Why Your Erotic Poem Isn't

[KathrynMartin]

I agree that the erotic is not explicit. It is sneaky, an atmospherical event, sometimes sudden and pointed - never crude.

I like this one, it's old

Paris without choice
bySweetwood©

One night he will stand
Before me and her like
Paris without choice

Silky chocolate shimmering
In the candle light
Tight and taut

I can see my hand
Making cool runs
Over his skin

And her mouth
Blowing shivers
Across his belly

On our way
To lift his aching
Maleness – into bliss

[bogusagain]

The erotic creeps up on you unaware, it is mood, innuendo, observation and it is everywhere but rarely in the mechanics of pelvises grinding together. Reading this thread again made me think of a time (decades ago)I first noticed my cousin was a sexual animal.


you were discussing the shape of your legs
where there should be a gap when closed
the correct ratio of leg to body and yours
how they let you down but were good enough
to attract a man’s wayward eyes

I carried on watching football on TV
while thinking about your legs, how I’d never noticed
how long and shapely they’d become
you just being my younger cousin, from over the Pennines
I’d tease for your silly accent

my sister claims it is a family trait
how hers suffer the same misfortune too
I wrestle with this idea of your legs and hers
how similar anatomy can both attract and repulse
how close can incest get? as close as my cousins legs!

[nonfictional]

I too agree that good erotic poetry is not explicit and has a timelessness about it. Here is one written in the 8th century by Yamabe no Akahito. But it could as well be written today with perhaps just a wee bit less coyness.

I wish I were close
To you as the wet skirt of
A salt girl to her body.
I think of you always.

[twelveoone]

Originally Posted by Tzara

This poem is SeattleRain's nothing like it. The poem is, on the surface, about anal sex, which (at least at Lit) is nothing shocking, given the number of incest and BDSM poems that get posted. It is, perhaps, a bit startlingly confessional and intimate, but again, not all that unusual for Lit.

What is unusual, at least in my experience here, is the tone of the poem. It's a (fairly) explicit poem about a woman wanting to have anal sex and in which she talks to her lover about how she has "stuck a dildo in my ass" and damn if it ends up being kind of sad!

This is kind of like a magic trick. It works because of the absolute honesty of the narrator in talking about her wants and in the distant and, I think, almost kind of bemused, responses of her lover. The coda, where the N washes the dildo she used under the sink / where my children brush their teeth gives the poem a kind of poignancy in how her desires end up repressed through the mismatch of libidos, or interest, or need.

You all may disagree whether this poem is erotic or not. Which is fair, given all our different triggers and such. To me, what makes this poem especially erotic is the glimpse it provides into the psyche and wants of its narrator. What I identify with is the want for something that your/her partner does not share. The poem makes the narrator real to me in a way that your basic Lit dripping pussy/steel-hard cock poem does not.

We've all had sex (those few who have not, you will fairly soon). Retelling the mechanics isn't very interesting. Kind of been there, done that myself.

The emotions behind the act? There you've got me.

You all may disagree whether this poem is erotic or not. Which is fair, given all our different triggers and such.
fair enough, here is the definition
1
: of, devoted to, or tending to arouse sexual love or desire
2
: strongly marked or affected by sexual desire

but in this case, it may be the exact opposite intention, an anti-eroticism, graphic details to generate a sense of estrangement

...running my fingers along
the molded veins, in the cracks
where shit tends to stick

goddamn there is nothing like that smell
shit and soap
and emptiness

I've seen it done a couple of times on lit, WickedEve had a knack for it, there is something else going on

Perhaps a lesson in that...

anyway, bumped, because I spent a week in New Poems

[bronzeage]

You erotic poem isn't because "boner" on "on her" do not really rhyme.

[ishtat]

The first poem I thought of was this - Ode to his Coy Mistress by Andrew Marvell.

http://www.poetryfoundation.org/poem/173954

But is it really erotic? and if so, is it as erotic to women as much as it might be to men?

It is very much the thoughts of a man and although a very fine poem, could it not be seen as merely titillating, or even sleazy, rather than erotic?

[twelveoone]

Originally Posted by ishtat

The first poem I thought of was this - Ode to his Coy Mistress by Andrew Marvell.

http://www.poetryfoundation.org/poem/173954

But is it really erotic? and if so, is it as erotic to women as much as it might be to men?

It is very much the thoughts of a man and although a very fine poem, could it not be seen as merely titillating, or even sleazy, rather than erotic?

yo, yo. give it up
i gots a boner

Originally Posted by bronzeage

You erotic poem isn't because "boner" on "on her" do not really rhyme.

i gots to get onya

how about onya? does that work?

