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Old 12-06-2012, 01:39 AM   #76
LynetteLovett
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When I had sex with mean I was an advocate for "No glove no love" and in my erotic writing I use that to my advantage.
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Old 12-06-2012, 01:48 AM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sr71plt View Post
OK, Kurokami, I've gone back over the thread. Sorry, but I saw no other poster claiming as sweeping a use of condoms and other protective means as Cruel did. So, I guess my answer has to be that I singled her out because she singled herself out. And, yes, she did exhibit incomplete knowledge of gay sex activity, even though GM is what she writes.

I'll reiterate, though, that the story of hers I reviewed looks like a real good story--it just doesn't do what she advocated all should do.
My point was never about why you care about Cruel specifically, but about why you care at all. What does it matter to you if all her stories are exactingly safe or not? Are you just that desperate to prove someone wrong?
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Old 12-06-2012, 01:59 AM   #78
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Originally Posted by Kurokami View Post
My point was never about why you care about Cruel specifically, but about why you care at all. What does it matter to you if all her stories are exactingly safe or not? Are you just that desperate to prove someone wrong?
It's the flip side, Kurokami. The assertion of this thread was what should be required (by implication, if you didn't want to be sent to writer's hell for killing readers because you didn't read them the safety manual in your story). I care that erotica writers would think/assert that other writers should be that anal retentive and morality police about it. The assertion was floated on this thread, and I was voicing my rejection of that; then the assertion floated that it could always be done and still be erotic--and that it was being done--so I shot that one down.

So, it wasn't me telling other writers what they can write. It was me (and some others here) saying we weren't going to accept being told what "should" (or even could and still be erotic) be written in terms of safe-sex instruction.

I didn't open this topic. And, yes, I'll take pot shots at morality police any time they suggest the adult reader needs a babysitter.

And what's your problem then? What do you think you need to prove? What's the burr under your saddle here?
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Old 12-06-2012, 02:01 AM   #79
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FWIW - While I'm not a dude, I am a top and an ass plunderer with a big schlong, and I am on medications that inhibit my immune system, so I have to be careful.

I have noticed a great great variety in the messiness or lack thereof of man ass. Girl ass too, shock - cuter externally but the same crap inside! Factors from diet to last evacuation time to age, to...whatever. Shit does happen, but shit doesn't always happen.

Cleaning out is just good policy, sure. But I don't cringe and freak out if I don't read it mentioned in my gay porn reading.

For me, it doesn't really matter. If it's mentioned without being belabored, it's just realistic, if it's not it's just fantasy. Goes for humping, rubbers, ATM and just about everything.
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Old 12-06-2012, 02:10 AM   #80
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I have used condoms in my stories, depending on the circumstances. It's a tough call in these modern times, especially with headlines in the last week showing a rise in HIV. Good on you for applying some creativity to the dilemma.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NaokoSmith View Post
What are your thoughts on writing safe sex?
I so much admired the way gay men's stories often make condoms a normal part of the erotic scenes. At first I thought since I write fantasy I couldn't do it but then I thought, "Really! what kind of writer are you? See it as a creative challenge." Some of my friends said they were surprised by the condoms popping up in my fantasy world (and one wanted me to use a special herb instead which he suggested could have other properties too - yes, he is of that generation) but nobody has complained in the feedback.
I partly decided to do this because of some research I've been doing on Sex and Relationships Education. I realised that although kids (in the UK anyway) are being taught how to put a condom on a banana, they aren't being taught to have the self-confidence to say: "No, I won't do it if it's not safe." I set up a blog which I have been developing where I'm reviewing erotica which is 'safe' as a portal for young people (well, people of any age really) who want to explore but might be nervous about just plunging into the wild and wonderful world of internet stuff on sex. Here I only review stories in which safe sex is practised, as I hope in this way to encourage people to feel condom usage is normal.
What do you think?
I'd like to write a blogpost about this on my other blog where I collect thoughts on writing erotica.

