what makes a poem good?

[butters]

Originally Posted by XdOu™

what makes a good poem?

answer: put extra feelings to it

well if you do decide to post more, make sure they are yours this time, ok? we'll be fair enough based on the poem; do what you did before and you will be found out.

i wish you well.

[twelveoone]

Originally Posted by chipbutty

well if you do decide to post more, make sure they are yours this time, ok? we'll be fair enough based on the poem; do what you did before and you will be found out.

i wish you well.

now, now chip, plagiarism often makes the best poetry, plus you get that feeling of deja vu, that is often missing from original material, here is one of mine

sonnetI

From fairest creatures we desire increase,
That thereby beauty's rose might never die,
But as the riper should by time decease,
His tender heir might bear his memory:
But thou contracted to thine own bright eyes,
Feed'st thy light's flame with self-substantial fuel,
Making a famine where abundance lies,
Thy self thy foe, to thy sweet self too cruel:
Thou that art now the world's fresh ornament,
And only herald to the gaudy spring,
Within thine own bud buriest thy content,
And, tender churl, mak'st waste in niggarding:
Pity the world, or else this glutton be,
To eat the world's due, by the grave and thee.

almost gives you the feeling of Shakespeare, huh?
mak'st waste in niggarding: i should change that line

oops found it here also
now how did he manage to rip me off, hundreds of years before i was born?

on a more serious note, I'm not a fan of the sonnets, they do seem rather old (duh), but Will, if i may call him that, was quite revolutionary in his time, and English as we know it does owe him a considerable debt. We're just lucky it wasn't compounded daily and he's not here to collect it.
oooh debt/collect it, i feel a sonnet coming on.

[twelveoone]

Originally Posted by twelveoone

now, now chip, plagiarism often makes the best poetry, plus you get that feeling of deja vu, that is often missing from original material, here is one of mine

sonnetI

From fairest creatures we desire increase,
That thereby beauty's rose might never die,
But as the riper should by time decease,
His tender heir might bear his memory:
But you, compacted in your own slight eyes,
Feed'st thy light's flame with self-substantial fuel,
Making a famine where abundance lies,
You selfish hoe, you little slutish fool,
Thou that art now the world's fresh ornament,
And only herald to the gaudy spring,
Within thine own bud buriest thy content,
And, tender churl, mak'st waste in niggarding:
Pity the world, or else this glutton be,
To eat the world's due, by the grave and thee.

almost gives you the feeling of Shakespeare, huh?

In barest features we increase desire,
That thereby beauty's rose might never die,
But as often the ripper does retire,
His tender heir might bear his memory:
But you, compacted in your own slight eyes,
Feed'st thy light's flame with self-substantial fuel,
Making a famine where abundance lies,
You selfish hoe, you little slutish fool,
Thou that art now the world's fresh ornament,
And only herald to the gaudy spring,
Within thine own bud buriest thy content,
And, tender churl, mak'st waste in niggarding:
Pity the world, or else this glutton be,
To eat the world's due, by the grave and thee.

[Desejo]

Originally Posted by twelveoone

In barest features we increase desire,
That thereby beauty's rose might never die,
But as often the ripper does retire,
His tender heir might bear his memory:
But you, compacted in your own slight eyes,
Feed'st thy light's flame with self-substantial fuel,
Making a famine where abundance lies,
You selfish hoe, you little slutish fool,
Thou that art now the world's fresh ornament,
And only herald to the gaudy spring,
Within thine own bud buriest thy content,
And, tender churl, mak'st waste in niggarding:
Pity the world, or else this glutton be,
To eat the world's due, by the grave and thee.

1201 - this sounds like something out of the Sot-Weed Factor.
Now I'd like to see you write a poem in the persona of Ignatius Reilly. Be sure to start it with O! Fortuna and include something about that minx Myrna Minkoff.

[twelveoone]

Originally Posted by twelveoone

In barest features we increase desire,
That thereby beauty's rose might never die,
But as often the ripper does retire,
His tender heir might bear his memory:
But you, compacted in your own slight eyes,
Feed'st thy light's flame with self-substantial fuel,
Making a famine where abundance lies,
You selfish hoe, you little slutish fool,
You that are now a foul predicament,
Cashiered as small change in a shady spring,
Within thine own bud buriest thy content,
And, tender churl, mak'st waste in niggarding:
Pity the world, or else this glutton be,
To eat the world's due, by the grave and thee.

