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Old 01-01-2013, 04:10 AM   #51
satindesire
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lmao Satin,
thats one of the best smackdowns i've seen, Bravo

encore encore

still lmfao

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I think the word misogynist gets thrown around way too much in these parts, but in this case it's definitely apt. Nice work Satindesire.
My opinion is this. I can be a pretty chill chick.

But sometimes...sometimes the only way to shut up a cunt is to be a badder cunt than they could ever hope to be.
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Old 01-01-2013, 04:38 AM   #52
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As much as it sucked to read that, you are right. I went back through and read the thread, paying attention to my posts and the ones I quoted, and you're absolutely right. I only offered ways that it wouldn't work, ie excuses. You're right, I can't change him, I can only change myself, and hope he responds positively to those changes.
So, I'm going to go back through, read the responses again, and figure out a way to incorporate some of them into my life. I'm not ready to give up, but there is no point in asking for advice if I'm just going to shoot down every suggestion given.
Happy to hear this as I thought the same as blulilacgrl. Think in terms of what you can do... think about the suggestions a few day or so, do some processing of things, figure it out, think: solutions not excuses. I got an excuse for everything, too, if I need one... but my problems are never solved by those excuses. He's gotta be willing to participate also... sounds like that might be a challenge, right there... You mentioned he won't do counseling... consider it still, for yourself. My communication skills... talking, understanding, listening skills are 100% better than before I saw a therapist. My motto is "figure it out... together... or forget it." But if he won't go with you, maybe go by yourself. A therapist could help you figure out what you need, want, what works, what doesn't, how ways of thinking can sometimes be skewed & mess you up.
Here's a thought: I trust you aren't referring to him as having always "been just the manager" in his presence... or the kids' presence. That'd be kind of a big turnoff for him, I'd imagine.
To express my opinions specifically... concerning a certain poster on here, well, I just don't have the time so I'll say this: I know a lot of people. It's funny, in a twilight zone style, though, that just about every guy I've ever known named Rick... was a dick. Some things never change.
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Old 01-01-2013, 11:01 AM   #53
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You have no clue how men think. This guy sits down to relax, and watch some football. Here comes wifey... She wants to talk but doesn't say anything. Instead she sits down and watches the game with him. One of his boys texts him probably about the game..... And she has had it. What kind of bullshit advice are you giving this woman. I'm sorry if your vagina blinds you to the facts. The facts are clear as day. A woman who suffered from pmdd. Which means she probably has other issues like bipolar or depression issues. A bunch of little kids running around, and a husband that goes to work and provides for his family. This woman is dilusional and so are you. Every problem they have starts and ends with her. Like I said, build him up. Praise him
Yeah, that is right, wifey is all female hormoned up, and doesn't know how sacred men think, the guy works hard, etc, so everything falls on her. This is promise keeper/Southern Baptist bullshit at its best, that the man rules the roost, that his feelings are paramount and so forth. It is one thing to tell someone they need to understand how men feel, it is another to blame everything on her, that a man's home is his castle, etc......

Anyone wanna lay odds this guy is single, or if is married, has one of those marriages not exactly going to go down in the hall of fame...
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Old 01-01-2013, 11:14 AM   #54
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Another dilusional statement. Just because he didn't have the kids in bed while she took a ten minute shower doesn't make him a lazy ass. As a father, I would kill to be able to stay home with my kids everyday. It would be much easier and more fulfilling than going to work everyday. As a man I don't have that choice. She needs to appreciate the good fortune her husband has provided for her, and stop being a whining nagging ungrateful wife
As someone who goes to work every day, who puts in long hours, probably a lot longer then you do, who often comes home and has to work, work on the weekends from home, and has a long commute, I can tell you that I would have loved to spend more time with my child, to share in things, but your statement is complete arrogant twaddle. Quite frankly, you are a classic jerk and if you are married, I feel sorry for your wife.

I hate to tell you, but staying at home and taking care of the kids and the house like that and doing school and such is not easy, it seems easy because you see only the little bit when you are home. Take it from me, a mom with small kids at home is not leading the life of luxury, or sitting on her ass watching soap operas, she is constantly on her feet, taking care of housework, feeding the kids, keeping them amused (sorry, plopping a kid in front of the tv or watching videos is not paying attention to them), cleaning them up when they do the inevitable, and so forth. You want proof? Give your wife the weekend off and you do what she does during the day, then come back to me.

And as the working spouse any time I wasn't working I tried to spend with my kid, I enjoyed spending time with him, putting him to bed, I spent a lot of time singing myself horse, or carrying him around until he fell to sleep (and he was difficult, he didnt like to sleep). I also realized my wife needed downtime and tried to make time for her, and for us.

It isn't easy, but your idea of marriage is the "king male" that totally disregards what stay at home moms are doing as "easy".......I feel sorry for your wife, I really do, she must be some mousy, good little girl who was raised to treat her husband and kind and to hell with her needs and such, marriage c1950 *gak*.
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Old 01-01-2013, 11:40 AM   #55
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Happy to hear this as I thought the same as blulilacgrl. Think in terms of what you can do... think about the suggestions a few day or so, do some processing of things, figure it out, think: solutions not excuses. I got an excuse for everything, too, if I need one... but my problems are never solved by those excuses. He's gotta be willing to participate also... sounds like that might be a challenge, right there... You mentioned he won't do counseling... consider it still, for yourself. My communication skills... talking, understanding, listening skills are 100% better than before I saw a therapist. My motto is "figure it out... together... or forget it." But if he won't go with you, maybe go by yourself. A therapist could help you figure out what you need, want, what works, what doesn't, how ways of thinking can sometimes be skewed & mess you up.
Here's a thought: I trust you aren't referring to him as having always "been just the manager" in his presence... or the kids' presence. That'd be kind of a big turnoff for him, I'd imagine.
To express my opinions specifically... concerning a certain poster on here, well, I just don't have the time so I'll say this: I know a lot of people. It's funny, in a twilight zone style, though, that just about every guy I've ever known named Rick... was a dick. Some things never change.
I like this post a lot, it mirrors a lot of what I am thinking. As others have posted, you really can't change others, you can only change yourself and in turn that allows change to happen. If at all possible, if you can get yourself into counseling/therapy do it, and it isn't because like rick the dick I think you are at fault, far from it. Therapy/counseling can do a lot of things, it can help you learn to communicate, it can help you also learn how to get what you need, and most importantly, it can help you give insights into things like helping raise kids who won't have the same problems you are having when they grow up and get married/have relationships. Put it this way, there was a lot of toxicity in both my wife's and my backgrounds, and the thing I am most grateful for with therapy is that we both broke those chains, because we tend to pass down things we have picked up from our own families,our S has much different ideas of relationships and working with someone else. A good therapist can teach you how to approach your husband and understand where he is coming from among other things.