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Old 12-06-2012, 02:11 AM   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sr71plt View Post
It's the flip side, Kurokami. The assertion of this thread was what should be required (by implication, if you didn't want to be sent to writer's hell for killing readers because you didn't read them the safety manual in your story). I care that erotica writers would think/assert that other writers should be that anal retentive and morality police about it. The assertion was floated on this thread, and I was voicing my rejection of that; then the assertion floated that it could always be done and still be erotic--and that it was being done--so I shot that one down.
Which is fine and all. I agree with you. But there comes a point where all you're doing is belaboring the issue, and to me that point is when you're drawing specific examples from an author's body of work to prove them a hypocrite. Is it really worth the effort?

Quote:
And what's your problem then? What do you think you need to prove? What's the burr under your saddle here?
I have no problem, burr, or saddle for it to be under. In fact, I added in an additional, generic paragraph into my first post specifically in the hopes that you wouldn't think I was targeting you, or out to hassle you. You did anyway, and I guess I responded a little more shortly than I should have. I think you're going too far and expending far and away too much effort on this point, especially when nobody here is in any position to demand all stories follow safety instructions to the letter, but I'm not out to prove anything, nor do I have a problem with you. I apologize if it seemed like I did.
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Old 12-06-2012, 02:14 AM   #82
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Peace, then. Yes, I didn't get what you thought you were asking from what how your post read.

This "treat the reader like a child who needs protected" is a theme that runs through frequent discussions on this forum, though--often in the form of notes that "need" to be put on the front of stories. Here it was in the form of a responsibility to preach safe sex to them in the story and to limit what you put in your story thereby.
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Old 12-06-2012, 02:29 AM   #83
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OK any more popping at individuals who may or may not live up their own or our own high standards and I ask for the thread to be closed.

I can't actually remember anyone claiming they always write safe sex - even me, and I am more obsessed about it than most. Mostly people were saying whether they thought writing safe sex was a good idea in general not that they piously always do it and everyone else should too. Please read the thread back very carefully if you think otherwise.

I do remember one writer saying another writer didn't know much about gm sex. Frankly I don't care. As the same writer wisely remarked, realism isn't important. Readers rarely care if the gay sex is full of poo and insists on condoms or fails to mention any poo and doesn't specify whether safe sex was practised. They want the bodies to be hot and the sex to be sizzling and they usually want the schlongs to be big ones. I read a (hetero) story where the schlong was 10 " and as big as a coke can. I didn't mind that it was unrealistic only that it was SO unrealistic that I started laughing instead of deciding to go for a quiet lie down. And even though the writer mentioned the character strewing the room with large condoms (which is why I bought the damn story), he never mentioned putting one on which with a schlong that size seemed like an omission. I kept wondering if he could have got it on. The condom I mean.

I know some people are trying to defend others here and that's kind. However I think we need to stop stirring it up and get back to the actual discussion.

I am really grateful for all of the input on safe sex writing which I want to use when I write my blogpost. We could start another thread on realism in writing or women writing gay erotica if you like.

Can you get a condom on a schlong the size of a coke can? Anyone any practical experience?

Now I have to get my family up and breakfasted but I hope to see some more cool arguments whether to write safe sex and how we could best do so when I have rushed back from the school gate.
xxx
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Old 12-06-2012, 02:32 AM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sr71plt View Post
Peace, then. Yes, I didn't get what you thought you were asking from what how your post read.

This "treat the reader like a child who needs protected" is a theme that runs through frequent discussions on this forum, though--often in the form of notes that "need" to be put on the front of stories. Here it was in the form of a responsibility to preach safe sex to them in the story and to limit what you put in your story thereby.
That's a cool argument about whether to write safe sex. I can go with this argument although I still think there might be room for writing erotica which does offer a safe sex environment especially if aimed specifically at a younger readership perhaps?
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Old 12-06-2012, 02:40 AM   #85
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Quote:
Can you get a condom on a schlong the size of a coke can? Anyone any practical experience?
yes, one brand is "lifestyles."

