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Old 11-20-2008, 12:50 PM   #101
intothewoods
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Of course, it's not for me to say, but, um, defiant? Because you didn't want to leave 8 year old girls somewhere alone, especially one who is not your own? Perhaps this is something I don't understand because I'm not a slave. I just don't understand taking an approach which pits the mother in you against the slave.
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Old 11-20-2008, 01:38 PM   #102
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Originally Posted by intothewoods View Post
Of course, it's not for me to say, but, um, defiant? Because you didn't want to leave 8 year old girls somewhere alone, especially one who is not your own? Perhaps this is something I don't understand because I'm not a slave. I just don't understand taking an approach which pits the mother in you against the slave.
I think weighing the needs of your children against the needs of your master can be a challenging decision. The internet is peppered with stories of mothers who have made horrible decisions because they put the needs of a master first.

I hope most people have the response you have, and see clearly that being a "slave" does not abrogate you from responsibility, and the obligation of making good decisions regarding children in your care.

Both my husband and I are reasonable, mature adults, constantly measuring the impact of our behavior on our children. But it doesn't mean that moments like these don't exist. Moments when we wish we had the time and space to just do what we want without limitations or restrictions, but can't.

(It also doesn't mean that I'm spared from the consequences of going against his wishes.)

Last edited by eastern sun : 11-20-2008 at 04:24 PM.
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Old 11-20-2008, 08:50 PM   #103
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Originally Posted by intothewoods View Post
Of course, it's not for me to say, but, um, defiant? Because you didn't want to leave 8 year old girls somewhere alone, especially one who is not your own? Perhaps this is something I don't understand because I'm not a slave. I just don't understand taking an approach which pits the mother in you against the slave.
Neither do I. And I'm not a slave either. I think her husband needs a reality check

Quote:
Originally Posted by eastern sun
punishment for my act of defiance entailed a cold withdrawal of affection coupled with silent disapproval and the kind of black looks that signal his anger and disappointment. And the warmth does not return until I have demonstrated that I understand what his needs are and am willing to meet them without flinching.
My ex husband used to do this. That's (partly) why he's my ex. The "silent treatment" is a hard limit for me. I think it's childish and manipulative behaviour.

I guess slavery isn't for me.
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Last edited by Bandit58 : 11-20-2008 at 10:35 PM. Reason: for clarity
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Old 11-20-2008, 10:35 PM   #104
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My ex husband used to do this. That's (partly) why he's my ex. The "silent treatment" is a hard limit for me. I think it's childish and manipulative behaviour.

I guess slavery isn't for me.
It's interesting. I struggled with the "silent treatment" for years. And I don't love it either.

The problem is the fact that I don't love it isn't going to change his behavior. That change has to come from him.

So I look at my options. 1) I can decide that he's not the man for me, and find a man who doesn't use the "silent treatment." 2) I can refuse to accept it, ask him to change for me, call him a "child," etc. 3) Accept it as the best he can do in that moment; and try to figure out what's bothering him.

Well, I'm not going to leave. That's part of our contract. I tried asking him to change, called him a child, yelled louder the quieter he got, and we both grew more and more miserable. So I'm left now with option 3.

When I accept it as the best he can offer in that moment, it doesn't really bother me. In fact, it makes me feel some compassion for the fact that he is suffering. And it always passes.

For me, staying in the relationship is key. And it requires that I accept a few things I don't love.

(I can only imagine what he puts up with in me.)
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Old 11-21-2008, 02:23 AM   #105
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Neither do I. And I'm not a slave either. I think her husband needs a reality check
The injured guy who is in pain and on crutches needs a reality check because he did not cheerfully accept the idea that he needed to carry his wounded ass out to get the food, hobble into two different restaurants, and somehow carry the food out while on crutches?

I'm not hemming Eastern Sun up here by the way. Your own kids aside, when you're watching someone else's kid, you have responsibility for them, and have to meet with their parents' expectations. If her own kid get shurt because she's alone, she gets to deal with it. If the other kid gets hurt, she could get sued or arrested. The burden of responsibility is enormous, and thus defiance is totally understandable IMO.

