Help please. Spasmed - Cramped

[gentledemands]

Okay. I've done everything I can think of to figure this out but I can't find the solution, so I'm turning to greater minds (yes you).

The words 'cramp' and 'spasm' are both listed as nouns in the dictionary. -ed is used to turn a verb into a past participle. But what's the deal here. -ed is not listed as a general suffix, but does that mean that 'His leg cramped.' or 'Her back spasmed.' are incorrect? What am I missing. Where do I look for information on this idea.

Please don't say "Yeah, they're fine" and walk away. I need to know why. Inquiring mind wants to know.

[Noor]

Originally Posted by gentledemands

Okay. I've done everything I can think of to figure this out but I can't find the solution, so I'm turning to greater minds (yes you).

The words 'cramp' and 'spasm' are both listed as nouns in the dictionary. -ed is used to turn a verb into a past participle. But what's the deal here. -ed is not listed as a general suffix, but does that mean that 'His leg cramped.' or 'Her back spasmed.' are incorrect? What am I missing. Where do I look for information on this idea.

Please don't say "Yeah, they're fine" and walk away. I need to know why. Inquiring mind wants to know.

Not very awake here and I am sure someone will do better but my take on it at present:

cramp is used differently in the US than UK.

Us- your leg can cramp or you get leg cramps, in the UK your leg gets cramp.

There are cramped quarters.

Spasmed doesn't sound correct, I would say her back went into spasms, but not spasmed.

[nakdsub]

His leg got a cramp...her back went into spasms. There are simply no such words as cramped and spasmed. The one that always got me is the pronoun, "her." You would think the possessive pronoun would be, "her's," with the apostrophe showing her possession, but you would be wrong. It is "hers."

[snoopercharmbrights]

As one of the Marx brothers said, "There ain't no noun that can't be verbed."

The Oxford English Dictionary has cramp as a verb as well as a noun.

Noun:
1 Involuntary painful contraction of a muscle or muscles;
2 A portable tool or press with a movable part which can be screwed up so as to hold things together;
3 A footplate of iron etc. worn on ice to secure one's grip.

Verb:
1 Affect with cramp. Usually in the passive mood;
2 Cause (a person) to be seized with cramp;
3 Compress or squeeze with irons in punishment or torture;
4 Restrict or confine narrowly;
5 Deflect or turn to one side. US only;
6 Fasten or secure with a cramp or cramps.

The OED also has spasm as a verb as well as a noun.
Merriam-Webster Online also lists both as noun and verb.

I hope this hasn't cramped anyone's style.

[lazyhobo]

Originally Posted by nakdsub

There are simply no such words as cramped and spasmed

I'm sorry, but I cant agree with this. Cramped is a well known and well used words. After reading snoopers post, I feel no need to go into explanations but here's an example of the word being used;

Originally Posted by Noor

There are cramped quarters.

You've cramped my style.
We're really cramped in here.

The word is real.

[oggbashan]

Originally Posted by lazyhobo

I'm sorry, but I cant agree with this. Cramped is a well known and well used word. After reading snoopers post, I feel no need to go into explanations but here's an example of the word being used;

You've cramped my style.
We're really cramped in here.

The word is real.

But it is not really used for a muscle cramp - more for a restriction in space.

I've checked my Oxford dictionary and Roget's Thesaurus. Both suggest that using the noun is preferred. E.g. Her leg got cramp. She had a sudden cramp in her leg. His back went into spasm, and locked.

[PennLady]

Hmm. Can't cite examples but I'm sure I've come across "cramped" and "spasmed" as verbs and it hasn't been a problem. Things do change after all.

[lazyhobo]

Originally Posted by oggbashan

But it is not really used for a muscle cramp - more for a restriction in space.

I've checked my Oxford dictionary and Roget's Thesaurus. Both suggest that using the noun is preferred. E.g. Her leg got cramp. She had a sudden cramp in her leg. His back went into spasm, and locked.

I wasn't discussing the reasoning here, all I was saying was that "Cramped" IS a word.

[oggbashan]

Originally Posted by lazyhobo

I wasn't discussing the reasoning here, all I was saying was that "Cramped" IS a word.

And I'm agreeing that it is, but at least in British English it is rarely used for the muscle spasm.

[gentledemands]

I appreciate the thoughts. Anyone else?

The usage books are oddly silent. Neither Fowler nor Garner address this word. Love the Marx brothers quote.

For me, 'spasmed' would be the bigger issue. I rarely used cramp or cramped.

Anyone else on spasmed?

Where I'm from, spasmed sounds right. That doesn't carry any more weight than 'it sounds wrong'. When you type it into lit's forum editor, it immediately is tagged with an red underline squiggle. Same thing with MS Word. Now lit, I can deal with the possibility that it's right. MS Word? That's as much reason to think it's right as wrong.

Checked M-W online and didn't see 'spasm' listed as a verb. OED wants $300 a year to access it's online version (let me see what I can find in my pocket besides lint).

All I really want is one good source I can point to to make 'spasmed' legitimate. That's the wonderful thing about living in a world of experts... you can pick your particular bias and then find the person who will help you defend it.

[emap]

Spasmed is one of those it doesn't actually exist but it works words. Seriously think about it, it's not listed in the dictionary and the spell checkers all call it wrong, but it makes sense. To keep it in context for here let's go with this little sentence.

