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Old 03-11-2005, 03:22 PM   #1
LadyCibelle
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Exclamation Writers and Editors' reference guide

As most of you know, if you've read the thread by BridgeBurner pertaining to reference guide for writing and editing, I've decided to create that list of website that could be helpful for writers and editors.

If any of you have more links like this one, don't hesitate to PM them to me and I'll add them as they come.


This one appears to be a site for English as a Second or Foreign language but it's easy to follow and has lots of examples and the proper names for everything. It mainly seems to deal with verbs, but it has all of the coulda', woulda', shoulda' stuff and how to keep tenses in agreement within a sentence/paragraph etc.

Advanced English Lessons


http://owl.english.purdue.edu/

"The link is Purdu University's Online writing lab -- the best of the University Online Writing Lab sites out of the few I've checked out -- most are similar, but Purdue's explanations of knotty problems seems to me to be a bit more comprehensive and explanatory.

It's oriented to acedemic and business writing but the explanations -- especially the grammar and punctuation eplanations -- are applicable to any kind of writing."
WeirdHarold

Punctuating Dialogue

And here's another one from BridgeBurner for punctuating dialogue

This one is from Rad'l

Quote:
There are several references that might help a writer. Over the years I have come to respect:

"The Elements of Style" by William Strunk, Jr. and E.B. White, Macmillan Paperbacks - original edition published 1935,many editions since then, mine is from 1963.

commonly known as "Strunk & White". Consise and direct, no nonsense.

Fowler: English Usage and his American usage, two other, more formal, guides. (I can' lay my hands on either one at the moment - but reccomend either or both.)
Quote:
another site for the Editor/Author reference thread. This one is on POV. I know it says something about "teen" writing, but it's got some very good info
http://teenwriting.about.com/librar...y/aa111102e.htm
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Last edited by LadyCibelle : 12-02-2005 at 09:14 PM.
 

Old 08-12-2005, 11:20 PM   #2
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Everybody Should Read That!!!!!!

I think that anyone who's seriously into writing and/or editing should take a definite close look at this. This is VERY informative and so clear and concise. It should be required, IMHO, to read it before deciding to write or edit any stories.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Snooper
There are two sorts of editors:
- literary editors who comment on texts at the level of reader reaction, pick up continuity errors (like character discrepancies), and generally try to help a writer to improve their work by pointing out things the writer herself will miss;
- copy editors who confine themselves to orthography in its widest sense.

Most of the Volunteer Editors do both. In the real world of publishing, copy-editors get paid well, and Literary Edotors are only available for very large sums of money, and usually only for very well-established writers
.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jtmalone70
[...] I'm a literary editor by profession and have been for nearly fourteen years. There was a time, however, when I would take on smaller copy editing projects, but the cost/time benefit was much too large. In the time it took to correct basic "mechanical" errors in a manuscript, I could have made three times the money working on a larger piece of work for an author who already mastered the basics.

Copy editing doesn't pay much simply because more is expected of the writer; what with all the available tools at the ready for them to do their own proofing of a manuscript.

Since I've been in Literotica, I've probably had at least a dozen people ask for my assistance in editing something for them. I always tell them I'll take a look at it, but if I immediately see many obvious and glaring technical errors, I'm not going to take on the project. Not only would I have to edit the content of the story, but the mechanics, as well, something they should have taken care of before submitting it to me.

In terms of those I've helped with the actual literary content, I've noticed a trend that is even common in the mainstream of the publishing industry. New authors tend not to listen or heed the advice of editors. When I have helped a small handful of folks here on Literotica, in terms of content and style, they universally refuse to listen, as if I have absolutely no idea what I'm talking about. I mean, geesh, I'm not trying to toot my own horn here or puff out my chest and boast, but, wow, you know, I really DO do this for a living, and, if I do say so myself, I know for a fact I make just as much working on my own, as an editor, than if I had an office with a large publishing house. I think most folks would be rather surprised to know what I make and how much I charge and that plenty of authors are willing to pay for those services.

Snooper is absolutely correct, when he says literary editors don't come cheap. That might even be a bit of an understatement. There are some very good reasons for that, too.

But I will say this: there is one person I helped who was really nice and fun to work with, and they actually listened to what I had to suggest. And later on, when they sent a story for me to look at, I was really quite impressed with it. That makes the VE program worth the effort.

On the other hand, there are those who've asked for help, and in the end I really had to wonder why they bothered, since they didn't want to pay attention. I had one person send me a story, which was, by and large, ok, though I did spruce it up for them. The end product did read much better - although they rejected nearly all of the changes I suggested, opting to keep the story essentially unchanged. It was wholly wrong of them to do so, as the changes were necessary, IF they wanted their story cleaned up professionally. The only real issue I had was that the person, well, more or less, plagarized the story; they took a story that was already out there in the mainstream, made a few slight modifications, gave it a more modern feel, but over all, merely adjusted the cosmetics and called it their own. When I brought this to their attention, well, they didn't think it was a big deal, and, to be sure, it wasn't all that much. However, geesh... I told them, well, if you had actually submitted this as a real story to a real publishing firm, not only would they reject it, simply because the story was standing on rather "iffy" ground, but they might also casually alert other firms to be on the lookout for your work, in case you really DID plagarize for real somewhere else or at a later time.

