"Because it's there."

[thør]

Originally Posted by McKenna

I wondered about that, but those in the video seemed to do OK. Looked like they might have been more used to kayaks though.

There's a definite learning curve. I might rent one from John next summer to play with for a weekend.

[McKenna]

Originally Posted by thør

There's a definite learning curve. I might rent one from John next summer to play with for a weekend.

Take me with you.

[thør]

Originally Posted by McKenna

Take me with you.

I was going to putz on the creek by the cabin.......float and hike out

[McKenna]

Originally Posted by thør

I was going to putz on the creek by the cabin.......float and hike out

Sounds like a wee slice of heaven.

[thør]

Originally Posted by McKenna

Sounds like a wee slice of heaven.

Could be nice. It's a long trudge through the bog to the base of the hill below the cabin.

[thør]

Good ice just south of Bird Point.

[thør]

Lonnie Dupre is coming back to try again on Denali this winter.

Story

[SuprSalor]

Originally Posted by thør

Good ice just south of Bird Point.

`Knowing little of either sport other than the gear used is different, what would be considered more difficult... Technically is the word I'm looking for I think. Climbing the rock face or the ice?

[thør]

Originally Posted by SuprSalor

`Knowing little of either sport other than the gear used is different, what would be considered more difficult... Technically is the word I'm looking for I think. Climbing the rock face or the ice?

It's a cut in the rock made for the railroad. The place is known as Candyland to the local ice climbers.

[thør]

Trailer: Outside the Box - A Female Tale

Women on rock (speaking German).

[Peregrinator]

Originally Posted by SuprSalor

`Knowing little of either sport other than the gear used is different, what would be considered more difficult... Technically is the word I'm looking for I think. Climbing the rock face or the ice?

Either sport can be very challenging or about as difficult as climbing a not-very-steep ladder. It's hard to tell from this distance how difficult the moves on the rock would be--not to mention that it's covered in ice and snow--but the ice looks to be fairly steep, which is how the difficulty is described on ice climbs that are within the ability of us mortals. It's generally graded from 1 to 5, with 1 being so low-angle that most competent mountaineers wouldn't need to use their hands/ice tools at all, or only for balance, and 5 being sustained sections of dead vertical, which is exhausting unless your technique is flawless. Somewhere in the first few pages of this thread I went into more depth on rating systems, I think, if you're interested.

[thør]

Originally Posted by Peregrinator

Either sport can be very challenging or about as difficult as climbing a not-very-steep ladder. It's hard to tell from this distance how difficult the moves on the rock would be--not to mention that it's covered in ice and snow--but the ice looks to be fairly steep, which is how the difficulty is described on ice climbs that are within the ability of us mortals. It's generally graded from 1 to 5, with 1 being so low-angle that most competent mountaineers wouldn't need to use their hands/ice tools at all, or only for balance, and 5 being sustained sections of dead vertical, which is exhausting unless your technique is flawless. Somewhere in the first few pages of this thread I went into more depth on rating systems, I think, if you're interested.

That rock is shit rock. The ice, is good ice.

[thør]

[Peregrinator]

[trysail]

http://www.npr.org/2013/01/23/169522...nd-rescue-bill



Schussing Down Slopes Can Snowball Into A Search-And-Rescue Bill
by Nina Keck
January 23, 2013

Fresh snow lures a lot of people to do some outdoor exploring, but sometimes that exploring can go too far. When snowmobilers or skiers wander off or get in over their heads, many call 911, putting a strain on already underfunded search-and-rescue budgets.

Some states can bill skiers for search-and-rescue efforts. Often, those who need rescuing wandered into out-of-bounds areas and couldn't find their way back.

In Vermont, state police have had to help find 50 lost skiers in the past four weeks.

At the Killington resort in Vermont, snowboarders are checking out an expert run on the summit, watching others hit the white powder. These folks may not be troublemakers, but there are riders who go looking for fun in all the wrong places.

Out Of Safety And Into Harm
Bob Giolito, a former Killington ski patroller who is now part of the state police, points to an unmarked trail into the woods. "It's almost moguled up," he says. "You see all the ski tracks? There's high volume of people coming through here."

Areas like these aren't quite accessible. There's a bright orange rope that a person would have to duck under, and several big signs say "Out of Bonds" and "No Skiing Beyond This Point." Despite all that, Giolito says, an alarming number of ill-equipped skiers keep trekking on.

"I mean, if we look out here, you'll see tracks into that field," he says. "Now, if I'm looking out there, I'm like, 'Wow, that looks like some powder, I'm going to ski that.' So they're going to head downhill. And as they go down, the trees get closer and tighter and tighter, and then they're in a problem."

This part of the ridgeline drops off fast and leads far away from any lifts, so within a few hours, the skiers will be exhausted, cold and in the dark.

