U.S. politics isolation tank

[Netzach]

Originally Posted by rosco rathbone

Men need a way to refer to each other contemptuously as they jostle for position in the hierarchy. There are some good non-gender objurgations available, such as "shitheel"...."schweinehund"...."spunkbubble"..."mouth breather"...."clown school" etc. The problem is that none of these carry the same sting as words of contempt which compare the subject to women and gays.

What is needed is a way to convey the message: "you have utterly failed to live up to the code of masculine conduct" which does not refer to the above. The referent doesn't really matter so much, it's the tone of delivery.

I love FAIL. FAIL AT. It can carry so much contempt.

[Stella_Omega]

Originally Posted by Netzach

I love FAIL. FAIL AT. It can carry so much contempt.

*practicing it right now.*

I got a whole lot of contempt to express these days.

[Sir_Winston54]

Senators to 'Zero Dark Thirty' studio: Tell the truth on torture

Three leading U.S. senators decided to play movie critics today, urging the studio behind "Zero Dark Thirty" to make clear that torture didn't lead to Osama bin Laden.

As I wrote last week about this controversy, some who have seen the award-winning movie, which opened in Los Angeles and New York today and opens nationwide Jan. 11, say it leaves the impression that waterboarding of a detainee uncovered the name of bin Laden's courier, who eventually led the CIA to the al-Qaida leader's hideout in Pakistan.

They now include Sen. John McCain of Arizona, who along with Sen. Dianne Feinstein of California and Carl Levin of Michigan sent the unusual letter to the CEO of Sony Pictures Entertainment.

Based on their review of still-secret CIA documents, they write that the film is "grossly inaccurate" and that Sony has an obligation to tell moviegoers that the role of torture "is not based on the facts, but rather part of the film's fictional narrative."

The letter goes on to say, "We are fans of many of your movies, and we understand the special role that movies play in our lives, but the fundamental problem is that people who see 'Zero Dark Thirty' will believe that the events it portrays are facts. The film therefore has the potential to shape American public opinion in a disturbing and misleading manner.

"The use of torture in the fight against terrorism did severe damage to America's values and standing that cannot be justified or expunged. It remains a stain on our national conscience. We cannot afford to go back to these dark times, and with the release of Zero Dark Thirty, the filmmakers and your production studio are perpetuating the myth that torture is effective. You have a social and moral obligation to get the facts right."

REALLY? REALLY? U.S. politicians have the unmitigated gall to tell movie-makers that they "have a social and moral obligation to get the facts right?"

:headdesk: :facepalm: All that kinda stuff.

When THEY "get the facts right" in their campaign speeches and speeches on the floor of Congress (and in their carefully-orchestrated leaks to the press), they MIGHT have a right to tell other to do so. Until then, they need to STFU.

The above is the whole article, but it's linked through the headline (as usual) so readers can go to the SacBee and read what else they might like.

[Stella_Omega]

yes, those three US politicians have managed to be relatively truthful through much of their careers. Even McCain, as weird as he is.

And I agree with those letters.

[Sir_Winston54]

U.S Marine pens scathing letter to Sen. Feinstein over gun control

An excerpt:

I am not your subject. I am the man who keeps you free. I am not your servant. I am the person whom you serve. I am not your peasant. I am the flesh and blood of America.

I will not be disarmed to suit the fear that has been established by the media and your misinformation campaign against the American public.

Read the whole letter, and the article in which it appears, through the link embedded in the headline above.

[Stella_Omega]

Originally Posted by Sir_Winston54

U.S Marine pens scathing letter to Sen. Feinstein over gun control

An excerpt:

I am not your subject. I am the man who keeps you free. I am not your servant. I am the person whom you serve. I am not your peasant. I am the flesh and blood of America.

I will not be disarmed to suit the fear that has been established by the media and your misinformation campaign against the American public.

Read the whole letter, and the article in which it appears, through the link embedded in the headline above.

He really thinks he's been keeping America free? he's a gullible fool with his entire id invested in the lie-- and I don't blame him for that, but all the same, he's a guy I don't want to live next door to.

I don't trust his judgement as to when he should pull those guns of his out of his totally legal gun safe.

[Netzach]

I am absolutely in favor of people's right to own, but the fact that you supposedly have to register your car has made none of these whack job asses upset in the least.

