The elephant in the room

[pplwatching]

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[amofiga]

Your situation sounds like mine was for years. If one or the other partner is perhaps made to feel foolish or stupid or perverted by discussing their sexual needs, desired, fantasies, etc, then it shuts the door to communication both sexually and sometimes otherwise. It causes a lot of tension and resentment. The results can be very bad. In my case, I tended to completely separate emotionally from my wife and chalked it up to her just not being interested at all. I went and found several long term mistresses/friends with benefits who were themselves married with relationships where there was lack of communication and worse, feelings of being made to feel dirty or perverted for sexual desires. It worked well for many years, going along two tracks in my life, but then one of the women went bonkers and spilled the beans to my wife and her husband. It was very very ugly. It required court action to get her off my back and she even ended up in a mental hospital for a bit. It took nearly two years of counseling to save our marriage.

The upshot was that the counseling made us open up to each other in a monitored safe environment and it really helped each of us to understand the other's point of view. Perhaps "pre-emptive" counseling could help you to avoid the kind of thing we went through. Sometimes you just can't handle everything on your own and need professional intervention.

Good luck.

[pplwatching]

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[amofiga]

"once a week on average" doesn't sound all that terrible if it is consistant and if it is "passionate, intimate, and emotionally satisfying" when it does happen. You mention that she was trying to get your son through summer school and it was a battle of wills. One of the things my wife pointed out to me, as a guy who probably didn't see all the work that motherhood requires of kids from infancy to teens, is that often she was indeed tired and stressed. Have you taken time for yourselves like weekends away, just the two of you? Do you have parents that you could leave the kids with for a few days, a week, to get off alone and unstressed? There's nothing better than "hotel sex" or "cruise ship sex". Is there something else going on that's smoldering that destroys the mood?

Health problems can also be a big issue. I'm not sure what lead to the hysterectomy, but we went through the same thing and it was stressful. In addition, there seemed to be some pain for her after the hysterectomy which she discussed with her gyn. Could be some sort of scar tissue, whatever. It's something to consider and maybe she doesn't feel right talking about that.

I truly hope you two can come to some understanding. Is it only vaginal intercourse that is the issue here? There are certainly many other ways to enjoy sexual contact and play.

[pplwatching]

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[silverwhisper]

pplwatching: my wife & i are similar and although our droughts haven't gone on quite as long as that, ultimately i realized that if i could simply be clearer about initiating, it would happen more often. she too however has gotten clearer about when she wants to initiate. it's helped quite a bit.

ed

[Eilan]

Originally Posted by pplwatching

I can see that this post was confusing. I apologize.

I'm sorry to see that you deleted your original post. Threads like this one remind me of why I gravitated to the HT in the first place.

[Sunship]

Same here. It struck a chord and gave some real food for thought. Think you should consider putting it back.

[pplwatching]

Originally Posted by Sunship

Same here. It struck a chord and gave some real food for thought. Think you should consider putting it back.

Done. Thanks.

[JKayle]

pplwatching, that is a very accurate description of my marriage, right down to the watching her moods, weighing up the possibilities that she'll be receptive to an advance, and of course, the self imposed rejection.

[NightL]

Great thread and well thought out post. Based on what I have just read I believe you and you wife already have a sound foundation in your relationship.

It would actually be great if she were to read the post as well, if only to open up discussion on this subject for both of you. You seem already to be doing the right steps.

I have a couple of points for you to consider, though this will need further input from others who have more direct experience. A friend of mine, in her forties, had a hysterectomy a over a year ago. She talked of the grieving she went through and the depression she journeyed through while she came to terms with what she felt at the time was a loss of womanhood. She felt less of self. Think, if you will, of men being asked to consider having a vasectomy. Even if they are long past having a desire of becoming a father again, many will run to the hills at the very thought of somehow losing a perceived sense of masculinity. Now ramp that thought up a 1000 times and it may give an indication of how a woman may feel about herself leading up to and after having a hysterectomy. While my friend's physical health problems were addressed with surgery she had not counted on the depression that lasted for 6 months and more.

Next thing - hormonal changes for your wife and how this impacts on her desire for sex. Again this needs more input from those who can speak directly from experience. Think if one day you suddenly realised a food that you once loved just seemed totally bland and unappealing. Every attempt at trying to recapture the memories of savouring the delights only reinforced the thought that this food no longer stimulates you the way it used to. Eventually you would no doubt just find it easier to avoid the food than go through the whole memory and disappointment process. Perhaps that food was always prepared by your wife or mother, you love them dearly but don't want to hurt their feelings by telling them you really now have zero appetite for that food. Enough analogies. Your wife will have experienced a major change in hormone levels. The impact of that can ultimately only be expressed by her.

I strongly suggest that you yourself go to your GP and ask for more information about the impact and changes a hysterectomy may bring. Educate yourself. Become as knowledgeable as possible for a male to be on this area. One day you may be saving your friends' marriages through offering advice on this area. From this gained level of understanding you will be much better positioned to discuss the issue sympathetically than that of a puppy that has lost it's bone. Damn, another analogy slipped in

Another thing struck me as I read your post. You do communicate very well - so I will be blunt - stop with the softly softly approach with your wife. I am most certainly not saying "man up" but be as straight forward as you have been in your writings here. Educate yourself on what she is likely to be going through and then be direct with your communication. First get advice from your GP, next just ask the person who is closest to you who can help you - your wife. I do, though, want to get back on this subject of how you said you have been communicating with your wife lately. I can feel another analogy coming on - hehe - stop being a puppy dog trying to please her all the time. It will become obvious. You will only serve to remind her constantly of the bloody elephant. She may well start taking advantage of your constantly wishing to please and resent you and herself for that development in your relationship. I bet when you first got together you held on to your own "male" space and friends for a long time and no doubt she did the equivalent. Yet you were still attracted enough to each other to get married. Go live your own life a little again - bring some mystery back into the marriage. Go on fishing trips with your male friends, encourage her to do the equivalent. These experiences apart will reward your relationship. It is beautiful that you wish for her every need, don't over do it. She will just see that bloody elephant.

So when you have educated yourself thoroughly on the subject of hormonal changes and the impact of a hysterectomy your communication can then become two-way and not just one-sided as I suspect it may have become. "I want" should be replaced with "tell me how you are feeling - how do we go about his".

There are hormonal replacement therapies that I have been told are very helpful. There has been a great deal of improvement and understanding of these in the last ten years. HRT went through a bad rap for a while but I have been informed that the medical folk have vastly improved things and indeed the safety of using them.

A loving relationship is very precious, you are both already very fortunate to have each other. My best wishes to you both.

[pplwatching]

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[pplwatching]

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[NightL]

The advice offered is often learnt through experience. Some of what I wrote I have lived through and unfortunately contributed to. The simplest of things can be the hardest to see or accomplish at times.

In my case the "I'll give a lot of love, support and be really attentive to make this better" didn't get the response I was hoping for - so I just tried to make "I'll give a lot of love, support and be really attentive to make this better" even better. I gather you can relate to that.

While I thought I was being the most caring partner possible I didn't see the communication had become a one-way street. I wished I had realised much earlier that all I had to do was to offer up "how are you feeling about this?" then sit back and just genuinely listen and understand.

Ah - that hindsight word... hmmm.

And go fishing with your buddies from time to time Get out of each others hair occasionally, it will make the times together more special.

[query]

Went a little tmi...changed mind.