It is also invaluable when dealing with toxic inlaws, your MIL sounds like a piece of work if she won't take care of the grandkids out of spite, if what you write it true. Most grandparents would give their right arms and such to have time with the grandkids, she sounds like a piece of work (and now you know some of where your H got his stuff from).

If you want to understand more about your H, take a look at his family and how their relationships work out. Take a look at his Mother and Father, and see how their relationship plays out, and I would bet you would see much the same thing you are complaining of,and look at siblings of H and their relationships, bet you would see the same dynamics.I would bet the dads don't interact much with the kids, have never changed a diaper, and who treat their time at home as 'their' time rather then 'your time'.

I agree with others, the key is probably trying things, finding what works, and keep trying, and also if I have anything that sticks, try to get out of the mindset of fault here, if only because all laying fault does, blame, is it leaves the wound to fester rather then healing. Among other things, your H needs to learn that a marriage is a two way street with most things, that while going to work and supporting the family is obviously incredibly important, it doesn't end there and it isn't just about 'helping the wife', it is also about being a parent to the kids. I am not talking out of my hat, I have the kind of jobs, have for most of my career, where it isn't 9-5, I work long hours, commute long hours, will come home and work, work weekends more often then not, and yet any free time I have gets devoted to my family, my kids and my spouse, because that is important.

One thought, if you can't get your MIL to take the kids, would H be willing to talk to her about taking care of them? Maybe if he said it was important it could happen, just a thought...

Some of this will be made easier as they get older, as they go to school during the day, and as they become more self sufficient (lot easier to tell a 7 year old "go to bed" then putting a 3 year old down. Plus it is likely that over time your H will probably not be as stressed, as he settles in and as he becomes more a part owner of the business rather then the guy running everything. You are at a tough time in life, with young kids, and a husband who is trying to build the future at work, and it is hard. One thing I would encourage you to do, while trying to make things to work, is also to cut yourself and you H some slack, and realize that you are in the middle of a wonderful but crazy time in life that will pass all too fast. While I obviously agree you and H need to work on some things, you also are in one of those stretches my therapist used to talk about, she said that when things are going rough/tough/stressful, it is so overwhelming that it seems like they will never end, but of course they will but we get bummed out thinking that is it; and that when things are going wonderfully (as like when we are in a new relationship/new marriage, that is flying) we think it will always be like that, and when it doesn't go on forever, it hits us like a ton of bricks.
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Old 01-01-2013, 09:10 PM   #56
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photograph, you are forgetting that you have been diagnosed with Fibrpmyalgia, THE one thing you don't want is stress. If your not in a lot of pain now your lucky but stress will get you there.

I hate to say this but you did move back to his home town and his old "friends".

email if I can help.
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Old 01-02-2013, 01:23 AM   #57
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Photograph,

Okay so the other night hubby and I got a kid free evening. And we ended up talking about the new year and things we wanted to do which naturally led to a discussion of the past. And he said something that made me think of you. A few years ago when we were kind of ironing out the whole communication thing I apparently said 2 things that made him sit up and take notice. Maybe it will do the same for your hubby.

1. The single greatest gift you can give your children is not the newest video game system, or designer clothes, or brand whatever whatever. It is a strong and healthy relationship. The two of you are the role models. You will teach your children how to listen, help, and most importantly how to communicate with their spouses. They will learn to be fathers and husbands by watching him. And children learn with their eyes not their ears.

2. A relationship is like a car. You can drive it every day but if you don't take care of it, eventually it's gonna blow up on you. Now you can do the whole once a year overhaul~ what I call the big Valentine's Day/Anniversary blowout of expensive gifts and such. Or you can do the daily upkeep. Think of hand holding, hugs and setting aside 10 mins a day to just chat and catch up with each other as checking the tire pressure, changing the oil and rotating the tires.

Now if you drive your car with the idea that once a year you are going to overhaul the engine and such, you spend the entire year praying that the car will make it. Whereas if you do the monthly checkups, you are constantly aware of the shape of your car and what needs to be done.
(My guy is a car guy so this made sense to him. I don't know if it will work for your guy but I figured i would throw it out there.)

Again good luck to you.
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Old 01-02-2013, 03:34 PM   #58
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I just wanted to update a little bit.

Yesterday, he came home from work early. Apparently, he was supposed to work overnight, but went in at 3pm, thinking he had second shift duty for some reason. He mostly works 3rd shift, but his boss occasionally asks him to work a 2nd shift to allow him time to contact banks/title loan companies about their repo accounts. That's his official title, he's a Repossession Manager for this company. Anyway, he came home at 9:30 pm, which surprised me, since I figured he wouldn't be home until midnight or later. He explained the messed up shift, and how he just switched for today. He was supposed to work the 2nd shift today, and is working 3rd instead.

Since we had a few extra hours, and the kids were already in bed, we finally had a talk. Not everything got hashed out, since we were both tired, but at least we have a somewhat better understanding of what each other is going through.

