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Old 11-20-2012, 01:20 AM   #1
Brave Maximus
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Question of the day - What do you like/go after more? (for women)

Hello all,

After some.... interesting situations with women recently (IE last 6 months), I've been left with some conundrums. Well, actually they're the same conundrums as always - What makes women act the way they do.

Yes, I understand, were the "good" girls poled, they would say they're looking for a nice guy, they're attracted to a smile or brains or someone who rescues puppies while being nice to children and wearing a uniform. But, for the rest of the world, we know what happens to the nice guys.
I am one, but I also have a few other things going for me - and it's those things that get noticed... let me explain:

An ex-gf of mine was trying to set me up on a date, and I'm betting she thought I couldn't hear her talk... I guess the conversation wasn't going so well when she was describing me and trying to talk the other girl into it - then she said I had a giant cock. Girl agrees, and all through the first date, she's shooting glances at my crotch...

Spot a girl at an event, she's hot, but not paying attention to me, until someone points out that I'm sponsoring the event and a few others around the city. She walks over, some small talk, she asks if I'll buy her a drink, to which I agree. She orders some serious top-shelf stuff and I suddenly realize why she's paying attention.

I guess, what I'm asking/commenting on is:

How often would girls here be interested in me if, instead of my usual post about being a nice guy and what not, I just said: Hey, I'm hung, and unless I'm REALLY stupid, I'll never have to work for the rest of my life, nor will my kids, or grand kids.

Seriously, I'm wondering.

And beyond this: Girls - what are you attracted to? Being a nice guy doesn't cut it, that's obvious, so what does do the trick?
__________________
How am I going to be an optimist about this.....?


I was left to my own devices
Many days fell away with nothing to show

We were caught up and lost in all of our vices
In your pose as the dust settled around us

Oh where do we begin?
The rubble or our sins?
Oh oh where do we begin?
The rubble or our sins?

And the walls kept tumbling down
In the city that we love
Grey clouds roll over the hills
Bringing darkness from above

But if you close your eyes,
Does it almost feel like
Nothing changed at all?
And if you close your eyes,
Does it almost feel like
You've been here before?
How am I gonna be an optimist about this?
How am I gonna be an optimist about this?

If you close your eyes, does it almost feel like nothing changed at all?

Pompeii - Bastille
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-20-2012, 03:06 AM   #2
wynterskies1
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Your problem isn't that being a nice person isn't enough, but that you come across as shallow and sexist.

You started off wrong by asking what makes us women "act the way they do" as though we're all the same. Thinking of women as a commodified unit is a real turn off. Thinking that there's a "trick" to getting women to like you is a real turn off. We're individuals and we all have different preferences. There's no "trick" to meeting a friend, right? If someone likes you, they like you.

Calling grown women "girls" is a turn off, too. I'm young yet and I don't like being called "girl" by men. It sounds disrespectful.

Maybe the two women you described were just shallow, too, but that doesn't speak for all women. It's more likely that the woman being set up with you just wanted sex if she's only interested in your cock, or that she was only humoring your ex-gf by accepting the date. It's more likely that the woman who met you at the event was attracted to you because she also agreed with the event's cause, or because she was already attracted to you and couldn't figure out how to approach you before she found out you sponsored the event and so had an excuse to say hi. She wasn't ignoring you, but what excuse would she have to introduce herself before that? And how can you judge her when the only reason you seem to have been attracted to her is because she is hot.

I might have been attracted to you if you were actually a nice person. Nice people don't treat women like we're a different species with a single set of motivations and behavioral trends that men simply can't figure out. All people are complicated. There's no formula for meeting people who share interests. Half of life is chance.

Lastly, your wealth and cock size are turn offs to me, which goes to show not all women want the same things. I appreciate people who understand firsthand what most of my family went through being poor or middle class. I'm not likely to be able to take a giant cock being so small boned. If you were really a nice person, I might feel a wee bit more inclined to overlook those things and see if we have any common ground.

You'll be better off if you start thinking of women as the complex individuals which we are and accepting that finding a partner is in part about luck.

On an unrelated note, I came here to experiment with my sexuality. I'm disappointed at how many people there are on Literotica who are sexist or racist or just clueless or all of the above. A pity!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brave Maximus View Post
Hello all,

After some.... interesting situations with women recently (IE last 6 months), I've been left with some conundrums. Well, actually they're the same conundrums as always - What makes women act the way they do.

Yes, I understand, were the "good" girls poled, they would say they're looking for a nice guy, they're attracted to a smile or brains or someone who rescues puppies while being nice to children and wearing a uniform. But, for the rest of the world, we know what happens to the nice guys.
I am one, but I also have a few other things going for me - and it's those things that get noticed... let me explain:

An ex-gf of mine was trying to set me up on a date, and I'm betting she thought I couldn't hear her talk... I guess the conversation wasn't going so well when she was describing me and trying to talk the other girl into it - then she said I had a giant cock. Girl agrees, and all through the first date, she's shooting glances at my crotch...

Spot a girl at an event, she's hot, but not paying attention to me, until someone points out that I'm sponsoring the event and a few others around the city. She walks over, some small talk, she asks if I'll buy her a drink, to which I agree. She orders some serious top-shelf stuff and I suddenly realize why she's paying attention.

I guess, what I'm asking/commenting on is:

How often would girls here be interested in me if, instead of my usual post about being a nice guy and what not, I just said: Hey, I'm hung, and unless I'm REALLY stupid, I'll never have to work for the rest of my life, nor will my kids, or grand kids.

Seriously, I'm wondering.

And beyond this: Girls - what are you attracted to? Being a nice guy doesn't cut it, that's obvious, so what does do the trick?
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Last edited by wynterskies1 : 11-20-2012 at 03:21 AM.
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Old 11-20-2012, 03:11 AM   #3
LongDrySpell
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Yes, if you said you were hung and rich, you'd get lots of responses. But are those the type of girls you want to attract? If so, then go for it.