Andrew Marvell, I often wondered if that was his real name or his rap name as in:
Hey, baby, the name is Marvell as in Marvell-us, which is how it would be...

[bronzeage]

I offer my honor, she said.
I honor your offer, he said,
and on her and off her,
all night long.

Author unknown.

[twelveoone]

Originally Posted by Tzara

This poem is SeattleRain's nothing like it. The poem is, on the surface, about anal sex, which (at least at Lit) is nothing shocking, given the number of incest and BDSM poems that get posted. It is, perhaps, a bit startlingly confessional and intimate, but again, not all that unusual for Lit.

What is unusual, at least in my experience here, is the tone of the poem. It's a (fairly) explicit poem about a woman wanting to have anal sex and in which she talks to her lover about how she has "stuck a dildo in my ass" and damn if it ends up being kind of sad!

This is kind of like a magic trick. It works because of the absolute honesty of the narrator in talking about her wants and in the distant and, I think, almost kind of bemused, responses of her lover. The coda, where the N washes the dildo she used under the sink / where my children brush their teeth gives the poem a kind of poignancy in how her desires end up repressed through the mismatch of libidos, or interest, or need.

You all may disagree whether this poem is erotic or not. Which is fair, given all our different triggers and such. To me, what makes this poem especially erotic is the glimpse it provides into the psyche and wants of its narrator. What I identify with is the want for something that your/her partner does not share. The poem makes the narrator real to me in a way that your basic Lit dripping pussy/steel-hard cock poem does not.

We've all had sex (those few who have not, you will fairly soon). Retelling the mechanics isn't very interesting. Kind of been there, done that myself.

The emotions behind the act? There you've got me.

back to this
two things,
how removed in the other voice?
stripped of all graphic detail it boils down to

here I am getting fucked in the ass

I'm fucking myself

and what's not to like
sure as hell beats watchin' soaps or Oprah

doesn't sound like enjoyment

this poem is in a rare class
it is about feeling stupid
and rarer than that
SHAME

[darkmaas]

Originally Posted by twelveoone

back to this
two things,
how removed in the other voice?
stripped of all graphic detail it boils down to

here I am getting fucked in the ass

I'm fucking myself

and what's not to like
sure as hell beats watchin' soaps or Oprah

doesn't sound like enjoyment

this poem is in a rare class
it is about feeling stupid
and rarer than that
SHAME

Sorry to be disagreeable, but you've read stuff there that I don't think the author meant. I see no sense of shame nor stupidity. (She's not Whistler's mother if I may steal a thought from another thread.) You can't strip away the graphic detail. That's where the meaning lies. She's exploring and trying to share. Both honourable activities in our society. She's juxtaposed that with our social taboos relating to shit and sex, but I'm certainly not seeing much SHAME on her part.

Not to worry though, SOAP is invoked so redemption must be just around the corner.

::

[twelveoone]

halos and hellfires
PatCarrington ~ Seattlerain

Only the brightest illumination can
leave the retina burned and black:
sunspotting, staring too hard
at halos or hellfires.

I still see you long after you have gone.

Blinking doesn't help anymore,
or sunglasses, or sleeping
or even painting faces
on the shadow’s silhouette.

I wait for the shape of man
to blend into midnight darkness.

That is when he finds me, empty as a vase.
Waiting.


empty as a vase
is interesting, vasso is almost a spanish cliche for vagina

and here it also refers to an optical illusion, do you see two faces or a vase.

triple play here

the pointer is in the first line, if you look at something bright and look away a reverse colour image appears

Erotic, maybe
Intense yearning, yes

Literotica's loss

[twelveoone]

Originally Posted by darkmaas

Sorry to be disagreeable, but you've read stuff there that I don't think the author meant. I see no sense of shame nor stupidity. (She's not Whistler's mother if I may steal a thought from another thread.) You can't strip away the graphic detail. That's where the meaning lies. She's exploring and trying to share. Both honourable activities in our society. She's juxtaposed that with our social taboos relating to shit and sex, but I'm certainly not seeing much SHAME on her part.

Not to worry though, SOAP is invoked so redemption must be just around the corner.

::

lady mcbeth

[darkmaas]

Originally Posted by twelveoone

lady mcbeth

Interesting but sometimes a bar of soap is just a pleasantly scented if primitive emulsifier.

::

[twelveoone]

Originally Posted by darkmaas

Sorry to be disagreeable, but you've read stuff there that I don't think the author meant. I see no sense of shame nor stupidity. (She's not Whistler's mother if I may steal a thought from another thread.) You can't strip away the graphic detail. That's where the meaning lies. She's exploring and trying to share. Both honourable activities in our society. She's juxtaposed that with our social taboos relating to shit and sex, but I'm certainly not seeing much SHAME on her part.