That said, Bandit, I want to say that you've spoken before of how rough it can get when Gil is having a particularly bad day, and I remember him talking about it as well. I know I've been there. You don't exactly hold some magical power as a dominant to not be human. We get sick and injured too, and get downright cranky about it at times.

If her Master had parlayed his irritation into some diabolical torture, I would be more likely to have issues. Yeah, the silent treatment might suck, but the guy is probably pissed, still hurting, and potentially feeling less than his usual badass self. "Ten foot tall and bulletproof" is tough to maintain when your method of locomotion is best described as "tortured hobbling"

Quote:
My ex husband used to do this. That's (partly) why he's my ex. The "silent treatment" is a hard limit for me. I think it's childish and manipulative behaviour.

I guess slavery isn't for me.
It's not for most people.
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Old 11-21-2008, 05:34 AM   #106
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I can see both ITW's and Homburg's points and they both have merit. For me, the knowledge that he will act with me according to his mood and that I have no right to expect him to be reasonable or fair gives my slavery an added kick. His capriciousness and unpredictability keep me on my toes and remind me more than most other things exactly where my place is with him.

I would not have abandoned the kids but like easternsun, I would have accepted his silence and disappointment with equanimity.
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Old 11-21-2008, 05:55 AM   #107
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Originally Posted by Homburg View Post
The injured guy who is in pain and on crutches needs a reality check because he did not cheerfully accept the idea that he needed to carry his wounded ass out to get the food, hobble into two different restaurants, and somehow carry the food out while on crutches?
There are alternatives to that They could have gotten the food delivered and paid the tip (that's a foreign thing to me here in Aus btw, we tend not to tip here). They could also have rounded the kids up and taken them with them to pick up the food. Eastern sun could have gone and picked the food up instead, leaving him in charge of the kids.

Quote:
I'm not hemming Eastern Sun up here by the way. Your own kids aside, when you're watching someone else's kid, you have responsibility for them, and have to meet with their parents' expectations. If her own kid get shurt because she's alone, she gets to deal with it. If the other kid gets hurt, she could get sued or arrested. The burden of responsibility is enormous, and thus defiance is totally understandable IMO.
In mine too.

Quote:
That said, Bandit, I want to say that you've spoken before of how rough it can get when Gil is having a particularly bad day, and I remember him talking about it as well. I know I've been there. You don't exactly hold some magical power as a dominant to not be human. We get sick and injured too, and get downright cranky about it at times.
Thanks for noticing It means that we have to compromise on things, maybe a lot more than a normal D/s couple. I also have to "take charge" sometimes when it comes to His health. It's permanent, nothing's going to get any better with it, so we suck it up and make the best of things.
That's not to say that He isn't stern when the need arises or as He sees fit

Quote:
If her Master had parlayed his irritation into some diabolical torture, I would be more likely to have issues. Yeah, the silent treatment might suck, but the guy is probably pissed, still hurting, and potentially feeling less than his usual badass self. "Ten foot tall and bulletproof" is tough to maintain when your method of locomotion is best described as "tortured hobbling"
Sir is in pain 24/7, but He doesn't take it out on me. I'm sure eastern sun's husband will be back on his feet in a few days/weeks. Sir's pain is permanent.
I guess my nerve is still raw from going through the silent treatment so many times over more than 20 years. My self esteem still needs work, I still feel I have been emotionally damaged from it. If eastern sun feels she can live with it in order to keep her relationship, good luck to her. But for me, it's going to be a permanent deal breaker.

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It's not for most people.
I don't feel so bad now
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I love being married. It's so great to find that one special person you want to annoy for the rest of your life!

