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Old 01-02-2013, 11:50 AM   #1
Aragorn61
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My initial attempt

My first attempt was recently accepted and I would welcome feedback before submitting my next idea.

http://www.literotica.com/s/party-913

Thanks in advance for your comments and advice
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Old 01-03-2013, 10:13 AM   #2
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Hi Aragorn.

I read over your story and I'm kind of stuck. I didn't quite care for it because I don't like BDSM, and I can't comment on the BDSM elements b/c I'm not into that.

I can say that the writing was pretty solid and it seemed paced well. There were some punctuation problems, mostly with dialogue.

You wrote: "Do not speak." He said very quietly

It should be a comma after speak, a lower case h in he, and a period after quietly. You did this throughout the story, and it's just incorrect. Whenever you have a dialogue tag or attribution such as "he said," or "she cried," or whatever, there should be a comma before the close quote, and a lower case pronoun. Even if there is a question mark or exclamation point before the close quote, the pronoun in the dialogue tag should be lower case.

So I hope you get some more feedback, but I hope this has been a little useful.
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Old 01-03-2013, 01:50 PM   #3
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Thanks

As I said, this is my first go and I have never written dialogue before.

Thanks for the help. I am pleased that someone has read it and not been too offended by the quality of writing.

I will follow you and read some of your stories.

Thanks again
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Old 01-03-2013, 04:00 PM   #4
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I was a little thrown by the dominator constantly (well OK several times) saying "please". I also noticed that he called her "darling". That doesn't really ring true.
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Old 01-04-2013, 09:24 AM   #5
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Hi, aragorn and congrats on your first post.

I'm no expert on BDSM though I read the genre here now and then.

PennLady is absolutely right about dialogue. In fact, those irritating speech tags should be minimized. I would suggest googling 'writing dialogue'. There are loads of helpful sites that should help you grasp the basics.

Perhaps it's me, but I'm not a fan of continually switching point of view. One moment you write from her POV then switch abruptly to his. As a reader, I'm not sure through whose eyes I should be seeing the action/emotion.

Again, you don't develop character. As you write it, you don't ask us to empathize with either anonymous character.

You start great by jumping into the action but wouldn't that be a good place to develop 'her', giving the girl a name, personality and conflict by flirting with her 'young friend' without her Master's permission.

You don't reflect the love and emotion between the couple: why is she so enthralled by his dominance? Isn't that the essence of BDSM?

I found some of your language off-putting as sounding archaic. Who uses 'strumpet' or 'harlot' these days and 'you are an abusive and hysterical woman' doesn't gel with his supposed dominance. Also, surely she wants him to 'punish' her, not 'abuse' her.

I got a tad confused at the end about whether she was in her car or in a bedroom. Perhaps I was reading too quickly.

All in all, as PL said, your writing is 'solid' and I offer my thoughts because I reckon you have a great future here.

Just don't let your paragraphs get too long. Eight to ten lines on the lit backlit, rolling screen is about the max. And don't change POV in a paragraph.

Well done and keep writing.

Elle
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Old 01-04-2013, 02:00 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by armistead View Post
I was a little thrown by the dominator constantly (well OK several times) saying "please". I also noticed that he called her "darling". That doesn't really ring true.
Hmm - I am not particularly experienced in BDSM myself, I have explored it a little so I wrote the story as a fantasy and also as a way of trying to make more sense of it. Although she chose to subordinate herself to him, and he accepted this, they clearly enjoyed their respective roles and were excited by them, I imagined also that they were in love. I don't see the two things as being mutually incompatible. So within his dominance of her, there was also great affection and I prefer to believe that relationships such as this have as their essence, mutual respect and fondness, rather than brutality and abuse.

It may be that I am wrong...
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Old 01-04-2013, 02:30 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by Aragorn61 View Post
Hmm - I am not particularly experienced in BDSM myself, I have explored it a little so I wrote the story as a fantasy and also as a way of trying to make more sense of it. Although she chose to subordinate herself to him, and he accepted this, they clearly enjoyed their respective roles and were excited by them, I imagined also that they were in love. I don't see the two things as being mutually incompatible. So within his dominance of her, there was also great affection and I prefer to believe that relationships such as this have as their essence, mutual respect and fondness, rather than brutality and abuse.