Not to worry though, SOAP is invoked so redemption must be just around the corner.

::

let's put it this way, if the choice was
stick a dildo up my ass for twenty minutes, or be condemned to watch oprah for eternity, guess what i'm opting for
nothing honourable about that

I just reduced the detail to give you an idea of the juxtapositions she is using, she is an amazing writer, but non linear, these are pretty much standard tactics in her writing style.

Channeling my inner Senna

The sky is prussian blue

Oh shit

[twelveoone]

Originally Posted by darkmaas

Sorry to be disagreeable, but you've read stuff there that I don't think the author meant. I see no sense of shame nor stupidity. (She's not Whistler's mother if I may steal a thought from another thread.) You can't strip away the graphic detail. That's where the meaning lies. She's exploring and trying to share. Both honourable activities in our society. She's juxtaposed that with our social taboos relating to shit and sex, but I'm certainly not seeing much SHAME on her part.

Not to worry though, SOAP is invoked so redemption must be just around the corner.

::

re: Whistler's mother
title is Arrangement in Black and Gray #1 (I think)
when Whistler was asked about, his response was something to the effect of...and yes, and every bit as colorful

[twelveoone]

Originally Posted by darkmaas

Sorry to be disagreeable, but you've read stuff there that I don't think the author meant. I see no sense of shame nor stupidity. (She's not Whistler's mother if I may steal a thought from another thread.) You can't strip away the graphic detail. That's where the meaning lies. She's exploring and trying to share. Both honourable activities in our society. She's juxtaposed that with our social taboos relating to shit and sex, but I'm certainly not seeing much SHAME on her part.

Not to worry though, SOAP is invoked so redemption must be just around the corner.

::

we miss the obvious, perhaps the dildo incident never happened, not that it matters.
she is inducing something, the difference between literature and reportage, and blurred mix.
Lovecraft on one hand
So called "news" on the other

somewhere in between Fox News

[darkmaas]

1201 said:

vasso is almost a spanish cliche for vagina

and from another thread:

"cuse" which is a vulgarism for vagina.

::

Is there a polyglot dictionary "A Thousand and One Ways to Say Vagina"?

::

[twelveoone]

Originally Posted by darkmaas

1201 said:



and from another thread:



::

Is there a polyglot dictionary "A Thousand and One Ways to Say Vagina"?

::

Jade gate is sometimes used that way in China,
you are outing me, you know it
how can I face my gay friends now?

Don't you ever think about ass, man?
Only my own, and then only if it hurts, or if I have to try and save it.

Alright I'm out, I'm straight and a little selfish.

[darkmaas]

Originally Posted by twelveoone

Jade gate is sometimes used that way in China,
you are outing me, you know it
how can I face my gay friends now?

Don't you ever think about ass, man?
Only my own, and then only if it hurts, or if I have to try and save it.

Alright I'm out, I'm straight and a little selfish.

You're implying that anal sex is a gay monopoly. If your wife or girlfriend has never given you a prostate massage, you've been deprived. No need to suffer the boredom of the same ol' missionary rut.

Demand better!

::

[twelveoone]

Originally Posted by darkmaas

You're implying that anal sex is a gay monopoly. If your wife or girlfriend has never given you a prostate massage, you've been deprived. No need to suffer the boredom of the same ol' missionary rut.

Demand better!

::

didn't mean to imply
my personal quirk
no go zone for me

Excessive toilet training? Not enough? Watching my back? It's just one of the things I learned to live with.

[Tzara]

Originally Posted by twelveoone

this poem is in a rare class
it is about feeling stupid
and rarer than that
SHAME

I think dm has pretty well demolished that argument, but let me state clearly that the poem (well, of course, my opinion of the meaning of the poem) is not about shame, or, even less so, about stupidity.

As I tried to state in my original comment (and likely did a very poor job of doing so), it is a poem about sexual longing, and perhaps about the mismatch of sexual needs. The longing is what gives it poignancy, and that is what makes it, boy howdy, a very poignant poem (IMO, of course).

I know. I used the word "poignant" too much in this comment. I don't know what other word to use.

I'll go write on the blackboard "There are other words than 'poignancy' to convey a keen sense of sadness or neglect" one hundred times.

In my best Palmer hand.

[twelveoone]

Originally Posted by Tzara

I think dm has pretty well demolished that argument, but let me state clearly that the poem (well, of course, my opinion of the meaning of the poem) is not about shame, or, even less so, about stupidity.

As I tried to state in my original comment (and likely did a very poor job of doing so), it is a poem about sexual longing, and perhaps about the mismatch of sexual needs. The longing is what gives it poignancy, and that is what makes it, boy howdy, a very poignant poem (IMO, of course).