And to address the other issue: if I see you at a bar, or club, or whatever, I have no way of knowing if you're a nice guy. Even if you told me that you're a nice guy, why should I believe you? There has to be something to draw me in. You could wear tight pants, or flash some cash around, but again, that would get you a particular type of woman. But, if we make eye contact and you flash me a confident smile, I'm hooked. Or at least intrigued.

Now, if I met you at some charity event, I'd probably assume you were a nice guy.

One other thing: at least for me, "nice" is necessary, but not sufficient. What else are you? (Besides hung and rich.) Intelligent? Funny? Politically involved? What makes you interesting?

OK, it's 2 am, and I might be so tired that none of this is remotely coherent. If that's the case, my apologies.
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Old 11-20-2012, 03:18 AM   #4
wynterskies1
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Can I just say that I, for one, think you were very coherent, LongDrySpell? Well said! Your list of needs (nice, intelligent, funny, politically involved, so on) is spot on. I quite agree that showing off his wealth will only attract people who want wealth more than him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LongDrySpell View Post
Yes, if you said you were hung and rich, you'd get lots of responses. But are those the type of girls you want to attract? If so, then go for it.

And to address the other issue: if I see you at a bar, or club, or whatever, I have no way of knowing if you're a nice guy. Even if you told me that you're a nice guy, why should I believe you? There has to be something to draw me in. You could wear tight pants, or flash some cash around, but again, that would get you a particular type of woman. But, if we make eye contact and you flash me a confident smile, I'm hooked. Or at least intrigued.

Now, if I met you at some charity event, I'd probably assume you were a nice guy.

One other thing: at least for me, "nice" is necessary, but not sufficient. What else are you? (Besides hung and rich.) Intelligent? Funny? Politically involved? What makes you interesting?

OK, it's 2 am, and I might be so tired that none of this is remotely coherent. If that's the case, my apologies.
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Old 11-20-2012, 03:33 AM   #5
Brave Maximus
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That is the first time I have ever been called sexist. Ever.

Secondly, I'm not entirely sure you actually read what I wrote, or just skimmed over and took the "I'm affronted" stance. I say this, because the only mention of the word "trick" was at the end of my post, in a colloquial expression that means "what does it for you" or "what's the thing that works". Instead you took it to mean "how can I mislead you", which would seem a silly thing to say, given the nature of the thread.

And there are actually "tricks" to meeting friends (in this case meaning things that can be done to increase your chances, again not in the context of misdirection): One can go to places where you are more likely to meet people that share a similar interest, music style, lifestyle, movie interest, love for small furry gerbils, that sort of thing. In this thread, I am inquiring as to what the superficial qualities are that attract someone, and why that specifically. Style over substance, as it were.

There are actually quite a few instances of you skimming over what I posted to suit your rant. I'm sure the young lady was interested in the same cause, as she was solo - unless she was there to be seen, that happens quite a bit. As for her being attracted before-hand, I may have agreed to that, had she not ordered something by looking right-to-left on the drinks list. As for the first girl, I do believe I mentioned that I could hear the conversation, though my ex wouldn't have continued, had she known. You make quite a few assumptions.

I doubt you would like me. You came in confrontational. I'm all for a good conversation on the merits of Man/Woman communication and it's shortfallings in each instance - but this wasn't a conversation, this was a confrontation. I am actually a nice guy. I'm the guy who holds doors, genuinely enjoys talking about a person's day, give my last cent to the homeless guy because he obviously needs some food more than I need a chocolate bar, and all the other things one could measure. I'm also damn humble .
I have never lumped women into one group - with a unified thought, goal and motivation. Even in this thread, I asked for people's input and thoughts - expecting multiple women to give their point of view (and even some guys, if they were brave enough, though after this, they'd be smart to keep away).

To continue - You made the assumption that I was born to money. This would be incorrect. You also assume that I think that a big cock is the be all and end of sexual experience. I know first-hand that size can actually be a problem, and cause pain and discomfort, especially in the hands of someone uncarring and callus. But, because of popular media - it seems that a lot of women are lead to believe that these are the things that should be sought after, as opposed to someone who will actually care about you and treat you with respect before and after the bed.

I was curious about the superficial (and I mean beyond looks, I mean the truly superficial) - Why money, why a large cock? Are they ment as show pieces or does one truly enjoy being taken care of .... in both respects? What about cars? The way a person dresses? Dollar for dollar, you could spend as much on a sports car and sean jean clothing as you would a rolls and an armani suit, but there is a definate preference in certian circles to one or the other, and I would like to know who likes what.

Perhaps you could ask about me, and find the common ground, but I think you had your mind made up when you read the thread title. I could be wrong though, and am willing to listen.
__________________
How am I going to be an optimist about this.....?


I was left to my own devices
Many days fell away with nothing to show

We were caught up and lost in all of our vices
In your pose as the dust settled around us

Oh where do we begin?
The rubble or our sins?
Oh oh where do we begin?
The rubble or our sins?

And the walls kept tumbling down
In the city that we love
Grey clouds roll over the hills
Bringing darkness from above

But if you close your eyes,
Does it almost feel like
Nothing changed at all?
And if you close your eyes,
Does it almost feel like
You've been here before?
How am I gonna be an optimist about this?
How am I gonna be an optimist about this?

If you close your eyes, does it almost feel like nothing changed at all?