The power of submission lies not in the ability to kneel before another, to give over one's body or in the wearing of a collar.
The power of submission can be found only in the heart of one who gives her love to another freely knowing what joy and pain will come of it - Roguer


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Old 11-21-2008, 07:40 AM   #108
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Originally Posted by VelvetDarkness View Post

I would not have abandoned the kids but like easternsun, I would have accepted his silence and disappointment with equanimity.
Accepting treatment with "equanimity " - to me, one of the most noble humam sentiments and, on a large scale, the foundation for civilized behaviour. On an individual basis, the currency of a durable marriage. How refreshing to learn that some still act this way and have the wisdom to verbalize this inner strenghth.
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Old 11-21-2008, 07:53 AM   #109
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It's interesting. I struggled with the "silent treatment" for years. And I don't love it either.

The problem is the fact that I don't love it isn't going to change his behavior. That change has to come from him.

So I look at my options. 1) I can decide that he's not the man for me, and find a man who doesn't use the "silent treatment." 2) I can refuse to accept it, ask him to change for me, call him a "child," etc. 3) Accept it as the best he can do in that moment; and try to figure out what's bothering him.

Well, I'm not going to leave. That's part of our contract. I tried asking him to change, called him a child, yelled louder the quieter he got, and we both grew more and more miserable. So I'm left now with option 3.

When I accept it as the best he can offer in that moment, it doesn't really bother me. In fact, it makes me feel some compassion for the fact that he is suffering. And it always passes.

For me, staying in the relationship is key. And it requires that I accept a few things I don't love.

(I can only imagine what he puts up with in me.)

Your first impulse was to make the right decision, even though you knew there would be unpleasant consequences. You are a remarkable person - but your husband must obviously possess some fine qualities to warrant so much devotion from you.
Next time I'm in Rome I'm going to ask the Pope to bestow Sainthood on you.
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Old 11-21-2008, 08:48 AM   #110
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Originally Posted by Homburg View Post
If her own kid get shurt because she's alone, she gets to deal with it. If the other kid gets hurt, she could get sued or arrested. The burden of responsibility is enormous, and thus defiance is totally understandable IMO.
Tha's all I'm saying.
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Old 11-21-2008, 11:49 AM   #111
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I'd say the most problematic aspect of that story was the father's apparent abdication of responsibility with respect to the children.

The husband's response to the wife's "defiance" seems secondary to that point.
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Old 11-21-2008, 12:00 PM   #112
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There are alternatives to that They could have gotten the food delivered and paid the tip (that's a foreign thing to me here in Aus btw, we tend not to tip here). They could also have rounded the kids up and taken them with them to pick up the food. Eastern sun could have gone and picked the food up instead, leaving him in charge of the kids.
I thought the same thing too. He was being unreasonable. I just accept that there are times when people are going to be unreasonable for reasonable reasons. There's a lot of reason in that sentence. In this situation, Easter Sun was being "unreasonable" for the best of reasons (discharging her duty to protect her Master's interests on the potentially LARGE legal scale is more important in the long run than helping him get the food), while her Master was being unreasonable for understandable reasons.

This is why I wanted to emphasize that I do not think the ES did wrong in a complex and difficult situation. That said, it could not have been a fun decision to make, and, honestly, there *may* have been a better way to handle it on everyones part. *shrug* I was not there, and I'm not privy to immediate details in the relationship. I say there may have been a better way simply because there almost always is, and I know I'm frequently the last person to realise said better way when I am in whatever situation is causing stress.

Quote:
Thanks for noticing It means that we have to compromise on things, maybe a lot more than a normal D/s couple. I also have to "take charge" sometimes when it comes to His health. It's permanent, nothing's going to get any better with it, so we suck it up and make the best of things.
That's not to say that He isn't stern when the need arises or as He sees fit

Sir is in pain 24/7, but He doesn't take it out on me. I'm sure eastern sun's husband will be back on his feet in a few days/weeks. Sir's pain is permanent.
See, in my view, this makes ES's Master's mood *more* understandable. Not downplaying Gil's situation in the slightest, but he is in it 24/7 and is used to it. It is a testament to his character that he is not a cranky miserable bastard. When an injury pops up like this, and you go from being perfectly functional to instant invalid, it is tough to maintain stoic emotional badassery constantly. Situations like this are prime for it too, as he'd gotten home from work, was tired, hurting more because of being at work all day, and, frankly, when you get home, you tend to loosen the tie in many ways, and your emotions are less checked as a result. I know MIS can survive virtually anything when she is in front of a class, but will tumble down flat when she gets home and lets go.