Basically, he's stressed because I'm stressed. I'm stressed because our children are at the point of pushing my boundaries, so they rarely listen to me. They are also extremely destructive, trashing their room on a daily basis. Mainly, just dumping toys, clothes, etc all over the floor, then refusing to pick them up. Normal behavior for a 2 year old and 5 year old, according to their doctor. After a particularly bad room trashing yesterday, I asked him to please call his mom and have her watch the kids for the afternoon, so I could 1) have a break and 2)clean up their room without them being in my way. I resolved yesterday to stop letting them walk all over me, so while they were at his mom's house, I removed their tv, toys, books, etc, and all they have left in their room is their beds. They have to be good to earn the toys back, and they have to earn all of their toys back to get the tv back.

When he got home, I explained this system to him, and he said he's glad there is something with finite rules for them. Part of the stress between us is that he is much more lax in the discipline than I am, and they know this. Yes, even at 2 and 5, our daughters know that if they want something, and mommy says no, daddy will say yes. I explained to him how much harder this makes it for me to enforce any sort of discipline or consequences, and I think he finally realized I was right, at least partially right that it does them no good, and in fact just confuses them.

I also explained to him that part of the reason I'm stressed is that I feel as if I'm in a competition for his attention. Now that we are back in his home town, around his family and friends, there are a multitude of people vying for his attention, and I'm just a drop in the bucket. I don't think he fully realized this, but at the same time, I didn't realize how demanding his boss could be at times. His boss treats most of the employees like a doormat, and my husband is a little afraid to stand up to him. I'm not, however, and I did have the opportunity to talk to his boss a little at a party last month. I explained to his boss that while I appreciate all that he has done for my husband, I do wish that my husband had more "family" time. The boss didn't realize this, as he has no kids of his own, and his wife helps with the business. I think I spoke for most of the employees, as they all have kids. The boss has been calling a bit less, but is still quite demanding of my husband's time. I realize that he is essentially grooming my husband to take over this company's operations within the next year, and that is why he is so demanding. I promised my husband to try and not let it get to me as much, and to try and understand his position. I know he is torn, and getting on his case constantly does not help anything.

I've also decided to ease up some on my expectations. I realize that I am often too hard on myself. Part of this is my upbringing. I was raised by a single father, but my grandmother had a lot to do with my upbringing. She was a stay at home mom, and I was brought up with the notion that it is the wife's duty to keep the house clean, the children clean and fed, and all that. You know, 50s housewife style. So, I've been killing myself lately to try and keep my house spotless, and my children in line, etc. I'm only one person though, and I refuse to continue to sacrifice my happiness for the sake of a clean, spotless house. So, if the floors don't get mopped one day, big deal, it's not the end of the world. I think this will help ease my stress some, and allow me to carve out some "me" time each day.

Sorry this was so long, and if you read it all, thank you. Also, thank you all again for the advice.
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Old 01-02-2013, 03:47 PM   #59
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Photograph,

Okay so the other night hubby and I got a kid free evening. And we ended up talking about the new year and things we wanted to do which naturally led to a discussion of the past. And he said something that made me think of you. A few years ago when we were kind of ironing out the whole communication thing I apparently said 2 things that made him sit up and take notice. Maybe it will do the same for your hubby.

1. The single greatest gift you can give your children is not the newest video game system, or designer clothes, or brand whatever whatever. It is a strong and healthy relationship. The two of you are the role models. You will teach your children how to listen, help, and most importantly how to communicate with their spouses. They will learn to be fathers and husbands by watching him. And children learn with their eyes not their ears.

2. A relationship is like a car. You can drive it every day but if you don't take care of it, eventually it's gonna blow up on you. Now you can do the whole once a year overhaul~ what I call the big Valentine's Day/Anniversary blowout of expensive gifts and such. Or you can do the daily upkeep. Think of hand holding, hugs and setting aside 10 mins a day to just chat and catch up with each other as checking the tire pressure, changing the oil and rotating the tires.

Now if you drive your car with the idea that once a year you are going to overhaul the engine and such, you spend the entire year praying that the car will make it. Whereas if you do the monthly checkups, you are constantly aware of the shape of your car and what needs to be done.
(My guy is a car guy so this made sense to him. I don't know if it will work for your guy but I figured i would throw it out there.)

Again good luck to you.
This. You hit the nail on the head. Point blank.

I know that our children will learn how to be adults from us. That's the way he and I learned to interact. Although, we came from such different family dynamics, it's not even funny.

I am the product of a broken home. My parents divorced when I was 3, my father had custody of us from the time I was 4 until I moved out at 18. He remarried twice, but neither relationship lasted. My first stepmother was an evil, spiteful woman, who had no interest in raising children that weren't her own. My second stepmother was just insane, and was committed to a psych ward after a year of turning our lives upside down. So, as a young child through young adult, I had no clue what a healthy relationship looked like. My mother was no better, her second husband tried to choke her to death in front of us kids. I told myself a long time ago that I did not want a relationship like either of them had.

He is from your typical 2 parent household. His parents have been married for almost 34 years. His father had very little interaction with the kids, other than sports, and let the mother do everything. While I do not get along with his mother, I have to say, she STILL does everything. I think this is part of where the tension comes in. I was in a family where the father did everything because he had to as a single dad, he was in a family where the father did nothing because he wasn't made to interact. That being said, I do have to say that his father is a wonderful grandfather, and interacts with our children much more. My husband also interacts with our children, not as much as I'd like, but I know it's also a comfort thing with him. I do not think he knows how sometimes, since we have two daughters.

As far as maintenance, you're right. I told him a long time ago that I do not expect anything for Valentine's Day. As for our anniversary, we usually do something fun, like go to a ballgame. However, that is usually the only time we allow ourselves to focus on us as a couple, and that's not healthy. I'm going to talk to him about maybe having a date night, even once a month. Even if it's just sitting home, watching a couple of movies.
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Old 01-02-2013, 04:07 PM   #60
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Photograph,

I have been following your thread to see what help you might be getting. It appears that you have received a lot of useful advise.

It also appears that you have identified how your upbringing, and your husband's upbringing are very different and left both of you without proper tools/guidance/understanding to best deal with the children and with your relationship to each other. This is actually great news. An understanding of the root of the problem is 90% of the effort to start fixing things.

The fact that you found time to have a frank discussion with your husband about this is also a big step to making things better.