Pompeii - Bastille
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Old 11-20-2012, 03:34 AM   #6
blobfish
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I like how the rich guy with the huge dick is trolling a porn board for ass. I think Howard Huge over here might have a case of the Dusty Springfields (wishin' and hopin').
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Old 11-20-2012, 03:49 AM   #7
Brave Maximus
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LongDrySpell View Post
Yes, if you said you were hung and rich, you'd get lots of responses. But are those the type of girls you want to attract? If so, then go for it.

And to address the other issue: if I see you at a bar, or club, or whatever, I have no way of knowing if you're a nice guy. Even if you told me that you're a nice guy, why should I believe you? There has to be something to draw me in. You could wear tight pants, or flash some cash around, but again, that would get you a particular type of woman. But, if we make eye contact and you flash me a confident smile, I'm hooked. Or at least intrigued.

Now, if I met you at some charity event, I'd probably assume you were a nice guy.

One other thing: at least for me, "nice" is necessary, but not sufficient. What else are you? (Besides hung and rich.) Intelligent? Funny? Politically involved? What makes you interesting?

OK, it's 2 am, and I might be so tired that none of this is remotely coherent. If that's the case, my apologies.

See this? This is the kind of response I was hoping for!
Not only does it actually answer the questions posed, but gives more insight than I was expecting! (and it actually restores my faith in humanity a little).

And you actually wouldn't believe how many people are grumpy and unpleasant at charity events. Most of them would rather not be there, or are there to be seen like they're doing something good. I've always wondered why, if it's a waste of your time, you come to it. But, they come, and I won't complain in the slightest. The grumpy ones, for some reason, also donate the most - and anything to help the charity.



And to say, were I trolling for ass, there's a lot easier ways to go about it, especially on lit. But thanks for adding your 2 cents.
__________________
How am I going to be an optimist about this.....?


I was left to my own devices
Many days fell away with nothing to show

We were caught up and lost in all of our vices
In your pose as the dust settled around us

Oh where do we begin?
The rubble or our sins?
Oh oh where do we begin?
The rubble or our sins?

And the walls kept tumbling down
In the city that we love
Grey clouds roll over the hills
Bringing darkness from above

But if you close your eyes,
Does it almost feel like
Nothing changed at all?
And if you close your eyes,
Does it almost feel like
You've been here before?
How am I gonna be an optimist about this?
How am I gonna be an optimist about this?

If you close your eyes, does it almost feel like nothing changed at all?

Pompeii - Bastille
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Old 11-20-2012, 03:58 AM   #8
blobfish
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brave Maximus View Post
But thanks for adding your 2 cents.
No problem. Was that also the amount on your last bank statement?
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Old 11-20-2012, 04:04 AM   #9
Brave Maximus
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blobfish View Post
No problem. Was that also the amount on your last bank statement?
You.... still get bank statements? Most stuff is done online now, isn't it? I did away with a paper statement probably 2-3 years ago, can access most things online, though I do get a statement of earnings quarterly. Besides, it's not the account that is the true measure, but investments and ownership.

Nice try though - not sure why you want to know - ah well
__________________
How am I going to be an optimist about this.....?


I was left to my own devices
Many days fell away with nothing to show

We were caught up and lost in all of our vices
In your pose as the dust settled around us

Oh where do we begin?
The rubble or our sins?
Oh oh where do we begin?
The rubble or our sins?

And the walls kept tumbling down
In the city that we love
Grey clouds roll over the hills
Bringing darkness from above

But if you close your eyes,
Does it almost feel like
Nothing changed at all?
And if you close your eyes,
Does it almost feel like
You've been here before?
How am I gonna be an optimist about this?
How am I gonna be an optimist about this?

If you close your eyes, does it almost feel like nothing changed at all?

Pompeii - Bastille
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-20-2012, 04:17 AM   #10
wynterskies1
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To be clear, never having been called 'sexist' before doesn't mean that someone isn't sexist. And I didn't say that you're undoubtably sexist. I said that you come across as sexist.

I read your post carefully. We simply disagree on how you come across to others.

I know what you meant by "trick" and I still disagree with you. It was a disrespectful choice of words given the context of your post. First, you implied that women desire money and giant cock more than we desire real intimacy with someone we've just met. When you say "trick" in that setting, it automatically takes on the secondary meaning of "what key points do I have to hit to attract women?" as though there are any such universal points. No one is arguing that there aren't ways to find people with whom you'll share interests by going to an event where like-minded people will show.

If you're wondering why, from a social and cultural perspective, people are attracted to superficial things, then you could have said that. If you're only asking about what superficial qualities attract women, you're already going the wrong way. There's no set of superficial qualities that attract all women. There's no nice man I know who'd be more concerned about using superficial qualities as bait to hook a partner (sounds like a trick to me) than he is on what he can do to be the most self-aware and caring person he can be.

If you're such a nice guy, why are you so concerned with sports cars and fancy suits? No one looking for more than a one-night stand or wealth cares about those things. You know what's sexy? Authenticity. Comfortable clothes. The desire to help others and live an honest life. Spending the money you would have spent on some uselessly expensive wrist watch on an eco-friendly watch and using the all the leftover funds to help homeless people or save wildlife. Proving repeatedly throughout your whole life that these are your values by taking actions to support those values. There's nothing sexy about an Armani suit. Having such a suit means that you spend your money on things that don't do any lasting good when you'd be just as successful in a less expensive suit, anyway.

If someone looks right-to-left on a menu, it's often because they don't want to buy something too expensive. This can be to save one's own money or to be polite to the person buying your drink. When I'm out with a friend who's offered to pay for lunch, I always take the prices into consideration so that if I don't win our playful fight over the bill, at least I won't be handing my friend a rudely large bill.

I know that your ex-girlfriend thought that you couldn't hear her, but that doesn't change the fact that her friend might have any number of reasons for accepting a date with you besides that you have a big cock. You're not in your blind date's head, so consider that she might have different motives than the one you thought up.