Quote:
I guess my nerve is still raw from going through the silent treatment so many times over more than 20 years. My self esteem still needs work, I still feel I have been emotionally damaged from it. If eastern sun feels she can live with it in order to keep her relationship, good luck to her. But for me, it's going to be a permanent deal breaker.
20 years is a lot of damage to heal from. I've heard that it takes twice as long to recover from something like that as it did to inflict, but I'm hoping that you beat those odds.

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I don't feel so bad now
It really isn't for most people. Some folks see M/s as sort of "taking it to the next level" in BDSM, and it just isn't. It's like riding a horse instead of taking a car. Similar concepts, and they will more or less get you to the same places, but the experience along the way is vastly different. And, wow, that experience would suck for someone unless that life called to them with a need they could not ignore.
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You can call me "Homburg". Still accepting Rope Bunny applications, of course.

Disclaimer: Live your life how you want to live. Be secure enough in what you do that _my_ words won't affect you. Because my opinion has no material meaning in your life beyond what you let it have.
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Old 11-21-2008, 12:09 PM   #113
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Context is everything, I guess.

I've suffered through a million little hissyfits from M and the scowly shadow that passes over him afterward for a day maybe, or a few hours, without comment, punishment, or argument, because that's just his human bag o' shit. We all have one.

I just don't see the point, as a Dominant, for railing against everything, even if it's pointed at me, sometimes. If I want to rein him in and school him I will and can. But it's much more effective when done gently and for things I really find crucial. I *did* have a talking to him the other night because his impatience is trying at times and I needed to explain that I am a stop and smell the roses person in case he hadn't noticed and my reflexes aren't like his and he's going to have to learn to wait without snapping.

I guess I'm not seeing how it's a slavery thing only, to deal with the emotional fallout of not caving into your partner's demands and having enough boundary to say to yourself "your disappointment is yours, sorry, take it out on me if you must, I'm still here."


It's funny. I have weird triggers. A day of silent grumpy is better to me than one small exasperated sigh. Even just doing that around me is like personal affront. To M it can mean "I'm bored." or "I'm thinking here." In my family it always meant "Oh wow, you are just too stupid to live, aren't you?"
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Old 11-21-2008, 12:28 PM   #114
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I'd say the most problematic aspect of that story was the father's apparent abdication of responsibility with respect to the children.

The husband's response to the wife's "defiance" seems secondary to that point.
Well, proposed abdication.

I am trying to remember when I was first left alone for a bit. I did ride the public bus at 8 years old, though times were different then I think. Sadly. I would never do that in the city I live in now. Well, anyway, the presence of a kid who isn't theirs kind of made it a no-brainer to me.


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I guess I'm not seeing how it's a slavery thing only, to deal with the emotional fallout of not caving into your partner's demands and having enough boundary to say to yourself "your disappointment is yours, sorry, take it out on me if you must, I'm still here."
Can H (I have that initial right, don't I? I used to get confused and think that H=husband ) say that to you? Would that be okay?
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Old 11-21-2008, 12:29 PM   #115
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Well, proposed abdication.

I am trying to remember when I was first left alone for a bit. I did ride the public bus at 8 years old, though times were different then I think. Sadly. I would never do that in the city I live in now. Well, anyway, the presence of a kid who isn't theirs kind of made it a no-brainer to me.




Can H (I have that initial right, don't I? I used to get confused and think that H=husband ) say that to you? Would that be okay?
I'm talkin' about M. He's the husband, H is the slave. I have a passionate though not romantic relationship with H. Well, there's a kind of romance, but it's more like having a co-author or a dance partner. I know that he'll backflip over anything I say immediately. That's the protocol. That is the entire basis of the relationship - not shared housing, goals, children, or romantic love, but friendship, and love of the project of being this dyad. I use him. His time, wisdom, presence, and his labor. There are boundaries that I've chosen, and it's much easier to be strict about the boundary of other people's children who are grown and you don't live with.

