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Old 08-18-2012, 09:54 PM   #1
Kim_Burly
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Is realism asking too much?

Dear Gentle Reader: I realize that many, or perhaps even most of the stories are all fantasy, but is a modicum of reality asking too much?

I am speaking specifically of stories in the non-consentual/relectunce section. All too often, the story of a man dominating a woman ends up with him turning him over to his friends and strangers, making her dress like a slut 24/7 and all kinds of other nonsense that could never happen in the real world. I know stuff like this does go on sometimes, but for an average woman, she could never stay in school or keep a job is she behaved like a whore 24/7.

Is the story of a woman submitting to a single man, discreetly, not arousing enough? Now that I know a few other people and couples "in the D/s lifestyle" they are not "out" to anyone other than a few like minded people, if that. My life as a sub is a very deep, dark secret, that few people will ever know. My Dom has no interest in making me service his friends or strangers in an adult theater. His possesion and control of me, on the occassions that we can do it are enough for him. Sorry to ramble, but my times with my lover are rather intense and extreme, yet what I read here makes our sessions look downright vanilla.

Note to self: Post before drinking 2 strawberry Dacquiri Smoothies and not when feeling lonely.

Spelling and grammatical errors provided for your entertainment.

Love, Kim B
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Old 08-19-2012, 05:11 AM   #2
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My guess is that those stories are being written by people not in dom/sub relationships and so they are drawing on the fantasy of someone that is sharing it with them.
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Old 08-19-2012, 03:41 PM   #3
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My guess is that those stories are being written by people not in dom/sub relationships and so they are drawing on the fantasy of someone that is sharing it with them.
Maybe, but not necessarily.

I think that the point of most stories is to provide something that's a little more than you can get in reality. The interest is often is getting just past what you'd feel safe or happy doing in reali life.

Lots of women (judging by OKCupid) have rape fantasies. They would quite probably enjoy a story where the lead character ends up submitting to their rapists and becoming their willing toy. Move into reality and it's rather less likely.

Personally, I'm a part time D/s relationship where both parties enjoys the threat of risk. I might threaten to leave my partner locked out of the house in a full rope harness, but I probably wouldn't do it - that's what fantasies are for.

I used to tease a girl by threatening to tie her spread eagled in the back of a transit van and leave it parked in a pub carpark with the doors open. The thought of hands everywhere excited her and I'm fairly certain she'd have enjoyed a story about it. If I'd gone and rented a van, I'm fairly certain she'd have had me arrested before I found my ratchet straps.

Things need to be believable, but I'm not sure they need to be realistic...
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Old 08-19-2012, 04:09 PM   #4
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I agree with the OP, to an extent. My fantasies, however, are TOO real. Most places will not allow me to post them because they are graphic and grotesque. I am fully ok with never acting them out in "real" life.

As far as realistic BDSM, there may be authors that write in a more realistic manner. However, this probably will not be the "norm". The norm has always defied logic. Apparently lust needs no logic... it just needs a "what if" scenario where it can fill in the blanks and go wild.

I am working on finding a place where my imagination is free to run wild. I don't think I will be able to do so online... at least not in the format I prefer. Resources do exist though. It's like digging for gold. Gold is hard to find.
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Old 08-19-2012, 06:31 PM   #5
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I wonder if it is not a desire to get as many of their fantasies as possible into a single story. It could also be an attempt to get more folks to give them good marks by adding as many kinks into a story as they can.

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Old 08-19-2012, 06:47 PM   #6
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Well, I'm into rape, or more precisely, non-consensual FANTASY, but I do like my fantasies to be a bit realistic. I know that sounds like an oxymoron, but I've seen too many rape stories (and porn clips) where the non-consent lasts until the guy gests his unit out, and then the "victim" dives in like one of Santa's three 'ho's.