As we use to say many years ago "Keep on Keeping on!"

Wishing the best for you.
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Old 01-02-2013, 04:19 PM   #61
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This. You hit the nail on the head. Point blank.

I know that our children will learn how to be adults from us. That's the way he and I learned to interact. Although, we came from such different family dynamics, it's not even funny.

I am the product of a broken home. My parents divorced when I was 3, my father had custody of us from the time I was 4 until I moved out at 18. He remarried twice, but neither relationship lasted. My first stepmother was an evil, spiteful woman, who had no interest in raising children that weren't her own. My second stepmother was just insane, and was committed to a psych ward after a year of turning our lives upside down. So, as a young child through young adult, I had no clue what a healthy relationship looked like. My mother was no better, her second husband tried to choke her to death in front of us kids. I told myself a long time ago that I did not want a relationship like either of them had.

He is from your typical 2 parent household. His parents have been married for almost 34 years. His father had very little interaction with the kids, other than sports, and let the mother do everything. While I do not get along with his mother, I have to say, she STILL does everything. I think this is part of where the tension comes in. I was in a family where the father did everything because he had to as a single dad, he was in a family where the father did nothing because he wasn't made to interact. That being said, I do have to say that his father is a wonderful grandfather, and interacts with our children much more. My husband also interacts with our children, not as much as I'd like, but I know it's also a comfort thing with him. I do not think he knows how sometimes, since we have two daughters.

As far as maintenance, you're right. I told him a long time ago that I do not expect anything for Valentine's Day. As for our anniversary, we usually do something fun, like go to a ballgame. However, that is usually the only time we allow ourselves to focus on us as a couple, and that's not healthy. I'm going to talk to him about maybe having a date night, even once a month. Even if it's just sitting home, watching a couple of movies.
From your both of your post it sounds like you two are on starting to get your footing and that is great. And I think the fact that you have looked at the relationships of your parents to see how they influence your own parenting styles is fantastic, but also look at the relationship between his parents. Are they affectionate to each other?

And I don't know why i assumed boys. I guess because I have boys. But in your case you might have an edge. A gentle (I emphasize gentle) reminder that he needs to be the husband he wants his daughters to have sometimes makes a huge difference. I know they say the the parent of the same sex is the strongest role model, but I kind of disagree. Both parents are important. Daughters look to their mother to show them how to be women (either by good or bad examples~ i.e what to do or not to do) but they look to their father on what kind of man to look for.

Here's an exercise if you are interested. Both of you sit down (it should only take a few minutes) and write down the top 3 qualities you want in your future sons in law. And the top 3 qualities you want your daughters to have.

You each might be surprised at the answers you come up with when you come back together. You might find out that for him the most important quality is financial security while yours is emotional support. The great thing about this conversation is that it can open a dialogue as to what you each find important in a spouse. But it is in a removed fashion. But then you can each look at these lists and ask yourselves "Do I exemplify this qualities to my children? Am I teaching my kids to be this or to expect this from their spouse by my actions?"

You know please let me know if I am overstepping. I have a tendency to do so. But if you feel it helps I have a bunch of other little conversation starters that I know worked for me and hubby to help us figure out how the other thought and communicated.
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Old 01-02-2013, 05:19 PM   #62
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From your both of your post it sounds like you two are on starting to get your footing and that is great. And I think the fact that you have looked at the relationships of your parents to see how they influence your own parenting styles is fantastic, but also look at the relationship between his parents. Are they affectionate to each other?

And I don't know why i assumed boys. I guess because I have boys. But in your case you might have an edge. A gentle (I emphasize gentle) reminder that he needs to be the husband he wants his daughters to have sometimes makes a huge difference. I know they say the the parent of the same sex is the strongest role model, but I kind of disagree. Both parents are important. Daughters look to their mother to show them how to be women (either by good or bad examples~ i.e what to do or not to do) but they look to their father on what kind of man to look for.

Here's an exercise if you are interested. Both of you sit down (it should only take a few minutes) and write down the top 3 qualities you want in your future sons in law. And the top 3 qualities you want your daughters to have.

You each might be surprised at the answers you come up with when you come back together. You might find out that for him the most important quality is financial security while yours is emotional support. The great thing about this conversation is that it can open a dialogue as to what you each find important in a spouse. But it is in a removed fashion. But then you can each look at these lists and ask yourselves "Do I exemplify this qualities to my children? Am I teaching my kids to be this or to expect this from their spouse by my actions?"

You know please let me know if I am overstepping. I have a tendency to do so. But if you feel it helps I have a bunch of other little conversation starters that I know worked for me and hubby to help us figure out how the other thought and communicated.
Thank you for the suggestion. I think this might work, so I'm going to give it a shot.

As for his parents, no, they are not affectionate towards each other. I've had discussions with his mother several times, because the similarities in my husband and his father are astounding, so I have picked her brain for ways to deal with it. Her advice is usually just to ignore it, which is why their relationship is the way it is. She once told me the only reason they are still married is for convenience and comfort. That's not the kind of marriage I want.
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Old 01-02-2013, 05:41 PM   #63
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I think you would find the time you spend with your wife and kid(s) more rewarding if you were to quit dragging them about by their hair and dictating to them (when you’re not quietly fiddling with your tools made of bone and wood off in the far corner of the cave).

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I just wanted to update a little bit.

Yesterday, he came home from work early. Apparently, he was supposed to work overnight, but went in at 3pm, thinking he had second shift duty for some reason. He mostly works 3rd shift, but his boss occasionally asks him to work a 2nd shift to allow him time to contact banks/title loan companies about their repo accounts. That's his official title, he's a Repossession Manager for this company. Anyway, he came home at 9:30 pm, which surprised me, since I figured he wouldn't be home until midnight or later. He explained the messed up shift, and how he just switched for today. He was supposed to work the 2nd shift today, and is working 3rd instead.

Since we had a few extra hours, and the kids were already in bed, we finally had a talk. Not everything got hashed out, since we were both tired, but at least we have a somewhat better understanding of what each other is going through.