You're the one making the assumptions.

If you go to a public forum and make all sorts of foolish comments that make you seem shallow and sexist, then you should expect to be confronted. It's sexist to dismiss a woman's comment as 'too confrontational' just because you don't like it. Sexist men are always playing that card.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Brave Maximus View Post
That is the first time I have ever been called sexist. Ever.

Secondly, I'm not entirely sure you actually read what I wrote, or just skimmed over and took the "I'm affronted" stance. I say this, because the only mention of the word "trick" was at the end of my post, in a colloquial expression that means "what does it for you" or "what's the thing that works". Instead you took it to mean "how can I mislead you", which would seem a silly thing to say, given the nature of the thread.

And there are actually "tricks" to meeting friends (in this case meaning things that can be done to increase your chances, again not in the context of misdirection): One can go to places where you are more likely to meet people that share a similar interest, music style, lifestyle, movie interest, love for small furry gerbils, that sort of thing. In this thread, I am inquiring as to what the superficial qualities are that attract someone, and why that specifically. Style over substance, as it were.

There are actually quite a few instances of you skimming over what I posted to suit your rant. I'm sure the young lady was interested in the same cause, as she was solo - unless she was there to be seen, that happens quite a bit. As for her being attracted before-hand, I may have agreed to that, had she not ordered something by looking right-to-left on the drinks list. As for the first girl, I do believe I mentioned that I could hear the conversation, though my ex wouldn't have continued, had she known. You make quite a few assumptions.

I doubt you would like me. You came in confrontational. I'm all for a good conversation on the merits of Man/Woman communication and it's shortfallings in each instance - but this wasn't a conversation, this was a confrontation. I am actually a nice guy. I'm the guy who holds doors, genuinely enjoys talking about a person's day, give my last cent to the homeless guy because he obviously needs some food more than I need a chocolate bar, and all the other things one could measure. I'm also damn humble .
I have never lumped women into one group - with a unified thought, goal and motivation. Even in this thread, I asked for people's input and thoughts - expecting multiple women to give their point of view (and even some guys, if they were brave enough, though after this, they'd be smart to keep away).

To continue - You made the assumption that I was born to money. This would be incorrect. You also assume that I think that a big cock is the be all and end of sexual experience. I know first-hand that size can actually be a problem, and cause pain and discomfort, especially in the hands of someone uncarring and callus. But, because of popular media - it seems that a lot of women are lead to believe that these are the things that should be sought after, as opposed to someone who will actually care about you and treat you with respect before and after the bed.

I was curious about the superficial (and I mean beyond looks, I mean the truly superficial) - Why money, why a large cock? Are they ment as show pieces or does one truly enjoy being taken care of .... in both respects? What about cars? The way a person dresses? Dollar for dollar, you could spend as much on a sports car and sean jean clothing as you would a rolls and an armani suit, but there is a definate preference in certian circles to one or the other, and I would like to know who likes what.

Perhaps you could ask about me, and find the common ground, but I think you had your mind made up when you read the thread title. I could be wrong though, and am willing to listen.
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Old 11-20-2012, 04:22 AM   #11
blobfish
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brave Maximus View Post
You.... still get bank statements? Most stuff is done online now, isn't it? I did away with a paper statement probably 2-3 years ago, can access most things online, though I do get a statement of earnings quarterly. Besides, it's not the account that is the true measure, but investments and ownership.

Nice try though - not sure why you want to know - ah well
What I'm getting at here is that you're pretty clearly playing a character, and not a very good one, as it's morphed into a caricature.

For the record, the character you're portraying is pretty clearly sexist, and I'm not somebody to go around calling people sexist for no reason. You assumed that all or most women are interested primarily in money and penis size, something that I know for a fact is untrue. Your signature is a nice cherry on top.

I await your fifteen paragraph response with bated breath.
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Old 11-20-2012, 04:29 AM   #12
wynterskies1
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That's just classist, Maximus. I know plenty of people who don't have a computer or aren't good at using one. Poor and middle class people are more likely to get paper bank statements. It's also just smart to have a paper trail of your money so long as it's well kept. My bank statements have helped me to keep the bank from trying to rip me off many times.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brave Maximus View Post
You.... still get bank statements? Most stuff is done online now, isn't it? I did away with a paper statement probably 2-3 years ago, can access most things online, though I do get a statement of earnings quarterly. Besides, it's not the account that is the true measure, but investments and ownership.

Nice try though - not sure why you want to know - ah well
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Old 11-20-2012, 04:41 AM   #13
kiwi_submissive
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One of my friends couldn't get a date. He is a really nice guy and I couldn't figure out why not. He bought a really nice car and females were falling all over themselves to go out on dates with him and sleep with him. He sold the car and hasn't had a date or gotten laid since.

Another friend jokingly painted his bus card gold so it looks like a gold credit card in his wallet. He said it's hilarious how many females comment on his "goldcard" when he opens his waller and will ask him to buy them drinks.

I have alot of male friends and it is actually quite funny to watch how predatory females are when they think they are going to get something for free ie dinner, drinks, movies etc and how quickly they move onto the next guy when they realise they won't get anything. I have the opposite problem and have had arguments with males when I have insisted on paying for dinner.
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Old 11-20-2012, 04:49 AM   #14
Brave Maximus
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Nah... forget responding to Wynter....
She's made up her mind - and as much as it hurts me to be called sexist and classist, it's by someone on the net. And one obviously prejudice. (oh, and I bet it was my sig quote/song that pissed you off, wasn't it?)

As for Blob....(editing this, so I can't see their screen name). It's very obvious you're white knighting here. Playing your own character so girls will go "Oh wow, look at him - showing up the guy on the internet".

Both of you seem to have missed the point, while two people actually fully caught it.