[BiBunny]

I don't see what the big deal is on registration. Even here in the land of the perpetual guns, we have to register any pistols/handguns that are going to be carried (which is most all of them), and "carry" includes pistols/handguns in your car or anywhere else that isn't your personal private property.

On the other hand, long guns aren't required to be registered, and I don't know that that matters either way. I would be annoyed if I had to go and register the shotgun that literally never leaves my bedroom, but I'd look at it as a minor inconvenience rather than the end of the goddamn world, like some of these people seem to.

[Netzach]

Originally Posted by BiBunny

I don't see what the big deal is on registration. Even here in the land of the perpetual guns, we have to register any pistols/handguns that are going to be carried (which is most all of them), and "carry" includes pistols/handguns in your car or anywhere else that isn't your personal private property.

On the other hand, long guns aren't required to be registered, and I don't know that that matters either way. I would be annoyed if I had to go and register the shotgun that literally never leaves my bedroom, but I'd look at it as a minor inconvenience rather than the end of the goddamn world, like some of these people seem to.

Herein the line between batshit crazy and not. And these are the people I WANT ARMED. not.

Unlike a lot of my true liberal "guns are evil" friends I absolutely want a woman who wants to have a shotgun in her possession to be able to have one. It's completely fine with me, but I didn't grow up with a doorman building.

OK these people are soooo worried about the government going Hitler right? The government has motherfucking drones. I don't care how much you stockpile your ammo, you are going to be fucked fucked fucked with the rest of us, so siddown and shut up while we figure out what to do about the bloodbath we seem to enjoy unlike the rest of the civilized world when someone's brain breaks down.

It's time to have a grown up discussion about unpleasant things like, guns, involuntary commitments, mental health, stress, and education. Everyone needs to put something up on the table and actually listen.

[Stella_Omega]

Unlike a lot of my true liberal "guns are evil" friends I absolutely want a woman who wants to have a shotgun in her possession to be able to have one

i do too-- but she's gotta pinky-swear to keep it out of the hands of whichever family member is batshit.

People who want to ban all guns are not actually liberals, you know. They are left wing totalitarians, in a double mobius reach-around that leaves them further right than the right wing-- which has its own sets of reacharounds, after all.

[midwestyankee]

Originally Posted by Netzach

he civilized world when someone's brain breaks down.

It's time to have a grown up discussion about unpleasant things like, guns, involuntary commitments, mental health, stress, and education. Everyone needs to put something up on the table and actually listen.

Something else to add to the discussion list: the fetishization of the military and all things military. It's why guns like the AR-15 are more popular than sex and why a Marine with an IQ of 73 becomes a national hero when he brings out his sharpest crayons to write an illiterate letter to a member of Congress.

[BiBunny]

Originally Posted by Netzach

It's time to have a grown up discussion about unpleasant things like, guns, involuntary commitments, mental health, stress, and education. Everyone needs to put something up on the table and actually listen.

Heaven forbid.

Originally Posted by Stella_Omega

i do too-- but she's gotta pinky-swear to keep it out of the hands of whichever family member is batshit.

What if I'm the batshit family member?

[Netzach]

Originally Posted by Stella_Omega

i do too-- but she's gotta pinky-swear to keep it out of the hands of whichever family member is batshit.

Safety training, demystification, child locks, all that crazy "coming to take them away" shit.

[Netzach]

Originally Posted by midwestyankee

Something else to add to the discussion list: the fetishization of the military and all things military. It's why guns like the AR-15 are more popular than sex and why a Marine with an IQ of 73 becomes a national hero when he brings out his sharpest crayons to write an illiterate letter to a member of Congress.

Is that it? Is it also having an all volunteer underclass army to do everyone's dirty work, so that you have a giant underclass that finds its only value, the only time it's respected even with lip service is thru the institution?

You know, it's not like "deeper critical thinking skills" are part of the package in a huge way. But when middle class kids are part of it and everyone better pray his (and it should be her too) number is good, it's not the ONLY path to respect.

Guys have guns and girls have babies as the only ways to feel powerful.

[Stella_Omega]

Originally Posted by BiBunny

Heaven forbid.



What if I'm the batshit family member?

Someone else should have the gun.