I'm not really into D/S either. I mean, I respect it, I really do, but it isn't me. It's too much like being Catholic, which I used to be. You know, all the formulas and stuff you have to say and do. I'm more free-form, I guess, but I like my fantasies and stories to "smack" (no pun intended) of reality. Not every guy has 12 inches and not every gal is a DD except on here.
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Old 08-19-2012, 11:24 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by tripleflip View Post
Well, I'm into rape, or more precisely, non-consensual FANTASY, but I do like my fantasies to be a bit realistic. I know that sounds like an oxymoron, but I've seen too many rape stories (and porn clips) where the non-consent lasts until the guy gests his unit out, and then the "victim" dives in like one of Santa's three 'ho's.

I'm not really into D/S either. I mean, I respect it, I really do, but it isn't me. It's too much like being Catholic, which I used to be. You know, all the formulas and stuff you have to say and do. I'm more free-form, I guess, but I like my fantasies and stories to "smack" (no pun intended) of reality. Not every guy has 12 inches and not every gal is a DD except on here.
Exactly. I want my stories to be plausible. I read a lot of BDSM simply because it is somewhat close to what I would enjoy. I do enjoy sadism (in fantasy), but it is much different than the sadism that is displayed in the BDSM realm. If I were to compare, the BDSM world offers an ordered sadism that remains within certain boundaries that are not to be crossed. I like the concept of completely discarding all boundaries and running wild.

Aside from that, there are stories that I enjoy that are plausible (realistic) that I would never, EVER want to see in real life. Not even as a reenactment. A story doesn't even need to contain such shocking elements as rape or torture to be good. Even vanilla can be good if it's written PLAUSIBLY. Fortunately I've been finding quite a few well-written stories that fit my cup of tea.
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Old 08-21-2012, 12:06 AM   #8
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Yes, asking that all stories meet your needs is asking too much. If you are reading a story that doesn't meet your balance of requirements, go read a different story and don't expect every reader to have the same tastes that you do.
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Old 08-21-2012, 05:41 AM   #9
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Hurrah for daquiris!

I'm quite interested in realism, and if the OP so desires, I'm interested in her perspective on a female protagonist's reactions and feelings to the plot I've outline in a Story Ideas post.

http://forum.literotica.com/showthread.php?t=823866
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Old 08-21-2012, 11:37 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by procndest View Post
Hurrah for daquiris!

I'm quite interested in realism, and if the OP so desires, I'm interested in her perspective on a female protagonist's reactions and feelings to the plot I've outline in a Story Ideas post.

http://forum.literotica.com/showthread.php?t=823866
Procnst: I will look it over sometime this week.
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Old 08-23-2012, 04:35 PM   #11
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I enjoy reading about nonconsensual sex ("fantasy rape") but what I like has been almost impossible to find in the "Nonconsent" category.

My story preferences:
1. M/F, strangers, non-consent. (optional: developing later into hot, rough, consensual sex.)
2. Multiple M/1 F, strangers, non-consent

If it's single M/F, strangers, 99% of the stories I've found are going to be in the Nonhuman or Sci-fi category.

In the Nonconsent category, single M/F stories always seem to end up being the husband or boyfriend. And multiple M stories seem to go over-the-top where the F changes into a horn-dog porn star.

"In the Parking Garage" by dr_mabeuse is absolutely perfect. Modern-day strangers, she likes and dislikes what's happening. Perfect "fantasy" rape.

"Isabelle's Awakening" by Jasmine30 and "Educating the Teacher" by furrybert are also good.
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Old 08-23-2012, 05:01 PM   #12
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Oh I tried a "realistic" rape piece a few years back, but I couldn't keep going with it. My skating got in the way, and then I went crazy, and then I went to graduate school. My story is posted here somewhere.
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Old 08-24-2012, 01:40 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kim_Burly View Post
Dear Gentle Reader: I realize that many, or perhaps even most of the stories are all fantasy, but is a modicum of reality asking too much?

I am speaking specifically of stories in the non-consentual/relectunce section. All too often, the story of a man dominating a woman ends up with him turning him over to his friends and strangers, making her dress like a slut 24/7 and all kinds of other nonsense that could never happen in the real world. I know stuff like this does go on sometimes, but for an average woman, she could never stay in school or keep a job is she behaved like a whore 24/7.

