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Old 11-22-2012, 02:53 PM   #1
joelafayette
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Begging for review and help

I'm jealous. Some of you write and get so much good feedback. I need that help too, I just am not sure how to get it. I am getting good votes and asked for feedback in the new story ads, but have zero comment so far. I want to be a comment whore. Please help me.

I have several more stories in draft mode exploring the first time genre, and I want to know what isn't working based on my story recently submitted before finishing.

If you could pass on any feedback to me on this story below, I would be very appreciative.

I broke it into three chapters, but each one has a conclusion and natural stopping point. ch1 is more f/f, chapters 2 and 3 are mf and anal.

http://www.literotica.com/s/for-claudia-ch-01
http://www.literotica.com/s/for-claudia-ch-02
http://www.literotica.com/s/for-claudia-ch-03
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Old 11-22-2012, 06:13 PM   #2
CWatson
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Well first off, someone correct me if I am wrong, since I have testicles and would be the last to know for certain... But I'm fairly sure that this is not anywhere near how women actually talk or think. The whole second-through-fourth paragraph is way more detailed than is realistic, or necessary, and then the un-bra-ing thing... Also, judging by your screen name you have more experience with the Latino community than I, but Claudia seems... rather more liberal than I would expect. (Then again, check out mine own stories for my nightmare experiences with Christianity, and all the proof you need that I don't have anything near a balanced view of it.)

The whole story has some very... racial vibes to it. Once again, I misdoubt my own experiences: I live in the Silicon Valley, where diversity is a way of life and making judgments--even positive ones--about someone based on their skin color is one of the most gauche things you can do. I don't know what it's like anywhere else in the world. So let's just say that this "exotic latinas" and "'black power' as a euphemism for penis" stuff is uncomfortable to me, and that your mileage may vary.

And then all this stuff about the cock-sucking... I'm sorry, but I stop believing it. There are simply too many weird, contradictory things going around here that you're just throwing at The Reader and expecting them to accept. I do not accept. I simply do not believe that actual human beings act this way. There are just too many fetishes being piled on. Fantasies are fantasies, and they don't have to be realistic, but the less realistic they are, the more readers you throw off the train. And suffice it to say that, were I reading for fun, this would be the moment that I hit [BACK] and was gone for good.

So, basically, I don't think I can much help you. Keep writing, and enjoy yourself, but this isn't the sort of thing I can get my head around.
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Old 11-22-2012, 11:08 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CWatson View Post
Well first off, someone correct me if I am wrong, since I have testicles and would be the last to know for certain... But I'm fairly sure that this is not anywhere near how women actually talk or think.
Women think and behave in as many diverse and different ways as men. We're not a homogeneous mass of replicoids.

However, I'll go so far as to admit the woman who acts and thinks like Claudia is probably very, very rare.

That's not necessarily a black mark in a sexual fantasy though. We call them 'fantasies' for a reason.


Anyway - to the author: You need to break your monster paragraphs into many more friendly ones.

I'll admit, I only read the first page, it was just so difficult to read and I didn't like any of the characters enough to push on.

Your writing style is, well, pretty dull too. I like a little description, a little simile and a little poetic flare in my prose and you have none of that.

You seem to have no way to say a rose is red other than 'that rose is red' and no way to say a woman is attractive than 'that woman is attractive'. In a pinch you're willing to make a list of body parts and note that they conform to standard cultural norms of beauty, but that's it.

Like I said, I never read past the first page, but that's a terrible way to write a sex scene (I imagine the story has those) and I doubt it's sexy at all when it does get there.

All in all, I didn't like it much at all. Sorry.
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Old 11-23-2012, 05:36 AM   #4
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I've been trying to figure out what it is about this story that rubs me so badly the wrong way, and I think I figured it out. Simply put, you're being lazy.

Your characters don't have any back story or personality. Or rather, they do, a little, but only so much as is required for you to tell the story you want. For instance, you want Claudia to appeal to the virgin-whore dichotomy by being an excellent cocksucker but still being a technical virgin. Okay, cool. What in her personality makes her do this? How does this make sense to her? You aren't very specific about it. "Oh, I like the power of making a guy cum." How did she end up making that compromise? Why does she like facials? "Oh, the right guy never happened." How did she know that? What criteria did she make to determine it? These are all questions that get into the heart of her psychology and her personality... But because, to your mind, the story is just about the turn-ons, you don't answer. It's enough to you that she exists, not that she make sense. "This is what I want, and so she's going to be that way because reasons." Uh-huh.

So now we have Claudia. Since she has no personality (since you have, essentially, forbidden her from having a personality) her entire appeal lies in the turn-ons she personifies. The problem is that turn-ons do not have inherent sexual value. Just because you like (BM WF interr) (technical virgins) (anal) (blondes) whatever doesn't mean that anyone else does, or that anyone else finds it a turn-on. Even worse, one man's fetish is another man's squick, and the very things you're counting on to make Claudia appealing could be the cause of an automatic [BACK] instead. Your characters need to have personality outside of Tab A going into Slot B. If they are not interesting and lovable for their own sake, not just for what they do in the bedroom, the story is over.

And on top of that the damn fetishes themselves are clichés. "Exotic beauty"--just about the only thing more hackneyed is "black man with large endowment," and you hit that too. A cliche is when you toss something at The Reader and just assume it's going to work without your explaining or justifying it. Laaaaazy. And let's also not even get into how you are objectifying your characters, men and women both, by evaluating their worth solely using ethnic stereotypes.