[Netzach]

Gun control freaks me out less than the fact that I'm left questioning whether I'm truly as anti-involuntary commitment EV-ER as I want to be.

Prison and the street should not be the only places to go when you're at the bottom.

BUT there's "should" and then there's reality, and that's when you get Willowbrook.

[Netzach]

It's funny, I live in the second state to go concealed carry after TX, and we were all supposed to go crazy and cowboy and everyone was gonna die OR everyone was going to end crime and morph into Clint Eastwood, depending on whose rhetoric you believe. Hey, I'm a liberal, I thought we were all going to go off the deep end. And then, nothing happened.

I don't have data, but I believe the net effects to amount to jack approximately in regard to Twin Cities deaths by gun. How much death-by-gun is OK and what are you willing to live with, I don't know, but the concealed carry doesn't seem to enter into it.

I want the sane science/stats geeks to do this one, I want a Nate Silver of violent death who just doesn't care that much about pro/con. I've yet to see a sampling I think I can trust on this topic. You pretty much see that everyone is coming from somewhere.

I think it's really rare to encounter anyone who's as cynically on the fence as I am. Yeah people kill people, but you're still an idiot, sir.

[midwestyankee]

Originally Posted by Netzach

Is that it? Is it also having an all volunteer underclass army to do everyone's dirty work, so that you have a giant underclass that finds its only value, the only time it's respected even with lip service is thru the institution?

You know, it's not like "deeper critical thinking skills" are part of the package in a huge way. But when middle class kids are part of it and everyone better pray his (and it should be her too) number is good, it's not the ONLY path to respect.

Guys have guns and girls have babies as the only ways to feel powerful.

I wonder if some of the fetishization comes from a sense of guilt. We middle class folk know that our sons and daughters are, for the most part, exempt from the toil and risk of military service unless they choose it. Thus, out of guilt, we over-glorify the service of those who do and make it an act of super-patriotism to "support the troops." Certainly another factor is the "I'm a conservative patriot and you're still protesting the Viet Nam war" attitude that seems to have some incredible, Velveeta-like shelf life.

[midwestyankee]

Originally Posted by Netzach

It's funny, I live in the second state to go concealed carry after TX, and we were all supposed to go crazy and cowboy and everyone was gonna die OR everyone was going to end crime and morph into Clint Eastwood, depending on whose rhetoric you believe. Hey, I'm a liberal, I thought we were all going to go off the deep end. And then, nothing happened.

I don't have data, but I believe the net effects to amount to jack approximately in regard to Twin Cities deaths by gun. How much death-by-gun is OK and what are you willing to live with, I don't know, but the concealed carry doesn't seem to enter into it.

I want the sane science/stats geeks to do this one, I want a Nate Silver of violent death who just doesn't care that much about pro/con. I've yet to see a sampling I think I can trust on this topic. You pretty much see that everyone is coming from somewhere.

I think it's really rare to encounter anyone who's as cynically on the fence as I am. Yeah people kill people, but you're still an idiot, sir.

It's not precisely germane to your question, but Kevin Drum of Mother Jones did an exhaustive reporting job on the relationship between levels of environmental lead and crime. Here's the original article and here's a follow-up that responds to a couple of criticisms of the original reporting. The essential point is that the decrease in violent crime that has occurred around the country over the last few decades correlates in a scary-clean way with decreases in levels of environmental lead from car exhaust as well as levels of lead in paint used in homes.

[BiBunny]

Two points, completely unrelated to one another:

1.) Still think we need to make a gun/mental health/other social BS thread.

2.) Something I thought was interesting--while I was at my parents' for Christmas, my father and I started talking about health insurance reforms stuff. I would like to point out here that Daddy fits in the older, blue-collar white man from a rural area demographic for the most part, with the exception that he, you know, reads and has common sense.

Neither of us are particularly thrilled about it. I was making my usual socialist spiel about how nothing short of universal health care was really going to solve the problems this country has. This is where you'd think that the older, blue-collar white man from a rural area would cut in with the usual Republican bullshit, right?

Nope.

"I wouldn't mind paying higher taxes if I were getting something like health insurance out of it," he said. "I have to pay for insurance either way. They take the cost of my own (private) insurance out of my check every week, anyway, and then I pay taxes on top of that, which helps pay for Medicare and Medicaid for other people, so what'd be the difference?"