My mandate is not that I have him at my disposal *all the time* rather, *whenever and however I want.* As often as not that's just a two hour phonecall to shoot the shit.


And yes, I think M could totally say that of me. I have hissyfits too and not all of them have to be catered to. I even tend to know when I'm being unreasonable. I'm much more volatile a person, he has to do that more than I do. I have to have a high level of trust with someone in a LTR because I can be an ugly fuck.

But I have this weird and profound INTJ sense of "no, this matters to me, this MUST be heeded" versus "GIMME NOW!" which is fun, but less necessary.
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Old 11-21-2008, 12:52 PM   #116
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And yes, I think M could totally say that of me. I have hissyfits too and not all of them have to be catered to. I even tend to know when I'm being unreasonable. I'm much more volatile a person, he has to do that more than I do. I have to have a high level of trust with someone in a LTR because I can be an ugly fuck.
This is the sort of self-knowledge that I worry about. I tend to know when I'm being unreasonable, but sometimes I don't see it. Probably another reason why there is some definite sympathy from me towards ES's Master. I've been in those shoes.

And, yeah, I can be volatile too.

Quote:
But I have this weird and profound INTJ sense of "no, this matters to me, this MUST be heeded" versus "GIMME NOW!" which is fun, but less necessary.
Yeah, I don't do the "GIMME NOW" thing. Blech. But when I'm serious about something, get out of my way or help me get it.
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You can call me "Homburg". Still accepting Rope Bunny applications, of course.

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Old 11-21-2008, 01:13 PM   #117
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I would not in a million years have a slave that wouldn't put a child ahead of me.
I really can’t believe the man who wouldn’t be flexible when there were kids in the picture, it’s quite… well I don’t know what to say… I don’t want to offend Easternsun who is sharing so generously from her life 

I think a trap many dominants can fall into is to actually start believing they are worth more (and are more important) when all comes to all.

When you are a mother I cannot for the life of me understand that you would accept this behavior from him. If it was me I would have taken my children and left the house for a few days until he “clears up” and gets real.
He is at the bottom of it all, NOT more important than you Eor those children. And I really think he needs a wakeup call.

Silent treatments needs to stop ASAP. It is not good for a relationship of any kind. PERIOD. If he wants your relationship to grow, he’s gonna have to make sacrifices to,


Question: You say you cannot leave, as that is part of your contract. What areas of the contract speak about him? As in; Do you have any areas that he is responsible for or bound by? Such as when things like this occure.

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Old 11-21-2008, 01:16 PM   #118
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Well, proposed abdication.

I am trying to remember when I was first left alone for a bit. I did ride the public bus at 8 years old, though times were different then I think. Sadly. I would never do that in the city I live in now. Well, anyway, the presence of a kid who isn't theirs kind of made it a no-brainer to me.
Okay, let me put this another way.

The OP stated that "weighing the needs of your children against the needs of your master can be a challenging decision." What I don't get is why she's not more concerned about the master's apparent refusal to put the needs of the children ahead of his own needs, in this instance.
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Old 11-21-2008, 01:28 PM   #119
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What I don't get is why she's not more concerned about the master's apparent refusal to put the needs of the children ahead of his own needs, in this instance.
Thank you! It's absurd really
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Old 11-21-2008, 01:44 PM   #120
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Okay, let me put this another way.

The OP stated that "weighing the needs of your children against the needs of your master can be a challenging decision." What I don't get is why she's not more concerned about the master's apparent refusal to put the needs of the children ahead of his own needs, in this instance.
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Thank you! It's absurd really
I'm allowing room for the possibility that he knows he was wrong, but is stubborn and is pouting or stewing or thinking or whatever.
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Old 11-21-2008, 02:04 PM   #121
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Originally Posted by Netzach View Post
Context is everything, I guess.

I guess I'm not seeing how it's a slavery thing only, to deal with the emotional fallout of not caving into your partner's demands and having enough boundary to say to yourself "your disappointment is yours, sorry, take it out on me if you must, I'm still here."
I think you're absolutely right, Netzach. Context is everything.

