commenting, and we have to be in the right frame of mind to go to the published section. Without it looking as if I'm seeking ego strokes, could you tell me why you think it one of the best? I like it, but it's helpful to see how others think, whether that's for a positive or negative review.

There's that thing with the last two lines again, though. Perhaps better without?

*Goes to look at my poems to see which I'd choose*
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Last edited by butters : 06-07-2013 at 09:31 AM.
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Old 06-07-2013, 09:11 AM   #60
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Originally Posted by theognis View Post
I also think that might be her best poem, but I still don't understand why it doesn't read something like this:

if only i'd spread
bread crumbs on the surface
baited blue waters
with shiny, pretty lures

Perhaps this is a good place to ask about it.
hello

Thanks for the question, theo - you just caught me. The reason is tense: this is written in the present tense, and prompted by a pm from a friend suggesting I put out 'lures' for a boyfriend as I was wasting myself not having one

So - that would read 'if only i would spread/bread crumbs on the surface/bait blue waters/with shiny, pretty lures'.

Looking back, I see the ambiguity that contraction might create.
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Old 06-07-2013, 09:20 AM   #61
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Originally Posted by butters View Post
hello

Thanks for the question, theo - you just caught me. The reason is tense: this is written in the present tense, and prompted by a pm from a friend suggesting I put out 'lures' for a boyfriend as I was wasting myself not having one

So - that would read 'if only i would spread/bread crumbs on the surface/bait blue waters/with shiny, pretty lures'.

Looking back, I see the ambiguity that contraction might create.
Ah, mystery solved. Thanks, butters.
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Old 06-07-2013, 12:13 PM   #62
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ok, bflagsst, this is one of mine i think better than most. others may not agree with me

http://www.literotica.com/p/positive-thinking

I like this one for its strength of imagery and positive outlook, the sound of the words themselves and its general 'tidyness' - each word doing its fair share of work. The final two lines are still a thing of some bemusement for me: to keep or to scrap? Scrapping them makes this a more open-to-the-reader poem, which is, in itself, a positive thing for any poem; keeping them injects me into the poem, which might make some readers feel excluded. My wish would be that the reader buys into the read enough to become the narrator for the duration of the poem and can experience that feeling at the end of 'hope-but-am-i-kidding-myself?' I think that feeling's one most of us will have some familiarity with and so I'm piggybacking off the reader's own experience, intent on engaging the reader enough to invest in the write.

I'd say these are also contenders in my opinion, but for varying reasons:

http://www.literotica.com/p/the-shape-of-the-thing

http://www.literotica.com/p/and-you-and-you-and-you

and

summit

when a mountain floats
when you've eaten too much ice
when you're snowblind
and breathing air too rare
when your bones know
they tether muscles as they quiver -
thin strings in drawn-out notes -
still your heart swells
as the falling sun paints purple thoughts
and roseate desire
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Old 06-07-2013, 12:17 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by butters View Post
Hmmn, you have me thinking. Thanks, bflagsst. that one didn't get much interest, but that's not how I, personally, judge a poem's success. Life gets in the way of reading and commenting, and we have to be in the right frame of mind to go to the published section. Without it looking as if I'm seeking ego strokes, could you tell me why you think it one of the best? I like it, but it's helpful to see how others think, whether that's for a positive or negative review.

There's that thing with the last two lines again, though. Perhaps better without?

*Goes to look at my poems to see which I'd choose*
if only i'd spread
bread crumbs on the surface
bait blue waters
with shiny, pretty lures

[First line is ambiguous, first stanza is elegant, rhyme and alliteration is gentle.]

but i hate the barbed hooks
gill-stuck and compromising
hate the frantic thrash of rainbowed flanks
that roiling desperation

[First two lines aren't perfect, 'compromising' as opposed to 'compromised' is my own niggle, would have preferred another spread/bread combo, but bait/hate in the second two lines makes up for it, not to mention the quality of the final two. Not many poets can get away with that many near synonyms bound together.]

i don't even have a keep net
anymore

[Keepnet is solid, anymore is questionable as a second line, but I wouldn't advise changing it as it's already a quality poem and there's no reason a poem can't live and breathe with its bumps and bruises. I felt that there was another stanza to this poem, so you've kept me wanting more.]

So, I probably think it's your best because I believe it to be honest and not put on, plus it's a quality poem and had I not known anything about your other poems or your message board persona I would enjoy it.
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Old 06-07-2013, 12:23 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by butters View Post
ok, bflagsst, this is one of mine i think better than most. others may not agree with me

http://www.literotica.com/p/positive-thinking

I like this one for its strength of imagery and positive outlook, the sound of the words themselves and its general 'tidyness' - each word doing its fair share of work. The final two lines are still a thing of some bemusement for me: to keep or to scrap? Scrapping them makes this a more open-to-the-reader poem, which is, in itself, a postive thing for any poem; keeping them injects me into the poem, which might make some readers feel excluded. My wish would be that the reader buys into the read enough to become the narrator for the duration of the poem and can experience that feeling at the end of 'hope-but-am-i-kidding-myself?' I think that feeling's one most of us will have some familiarity with and so I'm piggybacking off the reader's own experience, intent on engaging the reader enough to invest in the write.