I think I'll continue on with the fun conversation.
__________________
How am I going to be an optimist about this.....?


I was left to my own devices
Many days fell away with nothing to show

We were caught up and lost in all of our vices
In your pose as the dust settled around us

Oh where do we begin?
The rubble or our sins?
Oh oh where do we begin?
The rubble or our sins?

And the walls kept tumbling down
In the city that we love
Grey clouds roll over the hills
Bringing darkness from above

But if you close your eyes,
Does it almost feel like
Nothing changed at all?
And if you close your eyes,
Does it almost feel like
You've been here before?
How am I gonna be an optimist about this?
How am I gonna be an optimist about this?

If you close your eyes, does it almost feel like nothing changed at all?

Pompeii - Bastille

Last edited by Brave Maximus : 11-20-2012 at 04:54 AM.
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Old 11-20-2012, 04:50 AM   #15
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I'm sorry that so many people you know are so shallow, Kiwi. I guess it's hard to blame the one of my friends who is like that because it is still harder for women to be respected and earn equal pay. I think she's like that because she feels insecure about her ability to earn for herself even though she's smart, educated, and capable. I think women are taught that they need men to provide for them, so that's where a lot of that attitude comes from.

For both Kiwi and Maximus, you might consider running in different circles if all the greed around you is getting you down. You might also consider that sometimes, when people are grabbing at other people's wealth, it's because they're afraid they can't make it on their own. It's actually very sad.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kiwi_submissive View Post
One of my friends couldn't get a date. He is a really nice guy and I couldn't figure out why not. He bought a really nice car and females were falling all over themselves to go out on dates with him and sleep with him. He sold the car and hasn't had a date or gotten laid since.

Another friend jokingly painted his bus card gold so it looks like a gold credit card in his wallet. He said it's hilarious how many females comment on his "goldcard" when he opens his waller and will ask him to buy them drinks.

I have alot of male friends and it is actually quite funny to watch how predatory females are when they think they are going to get something for free ie dinner, drinks, movies etc and how quickly they move onto the next guy when they realise they won't get anything. I have the opposite problem and have had arguments with males when I have insisted on paying for dinner.
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Old 11-20-2012, 04:53 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wynterskies1 View Post
I'm sorry that so many people you know are so shallow, Kiwi. I guess it's hard to blame the one of my friends who is like that because it is still harder for women to be respected and earn equal pay. I think she's like that because she feels insecure about her ability to earn for herself even though she's smart, educated, and capable. I think women are taught that they need men to provide for them, so that's where a lot of that attitude comes from.

For both Kiwi and Maximus, you might consider running in different circles if all the greed around you is getting you down. You might also consider that sometimes, when people are grabbing at other people's wealth, it's because they're afraid they can't make it on their own. It's actually very sad.
Meh, doesn't bother me. I just fine it funny that woman squeal for equality but they don't want to pay for half of anything without calling the guy a chauvanist pig.

Meh, I earn my own money, I buy my own drinks and I pay my own way. I have no issues with that but I find it sad that my friends have issues finding ladies that are interested in more than what they can buy them or what they own.
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Old 11-20-2012, 05:07 AM   #17
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See, this is exactly what I'm talking about and wondering about!

I will in no way say I'm great looking. Not ugly, but certainly not a head turner (at least, not looks wise - I'm kind of hard to miss otherwise). But once I got into certian things, started driving certain things, it changed. In perceived situations - women would be exactly as you said, falling all over themselves.

I want to know why though. What's the motivation?!? I mean, I can actually understand being attracted to a pretty face, or nice ass, or huge muscles... but cars/money/job? Does having a nice car to have sex in over rule your physical reactions to someone's looks? (IE: not the best looking guy, but he has a great car, so, lets play with him).

The gold card bit is actually hillarious! More for the fact that it actually worked. Painted gold and gold plastic (or red, or what ever) look very different (though, I guess in a club, it might be harder to see...).

I will say, that is something that I really like with a woman. That arguement over who pays. I was raised that the guy pays, no matter what (old school family. My great aunt would actually pass money to me to pay, when we went out for dinner... it was odd, but, it was who she was). After enough arguements with friends and dates, the best thing I've come up with is (after I try and pay) - if we're just going together (IE: Hey, are we going to meet for lunch after the event?) - then we pay for ourselves. If one person asks the other out, then that person pays, unless previously agreed upon. Blind dates (set up by friends and what not) - are a bit harder, and I try and get away with paying, though the argument makes me smile, because it means you're not after a free ride.

Back to the conversation at hand though Kiwi:
For the girls in the situations with your guy friends - have you noticed any specific age group? Younger, older, etc?
It could be because of the groups of people I've been dealing with recently, but I've been finding it's more the younger groups, like 24 and younger...




Quote:
Originally Posted by kiwi_submissive View Post
One of my friends couldn't get a date. He is a really nice guy and I couldn't figure out why not. He bought a really nice car and females were falling all over themselves to go out on dates with him and sleep with him. He sold the car and hasn't had a date or gotten laid since.

Another friend jokingly painted his bus card gold so it looks like a gold credit card in his wallet. He said it's hilarious how many females comment on his "goldcard" when he opens his waller and will ask him to buy them drinks.

I have alot of male friends and it is actually quite funny to watch how predatory females are when they think they are going to get something for free ie dinner, drinks, movies etc and how quickly they move onto the next guy when they realise they won't get anything. I have the opposite problem and have had arguments with males when I have insisted on paying for dinner.
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Old 11-20-2012, 05:15 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brave Maximus View Post
See, this is exactly what I'm talking about and wondering about!

I will in no way say I'm great looking. Not ugly, but certainly not a head turner (at least, not looks wise - I'm kind of hard to miss otherwise). But once I got into certian things, started driving certain things, it changed. In perceived situations - women would be exactly as you said, falling all over themselves.