I just can't believe I spasmed into orgasm so easily on him.

Makes sense, but it is not a recognized word. However this is the interesting side to it. English is an evolving language, what is not recognized today in twenty years could be a commonly used and understood word. Granted spasmed isn't likely to be there, but it may end up being recognized eventually.

Basically that means if it works, do it. If it doesn't work don't.

[mynameisben]

Originally Posted by emap

Spasmed is one of those it doesn't actually exist but it works words. Seriously think about it, it's not listed in the dictionary and the spell checkers all call it wrong, but it makes sense. To keep it in context for here let's go with this little sentence.

I just can't believe I spasmed into orgasm so easily on him.

Makes sense, but it is not a recognized word. However this is the interesting side to it. English is an evolving language, what is not recognized today in twenty years could be a commonly used and understood word. Granted spasmed isn't likely to be there, but it may end up being recognized eventually.

Basically that means if it works, do it. If it doesn't work don't.

An explanation so good, I orgasmed in spasms!

[RodenAddison]

I use spasmed. Oy loyk it. It works. 'Spasmed' seems to mean more when you're talking about orgasm than contracted or clutched or gripped. To me, 'spasmed' seems like a whole body response and seems less clinical.

Maybe someone else would like to share their synonym?

[nakdsub]

tempted to do the same, but you can reword, "Her entire body constricted with spasms as..."

[gentledemands]

Pretty sure I figured this out. According to M-W.com spasm is in fact an intransitive verb as well as a noun. It wasn't listed at the top, you had to look for it down farther.

That should mean that spasm, as long as it is the verb for the subject and not the object, can be modified with -ed making it a past tense. In that case then, spasm can be past tense(d).

Sorry, couldn't resist.

[palisa]

Originally Posted by gentledemands

Pretty sure I figured this out. According to M-W.com spasm is in fact an intransitive verb as well as a noun. It wasn't listed at the top, you had to look for it down farther.

That should mean that spasm, as long as it is the verb for the subject and not the object, can be modified with -ed making it a past tense. In that case then, spasm can be past tense(d).

Sorry, couldn't resist.

Here's what I see on MW.com. Can you find what I missed?

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/spasm

[snoopercharmbrights]

Originally Posted by palisa

Here's what I see on MW.com. Can you find what I missed?

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/spasm

Yes, I can. You missed the last line of this part of the page:

Definition of SPASM
1
: an involuntary and abnormal muscular contraction
2
: a sudden violent and temporary effort, emotion, or sensation <a spasm of creativity> <spasms of pain>
— spasm intransitive verb

[R. Richard]

A muscle spasm is a violent contraction of a muscle, at full strength. It's a well know condition in sports.
A cramp might be the same thing, but normally is used to refer to a milder contraction.

[palisa]

Originally Posted by snoopercharmbrights

Yes, I can. You missed the last line of this part of the page:

Yep...skipped right over it.

[Wildfire8470]

Originally Posted by gentledemands

Okay. I've done everything I can think of to figure this out but I can't find the solution, so I'm turning to greater minds (yes you).

The words 'cramp' and 'spasm' are both listed as nouns in the dictionary. -ed is used to turn a verb into a past participle. But what's the deal here. -ed is not listed as a general suffix, but does that mean that 'His leg cramped.' or 'Her back spasmed.' are incorrect? What am I missing. Where do I look for information on this idea.

Please don't say "Yeah, they're fine" and walk away. I need to know why. Inquiring mind wants to know.

Maybe this will help. It's Purdue's OWL Site on participles:
http://owl.english.purdue.edu/owl/resource/627/02/

[RodenAddison]

Originally Posted by Wildfire8470

Maybe this will help. It's Purdue's OWL Site on participles:
http://owl.english.purdue.edu/owl/resource/627/02/

Nice link. Thank you.

[Wildfire8470]

Originally Posted by RodenAddison

Nice link. Thank you.

You're welcome. Glad I could help.

Wildfire8470

[master_chay]

In terms of literature, which isn't school grammar (and the site is called LITER ...), creative writers can certainly use precedence extensions of any given word, even if it is not in "the" "dictionary."

That includes turning verbs into nouns, and using extensions on words in the same structure as all the other words that have these extensions.

Literature can and probably should go further than that and embrace word creations, new words and in general, take that dictionary out of the wrinkled, age spotted claws of the school teacher and then chuck it out of the window if that should become necessary in the course of creative expression.

There is a place for clinging white knuckled to the dictionary, but is attempting to evoke passionate and visceral human interactions that place?

I think not.

Shoot me ...

[master_chay]

There is also convulsing and convulsions.

As an alternative to cramps and spasming.

And contractions.

In Victorian times, a spasm was the medical term for an involuntary orgasm suddenly erupting due to lack of sexual activity; spasming was deemed to be a mental disorder and could lead to being put into a lunatic asylum. It was not uncommon for people to spasm in the streets at the sight of a ladies shoe and such ...

[gentledemands]

master_clay I agree with you. Very well put. I know there are definitely times to break the 'rules' which seem as often as not to be usage and not grammar. I appreciate your comments. Hadn't know that about Victorian England. Add to that the fact that I think I may be developing a foot fetish, and all that racy talk of shoes . . .