I'd say these are also contenders in my opinion, but for varying reasons:

http://www.literotica.com/p/the-shape-of-the-thing

http://www.literotica.com/p/and-you-and-you-and-you

and

summit

when a mountain floats
when you've eaten too much ice
when you're snowblind
and breathing air too rare
when your bones know
they tether muscles as they quiver -
thin strings in drawn-out notes -
still your heart swells
as the falling sun paints purple thoughts
and roseate desire
Shape of the Thing is excellent. Positive Thinking I might not be smart enough to understand the references, because I don't, so it falls flat for me.

Methusulah, with his long grey beard,
whispered in your sleeping ear
of fools and wise men, sons and daughters,
the Devil's love for holy water,
of a single, human footprint in the sand;
of the perils of duplicity,
the rigours of respectability,
of such passions as can tear apart a man.
-----
as I may have commented before(maybe just to myself) is a perfect stanza of poetry.
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Old 06-07-2013, 01:34 PM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bflagsst View Post
Chipbutters, what is the best poem you've written and why?

I think it might be

plenty of fish in the sea
bybuttersİ

if only i'd spread
bread crumbs on the surface
bait blue waters
with shiny, pretty lures

but i hate the barbed hooks
gill-stuck and compromising
hate the frantic thrash of rainbowed flanks
that roiling desperation

i don't even have a keep net
anymore

-------------
.
ooh I like this one. Love inventing adjectives with hyphens myself and gill-stuck is a twisty language trick - love it.

I read the question about the trick of reaching american readers, etc. and in a way, when I am reading a poet with a dialect that is different than mine (or English as a second language) I find the terms with which I am unfamiliar to give the poem more poemness.

I never heard of a keep net

but the phrase
keep net
is perfectly poetic and original to me, adding to the poem effortlessly.
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Old 06-07-2013, 03:58 PM   #66
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I never heard of a keep net
.
A keepnet as opposed to a keep net, is a net you keep your caught fish in. It is a large elongated net, sort of in the shape of a condom (Yes, let get rid of the poetry ) you hang in the water which allows you to keep the capptured fish alive. I think the writer means keepnet.
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Old 06-07-2013, 04:18 PM   #67
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summit is great too. I like how I'd be reading the first four lines and be a little disinterested in the poem then get to 'when your bones know' and how my heart swells with the quality of the last five lines, so that I reread and engage the first half of the poem.
------------
when a mountain floats
when you've eaten too much ice
when you're snowblind
and breathing air too rare
when your bones know
they tether muscles as they quiver -
thin strings in drawn-out notes -
still your heart swells
as the falling sun paints purple thoughts
and roseate desire
---------------

I think we're in near agreement for most of which poems are your best.

Summit, Shape of the Thing, Plenty of Fish would be included next to one or two of 1201s poems and Foehn's Hanna Loves Horses in 'bflagsst's poems he found on literotica that probably should have been tucked away somewhere fancier' anthology.

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Old 06-07-2013, 04:29 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by bogusagain View Post
A keepnet as opposed to a keep net, is a net you keep your caught fish in. It is a large elongated net, sort of in the shape of a condom (Yes, let get rid of the poetry ) you hang in the water which allows you to keep the capptured fish alive. I think the writer means keepnet.
Yes, I meant the net you keep your caught fish in, still alive and fresh But which is right, since even this site for fishing equipment spells it both ways
http://www.fostersofbirmingham.co.uk.../nets/keepnets
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Old 06-07-2013, 04:35 PM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bflagsst View Post
if only i'd spread
bread crumbs on the surface
bait blue waters
with shiny, pretty lures

[First line is ambiguous, first stanza is elegant, rhyme and alliteration is gentle.]

but i hate the barbed hooks
gill-stuck and compromising
hate the frantic thrash of rainbowed flanks
that roiling desperation

[First two lines aren't perfect, 'compromising' as opposed to 'compromised' is my own niggle, would have preferred another spread/bread combo, but bait/hate in the second two lines makes up for it, not to mention the quality of the final two. Not many poets can get away with that many near synonyms bound together.]

i don't even have a keep net
anymore

[Keepnet is solid, anymore is questionable as a second line, but I wouldn't advise changing it as it's already a quality poem and there's no reason a poem can't live and breathe with its bumps and bruises. I felt that there was another stanza to this poem, so you've kept me wanting more.]

So, I probably think it's your best because I believe it to be honest and not put on, plus it's a quality poem and had I not known anything about your other poems or your message board persona I would enjoy it.
I really appreciate your thoughts, bflagsst. It's through others' eyes I get to see how my writes appear to others. I'm frequently guilty of that thing where it's perfectly clear in my own head what I'm seeing and imagine the words used will create that same set of pictures in a reader's mind - it can be hard to disassociate between what I'm seeing and what I'm actually reading, that overlap we must all have as writers.