Basically, he's stressed because I'm stressed. I'm stressed because our children are at the point of pushing my boundaries, so they rarely listen to me. They are also extremely destructive, trashing their room on a daily basis. Mainly, just dumping toys, clothes, etc all over the floor, then refusing to pick them up. Normal behavior for a 2 year old and 5 year old, according to their doctor. After a particularly bad room trashing yesterday, I asked him to please call his mom and have her watch the kids for the afternoon, so I could 1) have a break and 2)clean up their room without them being in my way. I resolved yesterday to stop letting them walk all over me, so while they were at his mom's house, I removed their tv, toys, books, etc, and all they have left in their room is their beds. They have to be good to earn the toys back, and they have to earn all of their toys back to get the tv back.

When he got home, I explained this system to him, and he said he's glad there is something with finite rules for them. Part of the stress between us is that he is much more lax in the discipline than I am, and they know this. Yes, even at 2 and 5, our daughters know that if they want something, and mommy says no, daddy will say yes. I explained to him how much harder this makes it for me to enforce any sort of discipline or consequences, and I think he finally realized I was right, at least partially right that it does them no good, and in fact just confuses them.

I also explained to him that part of the reason I'm stressed is that I feel as if I'm in a competition for his attention. Now that we are back in his home town, around his family and friends, there are a multitude of people vying for his attention, and I'm just a drop in the bucket. I don't think he fully realized this, but at the same time, I didn't realize how demanding his boss could be at times. His boss treats most of the employees like a doormat, and my husband is a little afraid to stand up to him. I'm not, however, and I did have the opportunity to talk to his boss a little at a party last month. I explained to his boss that while I appreciate all that he has done for my husband, I do wish that my husband had more "family" time. The boss didn't realize this, as he has no kids of his own, and his wife helps with the business. I think I spoke for most of the employees, as they all have kids. The boss has been calling a bit less, but is still quite demanding of my husband's time. I realize that he is essentially grooming my husband to take over this company's operations within the next year, and that is why he is so demanding. I promised my husband to try and not let it get to me as much, and to try and understand his position. I know he is torn, and getting on his case constantly does not help anything.

I've also decided to ease up some on my expectations. I realize that I am often too hard on myself. Part of this is my upbringing. I was raised by a single father, but my grandmother had a lot to do with my upbringing. She was a stay at home mom, and I was brought up with the notion that it is the wife's duty to keep the house clean, the children clean and fed, and all that. You know, 50s housewife style. So, I've been killing myself lately to try and keep my house spotless, and my children in line, etc. I'm only one person though, and I refuse to continue to sacrifice my happiness for the sake of a clean, spotless house. So, if the floors don't get mopped one day, big deal, it's not the end of the world. I think this will help ease my stress some, and allow me to carve out some "me" time each day.

Sorry this was so long, and if you read it all, thank you. Also, thank you all again for the advice.
Sounds like you are both taking some good first steps. I'll not echo a bunch of the good advise already offered up in the thread, but instead will wish you the best, and encourage you (both of you) to keep communicating and working on things.
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Old 01-02-2013, 05:43 PM   #64
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Thank you for the suggestion. I think this might work, so I'm going to give it a shot.

As for his parents, no, they are not affectionate towards each other. I've had discussions with his mother several times, because the similarities in my husband and his father are astounding, so I have picked her brain for ways to deal with it. Her advice is usually just to ignore it, which is why their relationship is the way it is. She once told me the only reason they are still married is for convenience and comfort. That's not the kind of marriage I want.
Okay see I would say, and I am not saying this in a mean or judgmental way, but that is the example he grew up with. That is the husband he was 'taught' to be. So it might be helpful to recognize that some of the things he does might not be intentional, it is the way he thinks things are supposed to work in a marriage.

A perfect example of this is my husband grew up in a family that never fought. I mean he NEVER witnessed a disagreement between his parents. Now I am all for not fighting in front of your children. Children should not be a part of arguments and fights, especially adult ones. But by the same token, I feel it is healthy for them to see some minor disagreements. I think it is important for us as parents to model healthy ways to disagree & compromise. But the rule we have is if we disagree in front of the children, we never get nasty or mean AND we always make up & apologize in front of them. Personally I think it shows that people who love each other can disagree and still love each other. Again I stress MINOR disagreements~ we will debate something silly, or argue over a movie or what's for dinner, etc...

But it took us sitting down and comparing the marriages of our parents to realize the different approaches we were taking to our own marriage as well as the different perspectives we were bringing to child rearing. And then find a happy medium that worked for our family. Does that makes sense?
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Old 01-02-2013, 06:52 PM   #65
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I think right now you're in a VERY healthy place. You're seeing how your and your husband's upbringing and history have affected how you two deal with a relationship and kids and etc, and how different you two are as people. That's a GOOD thing. So often I see couples that can't get along because the people in the relationship aren't really aware that their partner is an individual who grew up totally separate from them, and aren't going to react the way they react to certain situations because their entire history is different.

Right now, you're in a good headspace. You're looking at the hard things and accepting your reality, and you're accepting that both you and your husband have faults in this situation.

It's going to be hard but I honestly believe you can do this. I have a LOT of faith in you...you've shown yourself to be a truthful, rational and very emotionally mature and emotionally aware woman, and that's the key to being in a happy relationship.
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Old 01-04-2013, 12:23 AM   #66
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I think you are going to be fine, you have gotten some great advice (blulilacgrl hit a home run IMO) and you are figuring things out. The talking is so important, people say it but it is true. I went through couples therapy and what you are finding out is what I learned, too......

-Our pasts filter how we see things, perceive things, the old you wear rose colored glasses, I wear blue colored ones, and one of the reasons talking is important is to see why we think the way we do.

-We assume different things (you see that with your boss not understanding about family dynamics; I had a boss like that once, an older woman with no family, was pretty pathetic), and as they used to say about assuming, ends up making and ass out of you and me...Seriously, we assume things based on our past, and if those assumptions aren't shared, it causes chaos.