What Search-And-Rescue Teams Say
Giolito and Vermont State Police Capt. Donald Patch believe more skier education is needed, but how to accomplish that remains unclear. In the meantime, Patch says, the cost to taxpayers for so many search and rescues is troubling.

"When a trooper is tied up on a lost skier case, that's time when they're not following up on their other investigations," Patch says.

Vermont is one of a handful of states that allow billing for certain rescues. But because Vermont depends on skiing and tourism — and because of safety reasons — billing is controversial and rarely used.

"As search-and-rescuers, we feel very strongly that there should never be any disincentive for somebody to call for help when they need it," says Neil Van Dyke, who heads Stowe Mountain Rescue and is a former president of the Mountain Rescue Association.

Robert Giolito, a former ski patrol member at Killington who is now a Vermont state trooper, heads a local volunteer search-and-rescue team.

He says there have been documented cases in Colorado where people in trouble have put off calling for help because they were afraid of getting billed.

But not everyone agrees with that.

To Bill Or Not To Bill
Kevin Jordan, who helps run New Hampshire's search-and-rescue program, says "when people get in trouble, they don't hesitate to call."

"They call immediately because they are in trouble," he says.

His program — which frequently handles rescues in the White Mountains, an area known for severe weather — has been less squeamish about billing when it finds that those who were rescued have been reckless or negligent.

Jordan says the policy has stirred up debate, but he doesn't think it deters anyone from seeking help — though he admits there isn't a way to prove that.

"What I did notice is when we conduct the mission, as we're getting this person down, our conversation now is generated, 'Am I going to get a bill?' And that's the only difference I've seen," he says. "I've seen no effect on tourism."

But billing isn't ideal, Jordan says. Many people simply can't pay. He says they've collected only about two-thirds of the $83,000 they've billed in the past five years. And that's just a fraction of the roughly $1.5 million New Hampshire spent on all rescues during that time.

'A Very Hot Debate'
"It's a very hot debate in this state because people are very passionate and have very strong feelings about it," Jordan says. "But the problem is that on Monday the bills have to be paid. And when we're not buying equipment and we don't have a training budget and we're sending guys up above tree line in January in 60-below weather, we have a responsibility to ensure their safety — so we're walking a dangerous tightrope."

It's an issue many states are struggling with.

In Wyoming, a state lawmaker pointed out that demand for search and rescue in the state hasn't necessarily increased. But he says more funding is needed because those who need help are taking bigger chances and ending up in more dangerous situations.




http://www.npr.org/2013/01/23/169522...nd-rescue-bill

[Peregrinator]

Originally Posted by trysail

http://www.npr.org/2013/01/23/169522...nd-rescue-bill



Schussing Down Slopes Can Snowball Into A Search-And-Rescue Bill
by Nina Keck
January 23, 2013

There's a hot debate going on right now among those of us who volunteer in NH and VT. A couple bills are under consideration for funding SAR...primarily because the F&G Dept is charged with doing it, but not funded for it. Some folk see the increasing use of F&G officers instead of volunteers as part of the issue. It used to be there's be one "fish cop" in the parking lot and everyone else on a mission was a volunteer from any of the several agencies that are available. Now it's more lie there's a dozen fish cops, all members of their SAR specialty team, and however many of us they need to fill in the gaps. One exception is New England K9 as the fish cops don't have a whole lot of hounds of their own (yet?). Another is the technical climbing gang, the Mountain Rescue Service and Stowe Mountain Rescue and the like, who perpetrate most if not all of the rock, ice, and seriously technically challenging mountain weather rescues.

I think I can safely state that the consensus among those of us who volunteer is that no one except the grossly incompetent or foolish should pay for rescue. Most of us see what we do as a service, a way of giving back to the community of outdoorsy types and people who come here to enjoy the natural areas and ski areas and leave us a lot of money for food and lodging.

Good to know that NPR noticed us again, and that this time it wasn't because someone snuffed it in our mountains.

[Peregrinator]

Must browse:

http://explore.americanalpineclub.or...m_medium=email

[thør]

Some good ice footage in this short youtube vid:

blue obsession

[thør]

Not a climb, but looks like a good trip.

Ducky ride

[sigh]

brrrrr...great photos, guys, but now I've got a chill

I think I'll take a walk and warm up

[sigh]

Originally Posted by Peregrinator

that is just amazing, Perg

thanks

[Peregrinator]

Originally Posted by thør

Some good ice footage in this short youtube vid:

blue obsession

Gorgeous shots indeed.

Originally Posted by thør

Not a climb, but looks like a good trip.

Ducky ride

That looks like a blast! I miss my boat again. Dammit, this year I'm going to paddle a bunch.

Originally Posted by sigh

that is just amazing, Perg

thanks

The Matterhorn...one of the most photogenic geographic features in the world. How fun would it be to climb that bad boy? Wanna go?

[thør]

Don Sheldon, often imitated, never duplicated.

[thør]

[Peregrinator]

Originally Posted by thør

Wow, what a slammin' body. Sweet.