In my life, in my relationship, identifying as a "slave" in the context of a marriage significantly reduces the feelings of resentment and even brings some mind-bending pleasure to situations that can tax the patience of most people, but are common to any long-term relationship.

And I also agree that having to put up with a partner's bad moods is hardly "a slavery thing." Instead, the context of an M/s relationship changes the way I perceive what I'm doing. And turns something I might reject in another context, to something I must accept in this context. Then, it's up to me what to do with it.

I am curious, since you are in both a marriage and an M/s relationship, how they play out in your life. I can understand how they meet different needs. Can you see how it might be possible to blend them? Would you want to?
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Old 11-21-2008, 02:12 PM   #122
Homburg
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Originally Posted by Kathykitten View Post
I would not in a million years have a slave that wouldn't put a child ahead of me.
Me neither (and that actually means something given that I have two of the former and four of the latter). That said...

Quote:
I really can’t believe the man who wouldn’t be flexible when there were kids in the picture, it’s quite… well I don’t know what to say… I don’t want to offend Easternsun who is sharing so generously from her life 

I think a trap many dominants can fall into is to actually start believing they are worth more (and are more important) when all comes to all.
"Dominant" is a less than accurate term for this particular milieu. While it puts a fine point on things, he is not a "dominant" in this relationship. He is the "Master". It is not D/s, it's M/s. The rules are different.

That said, even in D/s, while the dominant partner is not more important in toto, by the structure of the dynamic, said dominant partners wants are per force more important, and certainly more immediate. That is pretty intrinsic to the formation of an unequal power relationship.

Again, the dominant person is not more important in theory, but his or her wants are more important, at least in the sort of micro view we're talking here. In any functional relationship, no one's needs are more important in the macro sense, but there is no long view being taken here.

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When you are a mother I cannot for the life of me understand that you would accept this behavior from him. If it was me I would have taken my children and left the house for a few days until he “clears up” and gets real.
Again, she is a slave. The rules are different. Not trying to answer for Eastern Sun. ust trying to clarify that M/s is a different, and oft-misunderstood, world.

Quote:
He is at the bottom of it all, NOT more important than you Eor those children. And I really think he needs a wakeup call.

Silent treatments needs to stop ASAP. It is not good for a relationship of any kind. PERIOD. If he wants your relationship to grow, he’s gonna have to make sacrifices to,
*blink* Why the vehemence? Did he drag her out into the street by hair and frog march her to the store? Did he set her on fire? Or did he just get sullen and pissy for a while? I'm not saying that he was the Dalai Lama, but, she-yow, mention silent treatment and people suddenly get their hair on fire.

Quote:
Question: You say you cannot leave, as that is part of your contract. What areas of the contract speak about him? As in; Do you have any areas that he is responsible for or bound by? Such as when things like this occure.
Interesting question. Personally, I have no contracts written out with either of my gals. They both surrendered. It's the "T" in "TPE". The few M/s people that I know in my personal life don't have contracts, so it would interesting to hear if ES and her Master do have one.

(This may be a personal question though, so I wholly understand if no information is forthcoming)

--

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Originally Posted by JMohegan View Post
Okay, let me put this another way.

The OP stated that "weighing the needs of your children against the needs of your master can be a challenging decision." What I don't get is why she's not more concerned about the master's apparent refusal to put the needs of the children ahead of his own needs, in this instance.
We see it differently. At the end of the day, and per her descriptions, the guy is guilty of being sullen and uncommunicative. He may have wanted his needs served before those of the children, but I can want a rainbow in my backyard and it won't convince the rain to put one there.

I'm not saying his behaviour was sterling, but what is wrong with wanting something? Again, no violence or coercion was used.