-Keep on getting your husband involved with the kids, it is so, so important, I can't stress how much, not just for their sake, but for his, too. He is busy, and time is precious, but the old cliche about quality time is real.One thing I recommend strongly, for both of you, is to try and block out individual time with the kids, as well as together, it means a lot of them to share things 1 on 1.

-If something is bothering you, talk to him about it, and if he seems bothered, encourage him to talk, it is the greatest gift of all, believe me, to have someone who you know you can talk to.

-Blulilacgrl is dead spot on, to hell with the roses and champagne on valentines day, better to have 365 days of 'little valentines days' then one big one (her car analogy is a classic...). It is those little things IME that cement a relationship, much more then the rare big ones

-Want to know the biggest gift you can give each other? Forgive yourselves for not being perfect. My wife is a virgo, a neat freak kind of person, loves order (married to a pisces......) and so forth, and it was really hard for her to learn it was okay not to be perfect, that the nasty old nuns who beat kids in school and told them imperfection was the devil's work were psycho..... seriously, you (and your husband) have to forgive yourselves if things aren't perfect, if the kitchen counter isn't spotless, if the floor has waxy buildup, if you gave the cat the bowl of cereal you were giving your daughter and the daughter the bowl of cat food, it happens, or if you put dirty laundry in the dryer, well, that's the territory.

Likewise, don't obsess about being the perfect parent all the time, the fact that you care and obsess and feel like you aren't doing the right thing means you probably are a damn good parent. Want to know the sign of a bad parent (gotten this one from several shrinks, including my own therapist, who knows a thing or two, raised 4 kids that actually like each other)? You can always spot the bad parents, they are the ones that think they are perfect parents. Forgive yourself, tell your husband to forgive himself, because perfection isn't real, and of the kid can tie their shoelaces and go to the bathroom by themselves by the time they go to college, ya done good.

-blulilacgrl was dead spot on about how your relationship will affect how they view them and such. No matter what you tell them, kids pick up from the dynamics around them, their attitudes are caught not taught. If they see you guys interacting, if they see you talking, if they see those little acts of intimacy, they will learn them. If they grow up around parents whose relationship is strained, as mine was, where by the time i became aware there was only anger and hurt and lashing out, you as a kid pick it up. How the hell I was ever able to get into a relationship, I don't know, was called a fucking anomaly by a psychiatrist (actually my wife and I both were, that we shouldn't have been able to get into a relationship, let alone with each other), and it came from that......

And yeah, learning to argue is important. More then a few years ago James Carville and Mary Matalin published a book about the art of fighting in a relationship, and it seems to work, they have to be the oddest couple I have ever seen, it is like mixing sodium and water (for the non chemistry minded, that causes the sodium to burn), but they have a long term, apparently happy marriage (the book is actually pretty darn good, and funny, too).

You seem to be learning the right lessons, and I'll hand it to you, took me a lot of years in therapy to figure out the crap from my past and break from it, took my therapist at times threatening me, just keep working at it with your husband, and I think you both will be gratified in years down the road when your kids have the best of both of you and don't repeat the stuff that wasn't good from your past.
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Old 01-04-2013, 12:29 AM   #67
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Thanks again everyone. The last 24 hours have been trying for me. Not because of him, but because of the children. They are still pushing my boundaries. He's sticking by my side in this though, which is good. At least my oldest if done with her break tomorrow, which will start putting some sort of routine back into her day.

His work schedule has been hectic. He worked 11pm-9am last night, and was scheduled back in at 6pm tonight. He got home, and immediately went to bed, staying awake only long enough to tell the girls good morning, as well as me. He asked that I wake him up around 4, so that he had a bit of time with us before he had to work again. His boss texted me around 4pm though, telling me to tell him not to come in until 10pm instead. So, his 6pm-2am shift got moved to a 10pm-7am shift. Instead of waking him up, I just let him sleep until dinner was ready.

I just wanted to say thank you all, again. It was nice to be able to hear advice and suggestions from someone completely removed from the situation. And, I realize that this is only temporary. Within the next 2 years, both of my children will be in school full-time, and I'll have my degree, and be able to work full time as well. 2 years is a drop in the bucket in the grand scheme of things.
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Old 01-04-2013, 07:24 AM   #68
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You've already gotten some good advice on the relationship part of things, so I'm going to chime in about the kids. First of all, Lauren was right. Obsessing about perfection is simply counter-productive - especially with pre-schoolers in the house. Here are some tips that I found worked well for my daughter when she was growing up - courtesy of FlyLady.

Play games with your kids as far as cleaning or picking up their rooms. You can choose a number, and see who can put away that many items the fastest. You can also use a timer - that was the most helpful tool for my daughter. The game was "Beat the Timer." Playing music helps; you might have to help them stay focused, but that should be all once they figure out how the games are played.

I set the timer for 15 minutes. She had a set goal that I chose, but she only had to work at it for 15 minutes. Once the timer was done, she got to stop - whether the job was done or not and whether it was perfect or not. The key to making this work is to STOP when the timer goes off. The kids will learn that you're good for your word. If they know 15 minutes really means JUST 15 minutes, they'll be more apt to give you 15 minutes whenever you ask for it.

I separated her room into 5 "zones." The bed, dresser, desk, closet, and floor. Your mileage may vary according to your specific situation, but that worked best for us. Every day, I chose a different zone and had her just pick it up for 15 minutes - nothing major, just picking up and putting away. (Five minutes may work better for the smaller child.) On Saturday, I again picked out a zone. This time, she spent the 15 minutes deep cleaning it. For the bed, that meant changing her sheets, dusting the attached bookcase, etc. Dresser duty was dusting the top, straightening drawers, and cleaning the mirror.

For the most part, her room was completely cleaned once a month. It really did make a difference in how clean she kept her room. It gave her direction. Instead of sending her into a room that looked like Hurricane Charley had just swept through - with vague instructions to "clean your room!", it actually gave her an achievable goal. She thought it was great that her room was always relatively ready for company, and Mom no longer had to be a complete maniac to get her to take care of her room. lol I loved it because her room was finally clean, and we didn't have to go through WWIII to get it that way. Win-win for everybody.