A poem's innate honesty is something I aim for, even if it's entirely fictional.
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Old 06-07-2013, 04:43 PM   #70
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ooh I like this one. Love inventing adjectives with hyphens myself and gill-stuck is a twisty language trick - love it.

I read the question about the trick of reaching american readers, etc. and in a way, when I am reading a poet with a dialect that is different than mine (or English as a second language) I find the terms with which I am unfamiliar to give the poem more poemness.

I never heard of a keep net

but the phrase
keep net
is perfectly poetic and original to me, adding to the poem effortlessly.
Hello again, Anna What accent or dialect is native to you as you read? Mine's London but even other UK accents must change the musicality of certain poems.

That thing about lending 'poemness' to a poem . . . I think that is another thing most of us, if not all, do: a foreign word, a word we're not familiar with, anything that could be conceived as remotely 'exotic' waves a little magic wand over a read. Maybe that's why so many of us find accents so entrancing . . . to expand on that, maybe it's something built into us to encourage perpetuation of the human race by gene-crossing for stronger, healthier offspring! Maybe not, but it sounds semi-logical
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Old 06-07-2013, 04:54 PM   #71
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Shape of the Thing is excellent. Positive Thinking I might not be smart enough to understand the references, because I don't, so it falls flat for me.

Methusulah, with his long grey beard,
whispered in your sleeping ear
of fools and wise men, sons and daughters,
the Devil's love for holy water,
of a single, human footprint in the sand;
of the perils of duplicity,
the rigours of respectability,
of such passions as can tear apart a man.
-----
as I may have commented before(maybe just to myself) is a perfect stanza of poetry.
Glad you enjoyed the shape of the thing. Your comment about positive thinking probably doesn't reflect on your smarts Not so much references as imagery that (I'd hoped) worked to create an apocalyptic/the world's dying/despairing sense of this-can't-get-any-worse kind of starkness that could be a metaphor. Damn it, everything's a metaphor, right?

Well, maybe not everything; not so many metaphors in that stanza you've quoted as in some preceding it. I prefer the one right before that starting with 'and you dreamt you wrote a mystic piece/where vague and shuffling demons danced'.
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Old 06-07-2013, 09:29 PM   #72
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A keepnet as opposed to a keep net, is a net you keep your caught fish in. It is a large elongated net, sort of in the shape of a condom (Yes, let get rid of the poetry ) you hang in the water which allows you to keep the capptured fish alive. I think the writer means keepnet.
The cool thing is I knew exactly what it was without having heard the term before....making it new but accessible
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Old 06-07-2013, 09:40 PM   #73
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I don't know about all of that, I just like when a writer uses unique descriptions or twists of general conversational language. To me, it is one of the biggest things that makes a poem a poem.

Not necessarily exotic....


I grew up in Pennsylvania among the Pennsylvania Dutch (who said things like Outten the lights..... I went to college in DC and loved to hear the different ways of saying the same thing. Spigot. Faucet. Moved to Baltimore and again....

Now I live in Texas and it is a whole 'nother world. Someone used the term "gully washer" and I could not stop saying it in my head. I had never heard such a term before but of course, knew exactly what he meant. Gully washer Gully Washer.

And that moment will never happen again. I will put it in a poem and then it will be old news to me.

Some poets create their own adjectives, their own phrases that I have never heard before. smithpeter is the one who impressed me most with this. His language sounded odd, unusual. Dennis Mahagin is another one who found completely new ways of saying something.

So keep net

who knows they probably say that here too but your poem was the first time I read it so thanks

Quote:
Originally Posted by butters View Post
Hello again, Anna What accent or dialect is native to you as you read? Mine's London but even other UK accents must change the musicality of certain poems.

That thing about lending 'poemness' to a poem . . . I think that is another thing most of us, if not all, do: a foreign word, a word we're not familiar with, anything that could be conceived as remotely 'exotic' waves a little magic wand over a read. Maybe that's why so many of us find accents so entrancing . . . to expand on that, maybe it's something built into us to encourage perpetuation of the human race by gene-crossing for stronger, healthier offspring! Maybe not, but it sounds semi-logical
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Old 06-09-2013, 12:21 PM   #74
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Thanks for these replies, anna When I find time (and the right space to listen and think!), smithpeter is a poet here whose writes I very much want to immerse myself in. He has such great reviews that it's clear I'd be missing out not reading him.
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Old 06-09-2013, 12:28 PM   #75
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If I may, there's a question I'd like to ask anyone who feels like answering:

when I'm reading poetry (mine or other people's), what I want most of all is to be lost in what the lines create . . . to become a part of the poem, for the words themselves to disappear being replaced by colour/shape/light/texture/movement/emotions. In fewer words, to have an "experience". This is something I'm most keen to work towards creating as I write, though it's a matter of feeling my way. Can anyone tell me if I have come remotely close to this for them as they read something of mine, or do the faults and contrivances get in the way too much for this to happen? Am I any better at getting close to this in my shorter pieces, or does their length have no relevance to this?
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