I want to know why though. What's the motivation?!? I mean, I can actually understand being attracted to a pretty face, or nice ass, or huge muscles... but cars/money/job? Does having a nice car to have sex in over rule your physical reactions to someone's looks? (IE: not the best looking guy, but he has a great car, so, lets play with him).

The gold card bit is actually hillarious! More for the fact that it actually worked. Painted gold and gold plastic (or red, or what ever) look very different (though, I guess in a club, it might be harder to see...).

I will say, that is something that I really like with a woman. That arguement over who pays. I was raised that the guy pays, no matter what (old school family. My great aunt would actually pass money to me to pay, when we went out for dinner... it was odd, but, it was who she was). After enough arguements with friends and dates, the best thing I've come up with is (after I try and pay) - if we're just going together (IE: Hey, are we going to meet for lunch after the event?) - then we pay for ourselves. If one person asks the other out, then that person pays, unless previously agreed upon. Blind dates (set up by friends and what not) - are a bit harder, and I try and get away with paying, though the argument makes me smile, because it means you're not after a free ride.

Back to the conversation at hand though Kiwi:
For the girls in the situations with your guy friends - have you noticed any specific age group? Younger, older, etc?
It could be because of the groups of people I've been dealing with recently, but I've been finding it's more the younger groups, like 24 and younger...
Mmm I tend to notice it is the younger ones ie early 20's for things like cars, motorbikes and easily seen toys that they can show off or be seen with. They don't usually tend to last though as none of my friends would ever let their girlfriends drive their "babies".

Funnily enough the older guys fall for it and will buy them anything or pay for anything because they like to be seen with a young attractive female so I guess both sides get something out of it.
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Old 11-20-2012, 05:25 AM   #19
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You're hitting all of the "privilege bingo card" spots. If you're unfamiliar, look it up.

Sexist men always accuse outspoken women of "hating all men". There are plenty of lovely, non-sexist men in my life, thanks. Accusing strong and/or feminist women of "hating men" is just a poor way of trying to undermine the validity of my points. You think you can dismiss the complexity of my argument if you label me as a simple, uncomplicated person who couldn't possibly like men.

Did you even read my post? If you're asking women for their opinions, then why are you so focused on superficial qualities? And why did you start out by implying that women want wealth and giant cock? Why don't you ask us what each of us finds physically attractive? And do you truly think that the answers will surprise you if you asked us what individual women find physically appealing? You're bound to get varied answers. Why not try asking if there's someone here who is attracted to men in suits? That's sure to get better results for you.

You're also making all of the classic, misguided points that conservatives make. I don't begrudge success, I just have perspective. There's a difference between wearing a very nice tailored suit that your local tailor made because your job calls for fancy attire and wearing some overpriced name-brand suit just because you think that you need Armani to feel good or be successful. Also, working class people can and should have just as much pride in themselves. Work boots worn with pride are far sexier than a suit when it's worn by someone who's so rude as you. Clothes and big money aren't what determine your success. You can wear a nice suit and still be humble. You can have a trust fund and still be practical with your purchases, and not talk down to the working classes as you're doing.

Conservatives are always going on about how middle class people begrudge success and about their "responsibility" to benefit society. If you don't understand the difference between begrudging wealth and simply saying, "Hey, rich people don't really need to have so many outlandishly expensive suits/shoes/yachts/etc.," then you don't have any common sense. If you think that rich people shouldn't be taxed fairly (what's your opinion here?) and instead left to decide for themselves how to donate their wealth - an option that poor and middle class people don't have with their lesser wealth, mind you - then you're classist. Everyone else has to pay their fair share of taxes and don't necessarily get to decide how those taxes are spent. Why should rich people get to choose which fundraisers to patronize when their interests may not be in the best interest of the majority, or of those in need, or of the country's needs? It's essentially a way for rich people to act as politicians without having to be elected because they get to pick and choose where they want their money to go in ways that average Americans can't.

And you're the one who first mentioned sports cars, wanting to know which people find such-and-such a status symbol more attractive than another status symbol.

You don't have to think that you're sexist to be sexist. It's for women to decide whether you're sexist, and not all women have to agree. All it takes is one woman to point out why your male privilege is out of bounds. You have male privilege and talking down to me about gender politics is sexist. You're not a woman, so you don't understand the ill effect your misconceptions have. The biased person is the privileged one who makes assumptions about what less privileged people are trying to tell them.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Brave Maximus View Post
wow....
I'm floored. But, I guess, you've made up your mind - and the arguing is probably not going to change your mind. But there are a few points I'd like to make:

"Just because no one's ever called you sexiest doesn't mean you're not. I'm not saying you're sexiest - I'm just implying it."
I do take exception to the implication. I'm actually at a loss for words. If you take what I said, and wring sexism out of it - I think you have a particular view of the world, and men in particular (or at least, certian men) - and everything falls into that view. For that, I'm sorry. You are going to miss a lot of good people with pre-concieved notion.

I also love the :"I read your post, I just don't agree with you. I know what you ment to say, and how you ment to say it, but I read it how I wanted, and I disagree with you".

Perhaps the last word was poorly chosen. But hell, why stop at your slight missinterpretation? Why not go all the way and say I'm looking for the way to get women to turn tricks. I mean, if we can ignore the meaning and put whatever slant we want on it, lets not get shy! You work for the media, don't you.......?

And please, listen and hear this VERY CLEARLY. I am not lumping women together. I am not asking for a universal answer. I AM ASKING WOMEN FOR THEIR OPPINION. Individual oppinion. You've skipped over that part in 2 posts, probably working on it for a third, but, I'm trying here.

