Dissent on Strunk and White

[PennLady]

Found this via a Facebook link today and it's a neat read. I haven't read the whole thing yet, nor have I read "The Elements of Style," but after this, perhaps I won't. And as the author points out, he is not taking issue wit the "style" guidelines, but the grammar advice.

http://chronicle.com/article/50-Year...-Grammar/25497

Excerpt:

The Elements of Style does not deserve the enormous esteem in which it is held by American college graduates. Its advice ranges from limp platitudes to inconsistent nonsense. Its enormous influence has not improved American students' grasp of English grammar; it has significantly degraded it.

[Handley_Page]

As I was reading the piece by the Chronicle, A thought crossed my mind:
Define "Style".

That is not to say 'be grammarily correct'; that should be the overall intention, but we are not supposed to be all identical writers, users or speakers of the English Language. We all differ slightly.
Can we not be slightly different and yet correct ?

[just a thought]

[3113]

Bravo!

I was never the best at spelling or punctuation and I still get it wrong--Shrunk & White didn't help. In fact, it fucked up any trust I had in my grammar. As I writer, I've pretty much had to unlearn all that damn book said (what little I retained from it, like the stupid anti-passive voice shit), and try and re-learn what I intuitively know is right--or learn what is really right that I don't intuitively know.

It was and is the lazy English teacher's way of teaching grammar--let the little white book do all the work for you--and instead of celebrating it, true grammarians and teachers and writers should put an official end to it. Let it never be seen in an English class again.

[sr71plt]

There's no reason that Strunk and White should be esteemed by college graduates. It's meant for the high school level (and not fiction). College graduates should be esteeming Kate Turabian's A Manual for Writers. (which also isn't for commercial fiction).

Styles really are different for the different levels of writing.

[SamScribble]

Trying to set out immutable rules for something as organic as the English language is always going to be fraught with difficulty. All guides to English style and grammar are just that: guides. Make use of the advice that is useful (in situations where it is useful); and ignore the advice that is not.

[TxRad]

Originally Posted by sr71plt

There's no reason that Strunk and White should be esteemed by college graduates. It's meant for the high school level (and not fiction). College graduates should be esteeming Kate Turabian's A Manual for Writers. (which also isn't for commercial fiction).

Styles really are different for the different levels of writing.

Since I have just lately heard of either one of these, I must have gone to high school and college in a time warp or something. Yeah, I know, both schools were in Louisiana and college was on a football scholarship, but....

[sr71plt]

Originally Posted by TxRad

Since I have just lately heard of either one of these, I must have gone to high school and college in a time warp or something. Yeah, I know, both schools were in Louisiana and college was on a football scholarship, but....

I think Louisiana says it all. Did they have English classes?

[TxRad]

Originally Posted by sr71plt

I think Louisiana says it all. Did they have English classes?

Now, now. Back when I went to school there, they had good schools and yes, in North Louisiana they taught English.

[sr71plt]

So, whose blouse were you looking down when they were giving instructing on writing essays?

[TxRad]

Originally Posted by sr71plt

So, whose blouse were you looking down when they were giving instructing on writing essays?

I don't remember exactly but if it was the eleventh grade, it was probably Miss White the English teachers. Really nice sweater puppies on that one.

I remember writing essays but I don't remember a book on style. There was a section in the English book for that year that covered the subject.

That was a long time ago and my memory isn't what it used to be. That is except for sweater puppies. Those I remember clearly.

[sr71plt]

Ah, yes. Miss McCurry in 10th grade English and miniskirts with long, long legs.

[electric1]

None of my English classes introduced me to Strunk and White, either, but I sure found it on my own. A great book for any beginning writer.

[sr71plt]

We were issued it in high school in Northern Virginia. Then again, when I went on to the university I was bucked up out of the basic English classes because I'd actually been taught grammar and how to construct sentences and most of the first-year students hadn't.

[PennLady]

I'm not sure when I first heard of the S&W book but I've never had it, or had to use it, or anything like that. I managed three or six college credits in English via the AP test, and did well in the English courses I took, so I guess it all worked out.

[Loring2]

Originally Posted by TxRad

Now, now. Back when I went to school there, they had good schools and yes, in North Louisiana they taught English.

...And there's at least one school in south Louisiana that's a good school as well and had football scholarships too.

[Ironiclaconic]

I still think the single best style guide is Orwell's Politics and the English Language, even though I often violate its recommendations. What makes it so good is that Orwell gets the point: clarity, precision, beauty, etc. and doesn't simply hand the reader a set of stone tablets brought down from Sinai.

[NekoParks]

Originally Posted by Ironiclaconic

I still think the single best style guide is Orwell's Politics and the English Language, even though I often violate its recommendations. What makes it so good is that Orwell gets the point: clarity, precision, beauty, etc. and doesn't simply hand the reader a set of stone tablets brought down from Sinai.

Most style manuals have strengths and weaknesses-- no style manual can adequately cover all of the points of style in a language as complex as English. What is important is to select a style guide tailored to the particular writing that you are doing. Also, style and grammar are not synonymous terms--grammar is a component of style. Often gifted writers like James Joyce learn the rules of grammar, diction and syntax in order to bend or even break them. As Pilot said earlier in this post, Stunk and White’s intended audience was the high school English student who was writing the five paragraph academic essay. When I was in AP English in high school Strunk and White did help improve my writing. I still I use two of their rules: to omit needless words and limit my use of adverbs. Once I entered college I quickly moved beyond its advice.

[autoplot]

This is nothing new. Shitting on Strunk and White has been the hip thing to do in writerly circles for years now. Spunk & Bite was an entire book devoted to slagging it.

[NekoParks]

Originally Posted by autoplot

This is nothing new. Shitting on Strunk and White has been the hip thing to do in writerly circles for years now. Spunk & Bite was an entire book devoted to slagging it.

True. There was another book published about ten years ago called Adios Strunk and White.