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Originally Posted by Kathykitten View Post
Thank you! It's absurd really
Quote:
Originally Posted by intothewoods View Post
I'm allowing room for the possibility that he knows he was wrong, but is stubborn and is pouting or stewing or thinking or whatever.
Yup, this would be me in such a situation. I'll admit I'm wrong, but not until I've calmed down and stewed a bit (assuming that I worked myself up in teh process of being wrong-headed.)
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Last edited by Homburg : 11-21-2008 at 02:18 PM.
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Old 11-21-2008, 02:28 PM   #123
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To everyone who feels that he is irresponsible or worse. . .

let me remind you that you are judging him on the basis of a story I wrote. I have intentionally painted a picture that captured the experience from my own perspective, one that reinforced my identity as "slave." If he were to write the story, it would undoubtably turn out differently.

To get a fuller picture, I would refer you to Homburg's posts. He has characterized who my husband actually is most accurately.

I don't doubt that fatherhood has cramped my husband's style. I know that there are a number of simple pleasures that he misses. But he would never put our children in danger. He believes that I am a better judge of our children's needs, and he rarely questions my judgement, even though it frequently goes against his wishes. And because he supports me when I'm right (and challenges me when I'm wrong - I really do need to give them a healthier diet) I trust him enough to call him my master.

Please do not use this story about our lives to judge us harshly. If you read carefully, we made no mistakes. Our children are safe.

I think the nature of the discussion is fascinating though. I do learn from your comments. And welcome everyone's perspective.
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Old 11-21-2008, 02:42 PM   #124
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To get a fuller picture, I would refer you to Homburg's posts. He has characterized who my husband actually is most accurately.
I'd hoped that my similar perspective would help, but I did worry about over-stepping bounds. You've said he reads this thread on occasion.

Quote:
I don't doubt that fatherhood has cramped my husband's style. I know that there are a number of simple pleasures that he misses. But he would never put our children in danger. He believes that I am a better judge of our children's needs, and he rarely questions my judgement, even though it frequently goes against his wishes. And because he supports me when I'm right (and challenges me when I'm wrong - I really do need to give them a healthier diet) I trust him enough to call him my master.
The bolded portion is something that I've learned as well. viv is more in tune with the needs of our kids, period. She disagrees with me on various issues, and is not shy about letting me know (though it is generally in a respectful tone). That area is the closest to equal in our relationship, as we always talk over what to do with the kids.

Something many people seem to miss is that slave's can still "take the lead" in an M/s relationship, in certain circumstances. Do they take a leadership position? No, of course not, but, as mentioned above, viv knows the kids' needs better, so I tend to give her opinion more weight.

A similar example would be Netz comment about making use of H's wisdom. When your slave is knowledgable and competent, you tend to make use of that knowledge and competence. There is nothing challenging towards the power dynamic about acknowledging that your slave knows more about a given topic than you do.
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I am not usually one for titles. In my world, titles are reserved for relationships.
Millificent (aka "viv") and myinnerslut both call me "Master".
You can call me "Homburg". Still accepting Rope Bunny applications, of course.

Disclaimer: Live your life how you want to live. Be secure enough in what you do that _my_ words won't affect you. Because my opinion has no material meaning in your life beyond what you let it have.
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Old 11-21-2008, 02:51 PM   #125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kathykitten View Post
Question: You say you cannot leave, as that is part of your contract. What areas of the contract speak about him? As in; Do you have any areas that he is responsible for or bound by? Such as when things like this occure.
The only formal agreement we have made is that we will not leave. No matter what. Apart from that there are no rules. Just the consequences of our action.

Neither of us is spared from the other's bad behavior. I have learned, as his "slave," not to harbor any expectations of change. Change occurs, but it is not because I demand it.

On the other hand, also because I am his "slave," when he asks for something, I try to do what he asks of me. He has learned that I may not succeed.

We're both happy in this arrangement, happier than we were before.

There was a time when I wanted a set of written rules. The instruction manual that would help me get it right. It's much harder without it, but my understanding of cause and effect, of my own values and desires, of his values and desires, of the laws of nature (including human nature), are much deeper for having to learn it by trial and error.

Because there are no safety nets though, it is vitally important that I trust him. And I do. I have lived with this man for twenty three years. He still continues to surprise me. But I trust him deeply.

I would not willingly give up so much to someone I did not know well and trust implicitly.

Does any of that make sense?
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