You're also acting like there is no superficial connection between people. While emotional, intelectual and spiritual connections abound, what we first notice about someone, usually in a hyper-social setting, is the physicality of someone, or other factors that draw them to us. And, currently, there are a lot of people basing their decisions on that superficial quality (please, argue this. One can provide enough imperical and anecdotal evidence to convince anyone).
It's why I'm ASKING PEOPLE, not PERSON.

And please, how can asking someone what they like be considered a trick or bait and switch?
"Excuse me miss, do you like the band that's playing?"
"Hey! Back off, you're trying to trick me into liking you!!! You sexist pig!!!"

*reading further*

OH for the love of god.... are you taking everything in your own context and just putting your own spin on it?!?
Where did I say I was personally concerned about sports cars, clothes, and... watches? (Yes, the watch I wear is a little expensive. It was also my great uncles, passed on down through my grandfather and father, and while it would cost a lot to replace it, when I put it on, I don't notice it's monitary value, but instead feel the connection to the three men who wore it before, and what they accomplished and how much further I still have to go, if you really must know).
I think I figured out some things about you. You begrudge success. A well tailored suit, be it Armani, Boss, or something from Tip Top Tailors means that a man has pride in himself and how he carries himself. It also means he understands a professional situation. I could go to walmart and run around in sweats all day. But if I did, I wouldn't be able to do my job. I also don't actually like sweat pants....
You think that if someone has money, they should give it all away.
I actually think that those with money have the responsibility to do something with it to the benefit to society. I also believe if you don't have money, you have the responsibility to do something for the benefit of society.

The rest of your post is just blatant misinterpretations of what I wrote, twisted for your own purpose, as is most of what you said.

I am, however, going to call you out on your last paragraph:

I, in no way, dismissed you for being confrontational. I called you out on the assumptions you made, and attempted to correct them.
You have called me sexiest no less than 5 times in this one post, and you are mistaken, and it seems, vindictive.

I do think that you are, if not sexiest, prejudiced against both men, and men with power and/or money. I wonder how many other people, in real life and on forums, by calling them that.

Please continue to post and call me sexiest. I think I've shown why you're doing it, and your motives.

The sad part is, I read your profile - you actually seemed like an interesting person. Good thing you posted as you did, and showed your jaded and biast self.

Carry on regardless.
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Old 11-20-2012, 05:35 AM   #20
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I think you're missing the point of women's equality, Kiwi. So long as we teach young women that they're supposed to be submissive and let men take care of them, and that they aren't worthy of earning equal pay, you'll continue to see young women acting as though men should pay for their drinks.

I've had women friends come to me in tears because she was rejected over the fact that her date thought she was "too unfeminine" for wanting to pay for her own dinner. So long as the standard is that women are "supposed" to act needy and men treat independent women as threats, things aren't going to change.

Most of my friends just reject dates when they don't have the money to pay their own way. But when we earn less than our male coworkers for doing the exact same or more responsible jobs despite the legislation against this inequality, how are we supposed to go on dates? I have financial responsibilities to my family and there are times when I wouldn't be able to go out at all unless my friend offered to pay for my movie ticket. It goes without saying that when my friends are in that position and I'm the one with extra pocket money, I pay for them. We take care of each other. It's also more common for women to be pushed into caregiving roles as their parents and elder relatives age, which is what happened to me. Like so many women, my male relatives aren't expected to carry the load that I have to carry.
But why belittle women for desiring to socialize as freely as men even though we're valued less by society and so usually have less money?

Quote:
Originally Posted by kiwi_submissive View Post
Meh, doesn't bother me. I just fine it funny that woman squeal for equality but they don't want to pay for half of anything without calling the guy a chauvanist pig.

Meh, I earn my own money, I buy my own drinks and I pay my own way. I have no issues with that but I find it sad that my friends have issues finding ladies that are interested in more than what they can buy them or what they own.
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Old 11-20-2012, 05:36 AM   #21
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Ah ok, I get it now!
Because you said I'm sexist, I'm sexist. All the other people in my life don't matter. Gotcha.

And, I lied, there's something worse than being called sexist... it's conservative! I will not be thrown in with Harper and his lot, or worse Hudak! My hair moves!!! Well, actually it doesn't since I shave it, but damn it, if I had any, it would move in the wind!!!

I am actually a responsible socialist, believing that a governments job is to support it's people. I do, however, believe in a hand up, not a hand out, which is where the responsible part comes from.

See, look at all the assumptions you make.

You've also hit every disgruntled "feminest" line to date. It's pretty transparent. But, I'm glad we got it cleared up.

Apparently, I'm a rich, white, conservative, who was born with a silver spoon in hand and believes that women should be in the kitchen or at home raising the family, and have no rights over their bodies. This would be the point where you'd expect me to pat you in the head or bottom and tell you not to worry your pretty little about it, the men folk will take care of it.






































I bet she misses everything about that, takes it as truth, and shows that I proved her right.
God, it would be funny, if she didn't actually think that way. Some people in this world make me cry.
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How am I going to be an optimist about this.....?


I was left to my own devices
Many days fell away with nothing to show

We were caught up and lost in all of our vices
In your pose as the dust settled around us

Oh where do we begin?
The rubble or our sins?
Oh oh where do we begin?
The rubble or our sins?

And the walls kept tumbling down
In the city that we love
Grey clouds roll over the hills
Bringing darkness from above

But if you close your eyes,
Does it almost feel like
Nothing changed at all?
And if you close your eyes,
Does it almost feel like
You've been here before?
How am I gonna be an optimist about this?
How am I gonna be an optimist about this?

If you close your eyes, does it almost feel like nothing changed at all?