I know. I used the word "poignant" too much in this comment. I don't know what other word to use.

I'll go write on the blackboard "There are other words than 'poignancy' to convey a keen sense of sadness or neglect" one hundred times.

In my best Palmer hand.

it is a poem about sexual longing, (aside "what's not to like") it may be more of a poem about longing, but her work is also deeper and multilayered, there is something more

too many cross currents here, she was quite capable of merely doing a poem about longing, and she also was quite capable of showing you two things at once, forcing the reader to make the reconciliations,
you and darkmass made one or two reconciliations

DM did not demolish the argument , c'mon if it was just what you think, why the sink scene?

that is a major difference in her style and yours, the links are all lined up.

How would you have ended it? "empty", no, you would have summed it up.

[darkmaas]

Originally Posted by twelveoone

it is a poem about sexual longing, (aside "what's not to like") it may be more of a poem about longing, but her work is also deeper and multilayered, there is something more

too many cross currents here, she was quite capable of merely doing a poem about longing, and she also was quite capable of showing you two things at once, forcing the reader to make the reconciliations,
you and darkmass made one or two reconciliations

DM did not demolish the argument , c'mon if it was just what you think, why the sink scene?

that is a major difference in her style and yours, the links are all lined up.

How would you have ended it? "empty", no, you would have summed it up.

Q1: What's a "sink scene"?

Q2: What are reconciliations?

Q3: How is her style different from Tzara's and, more importantly, why does it matter?

Q4: What does it matter how Tzara might have treated the ending. It's her poem.

Comments: Her work is multi-layered. That's the point. It cannot and, more importantly, should not be analyzed linearly through the narrow prism that anal sex and shit are shameful and therefore the author suffers SHAME.

The "cross currents" are what makes the poem interesting. Are you implying that the poem suffers from it's multiple layers? Didn't think so.

::

[twelveoone]

Originally Posted by darkmaas

Q1: What's a "sink scene"?

Q2: What are reconciliations?

Q3: How is her style different from Tzara's and, more importantly, why does it matter?

Q4: What does it matter how Tzara might have treated the ending. It's her poem.

Comments: Her work is multi-layered. That's the point. It cannot and, more importantly, should not be analyzed linearly through the narrow prism that anal sex and shit are shameful and therefore the author suffers SHAME.

The "cross currents" are what makes the poem interesting. Are you implying that the poem suffers from it's multiple layers? Didn't think so.

::

read the poem

how I held it under the sink
where my children brush their teeth

why is this there?

and I did not do that, you are asking what are know as leading questions and doing some distortion

Q2: What are reconciliations?

an optical illusion sets up a dilemma, you either see the face or the vase, the brain has to do extra processing.

both her poems end in ambiguity, empty means what, the vase is what?

it has to reconcile itself as to the meaning

as for Tzara and you perhaps, there is a different type of processing going on then perhaps me and or Senna Jawa, actually everybody is rather unique. I can "see" certain things that you can't, vice versa. Your point about the "sonnet" was well taken. Some of it is training (specialized or cultural), some natural variation. What you think is funny, I might not. There are blind spots, and people "don't get it". If I say the word "Blue" a different concept or a different colour may be formed in your brain, than what I intended. Tzara's reading of SR's poem met Tzara's expectations, end of processing. I may be a little closer than Tzara, if the fact that I spent something like 6 years studying both her and WickedEve's work. Why? Because it was doing something interesting, I wanted to find out why. Tzara was off doing something else.
Tzara was off studying something else.
Take the time read both poems carefully. Does everything make sense? Now ask yourself, whose mistake, writer or reader? Or mere disconnect.

As for shame, I am not passing judgement on SeattleRain, I am analyzing her work. She was exploring that feeling in the work. That is rare. Endearing. However, for you not to see it, that may be a blind spot.

Am I being clear. Don't overplay the fact that my "ouch" may have been bigger than yours, I allow for that. That is personal preference, do I want to see a "cat" poem, probably not, that is all that is.

Do I think shame is a good thing, damn right, I do. Over in new poems, some of it shameless, I'm talking work ethic here.

[champagne1982]

I think we need to move on to a discussion about "Why Your Erotic Poem Is"

All things being considered here, it has been established that different things turn different people on for different reasons. Now the task becomes one of weeding out the elements of eroticism that turn most people on, most of the time. While a fetish can be arousing to the fetishist, does it not remain the poet's job to present the erotic side of the practice in such a way as to stimulate the non-fetishist sensually?

So, given a challenge of writing an erotic poem about shoes when you find shoes sexually unappealing, could you still produce an arousing work by cloaking the idea with words and techniques that are guaranteed to tickle everyone's hypothalamus? If so, what are these sure-fire wet puddle makers?