Is the story of a woman submitting to a single man, discreetly, not arousing enough? Now that I know a few other people and couples "in the D/s lifestyle" they are not "out" to anyone other than a few like minded people, if that. My life as a sub is a very deep, dark secret, that few people will ever know. My Dom has no interest in making me service his friends or strangers in an adult theater. His possesion and control of me, on the occassions that we can do it are enough for him. Sorry to ramble, but my times with my lover are rather intense and extreme, yet what I read here makes our sessions look downright vanilla.

Note to self: Post before drinking 2 strawberry Dacquiri Smoothies and not when feeling lonely.

Spelling and grammatical errors provided for your entertainment.

Love, Kim B
I understand your frustration and lack of satisfaction with those sort of stories. Of course, there are readers who prefer stories that are wholly in the realm of fantasy and so far out there as to be unrelated to anything resembling reality.

In writing stories I'm of a mind to root them firmly in reality. I have a few stories still here, but I've since moved the main sequence of inter-related stories over to smashwords.com and re-published them under a different pen name: B E Thalia.

The first story, called Ellen's Bet, is a good example. An approaching-middle-age woman (38) with a real education (master's degree) and a real job (consulting and training in proprietary industrial processes) is on a business trip in Baton Rouge at the time of the 2010 Superbowl. She is invited to watch the game with the manager she's working with, his wife, and several guys from the office. Mystified as to what is motivating her, she makes a bet on the game with the guys, wagering her body against a very significant amount of money. When she loses she spends the night at their sexual beck and call. But she doesn't in the middle of it all suddenly discover what a turn-on the whole thing is, rather she finds out what a gruelling and physically demanding ordeal an experience like that is. And when she leaves for home - and her husband of 12 years and three grade school age daughters - it is with a significant and growing burden of shame, remorse, and guilt. (The fifth story is about her return home and how she deals with all that baggage.) The other stories are similarly premised: a contemporary woman who makes a wager that - win or lose - will have a profound impact on her life and relationships and self-image.

But before I started writing those stories - even before starting in on characters or plot and thematic considerations - I decided that the characters, situations, and details had to work in the real world as well as they could within the setting of a fictional narrative. (Does anyone really believe some guy might really spend his entire life sailing around the world searching for a white whale ala Moby Dick)? The readers who like my stories appreciate that aspect of my stories.

I share your reaction. Stories that are supposedly set in a real-world setting, but which then go into outlandish situations without the real-world consequences of those actions do nothing for me.
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Old 08-24-2012, 09:57 AM   #14
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Solution: Tags -> "realistic"; "realism"; "unrealistic"; "fantasy"

More people need to be tagging their stories well.
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Old 08-25-2012, 12:48 AM   #15
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Sex Stories are mostly not real they are all based on people fantasies. Everyone has their own fantasies when it comes to sex.

Having any fantasy is a good thing and normal but that doesn't mean everyone get a chance to fulfill it.

so I would say through these story sites they express their fantasies and desire what they are wanting to do but in reality they can not do it.

There is nothing bad about it.
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Old 08-26-2012, 11:01 AM   #16
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I agree with the OP to an extent. The problem I have with the kind of story she talks about tend to lack any mention of why the character would continue to allow herself to be treated like that. There are some good ones out there, though, where the story starts out very tame and gradually leads to something more and more against the what the character intended to do.
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Old 08-26-2012, 01:00 PM   #17
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I'm sorry that I've been absent from my own thread, life does have a way of stealing time from you. To your question Karl, does anyone really want to read about my time in counseling and my introspection as to why I am aroused by pain, humiliation and debasement? I don't think so, no more than I want to read why a metrosexual male is aroused by seeing his wife being screwed and abused by a stranger and then slurping the semen from within her. No one wants to read about the roots of my disorder, just the resulting rough sex.