They have large sizes,but even the 'regulars' can stretch right over my entire fist without tearing... much...



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Old 12-06-2012, 02:45 AM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NaokoSmith View Post

Can you get a condom on a schlong the size of a coke can? Anyone any practical experience?
Condom sizes are for the vainest of cockowners. There is a blog video I watched where she was able to put a 'regular' size condom over a combat boot.
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Old 12-06-2012, 02:49 AM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NaokoSmith View Post
That's a cool argument about whether to write safe sex. I can go with this argument although I still think there might be room for writing erotica which does offer a safe sex environment especially if aimed specifically at a younger readership perhaps?
Shouldn't the assumption be for a Literotica forum thread that we're talking about writing stories for Literotica? There should be no underage readership here. Every reader should be assumed to be an adult. If not, that's their problem/lookout.

(Although I must say that there's an angle here that makes the discussion of underage writers and readers here particularly delicious for this thread. If have to know Literotica history to see that angle, though. )
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Old 12-06-2012, 02:51 AM   #88
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Quote:
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I do remember one writer saying another writer didn't know much about gm sex.
I don't think you remember that correctly. That certainly would be a misrepresentation of anything that was posted on this thread, I think.
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Old 12-06-2012, 02:54 AM   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NaokoSmith View Post
Readers rarely care if the gay sex is full of poo and insists on condoms or fails to mention any poo
Ooo, I don't think that's true either. I'll bet there are very few readers on Lit. who want poo with their sex. And I don't think anyone on this thread asserted most of them do.
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Old 12-06-2012, 05:27 AM   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sr71plt View Post
Shouldn't the assumption be for a Literotica forum thread that we're talking about writing stories for Literotica? There should be no underage readership here. Every reader should be assumed to be an adult. If not, that's their problem/lookout.

(Although I must say that there's an angle here that makes the discussion of underage writers and readers here particularly delicious for this thread. If have to know Literotica history to see that angle, though. )
That's true but let's talk here not about underage readers, just young ones. That might mean old in years but lacking in worldly experience.

One thing that makes me think maybe it's OK to use erotica in order to put across a message about safe sex is the number of other messages being put across which we don't think about. Even in car advertising, as spoofed by Swiss Tony (http://www.bbc.co.uk/comedy/fastshow...iss_toni.shtml). "A car is like a beautiful woman." Ie, a woman should be beautiful and like a car, her main purpose is to show off a man's prowess. Or in food porn where it's always women who are targeted for sensuous advertising about chocolate. It can be so hard to find good erotica with strong female characters that several hetero male writers I've come across talk about taking up the writing in order to provide some for themselves.

Some people in this thread have said that they're writing for responsible adults but actually, large numbers of 'responsible' adults lose their heads when in the midst of hot horny snugglings with another 'responsible' adult and suddenly can't bear not to have penetrative sex even if they have no condom to hand. Many men refuse to have sex with a condom because it reduces their pleasure, even though they know it also reduces their own and their partner's chances of infection. Women feel pressured to accept this.

Safe sex is not widely accepted as the norm, people say it's like having a shower with a raincoat on. Is there a place for erotic writing which tackles the low level of safe sex messages in society in the same way as there is for erotic writing which tackles the lack of strong women characters?
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Old 12-06-2012, 12:09 PM   #91
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Quote:
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That's true but let's talk here not about underage readers, just young ones. That might mean old in years but lacking in worldly experience.
Let's not. I have zero responsibility for what any adult of any age decides to do with their reading habits. They just have to pull up their big-person pants and take responsibility for themselves.