It may be that I am wrong...
You aren't wrong. There are many types of BDSM relationships, and just because someone is in a dominant role does not mean that they don't have manners or have respect for the person in the submissive role. Different strokes. . . .
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Old 01-04-2013, 03:55 PM   #8
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I suggest you read up on bdsm relationships. There is play punishment and there is real punishment. One is meant to be enjoyed and one is not. Your story does not seem believable because you have a mix. Is he angry or does he want her to have am orgasm? And nobody talks like that. If he were my master I would laugh him out if the room.
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Old 01-04-2013, 04:22 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saucyminx View Post
You aren't wrong. There are many types of BDSM relationships, and just because someone is in a dominant role does not mean that they don't have manners or have respect for the person in the submissive role. Different strokes. . . .
This is what I have heard and read on the boards here, that a BDSM relationship is about trust and caring. To me, it's more about two (or more, I suppose) people understanding what they want in a sexual relationship, being able to give that to each other and respecting both the person and the desire.

I get the impression a lot of people think that it's simply one person who wants to be told what to do, or humiliated, or whatever. I imagine those can play a part in the relationship, but they aren't the whole thing (and if they are, that doesn't sound like a healthy thing).

I have to agree with elfin that your characters are too generic and undeveloped. I think, again, that a lot of people aim for a stroke story and focus on the sex to the exclusion of the character or their relationship and while that's fine for some readers, it won't be enough for others.

As for the things like "please" in the story, they didn't bother me. Perhaps b/c I can see them being used in... not exactly a sarcastic way, but in the sense that he is being polite on the surface, but she knows he is not asking. She knows it's a command, not a request. Then again, I have no experienced with BDSM relationships except the little I've read, and I don't trust most of that.
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Old 01-05-2013, 10:33 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aragorn61 View Post
Hmm - I am not particularly experienced in BDSM myself, I have explored it a little so I wrote the story as a fantasy and also as a way of trying to make more sense of it. Although she chose to subordinate herself to him, and he accepted this, they clearly enjoyed their respective roles and were excited by them, I imagined also that they were in love. I don't see the two things as being mutually incompatible. So within his dominance of her, there was also great affection and I prefer to believe that relationships such as this have as their essence, mutual respect and fondness, rather than brutality and abuse.
It may be that I am wrong...
No, I think you are absolutely right. Also, from what I have read, I think BDSM relationships seem to require far greater commitment, devotion and trust than other couplings. 'Master' is very protective of 'his pet' and, when not 'playing' is still devoted. The only thing I have noticed, and not understood, is that often the master/sub relationship is not a 24/7 coupling but a kind of dating.

I think, with little experience, that BDSM stories are best written in first person POV to let the sub express her emotions -love,fear, pleasure, devotion - and regret any digression that displeases her Master. As I said, I think you could develop the opening encounter to some angst on her part that she is letting her Master down.

Just my 2.
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Old 01-05-2013, 10:54 AM   #11
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There are couples who only do "scenes" and there are couples who are M/s full time. I've seen where the part time couples are just friends and not in a committed relationship. When they play, though, the sub has to trust the dom and he is very caring. He definitely wouldn't send her away without aftercare (hugs and kisses) like in the story. Humiliation and degradation can be a part of it, but the start and end of a scene are usually pretty tender and lovey-dovey.

I'm repeating myself, but your story was very confusing because she was upset and afraid, but at the same time she's begging him to punish her and is ready to have an orgasm. If you made it so he was just pretending to be angry with her and had purposefully left her downstairs, then it would work that they are both enjoying themselves. Otherwise he is really mad but giving her exactly what she wants, which makes her the dom and him the sub.
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Old 01-05-2013, 12:54 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by chocolatecookie3 View Post
I suggest you read up on bdsm relationships. There is play punishment and there is real punishment. One is meant to be enjoyed and one is not. Your story does not seem believable because you have a mix. Is he angry or does he want her to have am orgasm? And nobody talks like that. If he were my master I would laugh him out if the room.
I would have thought that it was fairly clear that this was not fierce punishment, it is delivered with far too much concern for her well being. He isn't really angry, he just enjoys being angry with her and my guess is that it is not as you suggest, as with other relationships there will be a whole spectrum of activity and severity.

They do you know, there are many hundreds of thousands of middle aged, upper middle class professional English guys who talk exactly like that....lawyers, accountants, parlimentarians the Civil Service.....anywhere where you find public school educated middle aged blokes. He is older than her, wealthy.....that is exacly how they behave...I bet the BBC is full of them
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Old 01-05-2013, 01:03 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by Aragorn61 View Post
I would have thought that it was fairly clear that this was not fierce punishment, it is delivered with far too much concern for her well being. He isn't really angry, he just enjoys being angry with her and my guess is that it is not as you suggest, as with other relationships there will be a whole spectrum of activity and severity.