I would like to clarify that I function perfectly in daily life, however, without my occasional sessions with my Dom, I would not be able to. Furthermore, while I had a dysfunctional home life as a child, I don't blame anyone other than myself for the difficulties that I have caused myself and others in my life.

Lastly, I don't know, but I would surmise that 80% of the stories here are mostly or all fantasy. Some of the other 20% are stories like mine, where I smoothed out the rough edges of the actual event to make it more enjoyable to read. Besides, I relish recalling the good parts and have purposely blotted out the other parts. Really, I should just say that we both got drunk and had sex, it was not non-consentual on my part. As a sadist, he recognized me as a fellow traveler. Unwittingly, my ex provided him with jst enough information so he knew what buttons to push and how.

I know this forum isn't for my self-help, but thank you all!

Quote:
Originally Posted by KarlMartinK View Post
I agree with the OP to an extent. The problem I have with the kind of story she talks about tend to lack any mention of why the character would continue to allow herself to be treated like that. There are some good ones out there, though, where the story starts out very tame and gradually leads to something more and more against the what the character intended to do.
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Old 08-26-2012, 01:37 PM   #18
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What did you get your Masters in?

I read the story, my stranger rape fantasies involve good looking, macho white men. I don't mean to pick apart your story, I sincerely want to understand what is the attraction to having a black man (men) rape or have sex with a white woman? Does it just a add another level of degredation? Why does the husband get sexually assualted? I think most men would prefer a virgin bride to a man.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tripleflip View Post
Oh I tried a "realistic" rape piece a few years back, but I couldn't keep going with it. My skating got in the way, and then I went crazy, and then I went to graduate school. My story is posted here somewhere.
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Old 08-26-2012, 01:56 PM   #19
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You seem to really like the bet theme. I tried to get my ex to get more involved in different kinds of sex (oral for starters) using bets and it never worked. I had some fun with bets in college though. I like the couples in your stories.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BONNIEBREA View Post
I understand your frustration and lack of satisfaction with those sort of stories. Of course, there are readers who prefer stories that are wholly in the realm of fantasy and so far out there as to be unrelated to anything resembling reality.

In writing stories I'm of a mind to root them firmly in reality. I have a few stories still here, but I've since moved the main sequence of inter-related stories over to smashwords.com and re-published them under a different pen name: B E Thalia.

The first story, called Ellen's Bet, is a good example. An approaching-middle-age woman (38) with a real education (master's degree) and a real job (consulting and training in proprietary industrial processes) is on a business trip in Baton Rouge at the time of the 2010 Superbowl. She is invited to watch the game with the manager she's working with, his wife, and several guys from the office. Mystified as to what is motivating her, she makes a bet on the game with the guys, wagering her body against a very significant amount of money. When she loses she spends the night at their sexual beck and call. But she doesn't in the middle of it all suddenly discover what a turn-on the whole thing is, rather she finds out what a gruelling and physically demanding ordeal an experience like that is. And when she leaves for home - and her husband of 12 years and three grade school age daughters - it is with a significant and growing burden of shame, remorse, and guilt. (The fifth story is about her return home and how she deals with all that baggage.) The other stories are similarly premised: a contemporary woman who makes a wager that - win or lose - will have a profound impact on her life and relationships and self-image.

But before I started writing those stories - even before starting in on characters or plot and thematic considerations - I decided that the characters, situations, and details had to work in the real world as well as they could within the setting of a fictional narrative. (Does anyone really believe some guy might really spend his entire life sailing around the world searching for a white whale ala Moby Dick)? The readers who like my stories appreciate that aspect of my stories.

I share your reaction. Stories that are supposedly set in a real-world setting, but which then go into outlandish situations without the real-world consequences of those actions do nothing for me.
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Old 08-26-2012, 09:10 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kim_Burly View Post
You seem to really like the bet theme. I tried to get my ex to get more involved in different kinds of sex (oral for starters) using bets and it never worked. I had some fun with bets in college though. I like the couples in your stories.
Thank you for the compliment, Kim.

I was looking for an original premise for adult stories, and thought this one would provide the jumping off point for many possibilities.