In barest features we increase desire,
That thereby beauty's rose might never die,
But as often the ripper does retire,
His tender heir might bear his memory:
But you, compacted in your own slight eyes,
Feed'st thy light's flame with self-substantial fuel,
Making a famine where abundance lies,
You selfish hoe, you little slutish fool,
You that are now a foul predicament,
Cashiered as small change in a shady spring,
Iced baby, now as in winter's discontent,
And, tender churl, mak'st waste in niggarding:
Pity the world, or else this glutton be,
To eat the world's due, to the grave with me.

[twelveoone]

Originally Posted by Desejo

1201 - this sounds like something out of the Sot-Weed Factor.
Now I'd like to see you write a poem in the persona of Ignatius Reilly. Be sure to start it with O! Fortuna and include something about that minx Myrna Minkoff.

hush, woman i'm doing Shakespear's Night of the Ripper King

besides, i'd have to read it

but you could,
simple word substitution

[Desejo]

You haven't read A confederacy of Dunces?!!!!

That is....just.so.wrong.

[twelveoone]

Originally Posted by Desejo

You haven't read A confederacy of Dunces?!!!!

That is....just.so.wrong.

i was afraid they might have been talking about me

[twelveoone]

Originally Posted by twelveoone

In barest features we increase desire,
That thereby beauty's rose might never die,
But as often the ripper does retire,
His tender heir might bear his memory:
But you, compacted in your own slight eyes,
Feed'st thy light's flame with self-substantial fuel,
Making a famine where abundance lies,
You selfish hoe, you little slutish fool,
You that are now a foul predicament,
Cashiered as small change in a shady spring,
Iced baby, now as in winter's discontent,
And, tender churl, mak'st waste in niggarding:
Pity the world, or else this glutton be,
To eat the world's due, to the grave with me.

alright here i am halfway though and I realize i have a farm implement in here.
hoe
ho
'ho'
'ho'e
and i don't know
where to
go
what think'st thou, finish, ripp'd from unseem'd bowels
or save it for a 'winter's discontent' challenge?

anyway if you must
do the penti
this, new to the Iamb, may be rather painless, maybe even fun
take a shake (most are in iambic pentameter, two or three aren't)
and substitute
what this will do is imprint, like a finger exercise on the guitar (or lute, if thou'st prefer)
just remember
he did it better (shakespeare, not 1201)
and then you can get Tzara, Demure101, bflsst, Empie etc. to check your work
but not me
for 'tis not my religion


ripp'd from unseem'd bowels
now how is that for extra feelings?

[twelveoone]

Originally Posted by greenmountaineer

I agree. Poetic technique, like any skill, will come eventually to those who persist and enjoy the artful way language can be expressed. (One might say the same for stand up comedy which I sometimes think is the closest popular expression we have of modern poetry.) But the essence of poetry and what keeps it alive comes from discussions such as this.

As a reflective learner, I don't often contribute directly to the threads, but I read a lot of opinions about poetry on this site. While I may not agree with everything, I would like to let the frequent contributors know, and I mean all of them, how much their thinking has influenced my writing for which I'm very grateful.

In fact, this thread has stirred my creative juices and has me thinking about my next poem.

well, after mining this thread a voice of reason, after so mush (sic) of the pontiff and the pontiff's little helper...

Originally Posted by bflagsst

Hey Aether, bring back SapphosSister. I think she's gone back underground.

Originally Posted by Epmd607

MacLeish was a librarian, he knows about Dewey Decimal System and the early years of microfiche. Somehow he won a bunch of poetry awards. Modernism is probably as surreal as the genre 'surrealist'. TS Eliot, Ezra, especially EE Cumm seemed like they wanted to say some things but weren't very clear about what they were saying most of the time. Poets haven't been very good at describing poems over the course of poetry, specifically good poems. I couldn't really describe a good poem. I don't like most poems I read, and don't really like most poems I write. I'm just a negative creep.

and who be i to argue?

so how do you lads feel about the use of colour in poetry? poesy? do you think red is a good colour for rage? cliched, eh? thank you for de-cliching my H's. ka-ching.

[XXplorher]

Originally Posted by champagne1982

Dude... do you ever refer to women as women rather than as males? Taking the time to figure out who you're talking to is the first step in communicating. It probably would make it easier to read through your post as well. Since you refer to a woman as "dude" and all those other male centred nouns and pronouns, you tend to alienate all who are in fact not men.

Just sayin'... go off and enchant yourself now.

You're right - the central most important thing I should have been doing, was identifying if the unknown avatar I might be having a conversation with - is a man or a woman. That's what's most important.

I'll do that now... ignorant cunt. Is that better? Did I get it right? Did the subject matter change?

[butters]

maturity's decided to take a day off?

good poetry? nah. cheap shit like acid-inducing fake cider

[PandoraGlitters]

Originally Posted by XXplorher

You're right - the central most important thing I should have been doing, was identifying if the unknown avatar I might be having a conversation with - is a man or a woman. That's what's most important.