To paraphrase John Rogers, the showrunner for Leverage, "The three questions that screenwriting boils down to are, Who is this person, What do they want, and Why do I give a shit." By neglecting your characters' personality, you flunk the first question. The second gets answered--sex--but it loses potency without the context of the other two answers. Everyone wants sex. Why should I care about Claudia? Your answer ends up being, "Because she's a walking list of all the things I think are hot." Well, good for you, but that doesn't explain why I should care about Claudia. And I don't. And things go downhill from there.

If you want to explore your turn-ons, go for it. A healthy fantasy life is always a good thing. But there's a line between fantasy and story, and your text hasn't yet managed to cross it.


[EDIT] My apologies: I messed up John Rogers' words of wisdom. The exact quotation, as seen here, is, "The main three rules of all storytelling: who wants what, why can't they have it, and why do I give a sh**." Similar to what I claimed, but not the same.
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to write, but may not make sense.
Refrigerator."

"The plural of 'Surgeon General' is 'Surgeons General.' The past tense of 'Surgeons General' is 'Surgeonsed General.' "

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Here is my story site, which has more material on it than my Literotica page. Oh, and, I'm now on Facebook!

Last edited by CWatson : 11-23-2012 at 07:56 PM.
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Old 11-23-2012, 04:11 PM   #5
PennLady
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I wish I could give you more feedback, but I couldn't get past about halfway down the first page. I'm female, and have my own likes and dislikes, so I'm not saying this stuff applies to anyone but me.

Claudia's on my nerves already. I didn't need that detailed description of her body or anything else -- it makes her sound quite full of herself, despite the "I wasn't arrogant" disclaimer. No one goes into this kind of detail unless in fact they are pretty taken with themselves.

Then the whole "I love to suck cock" thing -- ugh. That's a pretty cliche fantasy for guys I suppose, and I'm sure there are women who do love it like that, but this makes Claudia seem less like a person and more like a porn stereotype. So as CWatson says, why should I care about Claudia? There's nothing here to care about.

I'm sure many people will enjoy this, but I'm not one of them. Sorry.
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Old 11-24-2012, 09:28 AM   #6
joelafayette
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Wow, brutally honest feedback. Hard to hear for sure, but it's exactly what I needed. This will definitely help my future writing. I know this represents big chunk of time for you guys to give me this detailed quality feedback, so I thank you sincerely.

If anyone else wants to add input, the more the better. So far each reviewer has said something slightly different that will help me.
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Old 11-24-2012, 10:18 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joelafayette View Post
Wow, brutally honest feedback. Hard to hear for sure, but it's exactly what I needed. This will definitely help my future writing. I know this represents big chunk of time for you guys to give me this detailed quality feedback, so I thank you sincerely.

If anyone else wants to add input, the more the better. So far each reviewer has said something slightly different that will help me.
I was told by a very wise and very sucessful author many years ago that the key to writing fiction of any genre is to write about what you know!
My experience in both my own writing and that of others is that particularly when using first person men should stick to male characters and women likewise. Both have different mind sets and I can't begin to count the number of novels that I have dropped after a couple of chapters or less because he/she 'would nopt do that/think like that/feel that way.
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Old 12-01-2012, 07:22 AM   #8
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You have some very high scores. You must be doing something right. I strongly suspect your characters are likeable to a certain type of person. I think the reason you aren't getting more feedback is that you are writing for a very mainstream audience and those types don't like to write criticiques very much. I have a hunch that a lot of why your series is falling flat with other authors is that you are writing about the kind of people we got bullied by in school and not in a manner that fetishises their less kindly behavior. I have to confess I made it about halfway through the first page before I could no longer get past how venal I found Claudia. She's boring to me, but I think that would make her appealing to a lot of men. Keep writing and don't sweat the feedback. Obviously you have a style that keeps readers happy based on your scores.
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Old 12-01-2012, 09:12 AM   #9
NekoParks
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joelafayette View Post
Wow, brutally honest feedback. Hard to hear for sure, but it's exactly what I needed. This will definitely help my future writing. I know this represents big chunk of time for you guys to give me this detailed quality feedback, so I thank you sincerely.

If anyone else wants to add input, the more the better. So far each reviewer has said something slightly different that will help me.
I really admire your courage in inviting criticism of your writing. I read all three chapters, so here goes my advice to you as a writer:

1. Perfect characters are boring for most readers. Flaws invite the reader to emotionally connect with the characters.

2. Your sex scenes read more like a fetish take-out menu. You are telling the reader what is happening instead of showing how the sex is affecting your characters' emotions. Also, too many clichés are used in your story.

3. I recommend that you read some really well written erotica like Henry Miller or Anise Nin or Pauline Reage—or maybe even Anne Rice’s Sleeping Beauty books or Exit to Eden or Emma Holly’s Ménage. Also, Joey W. Hill writes both male and female characters with depth and passion. The best teachers are other writers. Find a story that you admire, and then, analyze the plot, characterizations, dialogue, description-- try to articulate to yourself what the writer is doing in the story.

4. Do not stop writing. Like I said before, I admire your courage as a writer to actually invite criticism. Take care!
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Old 07-06-2013, 01:09 PM   #10
joelafayette
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I got a lot of good feedback the last time around, which I hope helped my latest stories. I have a new one up now. I appreciate any feedback, even the brutal kind if applicable:

http://www.literotica.com/s/amys-evolution
http://www.literotica.com/s/amys-evolution-ch-02
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