Pompeii - Bastille
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Old 11-20-2012, 05:43 AM   #22
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Isn't it funny and predictable how Maximus goes for the woman whose icon is of naked breasts, who obviously lacks self-confidence, and who talks down about other women (just doing sexist men's work for them)... all while ignoring the intelligent arguments of a confident, outspoken woman because apparently, it's not "fun" to think or have to challenge his own sexist notions? Maximus said he wanted to hear women's opinions, but look at how he shrivels upon hearing anything that doesn't flatter him. Lol.
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Old 11-20-2012, 05:47 AM   #23
Brave Maximus
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Yup, she missed it. 1 point for me

And, I think it is REALLY prejudice of you to say anything about Kiwi. I doubt you know her on any sort of personal level to say she lacks self confidence. I'm sure she will come here and correct you herself, or, perhaps would be better for everyone, ignore you completely.


Hey Wynter... do you read Twilight or 50 Shades (cue indignent comment, when in reality, she has both series, fully read, cover to cover).
__________________
How am I going to be an optimist about this.....?


I was left to my own devices
Many days fell away with nothing to show

We were caught up and lost in all of our vices
In your pose as the dust settled around us

Oh where do we begin?
The rubble or our sins?
Oh oh where do we begin?
The rubble or our sins?

And the walls kept tumbling down
In the city that we love
Grey clouds roll over the hills
Bringing darkness from above

But if you close your eyes,
Does it almost feel like
Nothing changed at all?
And if you close your eyes,
Does it almost feel like
You've been here before?
How am I gonna be an optimist about this?
How am I gonna be an optimist about this?

If you close your eyes, does it almost feel like nothing changed at all?

Pompeii - Bastille
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Old 11-20-2012, 05:55 AM   #24
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Yes, if you take some basic sociology courses, gender courses, racial equality courses, so on, that's the definition of privilege. When other people are able to note your privilege and explain to you how it's harmful to others. The humble thing is to listen and learn, not to clutch your pearls about it.

Your comments took a conservative tone whether you intended it or not. Talking about Armani and how you need a fancy suit to declare your status to others? What do you think that sounds like? And I very clearly asked for your opinion on the issues of fair taxation. I didn't assume. I just put my own opinion out and asked to know your thoughts. Not that I'm interested in your thoughts anymore, but let's do make it obvious to everyone how rude you are.

You can't even say feminist without misspelling it and putting it in quotes as those the word were poisonous to you. Any good socialist is also a feminist. If you've done your reading, you'd know that women's rights and other rights (workers' rights, human rights) go together. Women wouldn't have the vote, the right to be educated, the right to equal pay (which isn't be well enforced), reproductive rights, or any number of other basic rights without feminism. Feminism is just anti-sexism. If you're not racist, you're anti-racist. If you're not sexist, you're feminist. Feminism is about women's rights and equality between all people. It's not a scary thing.

If you're not an old boy conservative, then try getting over that "a hand, not a handout" rhetoric. I've never known a person in need who wanted a handout, but everybody needs a little help sometimes. It can't always be paid back. Sometimes, a handout is what you need to get back on your feet. Ever heard of microloans? They're very successful in assisting impoverished people, women particularly, in developing nations to be financially independent and provide better lives for their children.

If you're not sexist, then why are you talking down to me and using sexist tropes to illustrate your text as though that were clever? Anti-sexist men know when there's an opportunity to learn to dismantle their unnecessary privilege. You're missing it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brave Maximus View Post
Ah ok, I get it now!
Because you said I'm sexist, I'm sexist. All the other people in my life don't matter. Gotcha.

And, I lied, there's something worse than being called sexist... it's conservative! I will not be thrown in with Harper and his lot, or worse Hudak! My hair moves!!! Well, actually it doesn't since I shave it, but damn it, if I had any, it would move in the wind!!!

I am actually a responsible socialist, believing that a governments job is to support it's people. I do, however, believe in a hand up, not a hand out, which is where the responsible part comes from.

See, look at all the assumptions you make.

You've also hit every disgruntled "feminest" line to date. It's pretty transparent. But, I'm glad we got it cleared up.

Apparently, I'm a rich, white, conservative, who was born with a silver spoon in hand and believes that women should be in the kitchen or at home raising the family, and have no rights over their bodies. This would be the point where you'd expect me to pat you in the head or bottom and tell you not to worry your pretty little about it, the men folk will take care of it.






































I bet she misses everything about that, takes it as truth, and shows that I proved her right.
God, it would be funny, if she didn't actually think that way. Some people in this world make me cry.
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Old 11-20-2012, 06:04 AM   #25
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Any woman who complains that other women are "squealing" about women's equality while degrading her own friends just for behaving the way that they were taught to behave is probably lacking confidence. It's a shame that so many other young women think that the women's equality movement is all about trying to get free drinks off of men and such nonsense. It's about equal pay, the right to be safe while walking your own neighborhood, and stopping violence against women. 1 of every 3 women is the victim of violence in her lifetime.

Kiwi, I'm sorry if my comments hurt your feelings. I'm coming from a place of exasperation after seeing so many of my peers forget what women's rights are really about. Perhaps you are very self-confident, and that would make me happy. I just don't see why you should belittle women who aren't self-confident or who are just doing what they're taught to do. You might be surprised at how many women I know who are told by men that they're "unfeminine" if they don't act girly-girly and needy.

Wow, Maximus, comments about Twilight and 50 Shades. Like we haven't heard that before. Come up with something new.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brave Maximus View Post
Yup, she missed it. 1 point for me

And, I think it is REALLY prejudice of you to say anything about Kiwi. I doubt you know her on any sort of personal level to say she lacks self confidence. I'm sure she will come here and correct you herself, or, perhaps would be better for everyone, ignore you completely.


Hey Wynter... do you read Twilight or 50 Shades (cue indignent comment, when in reality, she has both series, fully read, cover to cover).
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