They do you know, there are many hundreds of thousands of middle aged, upper middle class professional English guys who talk exactly like that....lawyers, accountants, parlimentarians the Civil Service.....anywhere where you find public school educated middle aged blokes. He is older than her, wealthy.....that is exacly how they behave...I bet the BBC is full of them
Well, I am a black lower class American, so I would not speak that way. You have my opinion, and you could post in the bdsm group to see what they think.
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Old 01-05-2013, 01:14 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by elfin_odalisque View Post
Hi, aragorn and congrats on your first post.

I'm no expert on BDSM though I read the genre here now and then.

PennLady is absolutely right about dialogue. In fact, those irritating speech tags should be minimized. I would suggest googling 'writing dialogue'. There are loads of helpful sites that should help you grasp the basics.

Perhaps it's me, but I'm not a fan of continually switching point of view. One moment you write from her POV then switch abruptly to his. As a reader, I'm not sure through whose eyes I should be seeing the action/emotion.

Again, you don't develop character. As you write it, you don't ask us to empathize with either anonymous character.

You start great by jumping into the action but wouldn't that be a good place to develop 'her', giving the girl a name, personality and conflict by flirting with her 'young friend' without her Master's permission.

You don't reflect the love and emotion between the couple: why is she so enthralled by his dominance? Isn't that the essence of BDSM?

I found some of your language off-putting as sounding archaic. Who uses 'strumpet' or 'harlot' these days and 'you are an abusive and hysterical woman' doesn't gel with his supposed dominance. Also, surely she wants him to 'punish' her, not 'abuse' her.

I got a tad confused at the end about whether she was in her car or in a bedroom. Perhaps I was reading too quickly.

All in all, as PL said, your writing is 'solid' and I offer my thoughts because I reckon you have a great future here.

Just don't let your paragraphs get too long. Eight to ten lines on the lit backlit, rolling screen is about the max. And don't change POV in a paragraph.

Well done and keep writing.

Elle
Thanks

I take the point about the dialogue, i will have to take more care with this.

I am not sure what the essence of BDSM is but I have often thought that for the Sub there is an erotic buz in handing over control and I quite enjoy being in charge myself so I get that side of it!

I deliberately left the characters anonymous, only dealing with their reaction to events as they occurred, that was clearly a mistake. I must think about this.

At the moment I am reading a book where there is a central character and all events and perceptions are from this character's view - he describes each scenario and character and you only get his evaluations, opinions and reactions to whatever is going on. I think, to be honest, that this is rather off putting and limiting. I prefer to get each character's take on things.

I have always supposed that verbal "abuse" was as important as physical punishment in the control shift.....sound like I will have to do a bit of BDSM reading....I'll enjoy that I think....nice bit of research
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Old 01-05-2013, 01:52 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Aragorn61 View Post
Thanks

I take the point about the dialogue, i will have to take more care with this.

I am not sure what the essence of BDSM is but I have often thought that for the Sub there is an erotic buz in handing over control and I quite enjoy being in charge myself so I get that side of it!

I deliberately left the characters anonymous, only dealing with their reaction to events as they occurred, that was clearly a mistake. I must think about this.

At the moment I am reading a book where there is a central character and all events and perceptions are from this character's view - he describes each scenario and character and you only get his evaluations, opinions and reactions to whatever is going on. I think, to be honest, that this is rather off putting and limiting. I prefer to get each character's take on things.

I have always supposed that verbal "abuse" was as important as physical punishment in the control shift.....sound like I will have to do a bit of BDSM reading....I'll enjoy that I think....nice bit of research
For what it's worth, I don't agree at all that you need to either name or develop the characters or provide any background on the characters in a story such as this. The phenomenon of giving up that much control and wanting the discipline is what is essential to the story, and I think you were quite correct in sublimating the characters' individual identity to that. I think that's one of the strong aspects of the story--that it's about the fetish, not the characters.