It's one of the stereotypes of adult fiction that stories are focused on some particular sexual orientation, fetish, or practice ('gay male stories', 'bondage stories', 'S&M stories', 'cross-dressing stories', 'exhibitionism stories', 'shape-shifting lesbian vampire stories', etc). I very intentionally wanted to stay away from that. The premise I use is a means to take characters on any number of adventures, and as a result the sexual interactions in my stories range from the very romantic to the very kinky, and the stories can't be 'typed'.

The downside is that feature makes them essentially unpublishable by conventional erotica publishers, who need stories that can be easily pigeon-holed into some category as above. So I end up having to self-pub.
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Old 08-27-2012, 04:46 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by Kim_Burly View Post
I'm sorry that I've been absent from my own thread, life does have a way of stealing time from you. To your question Karl, does anyone really want to read about my time in counseling and my introspection as to why I am aroused by pain, humiliation and debasement? I don't think so, no more than I want to read why a metrosexual male is aroused by seeing his wife being screwed and abused by a stranger and then slurping the semen from within her. No one wants to read about the roots of my disorder, just the resulting rough sex.
Well, no; there are some of us who have a compulsion to try to understand everything in the world. We're surely a small niche market within the "true realism" market, though.
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Old 08-27-2012, 06:35 PM   #22
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I prefer realism over fantasy. However, most readers want the fantasy and do not rate the realistic stories as highly.

I write in the mature and incest genres. I am not interested in creating psychologically healthy characters and "lived happily ever after" endings just for the sake of a reader's fantasy. I am much more interested in "how" these people end up in an incestuous relationship. Even if they are consenting adults there is some degree of psychological manipulation going on. Both characters are screwed up and damaged. As a writer, that interests me; the characters may even have something to teach me if I let them act as though they were free of the author's control. The consequence of writing such a story will be a lower rating and maybe even a few nasty comments from people whose oedipal fantasies were ruined.

This is a big enough site with plenty of readers and authors to go around. Realistic stories will find their readers in all genres.

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Old 08-27-2012, 09:28 PM   #23
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OK, I was wrong. People do want to know how others end up in D/s, S&M and other kinky relationships. I have lurked at many BDSM sites (I occasionally contribute) and my impression is that I am in the minority. I don't think what I crave/need is mentally healthy. I wish I didn't have these feelings, but I do and I have accepted it. I don't want to think about the way my parents related to each other when I was growing up, I just want to enjoy having my face brutally fucked when I with my Dom. I've made a lot of mistakes and hurt some people I love, sometimes I just want to compartmentalize.
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Old 08-27-2012, 11:30 PM   #24
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I'm also interested in the psychological aspects of why people want what they do, why they choose their relationships, and the emotional experience of it. Stories allow us to do discuss it without getting too personal; it seems like the story is a veil so people can talk about the feelings that they have or which intrigue them.

It's gotten to the point where all I want to do is the psychological and emotional exploration and skip detailing the sex, but that has a lot to do with my not having much confidence about my ability to write sex well, and that people who I've done sex oriented tandem stories with get to the climax and end the story, which I think is their way of telling me to get lost. I agree that this kind of interest in the psychological is in the minority. I had that experience on another forum.
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Old 08-30-2012, 12:49 PM   #25
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Great questions

These are all great questions, kimburly, bonneville, procndest.

There are many sides to this demand for or interest in 'reality' or 'realism'. Some, I think is just for the work to be gripping and plausible in its own terms, as well as to be rich and complex.

Obviously there are many tastes: some want the details of the kitchen sink, and others want to hear of castles, knights and sorcerers. But within an imagined world, some insist that the sorcerer be interesting and plausible as a human being.

There is no 'right' taste, but it's pretty clear from sales figures that the majority of readers want some forms of excitement and escape. That said, if the maiden finds true love with a shining knight, is that less realistic than if she's a 'slave' allegedly turned on--and ultimately satisfied-- by her master's loaning her to a gang of his buddies.
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