Common sense, folks. Common freaking sense. The demand for it is SO much higher than the supply.

[Netzach]

Originally Posted by midwestyankee

It's not precisely germane to your question, but Kevin Drum of Mother Jones did an exhaustive reporting job on the relationship between levels of environmental lead and crime. Here's the original article and here's a follow-up that responds to a couple of criticisms of the original reporting. The essential point is that the decrease in violent crime that has occurred around the country over the last few decades correlates in a scary-clean way with decreases in levels of environmental lead from car exhaust as well as levels of lead in paint used in homes.

THAT is freaking interesting! See what happens if we do some science? Sadly this will be more or less ignored.

[Netzach]

Originally Posted by BiBunny

Two points, completely unrelated to one another:

1.) Still think we need to make a gun/mental health/other social BS thread.

2.) Something I thought was interesting--while I was at my parents' for Christmas, my father and I started talking about health insurance reforms stuff. I would like to point out here that Daddy fits in the older, blue-collar white man from a rural area demographic for the most part, with the exception that he, you know, reads and has common sense.

Neither of us are particularly thrilled about it. I was making my usual socialist spiel about how nothing short of universal health care was really going to solve the problems this country has. This is where you'd think that the older, blue-collar white man from a rural area would cut in with the usual Republican bullshit, right?

Nope.

"I wouldn't mind paying higher taxes if I were getting something like health insurance out of it," he said. "I have to pay for insurance either way. They take the cost of my own (private) insurance out of my check every week, anyway, and then I pay taxes on top of that, which helps pay for Medicare and Medicaid for other people, so what'd be the difference?"

Common sense, folks. Common freaking sense. The demand for it is SO much higher than the supply.

There are a lot of people like your dad, especially out here, on this one. No one's putting a mic in front of them because it's not raising blood pressures to do it. People act like the election was decided by magic.

[Ahlam]

I wish I better understood the correlation (or idea of one) between veterans and guns. I'm a veteran myself and I feel safer not owning a firearm. I would be happy never to see one again in my life.

[Homburg]

I am for universal healthcare, especially mental health care.

I am for equal rights, be it women, LGBTQ, etc, including marriage.

I am for the decriminalization of drugs.

I am pro-choice

I am for prison reform.

I am also pro-2A.

The first is simply a matter of economics, while the rest are a matter of not wanting to unduly restrict or hamper myself or my fellow humans.

And, interestingly, I was told that I am probably an anarchist. I have trouble imagining this, as I consider anarchy to be an utterly unsustainable ideal at this stage in human evolution. I should probably look into anarchism in the modern day...

ETA: Nope. Anarchism of today is still all too similar with anarchism of the last time I checked in on it. I'll stick with terms like "classical liberal".

[Netzach]

Originally Posted by Homburg

I am for universal healthcare, especially mental health care.

I am for equal rights, be it women, LGBTQ, etc, including marriage.

I am for the decriminalization of drugs.

I am pro-choice

I am for prison reform.

I am also pro-2A.

The first is simply a matter of economics, while the rest are a matter of not wanting to unduly restrict or hamper myself or my fellow humans.

And, interestingly, I was told that I am probably an anarchist. I have trouble imagining this, as I consider anarchy to be an utterly unsustainable ideal at this stage in human evolution. I should probably look into anarchism in the modern day...

ETA: Nope. Anarchism of today is still all too similar with anarchism of the last time I checked in on it. I'll stick with terms like "classical liberal".

I consider myself to be pro 2A also, but being in favor of does not, for me, mean eternal unfettered no matter what on demand with no organization just show up at the gun show truck and buy it up "pro."

People like me have no political home. The NRA are a bunch of yahoos and the regulation freaks tend to grow up in 'hoods where police show when you call. They believe that the possibility of armed confrontation is remote and impossible and something other people must deal with, preferably the same way they would.

I will sound a heartfelt fuck off to anyone who believes that a person who decides to carry after having a gun shoved in their face is not entitled to the decision. However, I also think that there should be strict and MANDATORY training, at which time psychological disqualifiers are considered. Just like with cars. Onerous? Yes. Oh well. Not too terribly.