I'll do that now... ignorant cunt. Is that better? Did I get it right? Did the subject matter change?

Just noticed this. Don't be abusive you eekle Twah yeh.

[KathrynMartin]

Cheap poetry is not like cheap wine. It doesn't get better the more you ingest. Although throwing up the next morning seems very similar.

Good poetry, now there is a rare thing. Exacting use of language, extracting a visceral emotion and a fundamental sense of reality.

Originally Posted by chipbutty

maturity's decided to take a day off?

good poetry? nah. cheap shit like acid-inducing fake cider

[butters]

Originally Posted by KathrynMartin

Cheap poetry is not like cheap wine. It doesn't get better the more you ingest. Although throwing up the next morning seems very similar.

Good poetry, now there is a rare thing. Exacting use of language, extracting a visceral emotion and a fundamental sense of reality.

the 'cheap' reference was to the post above mine, KM though I agree with your thoughts here.

[champagne1982]

Originally Posted by champagne1982

Dude... do you ever refer to women as women rather than as males? Taking the time to figure out who you're talking to is the first step in communicating. It probably would make it easier to read through your post as well. Since you refer to a woman as "dude" and all those other male centred nouns and pronouns, you tend to alienate all who are in fact not men.

Just sayin'... go off and enchant yourself now.

Originally Posted by XXplorher

You're right - the central most important thing I should have been doing, was identifying if the unknown avatar I might be having a conversation with - is a man or a woman. That's what's most important.

I'll do that now... ignorant cunt. Is that better? Did I get it right? Did the subject matter change?

You seem to be kicking a dog that's 2 years' dead, XXplorher... I see you have succeeded in enchanting yourself since now you're a true ass. Does it hurt when your tail gets pulled?

[Angeline]

Originally Posted by XXplorher

You're right - the central most important thing I should have been doing, was identifying if the unknown avatar I might be having a conversation with - is a man or a woman. That's what's most important.

I'll do that now... ignorant cunt. Is that better? Did I get it right? Did the subject matter change?

If your intent was to demonstrate that you can do no more than vomit up an epithet, as opposed to using language to actually say something meaningful, you got it just right.

[bronzeage]

The real question is what makes a poem well?

[bogusagain]

Originally Posted by Angeline

If your intent was to demonstrate that you can do no more than vomit up an epithet, as opposed to using language to actually say something meaningful, you got it just right.

I'll try and say something meaningful Angeline, though you might think otherwise. Is your avatar really a picture of you? Because I'm fancying it.

And I'm imagining it angry in a strict teacher mode. Grrrrrrrr sexy hot stuff.

[HarryHill]

Originally Posted by bronzeage

The real question is what makes a poem well?

I have plenty that need healing.

[HarryHill]

Originally Posted by champagne1982

You seem to be kicking a dog that's 2 years' dead, XXplorher... I see you have succeeded in enchanting yourself since now you're a true ass. Does it hurt when your tail gets pulled?

..
The correct term is 'Dudette' ..I'll use it in a sentence for you.
..Dudette make that easier?

[PandoraGlitters]

Originally Posted by bronzeage

The real question is what makes a poem well?

Hah! bronzeage, you make every thread better.

[Angeline]

Originally Posted by bogusagain

I'll try and say something meaningful Angeline, though you might think otherwise. Is your avatar really a picture of you? Because I'm fancying it.

And I'm imagining it angry in a strict teacher mode. Grrrrrrrr sexy hot stuff.

Thank you K. That is an avatar I've used at Second Life. I put the look together, but it's just a drawing. She does have a kind of dommy vibe, doesn't she?

[bogusagain]

Originally Posted by Angeline

Thank you K. That is an avatar I've used at Second Life. I put the look together, but it's just a drawing. She does have a kind of dommy vibe, doesn't she?

But is it based on you? I'm thinking so, I am sure you have used a photo of yourself before.

Anyway, all I can think of is, beat me up you hot thing, hit me hit me hit me, use me, abuse me, show me who's boss! Hmm, I've never considered myself a subbie before.

[Angeline]

Originally Posted by bogusagain

But is it based on you? I'm thinking so, I am sure you have used a photo of yourself before.

Anyway, all I can think of is, beat me up you hot thing, hit me hit me hit me, use me, abuse me, show me who's boss! Hmm, I've never considered myself a subbie before.

Well yes, it is based on me. The hair and the eyes and the glasses, for sure. And I can't count how many guys over the years have said I'm a dom type. I always thought of myself more as bossy lol. eagleyez caught it right away.

Now grab your ankles and let me spank the bejesus out of you, you bad, bad poet.