The last tip - discard the idea of perfection. At this stage of the game, you're going for getting a job done - not done perfectly. If the toys are put away, who cares if they're sorted by color, size, alphabetically, and all in the same position? They're put away; that's enough.

Those are only a few of the tips I learned from FlyLady. If you're interested in more, she has a huge website full of tips to help you and the kids - not just for cleaning, but also for exercising, date nights with hubby, and more. It's really a cool site; I encourage you to check it out. It's a wonderful tool for any stressed mom. Just take what you need or want to use and ignore the rest.

My final word of advice - take it from the Mom of a 20 year old. These days are stressful as hell, there's no doubt about it. The day will come, though, when you will long for the days you have now. Enjoy these little ones while they're still little. The house will still be there when they're long gone. You'll be amazed at the perspective a few years will make. When they're teenagers, you'll remember the days of "Terrible Twos," diapers, and fingerprints on windows fondly. My mom used to tell me to "train her when she's young." She was right. I started out early teaching her how to take care of her room, and it was far easier to get her to do it when she became a teenager. By the time she was 11, she could do anything in the house that I could do. I always figured my job was to teach her how to be an independent adult. She's moved out and on her own now; that part of my job is finished. As frustrating as her childhood was, I'd gladly deal with a messy room again to have my little girl back. Life just doesn't work out that way, though.
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Old 01-04-2013, 08:26 AM   #69
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I've been following this thread and I just wanted to say how nice it is to see that you are taking steps to improve things for the family and that your husband seems to be responding.

Good for you!
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Old 01-04-2013, 08:47 AM   #70
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Sounds like things are headed in the right direction.

One thing my parents did to keep us playing off them was if one parents said no we couldn't do it, so unless we convinced both parents to let us do something we couldn't. It has to work both ways and it may seem trivial but it does work. Seeing your parents as a united front is also kind of comforting even if you think they are dead wrong, you at least know where they stand.

The other thing I have seen work is that any toy that wasn't put away got removed. You need a fairly big box for a 2yr to throw their toys in.
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Old 01-04-2013, 10:32 AM   #71
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You've already gotten some good advice on the relationship part of things, so I'm going to chime in about the kids. First of all, Lauren was right. Obsessing about perfection is simply counter-productive - especially with pre-schoolers in the house. Here are some tips that I found worked well for my daughter when she was growing up - courtesy of FlyLady.

Play games with your kids as far as cleaning or picking up their rooms. You can choose a number, and see who can put away that many items the fastest. You can also use a timer - that was the most helpful tool for my daughter. The game was "Beat the Timer." Playing music helps; you might have to help them stay focused, but that should be all once they figure out how the games are played.

I set the timer for 15 minutes. She had a set goal that I chose, but she only had to work at it for 15 minutes. Once the timer was done, she got to stop - whether the job was done or not and whether it was perfect or not. The key to making this work is to STOP when the timer goes off. The kids will learn that you're good for your word. If they know 15 minutes really means JUST 15 minutes, they'll be more apt to give you 15 minutes whenever you ask for it.

I separated her room into 5 "zones." The bed, dresser, desk, closet, and floor. Your mileage may vary according to your specific situation, but that worked best for us. Every day, I chose a different zone and had her just pick it up for 15 minutes - nothing major, just picking up and putting away. (Five minutes may work better for the smaller child.) On Saturday, I again picked out a zone. This time, she spent the 15 minutes deep cleaning it. For the bed, that meant changing her sheets, dusting the attached bookcase, etc. Dresser duty was dusting the top, straightening drawers, and cleaning the mirror.

For the most part, her room was completely cleaned once a month. It really did make a difference in how clean she kept her room. It gave her direction. Instead of sending her into a room that looked like Hurricane Charley had just swept through - with vague instructions to "clean your room!", it actually gave her an achievable goal. She thought it was great that her room was always relatively ready for company, and Mom no longer had to be a complete maniac to get her to take care of her room. lol I loved it because her room was finally clean, and we didn't have to go through WWIII to get it that way. Win-win for everybody.

The last tip - discard the idea of perfection. At this stage of the game, you're going for getting a job done - not done perfectly. If the toys are put away, who cares if they're sorted by color, size, alphabetically, and all in the same position? They're put away; that's enough.

Those are only a few of the tips I learned from FlyLady. If you're interested in more, she has a huge website full of tips to help you and the kids - not just for cleaning, but also for exercising, date nights with hubby, and more. It's really a cool site; I encourage you to check it out. It's a wonderful tool for any stressed mom. Just take what you need or want to use and ignore the rest.

My final word of advice - take it from the Mom of a 20 year old. These days are stressful as hell, there's no doubt about it. The day will come, though, when you will long for the days you have now. Enjoy these little ones while they're still little. The house will still be there when they're long gone. You'll be amazed at the perspective a few years will make. When they're teenagers, you'll remember the days of "Terrible Twos," diapers, and fingerprints on windows fondly. My mom used to tell me to "train her when she's young." She was right. I started out early teaching her how to take care of her room, and it was far easier to get her to do it when she became a teenager. By the time she was 11, she could do anything in the house that I could do. I always figured my job was to teach her how to be an independent adult. She's moved out and on her own now; that part of my job is finished. As frustrating as her childhood was, I'd gladly deal with a messy room again to have my little girl back. Life just doesn't work out that way, though.
It's nice to see another person who's heard of FlyLady. I followed her a while ago, quit when the kids came.

I can't remember if I posted about this or not, but I removed all of the toys from their room, since they would not pick them up. I didn't care if they were sorted, or hell, even thrown in the bottom of their closet and piled up. I just wanted them off of the main part of the floor, but they refused to even do that. When I cleaned them out, I did sort them, and put all of the toys with multiple pieces/smaller pieces up, and those are a sort of ask permission kind of thing. I'm talking blocks, puzzles, and the tea party sets. The larger toys all got thrown back into their bins. Their "toy boxes" are just the big plastic bins with rope handles. We have 2, one for each of them.