And this isn't about using erotica to be a health nurse if you want to do that--it's about the health nurse saying that every erotica story should/must do that.
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Old 01-15-2013, 01:32 AM   #92
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This one is for you guys

In writing my latest werewolf safe sex scene (ROFLOL!) I have managed to slip in a dancing squid (LMFAO!). I did it for all of you who contributed so kindly to this early thread I posted.

You guys are an inspiration. I you all.

I will write the blogpost soon! I've been a bit distracted by new story, work-y stuff, bit of editing and my main mission in life: doing the Stepford thing with style.

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Old 01-15-2013, 03:40 AM   #93
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And how many condoms does a dancing squid have to wear to be safe?
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Old 01-15-2013, 06:06 AM   #94
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Oh! The dog-whistle bizness is OK if your audience are born again KoolAid drinkers (Jim Jones killed more people with Kool Aid than guns ever did) who demand sermons based on the Gospels. And every writer needs to decide if she's gonna be like Salvation Army and serve a sermon with every plate of sliced turkey and pork & beans.
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Old 01-15-2013, 06:32 AM   #95
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And how many condoms does a dancing squid have to wear to be safe?
ROFLOL! That is very very silly.

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Old 01-15-2013, 03:19 PM   #96
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It really is the story that provides the opportunity to 'preach' safe sex.
I'm writing a story that demands a level of safe sex, but it's not Gay Male and there is no poo, thank god.

I don't think that all stories should push safe sex, but some of them should show that STD's and pregnancies do occur and need to be considered when you do get to the final push.
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Old 01-15-2013, 04:22 PM   #97
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It really is the story that provides the opportunity to 'preach' safe sex.
I'm writing a story that demands a level of safe sex, but it's not Gay Male and there is no poo, thank god.

I don't think that all stories should push safe sex, but some of them should show that STD's and pregnancies do occur and need to be considered when you do get to the final push.


That's what I think.

And I think it's fun to see if you can slip it in, as smoothly as a slippery dancing squid, without the reader going: WTF! Or, Boring, I didn't come here for a lesson in safe sex.

LOL

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Old 01-15-2013, 06:07 PM   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NaokoSmith View Post


That's what I think.

And I think it's fun to see if you can slip it in, as smoothly as a slippery dancing squid, without the reader going: WTF! Or, Boring, I didn't come here for a lesson in safe sex.

LOL

Bravo on this post! How many double entendres can dance on the head of a dancing squid?
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Old 01-16-2013, 01:25 AM   #99
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Talking

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stella_Omega View Post
Bravo on this post! How many double entendres can dance on the head of a dancing squid?
ROFLOL!

As many as angels on the head of a pin?

Mem. Must ask for dancing squidicon.

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Old 01-22-2013, 08:44 AM   #100
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Sorry for reviving a thread that's a bit old. However, I was directed to this thread by someone linking to it in a more recent thread. Plus, unlike most of the threads in this forum I actually have an opinion on this topic.

Whenever I occasionally plop out a smutty story I never concern myself with realism. If I were worried about realism I'd have to stop writing what it is I like to write. I live realism, I sure as shit don't need to write about it.

There seems to an attitude by some in this thread that writers of porn stories are morally obligated to include safe sex practices and messages in their stories "for the children". Or something like that. A pure load of a smelly brown substance that attracts flies.

Anyone foolish enough to be swayed into either practicing or not practicing safe sex because of a porn story they read on the internet is so incredibly idiotic as to be fully deserving of the Darwin Award they will inevitably receive.

Seriously, what sort of utter fucking moron would think, "Well shit, my favorite porn writer on the internet just wrote a story where all the characters fucked each without using condoms. That means I don't need to use condoms either."

I find condoms to at best a necessary evil and generally not all that fun to use. I have never once thought to myself, "Woohoo! I get to use a condom!" I sure as hell don't want to write about the fucking things in my crappy little porn stories.

To me condoms are like a salad. Sure it's healthier than the alternative but I'd still rather have the greasy burger and fries.

TL;DR: I (occasionally) write smut. Not safe sex adverts.
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