But it fell on deaf ears, I think. I'm fairly certain, if I recall correctly, that they submitted their story to a contest on here and it actually placed, though only second or third, I believe. Well, in a sense, that was disappointing, because it only served to nullify my editing suggestions and advice. I think the person walked away from that experience with the idea that they were more astute and aware of their own work than they really were.

There's nothing wrong with having your own creative style, which this author I helped seemed to use in order to excuse the many errors in their work. However, new and inexperienced authors MUST realize there are tried and true methods that DO work. You can't simply break from them under the premise of individual creativity. "That's just MY style." IF you can make it work, great, but nine times out of ten, it won't, and you need to rethink your strategy. That's what an editor is for: to help you plot and plan your story more effectively.

Well, anyway, I think a lot of authors here that ask for help via the VE program need to understand a few things, before requesting assistance. Do as much proofing of their work before submitting, and then be willing to let the editor go over their work with a red pen, so to speak. They're only there to help, not hinder
.
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Old 09-24-2005, 10:48 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cal Y. Pygia
This is nothing more than another long diatribe by someone who fancies himself an editor (i. e., another frustrated, want-to-be writer). How pathetic.
...and that person happens to be a professional literary editor.

...which would be me.

And, yes, I know exactly what I'm talking about.

I'll even toot my own horn: read any of my stories and compare them to anything on this website. And that's not bragging. It's simply a matter of pointing out that what I know about writing and editing, as compared to those such as yourself, is painfully obvious. And, the only reason I have those skills and to such a degree, is because I've worked in the field professionally for over fourteen years.

What's truely pathetic is your attitude toward writing. I've seen it an untold number of times over the years by hopefuls such as yourself; cocksure of themself and their skills, but woefully mistaken on both counts. But that seems to go with the territory. Seems like every green writer thinks they've got what it takes and doesn't need the advice of a literary editor. Nooo... Why, that new author knows it all. They know what sells and what doesn't and the why behind it all.

...that is, until a copy editor gets ahold of their manuscript and laughs, as they toss it.

Gosh, I just can't imagine why every well-known and published author has their own private literary editor. Hmm... really makes ya wonder, doesn't it?

What's truely pompous is your arrogance and the assumption on your part that anyone who happens to know what they're talking about (ie, more knowledgable on a particular subject than yourself) must surely be a pompous ass.

This is precisely the only reason someone like you will never become a published author: you think you have all the answers and know-how necessary to succeed in this business. Well, buddy, I've been in it for a LOT longer than you, and, I can assure you, you are very wrong.

But, then again, I'm sure you knew this already, right?

I got a hoot out of this...

"A few Literotica editors are too 'helpful.' For example, one rejected an essay I wrote because he or she thought that the paragraphs were too long. That's an authorial, not an editorial, decision."

Wrong. It depends on the publishing house you go through and what their editors will accept, but, nine times out of ten, if a professional editor suggests you break up the paragraphs, you'd be wise to do it. After all, the object is to get you published and well-read, neither of which will happen, if you don't allow the editor to do their job. They're in a position to know what sells. You're not.

"In other cases, so-called editors have neglected to correct occasional typographical errors that were overlooked during the writer's own proofreading, editing, and revision process."

There isn't a literary editor in the world who will not reject a story like this from an unpublished author. Time is money, in this business, and I don't have time to do what YOU, by your own admission, should have done adequately from the start. Attention to detail counts, and it starts with the AUTHOR.

"Editors should confine themselves to editorial tasks and resist the temptation of being a writer at the author's expense."

This idiotic and wholly amateur statement is enough to convince me that you haven't the first clue, as to the division of labor, when it comes to publishing.

"If they want to write a story, they should write one of their own, not mangle someone else's story."

Of course, if you knew anything about publishing, you'd know that it's the job of the author to pen the story and that of the editor to disentangle it so that it reads smoothly and in such a manner as to entice others to read it.

You knew that, right??

"A good editor is as valuable as he or she is rare."

And, trust me, good writers are even more difficult to scrape together. But, then again, that's only because, like you, they generally think they already have what it takes to succeed. Naturally, they don't, but, for some reason, usually ego-based, they tend to think differently. Hence, they fail.

"The problem is that bad ones abound, especially when their services are voluntary and virtually anyone can sign up to be one."

So, since you obviously know more about this than me, for example, why don't you sign your name up to be a volunteer editor? In fact, I'd gladly put my skills to the test, writing or editing, against yours any time.

Heck, why not just send me a sample of your work? I'll look at it for free; pro bono just for you. Make it 1,000 words or less. And, you have my absolute guarantee, I'll be perfectly fair in my assessment of your work.

email [personal info prohibited per our forum guidelines]

Last edited by MistressLynn : 01-01-2013 at 01:53 PM.
 

Old 03-03-2007, 10:49 AM   #4
LadyCibelle
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Some more great reference

From Snooper this time,

Punctuation standards and the likes

http://www.cogs.susx.ac.uk/doc/punct...00000000000000
http://www.correctpunctuation.co.uk/...-quotation.htm
http://www.uottawa.ca/academic/arts/...ar/qmarks.html
http://www.askoxford.com/asktheexper...onmark?view=uk
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