It honestly baffles me, because they will help elsewhere in the house without a fuss. After dinner, they both clear their own plates. They both pick up their clothes after a bath and put them in the hamper. They will also pick up their coloring books and crayons, which we keep in the living room. It is just their room, for some reason, that they will not keep clean.
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Old 01-04-2013, 10:36 AM   #72
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Thank you Scrubber, I sure hope they are! I feel like they are, so it's a start. My confidence has even been boosted a little.

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One thing my parents did to keep us playing off them was if one parents said no we couldn't do it, so unless we convinced both parents to let us do something we couldn't. It has to work both ways and it may seem trivial but it does work. Seeing your parents as a united front is also kind of comforting even if you think they are dead wrong, you at least know where they stand.
This is a good idea, smart parents! I sort of have the advantage right now, since he is usually sleeping during the day, and I get a chance to talk to him before either of them can ask. I will tell him things that they have asked about repeatedly during the day, and my response to them. This helps him be a little more prepared.
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Old 01-04-2013, 03:00 PM   #73
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It's nice to see another person who's heard of FlyLady. I followed her a while ago, quit when the kids came.

I can't remember if I posted about this or not, but I removed all of the toys from their room, since they would not pick them up. I didn't care if they were sorted, or hell, even thrown in the bottom of their closet and piled up. I just wanted them off of the main part of the floor, but they refused to even do that. When I cleaned them out, I did sort them, and put all of the toys with multiple pieces/smaller pieces up, and those are a sort of ask permission kind of thing. I'm talking blocks, puzzles, and the tea party sets. The larger toys all got thrown back into their bins. Their "toy boxes" are just the big plastic bins with rope handles. We have 2, one for each of them.

It honestly baffles me, because they will help elsewhere in the house without a fuss. After dinner, they both clear their own plates. They both pick up their clothes after a bath and put them in the hamper. They will also pick up their coloring books and crayons, which we keep in the living room. It is just their room, for some reason, that they will not keep clean.
On the toy front, I took my idea from years working in daycares. I pasted/taped pictures of the corresponding toy to the bin (and sometimes even bag~ even ziploc baggie) that the toy went in. For little ones who can't read matching toys to pictures is a lot easier. Although I will warn you organizing it from scratch is a pain. Once I started doing it, I would simply cut out the picture from the box before we threw it away.

And I too occasionally check in on Flylady. hubby loves those 15 minutes challenges. Although he says it's not a challenge without an obstacle. So he will get all "handsy" with me while I am trying to do them. Such a pain sometimes!
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Old 01-04-2013, 03:17 PM   #74
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Wow, there's really a lot to obsorb here - both in your original posting and in all the advice being given. I think you've certainly read the best of the best when it comes to posters who actually dig into a topic and give it a sincere go in the reply.

That said...I think this specific piece requires a re-read for your sake.

Quote:
Originally Posted by njlauren View Post

Quite honestly, you are in a tough phase of life, with young kids (God's natural birth control), husband with a stressful job after moving, having family close at hand, it all can add up, too. I think you need to take some pressure off yourself with sex and understand that with young kids and the other pressures it won't be like when you were married without kids. I think you need to talk to your H about this, about the sex, but instead of saying something like 'honey, why aren't we having sex like we used to', maybe say something like "honey, I really miss having the sex we used to, but I also realize things are kind of rough right now, with a kid in the terrible two's, another one active and running around, but I have to tell you, I am looking forward to the time when the kids are in school/preschool so we can have time to have some fun"...it recognizes that things aren't what they once were, but it also doesn't blame anyone, and gives hope for the future.


This IS a tough phase in life, and likely your husband is feeling all the same distance and conflict as you are, and is just as troubled with how to process it as you are. You need to remember that typically men want the problem to be clearly identified to them so they can nuke it and be done with it. And his inablilty to solve the issue for you both is likely making him withdraw from it completely.

I am a big believer in learning to communicate in terms that your partner can understand. I have also found that men don't do well being confronted - even in a non hostile way - and asked to TALK about issues spur of the moment. If you are like most women, you've been mulling over what you want to say and your expectations of a conversation for weeks/months, but end up springing it on him without warning. I suggest laying out a clear path for the topics you need to cover, tell him what you need to discuss and ask him to think about them and come to YOU when he's ready to talk. Removing the element of suprise ("hey, you are sitting quietly having a beer and watching the news...this seems like a good time to get deep and discuss our failing sex life" NEVER GOOD!) and panic for him ("holy christ, I was just sitting here having a beer and watching the news, wtf did I do?")

I don't know if there's more I can say that might be helpful. I hope at least some of this was.

Good luck. I think many of us feel your pain.
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Old 01-04-2013, 03:37 PM   #75
blulilacgrl
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Riles View Post
I am a big believer in learning to communicate in terms that your partner can understand. I have also found that men don't do well being confronted - even in a non hostile way - and asked to TALK about issues spur of the moment. If you are like most women, you've been mulling over what you want to say and your expectations of a conversation for weeks/months, but end up springing it on him without warning. I suggest laying out a clear path for the topics you need to cover, tell him what you need to discuss and ask him to think about them and come to YOU when he's ready to talk. Removing the element of suprise ("hey, you are sitting quietly having a beer and watching the news...this seems like a good time to get deep and discuss our failing sex life" NEVER GOOD!) and panic for him ("holy christ, I was just sitting here having a beer and watching the news, wtf did I do?")

I don't know if there's more I can say that might be helpful. I hope at least some of this was.

Good luck. I think many of us feel your pain.
Riles that is a fantastic idea! And you know what that might work even better in a sense. It wouldn't have even occurred to me because hubby and I have set times to talk. BUT the OP doesn't have a lot of time with her guy.

Taking your idea. Do you think a letter would work? I get the sense that he drives for his job. So if she were to write a letter, explaining a topic/issue (OP as you know you would have to be EXTREMELY careful on how you word things to prevent misunderstandings) that he could then read and think about throughout the day/job/night/etc...

What do you think, Riles? Is that in line with your suggestion? Because you really do bring up a good point of giving him time to process information.
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