What was most notable to me on the mechanics is the lack of commas setting off direct address, e.g., "Sock it to me, Master." When it's addressing someone, the name is set off with commas.
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Old 01-05-2013, 02:56 PM   #16
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I was a little thrown by the dominator constantly (well OK several times) saying "please". I also noticed that he called her "darling". That doesn't really ring true.
Ditto. Neither fit. At least, I never heard please.
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Old 01-05-2013, 03:06 PM   #17
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Ditto. Neither fit. At least, I never heard please.
They don't have to be good at it--or to follow anyone else's rules in mutually getting off from playing at it.
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Old 01-05-2013, 03:09 PM   #18
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They don't have to be good at it--or to follow anyone else's rules in mutually getting off from playing at it.
I don't believe I said they had to follow anyone else's rules.
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Old 01-05-2013, 03:24 PM   #19
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You agreed that he wouldn't be using the word "please." That he wouldn't is being asserted as some sort of rule for the BDSM fetish. I see quite a bit dancing on the edge here as what can be written as BDSM and what can't.
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Old 01-05-2013, 03:45 PM   #20
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You agreed that he wouldn't be using the word "please." That he wouldn't is being asserted as some sort of rule for the BDSM fetish. I see quite a bit dancing on the edge here as what can be written as BDSM and what can't.
I agreed to the following post:

Quote:
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I was a little thrown by the dominator constantly (well OK several times) saying "please". I also noticed that he called her "darling". That doesn't really ring true.
Nowhere did I say he wouldn't be using it, just that the words didn't fit, which I based on my BDSM experience.
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Old 01-05-2013, 05:54 PM   #21
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I agreed to the following post:



Nowhere did I say he wouldn't be using it, just that the words didn't fit, which I based on my BDSM experience.
Which is an ipso facto assertion that there are standards/rules involved in writing BDSM.
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Old 01-05-2013, 06:56 PM   #22
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Which is an ipso facto assertion that there are standards/rules involved in writing BDSM.


If I wanted to say something about standards/rules in writing BDSM, I would have. However, the OP asked for comments and advice. I commented. A comment expresses an opinion. I gave my opinion.
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Old 01-07-2013, 12:02 PM   #23
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For what it's worth, I don't agree at all that you need to either name or develop the characters or provide any background on the characters in a story such as this. The phenomenon of giving up that much control and wanting the discipline is what is essential to the story, and I think you were quite correct in sublimating the characters' individual identity to that. I think that's one of the strong aspects of the story--that it's about the fetish, not the characters.

What was most notable to me on the mechanics is the lack of commas setting off direct address, e.g., "Sock it to me, Master." When it's addressing someone, the name is set off with commas.
Thank you.......that is initially what I thought, I didn't think there was any need to explain the characters, it was fairly clear what the conection was between the two and I am quite proud of the manner in which it was introduced
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Old 01-07-2013, 12:05 PM   #24
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You agreed that he wouldn't be using the word "please." That he wouldn't is being asserted as some sort of rule for the BDSM fetish. I see quite a bit dancing on the edge here as what can be written as BDSM and what can't.
What do you mean by "dancing on the edge" - does it matter? is classification an important issue?
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Old 01-07-2013, 12:21 PM   #25
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This is what I have heard and read on the boards here, that a BDSM relationship is about trust and caring. To me, it's more about two (or more, I suppose) people understanding what they want in a sexual relationship, being able to give that to each other and respecting both the person and the desire.

I get the impression a lot of people think that it's simply one person who wants to be told what to do, or humiliated, or whatever. I imagine those can play a part in the relationship, but they aren't the whole thing (and if they are, that doesn't sound like a healthy thing).

I have to agree with elfin that your characters are too generic and undeveloped. I think, again, that a lot of people aim for a stroke story and focus on the sex to the exclusion of the character or their relationship and while that's fine for some readers, it won't be enough for others.

As for the things like "please" in the story, they didn't bother me. Perhaps b/c I can see them being used in... not exactly a sarcastic way, but in the sense that he is being polite on the surface, but she knows he is not asking. She knows it's a command, not a request. Then again, I have no experienced with BDSM relationships except the little I've read, and I don't trust most of that.
I don't really go in much for labels BDSM, DOM SUB etc. Intellectually, the whole subject of control, and that some of us prefer to hand over control and others accept it is very powerful and erotic.

We have all had a fairly scarey boss (of either gender) who politely made requests for us to do things using "please" and "thank you" and "if you have time" and you know very well that these are instructions rather than requests and that the wrath of hell is coming to you if you ignore the request So it is the manner and the authority rather than the language that is important.

I do love the idea of a stroke story....now that makes me smile, and certainly I did focus on the sex and ignore the characters, and if it created any stroking then.....great
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